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LAXintl
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Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:47 pm

Newly formed U.S carrier seeking DOT certificate of public convenience and foreign transportation authority.

Established in 2018 in Tampa, Sky Palace Airways says it seeks to launch passenger charter and ACMI operations in 2020 using pair of 777-200ER aircraft seating approximately 400. Carrier says it has negotiated the purchase of planned frames for $11.5mil each.
The company says it seeks to offer both short term sub-service capacity and longer-term fixed flying contracts for tour operator and religious Hadj/Umrah capacity.

It estimated aircraft will be utilized about 150 hours per month.

FAA operating cert application was submitted in March 2019 and now needs the DOT economic authority to proceed.

OST-2019-0109
Last edited by LAXintl on Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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airportugal310
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:05 pm

A 777 with 400 seats is hardly a "palace", but more power to them
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commpilot
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:31 pm

Bring back Sky King with a King sized plane?
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:37 pm

It does seem that there is a lack of widebody charter lift with only Atlas, National, and Omni providing options. It is hilarious how practically every charter op is based in Florida.
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:37 am

What a horrible name for an airline! Sounds like some sketchy Asian charter.
 
travaz
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:40 am

This will be interesting to watch.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:44 am

Good luck to them.
 
JohnAudiR18
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:02 am

Good luck, though wouldn't a plane that is a "Sky Palace" should have at worst domestic first class seating?
 
Antarius
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:02 am

airportugal310 wrote:
A 777 with 400 seats is hardly a "palace", but more power to them


My thoughts exactly.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:05 am

150 hours a month equates to about 3-4 hours a day. But that said, I would say that such could be handled by existing operators, especially if Eastern (2D) actually put its ex-KQ B772 into service. While there is a lack of wide-body charter capacity, right now, the only passenger charter airlines with it are making hay with the MAX grounding or have military contracts. This is where it might make more sense for an existing operator such as KD to branch out into charter passenger operations, although there may not be too many GE-powered planes for KD to acquire (KD only flies GE-powered planes)---that ex-KQ B772 is available though.

As for the B777-200ER, the exit door limit is 400, but I have yet to see anyone exceed 393 seats (Jin Air is Y393).
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:09 am

airportugal310 wrote:
A 777 with 400 seats is hardly a "palace", but more power to them

Considering the name, they should have gone for the A380 which operators are letting go left and right. They might chance upon a bargain. :twocents:
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lammified
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:35 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the B777-200ER, the exit door limit is 400, but I have yet to see anyone exceed 393 seats (Jin Air is Y393).


Actually the exit door limit on the B772 is 440.. Scoot operated 402 seat B772s in 32J370Y, and Nokscoot operates its B772s with 415 seats, 24J391Y.
 
na
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:47 am

400 seats in a 77E. And they call it a Palace? Well, if so, then its a palace taken over by the communists;-)
 
TheEuphorian
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:55 am

Where are they gonna source the 77E?
 
steeler83
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:37 am

lammified wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the B777-200ER, the exit door limit is 400, but I have yet to see anyone exceed 393 seats (Jin Air is Y393).


Actually the exit door limit on the B772 is 440.. Scoot operated 402 seat B772s in 32J370Y, and Nokscoot operates its B772s with 415 seats, 24J391Y.

As I recall, the 772 was considered a direct replacement for the DC10/MD11 equipment which had a seating capacity of about 400. Yet, airlines that ran those birds equipped them with 250-350 seats depending on configuration.

I'm wondering what kind of routes this airline plans on running.
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SCFlyer
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:41 am

I know it's early days, but will this end up to be another "Baltia?" (aka USGlobal).
 
na
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:30 pm

TheEuphorian wrote:
Where are they gonna source the 77E?


There is no shortage of jobless 77Es around the world. If they want good ones, for example SQ is retiring their subfleet and about every 2 months at average one has to go.
 
AirwayBill
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:34 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
What a horrible name for an airline! Sounds like some sketchy Asian charter.


Indeed, the kind of name a generic Chinese restaurant with the $9.99 all-you-can-eat buffet option could bear.
 
