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Revelation
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:09 pm

Yep. In our 737 grounded thread I posted:

Revelation wrote:
https://www.unionleader.com/news/business/southwest-ceo-on-max-there-s-no-better--seat/article_e450b9ec-de8e-5fa5-ab79-27d9c4e5ab00.html says:

Southwest Airlines CEO Gary Kelly says there is “no better 175-seat airplane” than the now-grounded Boeing 737 Max jet, despite critics who think the airline is too cozy with the manufacturer.
....
“Part of the tragedy is that that’s a great airplane,” Kelly said. “We are dedicated to this airplane.”
....
“As a practical matter, if we want to diversify the fleet, it would take us years.”


So the CEO himself admits fleet diversity would take years to implement.
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lightsaber
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:30 pm

Revelation wrote:
Yep. In our 737 grounded thread I posted:

Revelation wrote:
https://www.unionleader.com/news/business/southwest-ceo-on-max-there-s-no-better--seat/article_e450b9ec-de8e-5fa5-ab79-27d9c4e5ab00.html says:

Southwest Airlines CEO Gary Kelly says there is “no better 175-seat airplane” than the now-grounded Boeing 737 Max jet, despite critics who think the airline is too cozy with the manufacturer.
....
“Part of the tragedy is that that’s a great airplane,” Kelly said. “We are dedicated to this airplane.”
....
“As a practical matter, if we want to diversify the fleet, it would take us years.”


So the CEO himself admits fleet diversity would take years to implement.

That is an honest assessment of Southwest airlines by there CEO. Wow... A CEO with a true pulse of the airline, facinating.

Lightsaber
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kimimm19
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:11 pm

The A220 doesn't compete in the 175 seat market so the only aircraft Southwest is comparing is the a320neo...
 
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Revelation
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:34 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
The A220 doesn't compete in the 175 seat market so the only aircraft Southwest is comparing is the a320neo...

Don't complain to me because WN comes up every time someone starts an A220 thread.

It seems to be a pet narrative of more than a few A.net members, despite the fact that WN keeps telling us about its LUV for the 737 and the challenges it would face should it decide to diversify its fleet.
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kimimm19
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:
The A220 doesn't compete in the 175 seat market so the only aircraft Southwest is comparing is the a320neo...

Don't complain to me because WN comes up every time someone starts an A220 thread.

It seems to be a pet narrative of more than a few A.net members, despite the fact that WN keeps telling us about its LUV for the 737 and the challenges it would face should it decide to diversify its fleet.


One can interpret things in different ways.

I personally think that Southwest SHOULD (not will) order the A220, especially on shorter routes but hey ho.
 
F9Animal
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:35 pm

What are the chances say Alaska might be kicking the tires? Any rumors with United or American?
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SteelChair
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:44 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Yep. In our 737 grounded thread I posted:

Revelation wrote:
https://www.unionleader.com/news/business/southwest-ceo-on-max-there-s-no-better--seat/article_e450b9ec-de8e-5fa5-ab79-27d9c4e5ab00.html says:



So the CEO himself admits fleet diversity would take years to implement.

That is an honest assessment of Southwest airlines by there CEO. Wow... A CEO with a true pulse of the airline, facinating.

Lightsaber


Its inconceivable to me that his organization is so limited and that he places such constraints on his workforce.
 
Lufthansa
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:34 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
LoganTheBogan wrote:
Oh what I'd do to see a Qantas, Virgin Australia or Air New Zealand A220 <3


I just cannot see Qantas not ordering the A220, it's the perfect way to replace all those different types. Also a good opportunity for the A220-100.

Image

As much is i would love a ANZ order, it's really unlikely given the A320neo order.


This diagram's out of date. The network A320s aren't even mentioned in it and the 747 fleet is less than that now.
The A220 I wouldn't right off for one reason. It's gonna have a lot better takeoff performance than the old F100,
something important for regional WA and QLD. That means more freight, and no weight restrictions during
heat waves. Of course like anything there has to be a business case for it that its worth the capital investment.
 
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OA940
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:38 pm

Why do people still call the A220 a regional jet when it was never marketed as such and it has more range than the 737-800/A320?

I'd be surprised if KL didn't at least take up their options. JL/NH I'm not so sure about, and honestly I can't see any obvious candidate for the A220 over there. Myanmar could use smaller aircraft, and considering the number of airlines compared to demand for the country I could see why an airline there would wanna fly the A220. VN is looking at narrowbodies right now so I'm not surprised they're stopping by. Also, AirAsia was in talks with BBD for CS300 order way back, and they said they could do a 160-seater version, which I believe is also the exit limit for the CS300/A220-300. So LCCs with A319s/737-700s or ones that are looking for smaller markets could use it for that.

