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b777900
Posts: 363
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:18 pm

UA857 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Delta could return to HKG with an uncovered destination like DTW or MSP.

They've done HKG-DTW and dumped it.

DTW-HKG be relaunched with A350s

I Heard the new HKG route if any would be JFK and would be flown on the 330 neo not the 350.
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b777900
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:22 pm

WILL DL change from 767 to 330neo on the ICN - MNL route?
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GSP psgr
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:23 pm

I once floated running something like LAX-HKG-SIN and return as one giant loss leader flight for Delta, as a way to have both destinations in their route network for corporate contracts. I have to think that their upcoming India return isn't going to be highly profitable either.
 
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b777900
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:28 pm

UA857 wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Crazy to see the NRT hub go away. It's just kind of strange to me. NW didn't own the airport, but they had a really strong presence. My stepdad was a regular on JFK-NRT and connecting onward. It was kind of the last piece of NW that DL held on to until recent years.

I'm really shocked to see SIN and HKG gone from the route map though. It's pretty amazing to me that an airline with such a strong domestic network really can't make two of the biggest business destinations in Asia work. I get they love the JVs, but there is something to be said about flying on your own metal. I have friends and coworkers who are loyal DL flyers who barely touch DL planes when they go overseas. I guess that old line that Delta is afraid of big planes really has something to it...


Delta could return to HKG with an uncovered destination like DTW or MSP.


DL already said JFK to HKG if it all it ever happens but DL could do ATL-HKG on the 359 since no one has that route. That would make more sense.
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jbs2886
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:01 am

b777900 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:

They've done HKG-DTW and dumped it.

DTW-HKG be relaunched with A350s

I Heard the new HKG route if any would be JFK and would be flown on the 330 neo not the 350.


Well, you heard wrong because there it is HIGHLY unlikely a 330neo can make JFK-HKG. That route is 7,014 nm and the range is 7,200 nm. In a DL configuration and building in sufficient leeway, makes it not feasible.
 
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TransWorldOne
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:02 am

b777900 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:

They've done HKG-DTW and dumped it.

DTW-HKG be relaunched with A350s

I Heard the new HKG route if any would be JFK and would be flown on the 330 neo not the 350.


The 330neo doesn't have any where near enough range to profitability operate JFK-HKG. Delta closed the HKG station less than one year ago. There's no way it's coming back any time soon.
 
FSDan
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:06 am

b777900 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:

They've done HKG-DTW and dumped it.

DTW-HKG be relaunched with A350s

I Heard the new HKG route if any would be JFK and would be flown on the 330 neo not the 350.


While I agree that JFK-HKG would probably be the best bet if DL wanted to get back into HKG, I'm 90% sure the 339 doesn't have the range. I'd expect it to be a 77L route if it came to pass.
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questions
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:48 am

Why would DL want to fly JFK-HKG? What’s the business case to support it?
 
FSDan
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:40 am

questions wrote:
Why would DL want to fly JFK-HKG? What’s the business case to support it?


DL has been very public about wanting to be the preferred carrier for New Yorkers. NYC-HKG is a major route for the Finance industry, which is obviously one of the most important segments of the New York economy. Hence, there are many potential DL customers and corporate clients who care whether or not DL flies this route.

Of course, whether there is a serious business case for DL remains to be seen - they haven't announced the route up to this point, but I'd be very surprised if they weren't taking a good hard look at it. And, while I don't have access to the data DL would use to evaluate these routes, I would expect the business case for JFK-HKG to be at least as strong as the business case for SEA-HKG or DTW-HKG based on the O&D traffic.
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J343
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:23 am

FSDan wrote:
questions wrote:
Why would DL want to fly JFK-HKG? What’s the business case to support it?


DL has been very public about wanting to be the preferred carrier for New Yorkers. NYC-HKG is a major route for the Finance industry, which is obviously one of the most important segments of the New York economy. Hence, there are many potential DL customers and corporate clients who care whether or not DL flies this route.

Of course, whether there is a serious business case for DL remains to be seen - they haven't announced the route up to this point, but I'd be very surprised if they weren't taking a good hard look at it. And, while I don't have access to the data DL would use to evaluate these routes, I would expect the business case for JFK-HKG to be at least as strong as the business case for SEA-HKG or DTW-HKG based on the O&D traffic.


There may be a strong business case but can DL compete with CX's 3x daily HKG-JFK and 1x daily HKG-YVR-JFK and 1x daily HKG-EWR in addition to UA's daily EWR-HKG?
 
J343
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:30 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
HeeseokKoo wrote:
J343 wrote:
KE unable to get more slots at MNL? .

Bilateral doesn’t allow additional seat capacity. Korea and Philippines agreed on a seat count which has been maxed out. Therefore KE cannot upgauge either.