VC10er
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:36 pm

I who know nothing about charter airlines: On the surface, to me, between DL, AA, UA, WN, JetBlue and others that the USA doesn’t need to have these kinds of carriers that Europe has.
If so, I don’t see why a Southwest or JetBlue couldn’t get some 787s or A330’s and extend their networks to accommodate as European charters do, or offer a Norwegian style service to Europe, South America and maybe Asia?
I know many Americans who love Norwegian because it’s inexpensive and just fine to London or wherever. I haven’t flown them yet, I’ve never flown charter. But question #1 is; is there really an untapped need in the USA market in the USA this?

As a teenager I flew PeopleExpress a few times to London Gatwick, $99 each way and pay on board. I presume there are very good reasons why the USA doesn’t do this much. Is it really to take a bunch of passengers to meet a cruise ship?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:59 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
A 777 with 400 seats is hardly a "palace", but more power to them


Not just a 777, a 77E. How is it possible to put 400 seats in that plane?
Last edited by flyingclrs727 on Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:16 pm

They should change the name to SkyHovel or ShyFavela.
 
Coexstud
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:29 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
What a horrible name for an airline! Sounds like some sketchy Asian charter.

Or Nigerian prince
 
OB1504
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:34 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
150 hours a month equates to about 3-4 hours a day. But that said, I would say that such could be handled by existing operators, especially if Eastern (2D) actually put its ex-KQ B772 into service. While there is a lack of wide-body charter capacity, right now, the only passenger charter airlines with it are making hay with the MAX grounding or have military contracts. This is where it might make more sense for an existing operator such as KD to branch out into charter passenger operations, although there may not be too many GE-powered planes for KD to acquire (KD only flies GE-powered planes)---that ex-KQ B772 is available though.

As for the B777-200ER, the exit door limit is 400, but I have yet to see anyone exceed 393 seats (Jin Air is Y393).


When did Eastern get a 777? Considering that they can barely keep their 767s in the air, I’m not holding my breath.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:55 pm

VC10er wrote:
If so, I don’t see why a Southwest or JetBlue couldn’t get some 787s or A330’s and extend their networks to accommodate as European charters do, or offer a Norwegian style service to Europe, South America and maybe Asia?


WN and B6 could, and don't. We haven't seen much evidence that Norwegian has found a sustainable (meaning: profitable) business model, either.

Good luck to Sky Palace - they're going to need it.
 
MO11
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:28 am

Well, at least Robert Fleming will get to be president of another airline.
Last edited by MO11 on Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:36 am

steeler83 wrote:
lammified wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

As for the B777-200ER, the exit door limit is 400, but I have yet to see anyone exceed 393 seats (Jin Air is Y393).


Actually the exit door limit on the B772 is 440.. Scoot operated 402 seat B772s in 32J370Y, and Nokscoot operates its B772s with 415 seats, 24J391Y.

As I recall, the 772 was considered a direct replacement for the DC10/MD11 equipment which had a seating capacity of about 400. Yet, airlines that ran those birds equipped them with 250-350 seats depending on configuration.

I'm wondering what kind of routes this airline plans on running.

ACMI, so I assume they will compete with Atlas for Mil charter and sub services.
With the current frames shortage, thier is a market for this.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:48 am

VC10er wrote:
I who know nothing about charter airlines: On the surface, to me, between DL, AA, UA, WN, JetBlue and others that the USA doesn’t need to have these kinds of carriers that Europe has.
If so, I don’t see why a Southwest or JetBlue couldn’t get some 787s or A330’s and extend their networks to accommodate as European charters do, or offer a Norwegian style service to Europe, South America and maybe Asia?
I know many Americans who love Norwegian because it’s inexpensive and just fine to London or wherever. I haven’t flown them yet, I’ve never flown charter. But question #1 is; is there really an untapped need in the USA market in the USA this?

As a teenager I flew PeopleExpress a few times to London Gatwick, $99 each way and pay on board. I presume there are very good reasons why the USA doesn’t do this much. Is it really to take a bunch of passengers to meet a cruise ship?

years ago charter airlines in the USA operated 747-100's and -200;s with up to 515 seats on them So having a 777-200ER is not a stretch of imagination. My question is?
Where do they find the cockpit crews? And deeper still? The Maintenance??
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:09 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
A 777 with 400 seats is hardly a "palace", but more power to them


Not just a 777, a 77E. How is it possible to put 400 seats in that plane?