I also think QF/VA will probably order the A220, and honestly its the best place to look when it comes to 717 replacements. Also gives the A220-100 more orders which is always a plus. Speaking of 717s, I wonder if HA would consider an order. I know that their 717 ops are different and there is a lot of wear that the engines will have to withstand, but at the moment i see no better alternative. Also on this note, I think Volotea could be a candidate. With the 717 and A319 in their fleet, a mixed order would be perfect for replacing both. But at the moment all we can do is speculate/hope. Only time will tell.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
WN732
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:17 am

Jean Leloup wrote:
vsflyer747400 wrote:
Miramar? I think you mean Myanmar!


Nope. Word on the street is that Naval Air Station Miramar is going to place an order for 10 A220-300's. They are likely to be used as flying billboards for a recruiting campaign, set to coincide with the new Top Gun movie. Apparently John Travolta has been helping Tom Cruise get certified with an ATPL; should be quite the event. CSALP has found away to grant some quick production slots to make this happen.

Aaaanyway, I think we've done enough piling-on to what was obviously just an auto-correct.

It will be interesting to see whether any orders result from this tour, especially given that this isn't the first time the plan has been to SE Asia for similar purposes. Also, what are the earliest slots Airbus is able to offer for the A220 right now? While the orderbook isn't massive, neither is the production rate. so if a new carrier signed on, how long would it take them to get 2 or 3 frames and start service?

JL


Sully is going to fly one under the Coronado Bridge and land in the Harbor next to the Star of India
 
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aerolimani
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:25 am

OA940 wrote:
Why do people still call the A220 a regional jet when it was never marketed as such and it has more range than the 737-800/A320?

Indeed. Somehow, people think it’s a small plane. The diameter is less than a 737 or A320, but not by much.

Image
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:37 am

There is also the fact that ALC has a 50-aircraft order book for the BCS3. Any potential airlines looking at this could lease new frames from ALC for quicker delivery, such as Bangkok Airways, which leases mainline-sized aircraft but owns its turboprops, and this could replace both their A319s and A320s.

The other US airline to watch for the BCS3 might be NK, as, while they have been buying their A319s as leases expire, the BCS3 is 7 tons lighter (although it would introduce a new model to their fleet). However, they could require enough frames to make economics of scale work, as they don't need all the range.
 
Sokes
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:13 am

TObound wrote:
The biggest hurdle today is probably the production rate. They have to ramp faster.

By the end of 2024, they will have produced maybe ~700 aircraft. And they already have ~600 orders. Sure ~100 of those might not materialize. But between existing orders and options likely to materialize, they are effectively sold out through 2024. Their refusal to ramp faster is probably hurting sales.
\

Why would Airbus try to sell the plane worldwide if they can't ramp up fast? O.k., more potential customers who want the plane badly. But in exchange maintainance also has to be spread out. Or do they offer their plane on the tour for after 2025 only?


SteelChair wrote:
TObound wrote:
...
You can read about the production ramp slowdown here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ghest-risk

I suspect a lot of reluctance to invest in ramping higher and faster, has to do with the fact that they don't own the program entirely and can't buy out Investment Quebec till 2024 and Bombardier till 2026. Investment which grows the program simply boosts the value of the shares they want to buy back.


Thanks for the link. I was unaware they were that pessimistic. I think they'll beat their own projections

And I've always felt like financial reports were contrived.

I suspect if ramping up and manufacturing the plane at a good price would have been easy
a) Bombardier may not have sold the program, b) there would have been more bidders, e.g. Mitsubishi c) Bombardier would not have to keep spending money on their present to Airbus.
Why Bombardier agreed to sell their stake in future back to Airbus is something I never understood. But I believe politics, and not the contract, will finally decide if Bombardier can keep their stake. I admit there is a high chance I'm wrong.

I guess Airbus is willing to accelerate manufacturing expansion once they figured how to produce cheaper. From which point in the learning curve is it advisable to hurry?
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art
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:50 am

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere: Airbus Starts Building First A220s in Mobile

Airbus has begun manufacturing the A220 at its U.S. assembly site in Mobile, Alabama, the company announced Monday. The first team of A220 production workers began work at the plant following their recent return from on-the-job training in Mirabel, Quebec, site of the A220 program and primary final assembly line.