Not exactly. ROK and PHL agreed to a "pocket open skies policy" wherein, for airports other than MNL, there are no capacity limits. And the main reason for the seat count is due to a lack of capacity at MNL and inability to expand; otherwise, the limit would have been raised or even eliminated by now.

J343 wrote:
KE unable to get more slots at MNL? If EK and QR can get additional frequencies to MNL, why can't KE? I'm pretty sure KE served MNL before QR and EK did. If that's the case then perhaps they should send their B748i instead of the B773/B77W. Also, didn't CX get additional slots at MNL totalling 7x daily flights to HKG v.v. As far as I remember, I think SQ wants a 5th rotation and QR, EK and EY all wanted a 3rd daily rotation with QR and EK only granted 3x extra weekly. Correct me if I am wrong though.


Due to limited slots at MNL, EK and QR were allowed a few more slots, but in exchange they had to launch services to outside MNL (CEB/CRK in the case of EK, and CRK and DVO in the case of QR). In fact, it could be argued that QR's DOH-CRK flight exists mainly because they can't expand at MNL further even if they wanted to, so they had to fly to the alternate airport instead.


If that is the case then whatever happened to KE's B738 service to MNL? I believe KE sends their B773/B77W and the occasional A333/B744 to MNL but if they cant get anymore slots, wouldn't it just make sense if KE sends their B748i on their 2x daily rotation and the B777 replacing the B738 service? I am quite surprised that KE and the ME3 cant get anymore slots at MNL but CX can, I believe CX used to serve MNL 6x daily with the additional 7th flight added a few years ago with CX using a mixture of B77W/B773/A333/A359/A35K. In addition to KE, the ME3, SQ, MH also wants extra frequencies but instead they send their A333 on various days. Saying that though, CZ managed to get a 4th daily rotation.
 
FSDan
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:47 am

J343 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
questions wrote:
Why would DL want to fly JFK-HKG? What’s the business case to support it?


DL has been very public about wanting to be the preferred carrier for New Yorkers. NYC-HKG is a major route for the Finance industry, which is obviously one of the most important segments of the New York economy. Hence, there are many potential DL customers and corporate clients who care whether or not DL flies this route.

Of course, whether there is a serious business case for DL remains to be seen - they haven't announced the route up to this point, but I'd be very surprised if they weren't taking a good hard look at it. And, while I don't have access to the data DL would use to evaluate these routes, I would expect the business case for JFK-HKG to be at least as strong as the business case for SEA-HKG or DTW-HKG based on the O&D traffic.


There may be a strong business case but can DL compete with CX's 3x daily HKG-JFK and 1x daily HKG-YVR-JFK and 1x daily HKG-EWR in addition to UA's daily EWR-HKG?


That's the real question. If the competition wasn't as high as it is, the route would be a no-brainer. As it is, against CX and UA, DL would be at a major disadvantage for the HKG point of sale traffic. And unless DL could get some decent corporate backing on the U.S. side, I suspect the route wouldn't be worth it. DL's supposedly been doing very well with corporate clients in NYC, so never say never.
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HeeseokKoo
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:59 am

J343 wrote:
If that is the case then whatever happened to KE's B738 service to MNL? I believe KE sends their B773/B77W and the occasional A333/B744 to MNL but if they cant get anymore slots, wouldn't it just make sense if KE sends their B748i on their 2x daily rotation and the B777 replacing the B738 service? I am quite surprised that KE and the ME3 cant get anymore slots at MNL but CX can, I believe CX used to serve MNL 6x daily with the additional 7th flight added a few years ago with CX using a mixture of B77W/B773/A333/A359/A35K. In addition to KE, the ME3, SQ, MH also wants extra frequencies but instead they send their A333 on various days. Saying that though, CZ managed to get a 4th daily rotation.

I might be wrong but KE can provide up to 5308 weekly seats to MNL. In fact, 178 seats were recently added, making it 5486 seats. Winter schedule counts around 5300 seats (14 773+4 738 each week) but KE is offering only 4400 seats this week, which means it chose not to utilize 100% in summer.
 
questions
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:38 am

FSDan wrote:
J343 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

DL has been very public about wanting to be the preferred carrier for New Yorkers. NYC-HKG is a major route for the Finance industry, which is obviously one of the most important segments of the New York economy. Hence, there are many potential DL customers and corporate clients who care whether or not DL flies this route.

Of course, whether there is a serious business case for DL remains to be seen - they haven't announced the route up to this point, but I'd be very surprised if they weren't taking a good hard look at it. And, while I don't have access to the data DL would use to evaluate these routes, I would expect the business case for JFK-HKG to be at least as strong as the business case for SEA-HKG or DTW-HKG based on the O&D traffic.


There may be a strong business case but can DL compete with CX's 3x daily HKG-JFK and 1x daily HKG-YVR-JFK and 1x daily HKG-EWR in addition to UA's daily EWR-HKG?