If you can squeeze in 440 people in an A330 (460 for a neo), I don't see how it cannot be done for a 777.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:14 pm

Update from DOT filing this week.

> Target June 2020 launch pending route proving and FAA certification
> Agreed to acquire 3 used Rolls Royce 777-200ERs from BAHC (Boeing). 2 ready for delivery summer 2020, 3rd Q1 2021 following C-check
> Plan to offer ACMI and charter service in 380-seat configuration
> Raised $16.2mil from investors as of Dec 31 2019.

OST-2019-0109
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Armodeen
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:23 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
What a horrible name for an airline! Sounds like some sketchy Asian charter.


Nigerian you mean!

ACMI operator...yeah maybe! They could do ok out of it. Aircraft were cheap enough!
 
zkncj
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:02 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
A 777 with 400 seats is hardly a "palace", but more power to them


Not just a 777, a 77E. How is it possible to put 400 seats in that plane?

If you can squeeze in 440 people in an A330 (460 for a neo), I don't see how it cannot be done for a 777.


Scoot used to have around 414 on there 77E’s so it’s do-able in an 3-4-3 config in all Y.
 
Interflug74
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:35 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
A 777 with 400 seats is hardly a "palace", but more power to them


Not just a 777, a 77E. How is it possible to put 400 seats in that plane?


plus the place where they can lite up their brought along gas cookers
 
strfyr51
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:54 pm

VC10er wrote:
I who know nothing about charter airlines: On the surface, to me, between DL, AA, UA, WN, JetBlue and others that the USA doesn’t need to have these kinds of carriers that Europe has.
If so, I don’t see why a Southwest or JetBlue couldn’t get some 787s or A330’s and extend their networks to accommodate as European charters do, or offer a Norwegian style service to Europe, South America and maybe Asia?
I know many Americans who love Norwegian because it’s inexpensive and just fine to London or wherever. I haven’t flown them yet, I’ve never flown charter. But question #1 is; is there really an untapped need in the USA market in the USA this?

As a teenager I flew PeopleExpress a few times to London Gatwick, $99 each way and pay on board. I presume there are very good reasons why the USA doesn’t do this much. Is it really to take a bunch of passengers to meet a cruise ship?

THE USA had many charter companies. Ports of Call. Ryan International, Air National. USA1, Evergreen Airlines, Transamerica, World Airways, Rich International and more. They flew everything form the DC8-62 thru the 747. When the -100 & -200 747's fell by the wayside and the DC8's went away there were a shortage of airplanes available and affordable to use for charter operations. So Now? the 777 is the new charter kid in the block. and? it's about time. I cut my teeth working charters as it was the transport category airplane I needed to gain experience on to get a job at a major and so that's what I did before working at United for 33+ years and retiring. The only trouble is? The rules have changed. ETOPS is not a joke and VERY stringent in that Engine Performance will have to be monitored closely and ETOPS parts will have to be maintained along with the ETOPS proceedures followed. It will take good operators to follow the rules and if they don't want to or can't afford to follow the rules? They might not be operating very long.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:01 pm

VC10er wrote:
I who know nothing about charter airlines: On the surface, to me, between DL, AA, UA, WN, JetBlue and others that the USA doesn’t need to have these kinds of carriers that Europe has.
If so, I don’t see why a Southwest or JetBlue couldn’t get some 787s or A330’s and extend their networks to accommodate as European charters do, or offer a Norwegian style service to Europe, South America and maybe Asia?
I know many Americans who love Norwegian because it’s inexpensive and just fine to London or wherever. I haven’t flown them yet, I’ve never flown charter. But question #1 is; is there really an untapped need in the USA market in the USA this?

As a teenager I flew PeopleExpress a few times to London Gatwick, $99 each way and pay on board. I presume there are very good reasons why the USA doesn’t do this much. Is it really to take a bunch of passengers to meet a cruise ship?

