Sylus
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:14 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:52 pm

zkncj wrote:
Sylus wrote:
Or perhaps TT could take over all those ex VA ATR's in NSN and use them for the same routes. ATR is bigger so probably better to run as a LCC vs Q300 plus they could learn from JQ regional's mistakes. Use already existing Swissport ground crews in the current regional JQ ports plus some new ones (IVC and HLZ). Maybe could even be used to feed some VA trans tas services....


Wonder how well the New Zealand market would respond to the service levels of TT, I know that JQ has probably trained the New Zealand market allot to accept that style (compared to when JQ first entered the market).

On the subject of JQ does anyone know if they are doing the carry-on enforcement over here now? like they do in Australia with two ground staff per flight armed with an EFTPOS machine and set of scales weighting everyones carry-on?


Yes all flights have what's called a CBO ( cabin baggage officer ) on each gate. From what I hear they catch a LOT of people out and make some nice ancillary
 
NZ6
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:42 pm

So where's Shane Jones now?

Does this prove anything to the regions? Maybe that $49 tickets on Q400's just don't cover the operating costs long term!

I think Shane Jones and the regions could be doing more together with Jones money to support higher frequencies and/or larger services which would help improve costs to airlines.... NSN/BHE/PIC for one example. TRG/ROT/WHK another, WAG/PMR/MRO and surrounding towns another... this includes the infrastructure and transport options around it.

They're all around an hour or so from the airport which is a long drive, but if you were to draw a circumference around an airport or new airport location, darken in the circle based on the population within that circumference, you'd see a massive change based on 25mins vs 65mins in those examples.

Zkpilot wrote:
One option I guess would be to actually call in Qantas - Jetconnect (since they will be who operates it) or Qantas -NZ to try to capture both sides of that coin.


Unless they do something to get a decent slice of the corporate group it'll be nothing more than cosmetic changes. As other users have said, it's been done before under both "Qantas" and "Qantas New Zealand". Don't forget we've also had Ansett and Pacific Blue give this a go.

They'd need to really ramp up the frequency of services and bring in things like the Qantas Club to domestic ports and offer a high level of comfort, beer and wine on evening flights etc

The issue is, many corporates will also want to access the regional ports and NZ will entice them to sign an agreement to use them for all travel within NZ and will give them a bunch of benefits for spending X amount each year, meaning QF would already start on the back foot.

777ER wrote:
New Zealand needs a second main operator cause NZ would exploit the profit potential. Thankfully it doesn't sound like the main trunk routes are at risk but then again TT pose a big risk to NZ if JQ/QF withdrawal here..


Given I have family around NZ I agree that competition is good for the consumer and without someone else there NZ could become too greedy and rely on domestic to support other ventures as has happened in the past.

But to put it into the bucket of "main carrier" is personally expecting too much of a country our size both geographically and population-wise.

It's only fair to say NZ is well established with its network and frequency and pretty much owns the core corporate market.

There is absolutely room for someone to come in as a true LCC, I think JQ and more so QF operates in NZ with a model which has too higher operating cost given the segment of the market they're able to get. Running a true LCC on regional routes to smaller cities and towns is almost impossible.

ZK-NBT wrote:
One thing I’d expect with the AA JV is AKl-DFW on AA while QF would downgrade SYD-DFW to a 789, any non SYD pax routed through AKL, so I’d that was the case is there any scope for anything more domestically?


As much as I want QF/AA to open more North America flights from NZ I'd find it hard for that alone to justify any regional flying. QF will be happy to fly WLG/CHC PAX over MEL/SYD/BNE direct into the USA so it's really leaving NPL, NPE feeding it.
 
Sylus
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:14 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:26 pm

NZ6 wrote:
So where's Shane Jones now?

Does this prove anything to the regions? Maybe that $49 tickets on Q400's just don't cover the operating costs long term!

I think Shane Jones and the regions could be doing more together with Jones money to support higher frequencies and/or larger services which would help improve costs to airlines.... NSN/BHE/PIC for one example. TRG/ROT/WHK another, WAG/PMR/MRO and surrounding towns another... this includes the infrastructure and transport options around it.

They're all around an hour or so from the airport which is a long drive, but if you were to draw a circumference around an airport or new airport location, darken in the circle based on the population within that circumference, you'd see a massive change based on 25mins vs 65mins in those examples.

Zkpilot wrote:
One option I guess would be to actually call in Qantas - Jetconnect (since they will be who operates it) or Qantas -NZ to try to capture both sides of that coin.


Unless they do something to get a decent slice of the corporate group it'll be nothing more than cosmetic changes. As other users have said, it's been done before under both "Qantas" and "Qantas New Zealand". Don't forget we've also had Ansett and Pacific Blue give this a go.

They'd need to really ramp up the frequency of services and bring in things like the Qantas Club to domestic ports and offer a high level of comfort, beer and wine on evening flights etc

The issue is, many corporates will also want to access the regional ports and NZ will entice them to sign an agreement to use them for all travel within NZ and will give them a bunch of benefits for spending X amount each year, meaning QF would already start on the back foot.

777ER wrote:
New Zealand needs a second main operator cause NZ would exploit the profit potential. Thankfully it doesn't sound like the main trunk routes are at risk but then again TT pose a big risk to NZ if JQ/QF withdrawal here..


Given I have family around NZ I agree that competition is good for the consumer and without someone else there NZ could become too greedy and rely on domestic to support other ventures as has happened in the past.

But to put it into the bucket of "main carrier" is personally expecting too much of a country our size both geographically and population-wise.