That's the real question. If the competition wasn't as high as it is, the route would be a no-brainer. As it is, against CX and UA, DL would be at a major disadvantage for the HKG point of sale traffic. And unless DL could get some decent corporate backing on the U.S. side, I suspect the route wouldn't be worth it. DL's supposedly been doing very well with corporate clients in NYC, so never say never.


When I asked, What’s the business case to support it? I meant more than the current demand on the route. Every business case I’ve seen includes, among other assessments, a competitive analysis and financial analysis. DL is extremely conservative and developing a market like JFK-HKG would be challenging. DL would have to take a lot of corporate clients already being served by CX and UA as well as a general increase in demand to make the financials work. Given the number of CX flights to JFK, CX AND UA flights EWR-HKG and lack of a partner on the HKG end DL is just late to the game without a winning strategy for this route. As much as I’d like to see DL be a powerhouse to Asia I just don’t think it’s realistic anytime soon unless something drastic changes in the market. Hence, What’s the business case to support it?
 
notconcerned
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:39 am

FSDan wrote:
That's the real question. If the competition wasn't as high as it is, the route would be a no-brainer. As it is, against CX and UA, DL would be at a major disadvantage for the HKG point of sale traffic. And unless DL could get some decent corporate backing on the U.S. side, I suspect the route wouldn't be worth it. DL's supposedly been doing very well with corporate clients in NYC, so never say never.


DL hasn't even announced JFK-ICN where for obvious reasons makes more sense to connect NYC-Asia than NYC-HKG/TYO. Plus they can coordinate with KE and face a much weaker competitor (OZ). DL was unable to compete on JFK-NRT against similar competitive conditions as HKG, even with some additional 5th freedom feed at the time (SIN, MNL, GUM, etc.). I just don't see how a JFK-HKG would have the right financial conditions for DL. MU would also cannibalize a lot of the sale with their competitive low 1-stop fares.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:55 am

FSDan wrote:
questions wrote:
Why would DL want to fly JFK-HKG? What’s the business case to support it?


DL has been very public about wanting to be the preferred carrier for New Yorkers. NYC-HKG is a major route for the Finance industry, which is obviously one of the most important segments of the New York economy. Hence, there are many potential DL customers and corporate clients who care whether or not DL flies this route.

Of course, whether there is a serious business case for DL remains to be seen - they haven't announced the route up to this point, but I'd be very surprised if they weren't taking a good hard look at it. And, while I don't have access to the data DL would use to evaluate these routes, I would expect the business case for JFK-HKG to be at least as strong as the business case for SEA-HKG or DTW-HKG based on the O&D traffic.


If Delta was so serious about NY, why did it not ask for a JFK-HND allocation (over PDX-HND) when the slots were being handed out? It would have seemed to be a no brainer if what you're saying is true.
 
J343
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:47 am

questions wrote:
FSDan wrote:
J343 wrote:

There may be a strong business case but can DL compete with CX's 3x daily HKG-JFK and 1x daily HKG-YVR-JFK and 1x daily HKG-EWR in addition to UA's daily EWR-HKG?


That's the real question. If the competition wasn't as high as it is, the route would be a no-brainer. As it is, against CX and UA, DL would be at a major disadvantage for the HKG point of sale traffic. And unless DL could get some decent corporate backing on the U.S. side, I suspect the route wouldn't be worth it. DL's supposedly been doing very well with corporate clients in NYC, so never say never.


When I asked, What’s the business case to support it? I meant more than the current demand on the route. Every business case I’ve seen includes, among other assessments, a competitive analysis and financial analysis. DL is extremely conservative and developing a market like JFK-HKG would be challenging. DL would have to take a lot of corporate clients already being served by CX and UA as well as a general increase in demand to make the financials work. Given the number of CX flights to JFK, CX AND UA flights EWR-HKG and lack of a partner on the HKG end DL is just late to the game without a winning strategy for this route. As much as I’d like to see DL be a powerhouse to Asia I just don’t think it’s realistic anytime soon unless something drastic changes in the market. Hence, What’s the business case to support it?


CX has a lot of loyal FF in HK with UA being established in the route hence why both carriers enjoy a duopoly for HKG-JFK/EWR not to mention one stop options with BR via TPE and JL/NH via NRT and HND and of course OZ and KE via ICN with both using A380s. It is probably best for DL to leave JFK-HKG to their SkyTeam partner, KE and to a lesser extent, MU via PVG. As others have mentioned, perhaps DL could serve HKG from DTW or ATL, perhaps there will be a stronger business case for DTW/ATL- HKG.
 
tphuang
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:40 pm

You can't leave HKG to your partners. It's a route you either serve non-stop or you lose. If DL can't even be bothered to ask for JFK-HND slots and instead asking for PDX/HNL-HND, what makes people think they will try JFK-HKG? Tokyo is a much more important market out of NYC than HND.