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... 20s-mobile
 
EI321
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:04 pm

I believe the A220 would fit very well into the Aer Lingus fleet.
 
TheEuphorian
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:51 pm

In S.E.Asia, the A220 would be very good for PG(Bangkok Airways), replacing the A319 and A320, IN(NAM Air), replacing their ex-CO 737-500 fleet and also QV(Lao Airlines), replacing the A320.
 
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:03 pm

EI321 wrote:
I believe the A220 would fit very well into the Aer Lingus fleet.

I think the A220 is a bit too small, and that at their size EI would probably prefer to be A32X only rather than split between that and the A220 family.
 
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:16 pm

SteelChair wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Yep. In our 737 grounded thread I posted:


So the CEO himself admits fleet diversity would take years to implement.

That is an honest assessment of Southwest airlines by there CEO. Wow... A CEO with a true pulse of the airline, facinating.

Lightsaber


Its inconceivable to me that his organization is so limited and that he places such constraints on his workforce.

Core strengths are core regidities. Southwest is setup to operate one type very efficiently. To bring a 2nd into the fleet require:
1. New pilot contract
2. New FA contract
3. New IT software not over optimized for one type
4. New training scheme. Must be developed and implemented prior to introducing a new type.

The A220 won't fly for WN. I'm a Pratt fan. I so want WN to fly to the type. My hopes do not change reality.

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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:17 pm

Polot wrote:
EI321 wrote:
I believe the A220 would fit very well into the Aer Lingus fleet.

I think the A220 is a bit too small, and that at their size EI would probably prefer to be A32X only rather than split between that and the A220 family.

DUB has room. The A223 would be perfect, in particular if LCY compatible.

Lightsaber
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:24 pm

Sokes wrote:
TObound wrote:
The biggest hurdle today is probably the production rate. They have to ramp faster.

By the end of 2024, they will have produced maybe ~700 aircraft. And they already have ~600 orders. Sure ~100 of those might not materialize. But between existing orders and options likely to materialize, they are effectively sold out through 2024. Their refusal to ramp faster is probably hurting sales.
\

Why would Airbus try to sell the plane worldwide if they can't ramp up fast? O.k., more potential customers who want the plane badly. But in exchange maintainance also has to be spread out. Or do they offer their plane on the tour for after 2025 only?


SteelChair wrote:
TObound wrote:
...
You can read about the production ramp slowdown here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ghest-risk

I suspect a lot of reluctance to invest in ramping higher and faster, has to do with the fact that they don't own the program entirely and can't buy out Investment Quebec till 2024 and Bombardier till 2026. Investment which grows the program simply boosts the value of the shares they want to buy back.


Thanks for the link. I was unaware they were that pessimistic. I think they'll beat their own projections

And I've always felt like financial reports were contrived.

I suspect if ramping up and manufacturing the plane at a good price would have been easy
a) Bombardier may not have sold the program, b) there would have been more bidders, e.g. Mitsubishi c) Bombardier would not have to keep spending money on their present to Airbus.
Why Bombardier agreed to sell their stake in future back to Airbus is something I never understood. But I believe politics, and not the contract, will finally decide if Bombardier can keep their stake. I admit there is a high chance I'm wrong.

I guess Airbus is willing to accelerate manufacturing expansion once they figured how to produce cheaper. From which point in the learning curve is it advisable to hurry?


Why? BBD had to sell it at that price, somewhat the internal politics of BBD and Airbus, lots of connnections, but BBD couldn’t bring the plane to fruition alone.
 
alyusuph
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:39 pm

Would love to see the A220 in Bhutan!
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
wrongwayup
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:04 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
There is also the fact that ALC has a 50-aircraft order book for the BCS3. Any potential airlines looking at this could lease new frames from ALC for quicker delivery, such as Bangkok Airways, which leases mainline-sized aircraft but owns its turboprops, and this could replace both their A319s and A320s.


ALC's got an MOU, but it's not yet "firm". So if airlines want quicker deliveries and a lease solution they can work with Macquarie or another one of the lessors (LCI, Ilyushin, if either still has slots...)
 
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:17 pm

art wrote:
Not sure if this has been posted anywhere: Airbus Starts Building First A220s in Mobile

Airbus has begun manufacturing the A220 at its U.S. assembly site in Mobile, Alabama, the company announced Monday. The first team of A220 production workers began work at the plant following their recent return from on-the-job training in Mirabel, Quebec, site of the A220 program and primary final assembly line.