It's only fair to say NZ is well established with its network and frequency and pretty much owns the core corporate market.

There is absolutely room for someone to come in as a true LCC, I think JQ and more so QF operates in NZ with a model which has too higher operating cost given the segment of the market they're able to get. Running a true LCC on regional routes to smaller cities and towns is almost impossible.

ZK-NBT wrote:
One thing I’d expect with the AA JV is AKl-DFW on AA while QF would downgrade SYD-DFW to a 789, any non SYD pax routed through AKL, so I’d that was the case is there any scope for anything more domestically?


As much as I want QF/AA to open more North America flights from NZ I'd find it hard for that alone to justify any regional flying. QF will be happy to fly WLG/CHC PAX over MEL/SYD/BNE direct into the USA so it's really leaving NPL, NPE feeding it.


I think you're spot on. There's no denying there is a segment of the market that a LCC can tap, but the equipment they have chosen on regional routes (Q300) simply isn't designed for LCC use.

My question is: given the nature of JQ's regional operation, why couldn't they just scrap Q300's 2-3 times daily and just run 5-7 times weekly 320's. Surely frequency doesn't have as much bearing on demand than price, plus they're not really going to catch much business traffic anyway.

PMR and NPE already have the runway for A320s along with TRG/IVC/HLZ. All they need is some mods and avsec etc. TT does this to a few places in Australia (limited frequency, lowest price). It would possibly only need 2-3 extra 320s.
AKL-PMR 1 daily
AKL-NPE 1 daily
CHC-IVC 4 weekly
HLZ-CHC/WLG 4 weekly
Maybe some others (DUD-CHC, PMR-CHC)
 
a7ala
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:35 am

Sylus wrote:
My question is: given the nature of JQ's regional operation, why couldn't they just scrap Q300's 2-3 times daily and just run 5-7 times weekly 320's. Surely frequency doesn't have as much bearing on demand than price, plus they're not really going to catch much business traffic anyway.

PMR and NPE already have the runway for A320s along with TRG/IVC/HLZ. All they need is some mods and avsec etc. TT does this to a few places in Australia (limited frequency, lowest price). It would possibly only need 2-3 extra 320s.
AKL-PMR 1 daily
AKL-NPE 1 daily
CHC-IVC 4 weekly
HLZ-CHC/WLG 4 weekly
Maybe some others (DUD-CHC, PMR-CHC)


So are you suggesting JQ should fly 1/day AKL-PMR A320 up against Air NZ's around 9/day they are doing at the moment? So whats stopping Air NZ rescheduling a flight 5 minutes before the JQ daily and discounting to the same level (or lower) and make the money back on the other 8-dailies? Same for all the other routes you have suggested.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6969
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:02 am

Sylus wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
So where's Shane Jones now?

Does this prove anything to the regions? Maybe that $49 tickets on Q400's just don't cover the operating costs long term!

I think Shane Jones and the regions could be doing more together with Jones money to support higher frequencies and/or larger services which would help improve costs to airlines.... NSN/BHE/PIC for one example. TRG/ROT/WHK another, WAG/PMR/MRO and surrounding towns another... this includes the infrastructure and transport options around it.

They're all around an hour or so from the airport which is a long drive, but if you were to draw a circumference around an airport or new airport location, darken in the circle based on the population within that circumference, you'd see a massive change based on 25mins vs 65mins in those examples.

Zkpilot wrote:
One option I guess would be to actually call in Qantas - Jetconnect (since they will be who operates it) or Qantas -NZ to try to capture both sides of that coin.


Unless they do something to get a decent slice of the corporate group it'll be nothing more than cosmetic changes. As other users have said, it's been done before under both "Qantas" and "Qantas New Zealand". Don't forget we've also had Ansett and Pacific Blue give this a go.

They'd need to really ramp up the frequency of services and bring in things like the Qantas Club to domestic ports and offer a high level of comfort, beer and wine on evening flights etc

The issue is, many corporates will also want to access the regional ports and NZ will entice them to sign an agreement to use them for all travel within NZ and will give them a bunch of benefits for spending X amount each year, meaning QF would already start on the back foot.

777ER wrote:
New Zealand needs a second main operator cause NZ would exploit the profit potential. Thankfully it doesn't sound like the main trunk routes are at risk but then again TT pose a big risk to NZ if JQ/QF withdrawal here..


Given I have family around NZ I agree that competition is good for the consumer and without someone else there NZ could become too greedy and rely on domestic to support other ventures as has happened in the past.

But to put it into the bucket of "main carrier" is personally expecting too much of a country our size both geographically and population-wise.

It's only fair to say NZ is well established with its network and frequency and pretty much owns the core corporate market.

There is absolutely room for someone to come in as a true LCC, I think JQ and more so QF operates in NZ with a model which has too higher operating cost given the segment of the market they're able to get. Running a true LCC on regional routes to smaller cities and towns is almost impossible.

ZK-NBT wrote:
One thing I’d expect with the AA JV is AKl-DFW on AA while QF would downgrade SYD-DFW to a 789, any non SYD pax routed through AKL, so I’d that was the case is there any scope for anything more domestically?


As much as I want QF/AA to open more North America flights from NZ I'd find it hard for that alone to justify any regional flying. QF will be happy to fly WLG/CHC PAX over MEL/SYD/BNE direct into the USA so it's really leaving NPL, NPE feeding it.


I think you're spot on. There's no denying there is a segment of the market that a LCC can tap, but the equipment they have chosen on regional routes (Q300) simply isn't designed for LCC use.