DL is inability to get non-leisure international market outside of Europe to work out of JFK is pretty glaring.
 
FSDan
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:40 pm

questions wrote:
When I asked, What’s the business case to support it? I meant more than the current demand on the route. Every business case I’ve seen includes, among other assessments, a competitive analysis and financial analysis. DL is extremely conservative and developing a market like JFK-HKG would be challenging.


I agree it would be challenging, and not necessarily a route DL is willing to take on. Again, I'm merely stating that if it's not a route DL is taking a good look at, I'd be surprised. Route planners look at the viability of serving routes that are important to the clientele they are chasing, and JFK-HKG is definitely one of those.

questions wrote:
DL would have to take a lot of corporate clients already being served by CX and UA as well as a general increase in demand to make the financials work.


Yes, they would have to steal corporate clients. Probably on the basis of overall network strength vs AA's dwindling presence. If DL could go to X bank that has a contract with AA and pitch them nonstop flights to LHR (high frequency), FRA, ZRH, MXP, BOM, GRU, etc. and potentially offer a well-timed nonstop to HKG as well, they'd probably have a chance at stealing some contracts. Obviously UA would be well positioned to win these as well, so it certainly wouldn't be a cake walk.
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FSDan
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:50 pm

notconcerned wrote:
DL hasn't even announced JFK-ICN where for obvious reasons makes more sense to connect NYC-Asia than NYC-HKG/TYO. Plus they can coordinate with KE and face a much weaker competitor (OZ).


Because of the metal-neutral JV with KE, I don't see why DL would want to launch JFK-ICN. With 2x daily A380s, I imagine KE already offers plenty of capacity to handle high-value O&D + plenty of onward connecting traffic.

notconcerned wrote:
DL was unable to compete on JFK-NRT against similar competitive conditions as HKG, even with some additional 5th freedom feed at the time (SIN, MNL, GUM, etc.). I just don't see how a JFK-HKG would have the right financial conditions for DL. MU would also cannibalize a lot of the sale with their competitive low 1-stop fares.


DL did pull out of JFK-NRT, but I believe part of the dynamics there was that NH and JL were going to be flying to HND while DL was stuck over at NRT. DL has also introduced a much more competitive business class product since then, and has definitely improved their overall position in the NYC market (even though they are still behind UA internationally).

Again, you could very well be correct that this market is too tough for DL, but I do think they have more going for them now than at any point prior.
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FSDan
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:56 pm

J343 wrote:
As others have mentioned, perhaps DL could serve HKG from DTW or ATL, perhaps there will be a stronger business case for DTW/ATL- HKG.


This is the biggest point I disagree with. While JFK-HKG would not be an easy market for DL and would take time to develop, I definitely think it has the most upside of any U.S.-HKG market DL could serve. Since DL doesn't have connections beyond HKG they would need to be in a market with strong O&D. ATL and DTW just aren't those markets. If just connections were enough, DTW-HKG or SEA-HKG should have stuck around longer than they did.

In summary, my point is that while DL may decide to sit on the sidelines of the HKG market for the foreseeable future, if they decided to jump back in, JFK-HKG would seem like a stronger option than SEA-HKG, DTW-HKG, and certainly ATL-HKG.
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J343
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:58 pm

So its confirmed. Delta closes NRT-MNL effective April 2020

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... pril-2020/
 
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UPlog
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:21 pm

Delta Laying Off All Asia-Based Flight Attendants
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... attendants

With Delta de-hubbing Tokyo Narita, their Asia-based flight attendants lose their jobs. They’ll be closing the Tokyo flight attendant base and offering transfers to the Customer Engagement Center (reservations) at Narita.
 
x1234
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:33 pm

So when is the ICN-MNL flights going to be loaded?
 
panamair
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:39 pm

J343 wrote:
So its confirmed. Delta closes NRT-MNL effective April 2020

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... pril-2020/


They have zeroed out inventory for the NRT-MNL/MNL-NRT segments but the flight is still bookable as part of a MNL-U.S. or U.S.-MNL itinerary. Later when they load ICN-MNL, they will just transfer those pax
onto the MNL-ICN-US routing.

UPlog wrote:
Delta Laying Off All Asia-Based Flight Attendants
https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.co ... attendants

With Delta de-hubbing Tokyo Narita, their Asia-based flight attendants lose their jobs. They’ll be closing the Tokyo flight attendant base and offering transfers to the Customer Engagement Center (reservations) at Narita.


I believe they are keeping the MNL FA base for MNL-ICN though...so it's not quite laying off ALL "Asia-based Flight attendants"
 
carlokiii
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:52 pm

J343 wrote:
So its confirmed. Delta closes NRT-MNL effective April 2020

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... pril-2020/

So with the last route closing, it’s official... DL is closing the NRT hub by April 2020.