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... 20s-mobile


It is remarkable and impressive how fast they were able to do that. Wow.
 
T4thH
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:22 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
art wrote:
Not sure if this has been posted anywhere: Airbus Starts Building First A220s in Mobile

Airbus has begun manufacturing the A220 at its U.S. assembly site in Mobile, Alabama, the company announced Monday. The first team of A220 production workers began work at the plant following their recent return from on-the-job training in Mirabel, Quebec, site of the A220 program and primary final assembly line.


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... 20s-mobile


It is remarkable and impressive how fast they were able to do that. Wow.


https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1428585&p=21563691&hilit=Mobile#p21563691
 
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:47 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
There is also the fact that ALC has a 50-aircraft order book for the BCS3. Any potential airlines looking at this could lease new frames from ALC for quicker delivery, such as Bangkok Airways, which leases mainline-sized aircraft but owns its turboprops, and this could replace both their A319s and A320s.

The other US airline to watch for the BCS3 might be NK, as, while they have been buying their A319s as leases expire, the BCS3 is 7 tons lighter (although it would introduce a new model to their fleet). However, they could require enough frames to make economics of scale work, as they don't need all the range.

I overlooked this important fact. ALC has an incredible feel of the market.

Personally, the LCCs of Thailand and Korea are an opportunity waiting to happen. I would be shocked if an ALC executive wasn't on the tour as blended lease/buy or lease+sale leaseback deals seem to be becoming common.

Aeromexico, IAG, and Spirit are to he three known sales campaigns that would move the needle. But at some point the A220 needs more LCC sales. I haven't heard any rumors on EasyJet or FlyDubai for example.

Anyone know when ALC's slots are?

Lightsaber
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aemoreira1981
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:24 pm

lightsaber wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
There is also the fact that ALC has a 50-aircraft order book for the BCS3. Any potential airlines looking at this could lease new frames from ALC for quicker delivery, such as Bangkok Airways, which leases mainline-sized aircraft but owns its turboprops, and this could replace both their A319s and A320s.

The other US airline to watch for the BCS3 might be NK, as, while they have been buying their A319s as leases expire, the BCS3 is 7 tons lighter (although it would introduce a new model to their fleet). However, they could require enough frames to make economics of scale work, as they don't need all the range.

I overlooked this important fact. ALC has an incredible feel of the market.

Personally, the LCCs of Thailand and Korea are an opportunity waiting to happen. I would be shocked if an ALC executive wasn't on the tour as blended lease/buy or lease+sale leaseback deals seem to be becoming common.

Aeromexico, IAG, and Spirit are to he three known sales campaigns that would move the needle. But at some point the A220 needs more LCC sales. I haven't heard any rumors on EasyJet or FlyDubai for example.

Anyone know when ALC's slots are?

Lightsaber


From 2021 until 2026. All will be built on the YMX line. https://aviationweek.com/awincommercial ... -a220-300s
 
yyztpa2
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:25 pm

lightsaber wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
There is also the fact that ALC has a 50-aircraft order book for the BCS3. Any potential airlines looking at this could lease new frames from ALC for quicker delivery, such as Bangkok Airways, which leases mainline-sized aircraft but owns its turboprops, and this could replace both their A319s and A320s.

The other US airline to watch for the BCS3 might be NK, as, while they have been buying their A319s as leases expire, the BCS3 is 7 tons lighter (although it would introduce a new model to their fleet). However, they could require enough frames to make economics of scale work, as they don't need all the range.

I overlooked this important fact. ALC has an incredible feel of the market.

Personally, the LCCs of Thailand and Korea are an opportunity waiting to happen. I would be shocked if an ALC executive wasn't on the tour as blended lease/buy or lease+sale leaseback deals seem to be becoming common.

Aeromexico, IAG, and Spirit are to he three known sales campaigns that would move the needle. But at some point the A220 needs more LCC sales. I haven't heard any rumors on EasyJet or FlyDubai for example.

Anyone know when ALC's slots are?

Lightsaber

One could ask the same on the Macquarie slots. They have the 40 A223 and 20 A320N to market.
https://www.macquarie.com/us/corporate/ ... e/aircraft
 
T4thH
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:36 pm

I am a little bit surprised. Has no one regular followed up the Airbus A220-300 tour through Asia, ending 10 days ago, on Twitter e.g.?
Have I been the only one?
 
leghorn
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:25 pm

Azimuth showing interest reportedly.

http://www.rusaviainsider.com/russias-s ... -a220-300/
 
rrbsztk
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:42 pm

Nice to see Azimuth interested. They might be a great fit for STLC's 6 A220-300s. They currently lease all their SJ100s from them, and growing from 9+2 on order SJ100s to add 6 A220-300s seems reasonable.
 