My question is: given the nature of JQ's regional operation, why couldn't they just scrap Q300's 2-3 times daily and just run 5-7 times weekly 320's. Surely frequency doesn't have as much bearing on demand than price, plus they're not really going to catch much business traffic anyway.

PMR and NPE already have the runway for A320s along with TRG/IVC/HLZ. All they need is some mods and avsec etc. TT does this to a few places in Australia (limited frequency, lowest price). It would possibly only need 2-3 extra 320s.
AKL-PMR 1 daily
AKL-NPE 1 daily
CHC-IVC 4 weekly
HLZ-CHC/WLG 4 weekly
Maybe some others (DUD-CHC, PMR-CHC)


Surely these are routes that need a bit of frequency though? 1 daily JQ A320 vs NZ 8-10 daily ATRs.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3259
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:05 am

NZ6 wrote:

They'd need to really ramp up the frequency of services and bring in things like the Qantas Club to domestic ports and offer a high level of comfort, beer and wine on evening flights etc


https://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2010/09/qantas-new-zealand-took-off-10-years.html

According to this Qantas New Zealand timetable from 2000 - There was Qantas Lounges in:

AKL
CHC
DUD
HLZ
IVC
ZQN
PMR
ROT
WLG

Which was pretty impressive for an small operation - NZ still doesn't have an lounge in ROT yet.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6969
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:12 am

NZ6 wrote:
So where's Shane Jones now?

Does this prove anything to the regions? Maybe that $49 tickets on Q400's just don't cover the operating costs long term!

I think Shane Jones and the regions could be doing more together with Jones money to support higher frequencies and/or larger services which would help improve costs to airlines.... NSN/BHE/PIC for one example. TRG/ROT/WHK another, WAG/PMR/MRO and surrounding towns another... this includes the infrastructure and transport options around it.

They're all around an hour or so from the airport which is a long drive, but if you were to draw a circumference around an airport or new airport location, darken in the circle based on the population within that circumference, you'd see a massive change based on 25mins vs 65mins in those examples.

Zkpilot wrote:
One option I guess would be to actually call in Qantas - Jetconnect (since they will be who operates it) or Qantas -NZ to try to capture both sides of that coin.


Unless they do something to get a decent slice of the corporate group it'll be nothing more than cosmetic changes. As other users have said, it's been done before under both "Qantas" and "Qantas New Zealand". Don't forget we've also had Ansett and Pacific Blue give this a go.

They'd need to really ramp up the frequency of services and bring in things like the Qantas Club to domestic ports and offer a high level of comfort, beer and wine on evening flights etc

The issue is, many corporates will also want to access the regional ports and NZ will entice them to sign an agreement to use them for all travel within NZ and will give them a bunch of benefits for spending X amount each year, meaning QF would already start on the back foot.

777ER wrote:
New Zealand needs a second main operator cause NZ would exploit the profit potential. Thankfully it doesn't sound like the main trunk routes are at risk but then again TT pose a big risk to NZ if JQ/QF withdrawal here..


Given I have family around NZ I agree that competition is good for the consumer and without someone else there NZ could become too greedy and rely on domestic to support other ventures as has happened in the past.

But to put it into the bucket of "main carrier" is personally expecting too much of a country our size both geographically and population-wise.

It's only fair to say NZ is well established with its network and frequency and pretty much owns the core corporate market.

There is absolutely room for someone to come in as a true LCC, I think JQ and more so QF operates in NZ with a model which has too higher operating cost given the segment of the market they're able to get. Running a true LCC on regional routes to smaller cities and towns is almost impossible.

ZK-NBT wrote:
One thing I’d expect with the AA JV is AKl-DFW on AA while QF would downgrade SYD-DFW to a 789, any non SYD pax routed through AKL, so I’d that was the case is there any scope for anything more domestically?


As much as I want QF/AA to open more North America flights from NZ I'd find it hard for that alone to justify any regional flying. QF will be happy to fly WLG/CHC PAX over MEL/SYD/BNE direct into the USA so it's really leaving NPL, NPE feeding it.



The reality is I think the NZ market is small, I’m just wondering how AA would feed an AKL-DFW flight, NZ have so much feed Tasman, Pacific, Domestic into the likes of IAH/EZE/ORD, how would AA do? There has certainly been talk that’s QF will send 789s to DFW ex SYD, BNE seems unlikely with ORD/SFO starting and MEL is to far needs project sunrise. I couldn’t see 2 789s ex SYD even though Alan Joyce said 2 789s would be cheaper to to run than 1 A380. In just curious as to where AA will get enough traffic?
 
zkncj
Posts: 3259
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:15 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Surely these are routes that need a bit of frequency though? 1 daily JQ A320 vs NZ 8-10 daily ATRs.


If you look at Australia and towns that are similar to NPE they only get 1-2x daily services from someone like JQ which seems todo ok.

Maybe the F100's would be better off with JQ doing an twice daily service on routes like AKL-NPE, AKL-NSN etc.

I would hate to know what the yield is like on some JQ Regional flights, when often you can still purchase tickets an few days out for under $100s.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6969
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:21 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Surely these are routes that need a bit of frequency though? 1 daily JQ A320 vs NZ 8-10 daily ATRs.


If you look at Australia and towns that are similar to NPE they only get 1-2x daily services from someone like JQ which seems todo ok.

Maybe the F100's would be better off with JQ doing an twice daily service on routes like AKL-NPE, AKL-NSN etc.