I hope they make a little throwback event commemorating NRT, but I doubt they would.
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: Rumor: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:57 pm

ITB wrote:
Have to admit DL no longer serving Singapore, an Alpha+ world city ranked No. 5 in the Global Power Index, is concerning. That BKK was dropped a few years back, and SGN is not even on the radar, is unsettling. What's next? MNL? Let's hope ICN-MNL is successful.



Delta Trashed their Asian network. The 25 times Inflew to Asia the 747’s were packed. If they had the 787 maybe they would make more money
 
Dldiamondboy
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:34 pm

x1234 wrote:
Since DL is moving to ICN, KE/DL should add a morning ICN-SIN flight to the bank so when the ATL-ICN flight arrives there's no 10.5 hour layover as there currently is.


Could not agree more!!! I am guessing that oddball DL 27 (ATL-ICN) departure time allows DL to squeak out an extra segment per day/week with the A350. As it stands now if you want to stay on Delta metal/CFRP from ATL-SIN you have an extra leg to DTW/LAX/SEA or a 12 hour layover at ICN. Singapore Airlines does have a 8am flight from ICN-SIN that lines up well with DL 27 arrival time wise but one would have to do carry on bags which is already a issue on the A350 with no center overhead bins in the Delta 1 cabin. Does anyone know how easy it is to get from T2 @ ICN to the terminal Singapore Airlines uses? I have only ever connected in T2 between Korean and Delta.
 
BenflysDTW
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:13 pm

Dldiamondboy wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Since DL is moving to ICN, KE/DL should add a morning ICN-SIN flight to the bank so when the ATL-ICN flight arrives there's no 10.5 hour layover as there currently is.


Could not agree more!!! I am guessing that oddball DL 27 (ATL-ICN) departure time allows DL to squeak out an extra segment per day/week with the A350. As it stands now if you want to stay on Delta metal/CFRP from ATL-SIN you have an extra leg to DTW/LAX/SEA or a 12 hour layover at ICN. Singapore Airlines does have a 8am flight from ICN-SIN that lines up well with DL 27 arrival time wise but one would have to do carry on bags which is already a issue on the A350 with no center overhead bins in the Delta 1 cabin. Does anyone know how easy it is to get from T2 @ ICN to the terminal Singapore Airlines uses? I have only ever connected in T2 between Korean and Delta.


DL does not fly ICN-LAX. They fly ICN-MSP, just a small mistake that you may have forgotten.
 
cessna2
Topic Author
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:33 am

They are actually hiring more MNL based Flight Attendants. ICN-MNL will either be served on the A350, A330NEO, or B777.

I believe they are keeping the MNL FA base for MNL-ICN though...so it's not quite laying off ALL "Asia-based Flight attendants"[/quote]
 
UA857
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:12 am

BenflysDTW wrote:
Dldiamondboy wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Since DL is moving to ICN, KE/DL should add a morning ICN-SIN flight to the bank so when the ATL-ICN flight arrives there's no 10.5 hour layover as there currently is.


Could not agree more!!! I am guessing that oddball DL 27 (ATL-ICN) departure time allows DL to squeak out an extra segment per day/week with the A350. As it stands now if you want to stay on Delta metal/CFRP from ATL-SIN you have an extra leg to DTW/LAX/SEA or a 12 hour layover at ICN. Singapore Airlines does have a 8am flight from ICN-SIN that lines up well with DL 27 arrival time wise but one would have to do carry on bags which is already a issue on the A350 with no center overhead bins in the Delta 1 cabin. Does anyone know how easy it is to get from T2 @ ICN to the terminal Singapore Airlines uses? I have only ever connected in T2 between Korean and Delta.


DL does not fly ICN-LAX. They fly ICN-MSP, just a small mistake that you may have forgotten.

Could DL fly ICN-LAX
 
BenflysDTW
Posts: 276
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:24 am

UA857 wrote:
BenflysDTW wrote:
Dldiamondboy wrote:

Could not agree more!!! I am guessing that oddball DL 27 (ATL-ICN) departure time allows DL to squeak out an extra segment per day/week with the A350. As it stands now if you want to stay on Delta metal/CFRP from ATL-SIN you have an extra leg to DTW/LAX/SEA or a 12 hour layover at ICN. Singapore Airlines does have a 8am flight from ICN-SIN that lines up well with DL 27 arrival time wise but one would have to do carry on bags which is already a issue on the A350 with no center overhead bins in the Delta 1 cabin. Does anyone know how easy it is to get from T2 @ ICN to the terminal Singapore Airlines uses? I have only ever connected in T2 between Korean and Delta.