T4thH
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:13 pm

leghorn wrote:
Azimuth showing interest reportedly.

http://www.rusaviainsider.com/russias-s ... -a220-300/

There were many more: in last month

1. The national airline group Ceo (Camair-Co) and the transport minister of Cameroon have been this week in Montreal and have visited the A220 FAL in Montreal. The airline Camair-Co has to modernize the fleet and shall grow... a signature for Airbus jets is next time can be expected, but the airline is in a financial not best position.
https://agencecamerounpresse.com/economie/entreprises/transport-a%C3%A9rien-camair-co-veut-il-se-tourner-vers-airbus.html Use the google Translator....
https://newsaero.info/airlines/-camair-co-prospecte-chez-airbus-intresse-par-la220?true=2192

2. LOT is looking for A350 and A220 (or E2 family)
http://aeronews.ro/lot-polish-airlines-ceo-with-a-good-offer-from-airbus-we-could-buy-a220-and-a350/

3. Turkish Airlines is looking at A220 and E195-E2
https://www.aerotelegraph.com/en/turkish-looking-at-a220-and-e195-e2

4. Azimuth Airlines, see link above.

5. Military arm. As anti-submarine and maritime patrol, A319/A320 MPA was planned as replacement for the Atlantic II and the P3-Orion. Seems, now also the A220 is part of the game or even has already won.
Use Google Translator: https://www.elconfidencial.com/empresas/2019-09-28/inversion-airbus-industria-avion-ingenieria_2249107/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=BotoneraWeb
Along with this, another project that has been working for a longer time, years, is to produce a military version of that same A320 in Getafe . It would have anti-submarine and maritime patrol capabilities (surveillance and reconnaissance). Well, according to the sources consulted, now it will be the A220 model and not the A320 that suits Defense uses . The A220 aircraft is the result of the incorporation to Airbus of the jets business of the Canadian group Bombardier, in 2018. The CSeries range was renamed A220, and is produced in Canada and, in the near future , in the US, in a new line of final assembly


6. During A220 Asia tour: The Ceo of the Malasia Airlines group (not Malaysia Airlines) was highly interested, They have got an additional show part.
https://twitter.com/PyanCGT/status/1157633435860492290
And that is the Malaysia Airline group Ceo:
https://twitter.com/PyanCGT/status/1157558064242814977
 
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:48 pm

Oh... LOT is interesting. So nothing firm, but multiple nibbles.

yyztpa2 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
There is also the fact that ALC has a 50-aircraft order book for the BCS3. Any potential airlines looking at this could lease new frames from ALC for quicker delivery, such as Bangkok Airways, which leases mainline-sized aircraft but owns its turboprops, and this could replace both their A319s and A320s.

The other US airline to watch for the BCS3 might be NK, as, while they have been buying their A319s as leases expire, the BCS3 is 7 tons lighter (although it would introduce a new model to their fleet). However, they could require enough frames to make economics of scale work, as they don't need all the range.

I overlooked this important fact. ALC has an incredible feel of the market.

Personally, the LCCs of Thailand and Korea are an opportunity waiting to happen. I would be shocked if an ALC executive wasn't on the tour as blended lease/buy or lease+sale leaseback deals seem to be becoming common.

Aeromexico, IAG, and Spirit are to he three known sales campaigns that would move the needle. But at some point the A220 needs more LCC sales. I haven't heard any rumors on EasyJet or FlyDubai for example.

Anyone know when ALC's slots are?

Lightsaber

One could ask the same on the Macquarie slots. They have the 40 A223 and 20 A320N to market.
https://www.macquarie.com/us/corporate/ ... e/aircraft

Macquarie seems to be buying many aircraft, but not yet a force. It seems, to me, they are entering the business.

Udvar-Hazy knows the business as he invented modern aircraft leasing! ALC is going to know demand and when to take a risk. Does Marquarie set up hotel suites to sell aircraft with the ALC vendors paying for suites to show off seats, galleys, and other fittings a month before airshows start?

I admit Macquarie's order book is impressive. Only about a hundred less than ALC. But ALC is#6 in aircraft Leasing. Macquarie isn't yet in the top 10:
https://www.mototok.com/blog/top-10-air ... -companies


Huh, not even enough aircraft on order to be the top 10. I'm glad the bought A220s, I wouldn't use them as an indicator of future demand.