I would hate to know what the yield is like on some JQ Regional flights, when often you can still purchase tickets an few days out for under $100s.


Do those routes in Australia have competition? It’s fine if they don’t to have 1 or 2airlines offer 1-2 daily A320/738 each.

The thing is NZ have 8-10 ATR’s a day in some routes, how is JQ going to compete with 1 A320? Or realistically why aren’t they making money with 3-4 daily Q300’s?

How efficient are those F100s? And how old?
 
Sylus
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:14 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:31 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Surely these are routes that need a bit of frequency though? 1 daily JQ A320 vs NZ 8-10 daily ATRs.


If you look at Australia and towns that are similar to NPE they only get 1-2x daily services from someone like JQ which seems todo ok.

Maybe the F100's would be better off with JQ doing an twice daily service on routes like AKL-NPE, AKL-NSN etc.

I would hate to know what the yield is like on some JQ Regional flights, when often you can still purchase tickets an few days out for under $100s.


Do those routes in Australia have competition? It’s fine if they don’t to have 1 or 2airlines offer 1-2 daily A320/738 each.

The thing is NZ have 8-10 ATR’s a day in some routes, how is JQ going to compete with 1 A320? Or realistically why aren’t they making money with 3-4 daily Q300’s?

How efficient are those F100s? And how old?


Well they seem to compete on CHC-WLG with an A320 1-2 per day vs NZ's like 12 services. Same concept
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6969
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:59 am

Sylus wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:

If you look at Australia and towns that are similar to NPE they only get 1-2x daily services from someone like JQ which seems todo ok.

Maybe the F100's would be better off with JQ doing an twice daily service on routes like AKL-NPE, AKL-NSN etc.

I would hate to know what the yield is like on some JQ Regional flights, when often you can still purchase tickets an few days out for under $100s.


Do those routes in Australia have competition? It’s fine if they don’t to have 1 or 2airlines offer 1-2 daily A320/738 each.

The thing is NZ have 8-10 ATR’s a day in some routes, how is JQ going to compete with 1 A320? Or realistically why aren’t they making money with 3-4 daily Q300’s?

How efficient are those F100s? And how old?


Well they seem to compete on CHC-WLG with an A320 1-2 per day vs NZ's like 12 services. Same concept


Is compete the right word? I think NZ have 18-20 flights all ATR except 2-3 A320s. How competitive are JQ? maybe 6-8 Q300s would be better?
 
zkncj
Posts: 3259
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:29 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Do those routes in Australia have competition? It’s fine if they don’t to have 1 or 2airlines offer 1-2 daily A320/738 each.

The thing is NZ have 8-10 ATR’s a day in some routes, how is JQ going to compete with 1 A320? Or realistically why aren’t they making money with 3-4 daily Q300’s?


Take SYD-BNK and AKL-NPE (Mid-Week April 2020)

SYD-BNK
JQ 3x A320 (180*3 = 540 seats)
VA 1x 738 (176 seats)

Daily 714 seats

AKL-NPE/b]
JQ 4x A320 (50*3 = 200 seats)
NZ 10x 72-600 (10*68 =680 seats)
NZ 1z Q300 (50 Seats)

[b]Daily 930 seats



With the leisure travers price is going to be an bigger decided than flexibility of time, if you provided an AM / PM A320 service at the right price you should be able to fill it.

The problem will come is when NZ use its normal tactics, dropping fares to prices below cost e.g. you can't say NZ makes any money on its $43 Seat Only fares on this route.
 
PA515
Posts: 1541
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:42 am

ZK-OAB as NZ699, Air NZ's first scheduled AKL-IVC nonstop, is presently half way into the journey and following the same track as NZ627 AKL-ZQN.

https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ699/21d56935

PA515
 
PA515
Posts: 1541
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:07 am

NZ6 wrote:
So where's Shane Jones now?


Apparently on NZ699 with Chris Luxon. Awkward meeting prior to the flight.

The Ruff-up in Bluff
https://nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article. ... d=12261768

PA515
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2649
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:12 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Do those routes in Australia have competition? It’s fine if they don’t to have 1 or 2airlines offer 1-2 daily A320/738 each.

The thing is NZ have 8-10 ATR’s a day in some routes, how is JQ going to compete with 1 A320? Or realistically why aren’t they making money with 3-4 daily Q300’s?


Take SYD-BNK and AKL-NPE (Mid-Week April 2020)

SYD-BNK
JQ 3x A320 (180*3 = 540 seats)
VA 1x 738 (176 seats)

Daily 714 seats

AKL-NPE/b]
JQ 4x A320 (50*3 = 200 seats)
NZ 10x 72-600 (10*68 =680 seats)
NZ 1z Q300 (50 Seats)

[b]Daily 930 seats



With the leisure travers price is going to be an bigger decided than flexibility of time, if you provided an AM / PM A320 service at the right price you should be able to fill it.

The problem will come is when NZ use its normal tactics, dropping fares to prices below cost e.g. you can't say NZ makes any money on its $43 Seat Only fares on this route.


I think this a model with some potential. NZ can go for the corporates with frequency while JQ targets leisure. Primary candidates would be AKL-NSN/PMR/NPR and HLZ-WLG/CHC. And they could be flown off peak to bolster utilisation. It would be an interesting experiment and might spur actual growth rather than fight over the existing pie.
 
NZAA
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:49 am

777ER wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
777ER wrote:
Source for this rumour?

"Speculation is swirling that Jetstar may stop regional services, including Hawke's Bay, after it was revealed the carrier is making a loss on provincial services."