DL does not fly ICN-LAX. They fly ICN-MSP, just a small mistake that you may have forgotten.

Could DL fly ICN-LAX


Of course they could, but they could also do JFK-ICN. Or perhaps even HNL-ICN. The trend has been though for KE to serve the major markets, while delta serves more legacy hubs, with MSP/DTW. Although KE does serve ATL, and SEA alongside DL.
 
questions
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:30 am

Delta was late to the game in Asia.

When forming SkyTeam they were left with third pick airlines.

When it became obvious that NW’s former Narita hub was neither operationally nor financially viable DL found itself in a challenging position — it could no longer fly the Asia/Pacific network NW built; it did not have an enviable, equivalent hub like UA’s SFO; it was fleet-challenged; and an AF/KL-like strategy for Asia would be difficult to replicate given its less than desirable partners.

Some may say DL squandered Asia/Pacific through a series of strategic missteps.

Others will argue DL is conservative and it’s financial performance speaks to making the right strategic choices.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:41 pm

Now that DOT Haneda awards are final, Delta issues press release

Delta to become largest U.S. carrier serving Tokyo-Haneda in 2020
https://news.delta.com/delta-become-lar ... aneda-2020
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ITSTours
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:44 pm

"launch new daily ICN-MNL service operated by Delta."

Confirmed!
 
beanie72
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:51 pm

I see MSP-HND is going to A359 from a B772
 
winginit
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Re: Rumor: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:00 pm

DL757NYC wrote:
ITB wrote:
Have to admit DL no longer serving Singapore, an Alpha+ world city ranked No. 5 in the Global Power Index, is concerning. That BKK was dropped a few years back, and SGN is not even on the radar, is unsettling. What's next? MNL? Let's hope ICN-MNL is successful.



Delta Trashed their Asian network. The 25 times Inflew to Asia the 747’s were packed. If they had the 787 maybe they would make more money


As I hope you know, load factor (ie 'the 747s were packed') has no bearing whatsoever on profitability. A jam-packed 747 running an annualized load factor in the 90s can, and often does for many carriers, bleed millions every year.
 
jumbojet
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:41 am

tphuang wrote:
You can't leave HKG to your partners. It's a route you either serve non-stop or you lose. If DL can't even be bothered to ask for JFK-HND slots and instead asking for PDX/HNL-HND, what makes people think they will try JFK-HKG? Tokyo is a much more important market out of NYC than HND.

DL is inability to get non-leisure international market outside of Europe to work out of JFK is pretty glaring.


NYC to TYO is oversaturated, 5 flights a day. AA doesnt even fly NYC - TYO NS on their own metal. If DL wanted to can easily fill a plane on a JFK to TYO flight but at what cost? They're gonna make tons more money (something you should know plenty about) flying to HND out of their other hubs.

As for your last statement, DL absolutely does have the ability to get you to where you need to get to out of JFK to anywhere in the world (and not just Europe). Just because its not on there metal means nothing, They very smartly rely on their JV partners for destinations that hey know they cant print money on. Profit is more important to Delta than just filling a plane for the sake of filling it.

There are plenty of people that would just as easily book a ticket on DL and fly JFK-ICN-SIN and avoid a connection at SFO. SFO is a disaster. Chronic delays with waiting for gates, weather related and not to mention the airport itself is a disaster.
 
jumbojet
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:10 am

No one airline can be everything to everyone at JFK. It is served by way to many airlines from all over the world. DL very smartly knows this. AA smarty knows this. UA benefits from serving a completely different market across the river in NJ. Tphaung, your comment about DL at JFK is silly and immature.
 
CalebWilliams
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:29 am

beanie72 wrote:
I see MSP-HND is going to A359 from a B772

I for one, cannot wait.
Caleb Williams MSP AUS STL AMS CPH LGW YYZ
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:22 am

How did DL get the rights to operate ICN-MNL? Why wouldn't KE handle that traffic?
 
tphuang
Posts: 3110
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:22 am

jumbojet wrote:
tphuang wrote:
You can't leave HKG to your partners. It's a route you either serve non-stop or you lose. If DL can't even be bothered to ask for JFK-HND slots and instead asking for PDX/HNL-HND, what makes people think they will try JFK-HKG? Tokyo is a much more important market out of NYC than HND.

DL is inability to get non-leisure international market outside of Europe to work out of JFK is pretty glaring.


NYC to TYO is oversaturated, 5 flights a day. AA doesnt even fly NYC - TYO NS on their own metal. If DL wanted to can easily fill a plane on a JFK to TYO flight but at what cost? They're gonna make tons more money (something you should know plenty about) flying to HND out of their other hubs.

As for your last statement, DL absolutely does have the ability to get you to where you need to get to out of JFK to anywhere in the world (and not just Europe). Just because its not on there metal means nothing, They very smartly rely on their JV partners for destinations that hey know they cant print money on. Profit is more important to Delta than just filling a plane for the sake of filling it.