Lightsaber
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tphuang
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:42 am

I don't know why A220 doesn't get more sales at this point.

I was doing some calculation based on what B6 has said about unit cost of A220-300 vs 100 seat E90, 150 seat A320 and 200 seat A321. It came out that an 140 seat A220-300 cost about the same to operate as a 100 seat E90, which means it's CASM is 30% lower than E90. Compared to 150 seat A320 or even 162 seat A320, it was a good 15% better. It's cost was almost as good as 200 seat A321 and 7 to 10% higher than 200 seat A321NEO. An a hypothetical 165 seat A220-500 would have roughly the same unit cost as A321NEO. That's very impressive considering the much fewer seat an airline would have to fill on A220. Are airlines just ignoring A220 because the maintenance cost for A320 expected to be a lot lower due to their large number in service?

Seems like Moxy being a single fleet A220 airline would have a huge cost advantage once it starts off. Why are AA and UA not looking at this plane to replace some of the A319 or B737s? I get that second hand A319 are probably dirt cheap at this point, but A220 seems to be pretty inexpensive too.
 
gokmengs
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:48 am

I am surprised that the possibility of an order from Turkey is not being discussed, I believe its the perfect plane for PC. Think off all the thin P2P’s they can start
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
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Polot
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:59 am

tphuang wrote:
I get that second hand A319 are probably dirt cheap at this point, but A220 seems to be pretty inexpensive too.

Well that’s the problem- right now “inexpensive” is not how I would describe the A220, although Airbus is working on it.
 
T4thH
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:58 pm

Mexican Airlines "InterJet" seems to be close to buying of 12x A220, to replace the SSJ100. As I have read, they are in big financial trouble regarding the SSJ100 Superjet fiasco, I am still surprised, that the SSJ100 order has not already wiped out Interjet. and I have my doubts, they will survive long enough, to take the A220 up. Let us hope the best for them.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-interjet/mexcios-interjet-close-to-buying-12-airbus-a220s-sources-idUSKBN1WJ18L
 
rrbsztk
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:25 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomb ... 220-planes

Ethiopian interested again in up to 20 maybe
 
T4thH
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:30 pm

And next, after the InterJet message today, few hours ago: new message regarding A220 order from Ethiopian Airlines, just few seconds ago:
Ethiopian Airlines Close to Deal to Order Airbus A220 Planes


20 A220, order to be signed till end of this year.
Ethiopian Airlines Group is close to agreeing a deal with Airbus SE for as many as 20 narrow-body A220 planes worth more than $1.6 billion, reviving an earlier plan after a spell using larger Boeing Co. 737s.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-04/ethiopian-airlines-close-to-deal-to-order-airbus-a220-planes
 
kimimm19
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:07 pm

With all these possible orders beginning to trickle in, I wonder if we see any sort of trend in regards to -100 vs -300...
 
T4thH
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:54 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
With all these possible orders beginning to trickle in, I wonder if we see any sort of trend in regards to -100 vs -300...

Pretty sure, there will be a strong trend in direction of the A220-300. But there will be always few orders for the A220-100 by airline, who will need the benefits of the -100 version, the ability to land and start on shorter airstrips and under hot and high conditions. As example Air Vanatu, they have ordered 2x -300 and 2x -100, because they will need some -100 for some of the airports during their island hopping. Without the -100, they would not have ordered the 2x -300, instead something else.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Something totally different: New China Tour is in schedule/in planning.
Airbus keen for A220 demonstration tour in China

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-keen-for-a220-demonstration-tour-in-china-460938/

After the A220 World Tour last year with the A220-300 from airBaltic (Zhuhai Airshow (China) 05 to 09-Nov-2018, Chengdu (China), 09-Nov-2018, Koh Samui (Thailand) 10-Nov-2018, Kathmandu (Nepal) 11-Nov-2018, Istanbul (Turkey), 12-Nov-2018 back to home airport on 14-Nov-2018.

There was an unofficial tour in Europe with one A220 from Swiss, booked by Airbus for a few days in spring, UK and the Scandinavia (Air France and IAG were there and others).

And of course the Asia Tour this year with the A220-300 prototype in Aug-2019. (unofficial first stop: Seoul’s Incheon Airport), Yangon (Myanmar), Hanoi (Vietnam), Bangkok (Thailand), Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia) and Nagoya (Japan) before back to Montreal.
 