So no confirmation - just speculation and rumour, at this stage.

See: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-t ... d=12261201.

Cheers,

C.

Thank you. Just as I suspected - a rumour and nothing confirmed.


Im hearing that the PropStar operation is possibly breaching Australian Civil Aviation Rules. After all, arent Australian Registered Turboprops required to have security screening??
 
NZ6
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:00 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

They'd need to really ramp up the frequency of services and bring in things like the Qantas Club to domestic ports and offer a high level of comfort, beer and wine on evening flights etc


https://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2010/09/qantas-new-zealand-took-off-10-years.html

According to this Qantas New Zealand timetable from 2000 - There was Qantas Lounges in:

AKL
CHC
DUD
HLZ
IVC
ZQN
PMR
ROT
WLG

Which was pretty impressive for an small operation - NZ still doesn't have an lounge in ROT yet.


That sounds about right, I believe they simply used the old Golden Wing lounges from Ansett? I could be wrong but that's what I recall.

Either way, two things spring to mind.
a) It either didn't work then or they didn't go at it hard enough and/or for long enough for it to work.
b) that's some time ago, is the space still there and although very unlikely, if it was it would at a minimum need a complete strip-down and redo on the inside which would come at considerable expense.

Is New Zealand's domestic corporate travel market big enough for two full-service carriers? (full-service meaning lounges, points, tiers, contracts etc - not just meals). The answer is no. Given NZ pretty much owns that market now, we're left with two options

a) Someone with long term ambitions and a bottomless pit of money needs to undercut NZ long term and offer an equal or superior service. I think we've seen QF play with this idea in the past but hasn't wanted to commit the money required.
b) The second carrier needs to follow a similar path to that of VA in Australia, get some market-share via being an LCC turn a profit and look to expand and grow from there.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:04 pm

PA515 wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
So where's Shane Jones now?


Apparently on NZ699 with Chris Luxon. Awkward meeting prior to the flight.

The Ruff-up in Bluff
https://nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article. ... d=12261768

PA515


Haha, I didn't mean literally but I did hear it on the radio.

It just irks me that he's been so critical of the airlines to do more when he should be focusing on creating the industries/employment/tourism etc in the regions which would then generate the demand for larger aircraft. Then the airlines would come...

It's almost like he's wanted the cart before the horse.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1152
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:02 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Take SYD-BNK and AKL-NPE (Mid-Week April 2020)

SYD-BNK
JQ 3x A320 (180*3 = 540 seats)
VA 1x 738 (176 seats)

Daily 714 seats

AKL-NPE/b]
JQ 4x A320 (50*3 = 200 seats)
NZ 10x 72-600 (10*68 =680 seats)
NZ 1z Q300 (50 Seats)

[b]Daily 930 seats



With the leisure travers price is going to be an bigger decided than flexibility of time, if you provided an AM / PM A320 service at the right price you should be able to fill it.

The problem will come is when NZ use its normal tactics, dropping fares to prices below cost e.g. you can't say NZ makes any money on its $43 Seat Only fares on this route.


I think this a model with some potential. NZ can go for the corporates with frequency while JQ targets leisure. Primary candidates would be AKL-NSN/PMR/NPR and HLZ-WLG/CHC. And they could be flown off peak to bolster utilisation. It would be an interesting experiment and might spur actual growth rather than fight over the existing pie.


The issue is NZ wants and needs leisure as much as JQ or any other secondary carrier does.

If the second carrier - let's just call it JQ, was to put an A320 into NPL, NPE, PMR or NSN. NZ has the size and scale to match that as someone else mentioned. Given both carriers will more than likely now be over-serving the port, seats will be sent empty. NZ could price all seats at a flat at $39, for example, absorb the cost and drive JQ to undercut them meaning the route is severely unprofitable for them.

It then comes down to which airline accepts the loss for longer or who files a court action for anti-competitive behaviour first.

If an LCC came in, they would need to have operating costs so incredibly low they can essentially take on NZ in a price war without hemorrhaging money left, right and centre. The issue is, they'd use the same primary airports with high costs as New Zealand isn't flooded with secondary airports with lower costs. I mean, we're not going to see an A320 in Dairy Flat or Ardmore anytime soon are we, same applies for the Kapiti Coast.

I also wonder if the New Zealand public will accept an LCC with online check-in only, no toll-free number for help, strict and non-negotiable check-in/boarding and baggage rules, no recognition or perks, no actual service as such. Remember there was an outcry when JQ came in and they weren't as bad as other LCC around the world.
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:45 pm

NZAA wrote:
777ER wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
"Speculation is swirling that Jetstar may stop regional services, including Hawke's Bay, after it was revealed the carrier is making a loss on provincial services."

So no confirmation - just speculation and rumour, at this stage.

See: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-t ... d=12261201.

Cheers,

C.

Thank you. Just as I suspected - a rumour and nothing confirmed.


Im hearing that the PropStar operation is possibly breaching Australian Civil Aviation Rules. After all, arent Australian Registered Turboprops required to have security screening??

How would Aussie rules affect New Zealand ops? Two different Aviation rules. They operate under CAA rules here, just like Toll's ZK registered aircraft operate under Auatralian laws.

If the flight continued onto Australia then yes it would receive screening
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jimmyah
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:02 am

With NZ's launch of AKL-IVC, I tried to think of the last domestic route NZ added, does anyone know?
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:17 am

Does the New Zealand domestic market need better regulation?

It seems that NZ is able to get away with an lot that it shouldn’t be able to, for example of the Regional Routes that JQ started NZ increased capacity extremely and reduced prices (some of which are at an loss).