There are plenty of people that would just as easily book a ticket on DL and fly JFK-ICN-SIN and avoid a connection at SFO. SFO is a disaster. Chronic delays with waiting for gates, weather related and not to mention the airport itself is a disaster.

Delta flies plenty of money losing routes. It just doesn't think this is worth it. Most people are not going to connect at icn when connecting at Hong Kong or Tokyo offers so much better schedule. Who in their right mind would connect at sfo. That's so out of the way. You really need to fly to these places a little bit to understand which network works to where.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 2815
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:40 pm

tphuang wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
tphuang wrote:
You can't leave HKG to your partners. It's a route you either serve non-stop or you lose. If DL can't even be bothered to ask for JFK-HND slots and instead asking for PDX/HNL-HND, what makes people think they will try JFK-HKG? Tokyo is a much more important market out of NYC than HND.

DL is inability to get non-leisure international market outside of Europe to work out of JFK is pretty glaring.


NYC to TYO is oversaturated, 5 flights a day. AA doesnt even fly NYC - TYO NS on their own metal. If DL wanted to can easily fill a plane on a JFK to TYO flight but at what cost? They're gonna make tons more money (something you should know plenty about) flying to HND out of their other hubs.

As for your last statement, DL absolutely does have the ability to get you to where you need to get to out of JFK to anywhere in the world (and not just Europe). Just because its not on there metal means nothing, They very smartly rely on their JV partners for destinations that hey know they cant print money on. Profit is more important to Delta than just filling a plane for the sake of filling it.

There are plenty of people that would just as easily book a ticket on DL and fly JFK-ICN-SIN and avoid a connection at SFO. SFO is a disaster. Chronic delays with waiting for gates, weather related and not to mention the airport itself is a disaster.

Delta flies plenty of money losing routes. It just doesn't think this is worth it. Most people are not going to connect at icn when connecting at Hong Kong or Tokyo offers so much better schedule. Who in their right mind would connect at sfo. That's so out of the way. You really need to fly to these places a little bit to understand which network works to where.


Whether or not you choose to connect at; SFO, ICN, HKG (fill in the blank) is up to the individual. What works for me might not work for you. My point being is that you can go to Delta.com, input JFK as your point of departure, enter in just about any major (or secondary or tertiary) business/leisure destination in the world (including Asia) as your arrival airport and you will get their with no more than 1 stop. It might be on Delta metal or it might be via a JV partner. And when you run an airline like that, your running it very profitably, very smartly and very efficiently.

As I noted above, JFK is unique in that just about every major airline in the world has a footprint at JFK. No one airline can be that dominant at JFK. Hence the need at JFK for a well run partnership that enables (DL in this case) you to reach out to all points of the world with no more than 1 connection. DL can easily throw an A350 and fly (and fill) JFK - TYO but at what cost? They can fly JFK-HKG but again, at what cost? This has been said ad nauseum but how many airlines fly NYC-TYO and NYC - HKG? Doesnt make DL weak, it makes then a much smarter run airline and most importantly, the most profitable airline in the world; and you dont get to that status by flying from the states to Europe and to Florida. Just look at what happened to AA at JFK. What airline do you think is the most dominant at JFK when it comes to serving long haul international destinations? (TATL, TPAC, SA)

And yes, DL flies plenty of money losing routes, what airline doesnt? It's one of the reasons why they make the kind of money they do. Even your beloved blue flies money losing routes.

Getting way off topic, now that I am retired and no longer commuting to the city, and living just north of the city, my frequent trips to Florida will now be on Blue, either out of Newburgh or Westchester airport. What a cluster f*** LGA is. I landed at LGA yesterday and it took my car service driver 45 minutes just to get from the GCP to terminal C. I could connect on Delta out of HPN but if my final destination is Florida, begrudgingly I will fly blue.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:02 am

b777900 wrote:
DL already said JFK to HKG if it all it ever happens

No they didn't.


tphuang wrote:
Tokyo is a much more important market out of NYC than HND.

:confused:


tphuang wrote:
DL is inability to get non-leisure international market outside of Europe to work out of JFK is pretty glaring.

When did ACC, DSS, KIN, LOS, BOG, GRU, TLV, etc become leisure routes?


tphuang wrote:
Delta flies plenty of money losing routes.

List some.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5620
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:17 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Delta flies plenty of money losing routes.

List some.


And cite your sources that show these are money-losing routes, please.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3110
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Re: Unconfirmed: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:01 pm

jumbojet wrote:

Whether or not you choose to connect at; SFO, ICN, HKG (fill in the blank) is up to the individual. What works for me might not work for you. My point being is that you can go to Delta.com, input JFK as your point of departure, enter in just about any major (or secondary or tertiary) business/leisure destination in the world (including Asia) as your arrival airport and you will get their with no more than 1 stop. It might be on Delta metal or it might be via a JV partner. And when you run an airline like that, your running it very profitably, very smartly and very efficiently.