T4thH
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:20 pm

Seems to be an interesting day today, seems someone is leaking many A220 information regarding orders now.
After today announced orders by InterJet and Ethiopian Airlines of A220...

Just to be stated as rumour, not confirmed, no legible source. only one well established Twitter source:
Rumour, that flybe/virgin connect for flybe on Tuesday will announce the order of 20x A220. We will see...
https://twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1180207933067579393

As we would not have two other legible announcements today, I would have not "mentioned" this one here.
 
jghealey
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:40 pm

T4thH wrote:
Seems to be an interesting day today, seems someone is leaking many A220 information regarding orders now.
After today announced orders by InterJet and Ethiopian Airlines of A220...

Just to be stated as rumour, not confirmed, no legible source. only one well established Twitter source:
Rumour, that flybe/virgin connect for flybe on Tuesday will announce the order of 20x A220. We will see...
https://twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1180207933067579393

As we would not have two other legible announcements today, I would have not "mentioned" this one here.
A Virgin A220 order could be very interesting - but where would they use them? They have had little success with the E195s and the A220 is a similar size... and LHR is very slot constrained so the A220 would seem a bit small for operations from there?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 
BrianDromey
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:55 pm

jghealey wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Seems to be an interesting day today, seems someone is leaking many A220 information regarding orders now.
After today announced orders by InterJet and Ethiopian Airlines of A220...

Just to be stated as rumour, not confirmed, no legible source. only one well established Twitter source:
Rumour, that flybe/virgin connect for flybe on Tuesday will announce the order of 20x A220. We will see...
https://twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1180207933067579393

As we would not have two other legible announcements today, I would have not "mentioned" this one here.
A Virgin A220 order could be very interesting - but where would they use them? They have had little success with the E195s and the A220 is a similar size... and LHR is very slot constrained so the A220 would seem a bit small for operations from there?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


I share your skepticism. But the Q400s that flyBe currently use into LHR aren't very "Virgin". Virgin will have real-life information from DL on the A220/320/737 which might sway the decision. It's interesting that flyBe never used their E195s at Heathrow. Either they were being put to better use elsewhere, which doesn't seem to be the case, or the Q400 was a better overall fit for the LHR ops - which suggests yield isn't as fantastic as might be imagined. As you say, why the A220 would be any better suited isn't clear. VS don't have a huge slot pool to play with - 20 seems like far too many aircraft just for LHR. Competition at MAN is tough with Ryanair, easyJet and Jet2 all having very large presence.
 
T4thH
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:10 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
jghealey wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Seems to be an interesting day today, seems someone is leaking many A220 information regarding orders now.
After today announced orders by InterJet and Ethiopian Airlines of A220...

Just to be stated as rumour, not confirmed, no legible source. only one well established Twitter source:
Rumour, that flybe/virgin connect for flybe on Tuesday will announce the order of 20x A220. We will see...
https://twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1180207933067579393

As we would not have two other legible announcements today, I would have not "mentioned" this one here.
A Virgin A220 order could be very interesting - but where would they use them? They have had little success with the E195s and the A220 is a similar size... and LHR is very slot constrained so the A220 would seem a bit small for operations from there?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


I share your skepticism. But the Q400s that flyBe currently use into LHR aren't very "Virgin". Virgin will have real-life information from DL on the A220/320/737 which might sway the decision. It's interesting that flyBe never used their E195s at Heathrow. Either they were being put to better use elsewhere, which doesn't seem to be the case, or the Q400 was a better overall fit for the LHR ops - which suggests yield isn't as fantastic as might be imagined. As you say, why the A220 would be any better suited isn't clear. VS don't have a huge slot pool to play with - 20 seems like far too many aircraft just for LHR. Competition at MAN is tough with Ryanair, easyJet and Jet2 all having very large presence.


Please do not mix it: Virgin connect (or correct Connect airways) is a group of owners, which has been formed to buy the regional airlines flybe. The owner of Connect Airways are: 30% Virgin Atlantic, 30% Stobart Aviation and 40% Cyrus Capital Partners. This owner group will buy (if this rumour is correct, do not forget it, it is still just only a rumour of a Twitter source.) the A220 for fkybe.
 
T4thH
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:39 pm

https://twitter.com/airportnewsMAN/status/1180207933067579393
The story seems to have been just as expected: only a rumour. The Tuesday is gone, no additional information. So it is dead.
 