Is it time that we get some regulations to protect the smaller players? Could awesome certainly say if JQ was to exit the regions NZ’s prices would go back up.
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:17 am

jimmyah wrote:
With NZ's launch of AKL-IVC, I tried to think of the last domestic route NZ added, does anyone know?

Either AKL-Masterton with the 1900D or AKL-PPQ with the Q300. Pretty certain it was AKL-PPQ.
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Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
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Unclekoru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:19 am

jimmyah wrote:
With NZ's launch of AKL-IVC, I tried to think of the last domestic route NZ added, does anyone know?


Good question. Was it MRO-AKL?
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
Unclekoru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:20 am

777ER wrote:
jimmyah wrote:
With NZ's launch of AKL-IVC, I tried to think of the last domestic route NZ added, does anyone know?

Either AKL-Masterton with the 1900D or AKL-PPQ with the Q300. Pretty certain it was AKL-PPQ.


Maybe CHC-PPQ then?
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:24 am

Unclekoru wrote:
777ER wrote:
jimmyah wrote:
With NZ's launch of AKL-IVC, I tried to think of the last domestic route NZ added, does anyone know?

Either AKL-Masterton with the 1900D or AKL-PPQ with the Q300. Pretty certain it was AKL-PPQ.


Maybe CHC-PPQ then?

Totally forgot about PPQ-CHC! Yes PPQ-CHC was the last domestic route that wasn't launched as a trial/seasonal
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Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
Unclekoru
Posts: 302
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:28 am

777ER wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:
777ER wrote:
Either AKL-Masterton with the 1900D or AKL-PPQ with the Q300. Pretty certain it was AKL-PPQ.


Maybe CHC-PPQ then?

Totally forgot about PPQ-CHC! Yes PPQ-CHC was the last domestic route that wasn't launched as a trial/seasonal


I hadn't thought about it either until I saw your post, easy to forget about that one.
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
777ER
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:00 am

Unclekoru wrote:
777ER wrote:
Unclekoru wrote:

Maybe CHC-PPQ then?

Totally forgot about PPQ-CHC! Yes PPQ-CHC was the last domestic route that wasn't launched as a trial/seasonal


I hadn't thought about it either until I saw your post, easy to forget about that one.

CHC-PPQ-CHC operated between November 2013 - February 2016 when another AKL-PPQ-AKL frequency was added instead
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Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
Polo5959
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:11 am

I do think there is space for a second regional operator in NZ.

I can see JQ having 2 options.
A) Drop NPL-AKL (they have one daily flight most days and they continually sell tickets for $29 days out from departure). They could either use this plane to run NPE-WLG, PMR-CHC or NSN-CHC or send the plane back to Aussie.

B) Drop all regional routes and stick to Jet operations. The only routes I see potentially jet viable is PMR-AKL, HLZ-WLG and CHC-ZQN.

If they do drop regional routes completely this does beg the question if VA will have a crack. I don’t think they will.

An idea would be they could run NPE, PMR, NSN, TRG ex AKL flights feeding Tasman ops using the ATRs parked at NSN....
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:32 am

If they do drop regional routes completely this does beg the question if VA will have a crack. I don’t think they will. ....


Wonder how much the rights would be to use the Virgin New Zealand name (surely wouldn’t be cheap).
 
jimmyah
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:26 am

Polo5959 wrote:
I do think there is space for a second regional operator in NZ.

I can see JQ having 2 options.
A) Drop NPL-AKL (they have one daily flight most days and they continually sell tickets for $29 days out from departure). They could either use this plane to run NPE-WLG, PMR-CHC or NSN-CHC or send the plane back to Aussie.

B) Drop all regional routes and stick to Jet operations. The only routes I see potentially jet viable is PMR-AKL, HLZ-WLG and CHC-ZQN.

If they do drop regional routes completely this does beg the question if VA will have a crack. I don’t think they will.

An idea would be they could run NPE, PMR, NSN, TRG ex AKL flights feeding Tasman ops using the ATRs parked at NSN....


I would think AKL-BHE would be in the scope as well. There are some gaps in departure times from NZ, and the aircraft could possibly carry on to CHC and give Sounds Air a run for its money.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:51 am

jimmyah wrote:

I would think AKL-BHE would be in the scope as well. There are some gaps in departure times from NZ, and the aircraft could possibly carry on to CHC and give Sounds Air a run for its money.


An AKL-BHE-CHC-BHE-AKL service could well suited to 3C, not going after the super cheap market but more the market that is willing to pay $89-99 for an lead in fare.
 
cabbage0102
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:02 am

Do any of you know why TF-BBF is in AKL?
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:18 am

777ER wrote:
jimmyah wrote:
With NZ's launch of AKL-IVC, I tried to think of the last domestic route NZ added, does anyone know?

Either AKL-Masterton with the 1900D or AKL-PPQ with the Q300. Pretty certain it was AKL-PPQ.

What about the short-lived HLZ-NSN?

And more interesting still, what will be the NEXT domestic route NZ operates? Most of the obvious flights to and from AKL, WLG and CHC are already operated, but what about these:

WLG-WRE (again)
PMR-DUD
CHC-GIS
HLZ-NSN (again)
HLZ-ZQN
HLZ-DUD

I think we may be waiting a while for any of these. Having said that, I didn’t think AKL-IVC would be a starter but according to Luxon it’s already in the “permanent” network and no longer a trial. So I’m not confident in my own judgement here . . .
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:21 am

zkncj wrote:
Does the New Zealand domestic market need better regulation?