It's great for DL that you only search on their website for long range travel, but I use corporate travel or google flight or skyscanner to do my searches. DL just doesn't offer an attractive option anywhere in Asia. And going to Asia from NYC, it makes very little sense to fly out of SFO.

As I noted above, JFK is unique in that just about every major airline in the world has a footprint at JFK. No one airline can be that dominant at JFK. Hence the need at JFK for a well run partnership that enables (DL in this case) you to reach out to all points of the world with no more than 1 connection. DL can easily throw an A350 and fly (and fill) JFK - TYO but at what cost? They can fly JFK-HKG but again, at what cost? This has been said ad nauseum but how many airlines fly NYC-TYO and NYC - HKG? Doesnt make DL weak, it makes then a much smarter run airline and most importantly, the most profitable airline in the world; and you dont get to that status by flying from the states to Europe and to Florida. Just look at what happened to AA at JFK. What airline do you think is the most dominant at JFK when it comes to serving long haul international destinations? (TATL, TPAC, SA)

Of course, DL is no obligated to fly these routes. At the same time, they won't get the customers who fly to Asia a lot. As a whole, DL has become the most dominant airline in JFK/LGA. I think all the publicly available data + empirical data would support this. But for TPAC, *A + UA out of NYC is imo far and away the best options and OW is after them due to the frequency of schedule to TYO and HKG. As I said before, number of flight to HKG on CX + CX schedule to other ASEAN countries make OW a good #2 option to Asia out of NYC. Sometimes, all you need is one strong partner. And to South America, I would say AA is the best option out of JFK. It flies to EZE, GEO, GRU, GIG directly + offers very flexible connections from MIA. And if you are willing to fly out of EWR, UA has the pretty good options with direct flights to BOG, EZE, LIM and GRU. NYC is a fragmented market. DL even as the strongest airline here is not going to be dominant to every region. It's the clear leader to Europe and Africa.

And yes, DL flies plenty of money losing routes, what airline doesnt? It's one of the reasons why they make the kind of money they do. Even your beloved blue flies money losing routes.

Getting way off topic, now that I am retired and no longer commuting to the city, and living just north of the city, my frequent trips to Florida will now be on Blue, either out of Newburgh or Westchester airport. What a cluster f*** LGA is. I landed at LGA yesterday and it took my car service driver 45 minutes just to get from the GCP to terminal C. I could connect on Delta out of HPN but if my final destination is Florida, begrudgingly I will fly blue.

of course, every airline has money losing routes. JetBlue would have even greater proportion of its routes losing money than DL. I'm not disputing that DL is the better run airline. Evidence clearly says it's a really well run airline. I'm simply pointing out that it has made the decision that JFK to East Asia is not a battle it's willing to get into right now. And that's fine. It's just not going to get ff like myself who flies to Asia a lot.

And on the begrudgingly flying part, I live next to EWR now, so I will be begrudgingly flying UA from now on. And I had sworn a while back to never fly UA again. I'm glad to hear you will give blue a chance. As much as I like them, I don't see myself flying much with them until they start flying to Europe.

MIflyer12 wrote:

And cite your sources that show these are money-losing routes, please.

I've been posting BOS yield numbers on JetBlue thread. Plenty to chose from there.
 
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idp5601
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:23 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
How did DL get the rights to operate ICN-MNL? Why wouldn't KE handle that traffic?


Apparently only 2% of passengers flying MNL-NRT disembarked at NRT, according to a generally trusted aviation insider. The 98% connect on to US-bound DL flights.

Also, according to said insider DL also have plans of flying direct SEA-MNL w/ the A359s, but it's not a top priority as of this moment.
 
x1234
Posts: 504
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:00 pm

idp5601, if DL plans on SEA-MNL they can do it with a cheaper A339neo. Tag on flights are REALLY EXPENSIVE crew wise so I'm wondering why DL decided to do the tag-on solution out of ICN or simply let KE serve MNL.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2123
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:03 pm

x1234 wrote:
idp5601, if DL plans on SEA-MNL they can do it with a cheaper A339neo. Tag on flights are REALLY EXPENSIVE crew wise so I'm wondering why DL decided to do the tag-on solution out of ICN or simply let KE serve MNL.


All of these statements are refuted above.
 
Prost
Posts: 2420
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Re: DL closing NRT. Suspends NRT-SIN, Announces ICN-MNL

Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:39 pm

Right now I imagine a lot of people are scrambling to change future reservations to avoid transferring in HKG. DL’s SEA-HKG flight would be a basket case right now with the HKG demonstrations taking place.
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