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OA940
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:17 pm

https://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-d ... um=twitter

Air Austral/Air Madagascar just announced a joint order for 6, split equally between the two airlines. Or, more accurately, Austral has ordered theirs, and Madagascar is nearing a firm order.

So with Interjet and Ethiopian orders probably imminent, and so many more rumored orders, I assume airlines are paying more attention to the A220 now.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
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lightsaber
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:45 pm

OA940 wrote:
https://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-deliveries/air-austral-and-air-madagascar-order-airbus-a220s?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Air Austral/Air Madagascar just announced a joint order for 6, split equally between the two airlines. Or, more accurately, Austral has ordered theirs, and Madagascar is nearing a firm order.

So with Interjet and Ethiopian orders probably imminent, and so many more rumored orders, I assume airlines are paying more attention to the A220 now.

We have known campaigns at Ethiopian, Spirit, KE (top off) and AeroMexico. The A220 has potential.

I had wondered if we had another 717 in work. Instead, after the DL order, it has been steady progress.
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T4thH
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:00 pm

lightsaber wrote:
OA940 wrote:
https://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-deliveries/air-austral-and-air-madagascar-order-airbus-a220s?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Air Austral/Air Madagascar just announced a joint order for 6, split equally between the two airlines. Or, more accurately, Austral has ordered theirs, and Madagascar is nearing a firm order.

So with Interjet and Ethiopian orders probably imminent, and so many more rumored orders, I assume airlines are paying more attention to the A220 now.

We have known campaigns at Ethiopian, Spirit, KE (top off) and AeroMexico. The A220 has potential.

I had wondered if we had another 717 in work. Instead, after the DL order, it has been steady progress.

LOT and Turkish airways are missing. on this listing. They are now in discussion with Embraer and Airbus, so either E2 family or A220.
According A220 Asia tour: Malaysia Air Group are also interested....and many others have checked the A220 during the tour, but stayed "undisclosaed", with exception of one lessor in Japan, till now not involved in aircraft leasing. The former CEO Mitsubish air program was on board and is now working for them

EDIT: Let us do not forget Air Tanzania/Tanzanian government, who have already confirmed, to order two additional A223.
Also the Air France order is still not stated as firmed.
IAG is looking for their regional airline; but here I expect, the E190 E2 will be ordered with 100 seats regarding scope clauses.

Air France is additional looking for a replacement for their regional airline HOP!
Regarding national laws, to protect regional airlines, only jets with maximum 100 Pax are allowed.
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:37 pm

what is the seating capacity of the a220-100 in a 2 class config? I'm sure IAG cod order that and keep it under the 100 seat scope clause, no? or am i totally off the ball on that one?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: A220 sales tour and sales campaigns, 2019

Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:41 pm

T4thH wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
OA940 wrote:
https://atwonline.com/aircraft-orders-deliveries/air-austral-and-air-madagascar-order-airbus-a220s?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Air Austral/Air Madagascar just announced a joint order for 6, split equally between the two airlines. Or, more accurately, Austral has ordered theirs, and Madagascar is nearing a firm order.

So with Interjet and Ethiopian orders probably imminent, and so many more rumored orders, I assume airlines are paying more attention to the A220 now.

We have known campaigns at Ethiopian, Spirit, KE (top off) and AeroMexico. The A220 has potential.

I had wondered if we had another 717 in work. Instead, after the DL order, it has been steady progress.

LOT and Turkish airways are missing. on this listing. They are now in discussion with Embraer and Airbus, so either E2 family or A220.
According A220 Asia tour: Malaysia Air Group are also interested....and many others have checked the A220 during the tour, but stayed "undisclosaed", with exception of one lessor in Japan, till now not involved in aircraft leasing. The former CEO Mitsubish air program was on board and is now working for them

EDIT: Let us do not forget Air Tanzania/Tanzanian government, who have already confirmed, to order two additional A223.
Also the Air France order is still not stated as firmed.
IAG is looking for their regional airline; but here I expect, the E190 E2 will be ordered with 100 seats regarding scope clauses.

Air France is additional looking for a replacement for their regional airline HOP!
Regarding national laws, to protect regional airlines, only jets with maximum 100 Pax are allowed.

Turkish would be a nice win for either. It sounds as if both A220/E2 are being seriously considered:

https://www.airway1.com/turkish-airline ... s-e2-jets/

When searching for LOT, I didn't find any links I could take seriously for the A220. That seems to be a campaign for Embraer to lose. But as with JetBlue, stranger things have happened.

As to HOP, we could see E2-190 or an capped A220-100.

Lightsaber
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