It seems that NZ is able to get away with an lot that it shouldn’t be able to, for example of the Regional Routes that JQ started NZ increased capacity extremely and reduced prices (some of which are at an loss).

Is it time that we get some regulations to protect the smaller players? Could awesome certainly say if JQ was to exit the regions NZ’s prices would go back up.

This is a seriously slippery slope. Price controls, restraints on competition etc. Hmmm, not at all sure we want to go there.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:57 am

I agree, I don’t agree with controlling the competition, the problem here in NZ is that the market is to small to sustain more than 1 major carrier that can actually make any serious money, NZ is the incumbent here and I personally don’t think it’s right to penalise them so another carrier can have a go so to speak.

JQ can keep NZ honest on some of the routes they operate, weather they make any money doing it is probably partly up to how aggressive they want to be in the market and what kind of service/frequency/competition they are trying to offer.
 
jimmyah
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:12 am

zkncj wrote:
jimmyah wrote:

I would think AKL-BHE would be in the scope as well. There are some gaps in departure times from NZ, and the aircraft could possibly carry on to CHC and give Sounds Air a run for its money.


An AKL-BHE-CHC-BHE-AKL service could well suited to 3C, not going after the super cheap market but more the market that is willing to pay $89-99 for an lead in fare.


The best option would be for Sounds Air to get a larger aircraft, I know of many people who refuse to fly on the small single-engine aircraft, even though we all know they are as safe.
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:30 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Surely these are routes that need a bit of frequency though? 1 daily JQ A320 vs NZ 8-10 daily ATRs.


If you look at Australia and towns that are similar to NPE they only get 1-2x daily services from someone like JQ which seems todo ok.

Maybe the F100's would be better off with JQ doing an twice daily service on routes like AKL-NPE, AKL-NSN etc.

I would hate to know what the yield is like on some JQ Regional flights, when often you can still purchase tickets an few days out for under $100s.


Do those routes in Australia have competition? It’s fine if they don’t to have 1 or 2airlines offer 1-2 daily A320/738 each.

The thing is NZ have 8-10 ATR’s a day in some routes, how is JQ going to compete with 1 A320? Or realistically why aren’t they making money with 3-4 daily Q300’s?

How efficient are those F100s? And how old?


I would not use F100's and efficient in the same sentence. The fuel burn of the F100 is similar to a 320/738 and therefore it is better to use the bigger aircraft as it would bring per seat costs down. For example VA runs PER-ADL with VARA F100 and A320 along with mainline 738's, the fuel burn between the F100 and the 320/738 is normally within around 200kg. On shorter runs fuel burn between the 2 is pretty much the same. The F100 is also maintenance intensive as well which increases costs as well
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aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:36 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
I agree, I don’t agree with controlling the competition, the problem here in NZ is that the market is to small to sustain more than 1 major carrier that can actually make any serious money, NZ is the incumbent here and I personally don’t think it’s right to penalise them so another carrier can have a go so to speak.

JQ can keep NZ honest on some of the routes they operate, weather they make any money doing it is probably partly up to how aggressive they want to be in the market and what kind of service/frequency/competition they are trying to offer.


See, I see that as an opening for an alternative model. No point competing with NZ on its bread and butter in the regions, ie. frequent prop services.

So why not utilise existing assets during off peak to target leisure travellers who are more price sensitive/less time sensitive anyway? It might actually spur growth. If I'm sending the kids to visit Nanna in Nelson, it doesn't really bother me to put them on an 11am flight and pick them up a week later at 2pm.

If NZ is so dominant that it is now stifling both growth and innovation, as NZ6 implies, then yeah I think competition authorities should be looking into things. The whole arrangement with Qantas suggests a stitch up on domestic that should at least raise eyebrows. Yes yes Qantas isn't JQ, but NZ hooking up with the parent of their only domestic carrier? Come on.
 
jimmyah
Posts: 50
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:20 am

DavidByrne wrote:
777ER wrote:
jimmyah wrote:
With NZ's launch of AKL-IVC, I tried to think of the last domestic route NZ added, does anyone know?

Either AKL-Masterton with the 1900D or AKL-PPQ with the Q300. Pretty certain it was AKL-PPQ.

What about the short-lived HLZ-NSN?

And more interesting still, what will be the NEXT domestic route NZ operates? Most of the obvious flights to and from AKL, WLG and CHC are already operated, but what about these:

WLG-WRE (again)
PMR-DUD
CHC-GIS
HLZ-NSN (again)
HLZ-ZQN
HLZ-DUD

I think we may be waiting a while for any of these. Having said that, I didn’t think AKL-IVC would be a starter but according to Luxon it’s already in the “permanent” network and no longer a trial. So I’m not confident in my own judgement here . . .


Maybe some new HLM or ZQN destinations?
 
tom90
Posts: 6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:38 am

Hey a question re the new flight times on NZ between AKL and IVC, I note that the flight leaves at 19:35 hours which is 30 mins after the 19:05 hours cut off for Koru Hour during weekdays. Surely on a 2 hour domestic flight NZ would reconsider this? That is quite a long flight to survive on a cookie and a hot drink / water. Yes I know the carries in USA stretch things a lot longer but hey, we are not the USA.
Anybody know if NZ are planning on more than a "cookie and water" for these flights? I guess ZQN and DUD are pretty similar so they could argue what's the difference...? Just my thoughts and questions.
I noticed the inaugural flight from AKL had plenty to offer on board!!
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:32 am

DavidByrne wrote:
And more interesting still, what will be the NEXT domestic route NZ operates?

Auckland - Wanaka, from the mid-2020's?

Cheers,

C.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:18 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
And more interesting still, what will be the NEXT domestic route NZ operates?

Auckland - Wanaka, from the mid-2020's?

Cheers,

C.

Yes, I just thought of AKL-WKA too - it’s already been signalled. Also, I’d have thought ROT-ZQN would have been operated by now. After all, Mount Cook operated ROT-MON-ZQN for many years before MON.was dropped from the network.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
AviatorNZ
Posts: 8
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:29 pm

tom90 wrote:
Hey a question re the new flight times on NZ between AKL and IVC, I note that the flight leaves at 19:35 hours which is 30 mins after the 19:05 hours cut off for Koru Hour during weekdays. Surely on a 2 hour domestic flight NZ would reconsider this? That is quite a long flight to survive on a cookie and a hot drink / water. Yes I know the carries in USA stretch things a lot longer but hey, we are not the USA.
Anybody know if NZ are planning on more than a "cookie and water" for these flights? I guess ZQN and DUD are pretty similar so they could argue what's the difference...? Just my thoughts and questions.
I noticed the inaugural flight from AKL had plenty to offer on board!!


It should technically be offered on NZ698 IVC-AKL but it isn't.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1152
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:54 pm

zkncj wrote:
Does the New Zealand domestic market need better regulation?

It seems that NZ is able to get away with an lot that it shouldn’t be able to, for example of the Regional Routes that JQ started NZ increased capacity extremely and reduced prices (some of which are at an loss).

Is it time that we get some regulations to protect the smaller players? Could awesome certainly say if JQ was to exit the regions NZ’s prices would go back up.


Careful what you wish for.

What if that leads to higher fares or reduced frequency? Is there any certainty JQ or any other operator will have success? It may even make it harder for them.
 
x1234
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:03 pm

Jon NYC is tweeting the rumours of the possibility of LAX-CHC: https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1165744337734516736
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:19 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
I agree, I don’t agree with controlling the competition, the problem here in NZ is that the market is to small to sustain more than 1 major carrier that can actually make any serious money, NZ is the incumbent here and I personally don’t think it’s right to penalise them so another carrier can have a go so to speak.

JQ can keep NZ honest on some of the routes they operate, weather they make any money doing it is probably partly up to how aggressive they want to be in the market and what kind of service/frequency/competition they are trying to offer.


You're correct if we emphasise the word major.

AKL, WLG, CHC and ZQN are large enough centres to support a secondary no-frills carrier like JQ. But it's not easy and as I've said earlier you need to run a tight ship, have deep pockets and keep costs down. In addition to JQ we've seen...
- Qantas
- Qantas New Zealand
- Virgin Australia (under Pacific Blue titles)
- Ansett New Zealand
- Origin Pacific
- Kiwi Regional Airlines

These are carriers within the last 2 decades who have come and gone...

As for the regions...

It's simply too costly to operate/compete in the smaller markets. Planes aren't cheap to buy or maintain, there's not an endless supply of qualified and experienced pilots so they're not cheap, aviation fuel isn't cheap, airports aren't cheap... it all adds up to a high operating cost split over a fairly small passenger and freight load.

Personally, I don't see JQ staying in the regional market forever (never have). It's down to Qantas how long they're happy to sit in the market and not make money or lose money. I don't even know if they're serious about turning a profit or just trying to disrupt NZ or gain 'loyalty' from Kiwis by making the regions more affordable so to speak.


aerokiwi wrote:
See, I see that as an opening for an alternative model. No point competing with NZ on its bread and butter in the regions, ie. frequent prop services.

So why not utilise existing assets during off peak to target leisure travellers who are more price sensitive/less time sensitive anyway? It might actually spur growth. If I'm sending the kids to visit Nanna in Nelson, it doesn't really bother me to put them on an 11am flight and pick them up a week later at 2pm.

If NZ is so dominant that it is now stifling both growth and innovation, as NZ6 implies, then yeah I think competition authorities should be looking into things. The whole arrangement with Qantas suggests a stitch up on domestic that should at least raise eyebrows. Yes yes Qantas isn't JQ, but NZ hooking up with the parent of their only domestic carrier? Come on.


I'm not sure what the alternative model is? NZ has peak morning and evening covered, looking at NSN there are direct flights from CHC, WLG and AKL. There are mid-morning/afternoon flights. They have lounges in NSN and at each point from there... There are early evening flights.

I'm not trying to be pro NZ here... I just don't see what an alternative model is.

Looking AKL-NSN next week, JQ is cheaper than NZ by about $50 or more, all options show 1-2 seats except 1 flight which shows 4.

The NZ flights aren't full but all look acceptable a week out. I can't see JQ, they could be empty or could be near full but still trying to undercut NZ.

Either way, this is just a single scenario which you can't focus too much on as it's an entire network over an extended period which isn't profitable not just a handful of flights across a couple of days.
 
NPL8800
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:33 pm

Speaking of other recent domestic launches, there was the short lived one season CHC-MON-ZQN x3/weekly in 2012/13
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:47 pm

NPL8800 wrote:
Speaking of other recent domestic launches, there was the short lived one season CHC-MON-ZQN x3/weekly in 2012/13

Does anyone remember when HLZ-NSN was operated?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
axio
Posts: 258
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2019

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:47 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Does anyone remember when HLZ-NSN was operated?

Not sure when it started, but like PMR-NSN, it ended with the GFC in 2008.
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