Southwest and Jet Blue could fly those airplanes tomorrow if they chose to I have no doubt. However? That's not in either of their business models (At the Moment) Could they? Without a doubt! But Jet Blue needs more stuff than that to truly become a trunk carrier. Southwest? They just really have to want to as I think they can do it if only they have to will to want to do it. They have the network already. though they might need some mechanics as it might take a few more than they have already.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:06 pm

MO11 wrote:
Well, at least Robert Fleming will get to be president of another airline.

Is Bob Fleming still alive? He wasn in his '50's when I was working charters back in 1981-84 and that was MANY moons ago. Just like Emma Rich or the Zantop Brothers
 
strfyr51
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:14 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
A 777 with 400 seats is hardly a "palace", but more power to them[/quote
Not just a 777, a 77E. How is it possible to put 400 seats in that plane?

the 777 can take nearly as many coach seats as the main deck of a 747. And on the 747 the main deck could take up to 475 sets in an all coach configuration. and 515 to 525 all in.
so I'm almost sure the 777 -200 /ER can take 400 seats on the main deck in an all coach configuration with 28-29" pitch.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:32 pm

Ok...

First, if there were any kind of serious demand for profitable ACMI passenger service (virtually nonexistent in the US) or passenger charter (see below) in 777s that exceeds what's available today, Omni would have added a 777 or two and serviced it. And Omni, unlike these guys, has military contracts to sustain it in the slow times. Omni has no trouble getting pilots owing to its pretty-good contract and good employee relations, and they have easy access to capital, aircraft, and technical know-how, both on a standalone basis and through their parent ATSG. 150 hours per month is 10 15-hour round-trips, assuming that they're using the 777 for its legs. Sounds ambitious.

Second, the reason we don't have the breadth of passenger charter carriers that we used to in the US is that the cruise air charter business is gone. Kaput. Cruise lines used to keep the likes of World (and Capitol and many lesser carriers) relatively-busy shuttling Cruisers to and from ports en masse. No more. Now they put people on scheduled carriers, or they leave it to the Cruisers to get themselves to the port of departure. People like flying on an airline in which they have confidence. And Cruisers come from everywhere, so why just charter a plane from, say, NYC? Same thing with vacation packages -- whereas Apple Air, Air 2000 and the like used to work for vacation packagers, for the most part charter air isn't part of it anymore. Allegiant of course does vacation packages, and puts people on its own "name" scheduled carrier, not charters. And nobody goes to the travel agent to book a vacation anymore, either, so the opportunity to pay big commissions to a local travel agent to drive business to the packagers has also dried up.

Maybe the investors have an inside scoop that we're not aware of, but in general this looks like a doomed-to-fail plan. At least they're moving forward.

Third, regarding the name. Some people just have no ability to pick names. Did you know that the Atlanta Ritz-Carlton was originally going to be called the Monarch? That would have been the chain name. One is classy, rooted in history. The other is a name picked by a non-classy bunch who was trying to sound classy. I get kind of the same vibe here.
 
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janders
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:05 pm

Yes, their name sounds more like a fake movie airline name.

Being frames with Rolls Royce engines anyone has a clue whose ex frames these will be?
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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Polot
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:13 pm

janders wrote:
Yes, their name sounds more like a fake movie airline name.

Being frames with Rolls Royce engines anyone has a clue whose ex frames these will be?

I’m guessing exSQ. Boeing was said to be offering exSQ 77Es to LOT as well.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:14 pm

Yes, most likely former SQ frames which Boeing Capital own. Last I saw they had 5 on hand with one leased to Air NZ.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
majano
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:06 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Update from DOT filing this week.

> Target June 2020 launch pending route proving and FAA certification
> Agreed to acquire 3 used Rolls Royce 777-200ERs from BAHC (Boeing). 2 ready for delivery summer 2020, 3rd Q1 2021 following C-check
> Plan to offer ACMI and charter service in 380-seat configuration
> Raised $16.2mil from investors as of Dec 31 2019.

OST-2019-0109

Good to see that the entrepreneurs are determined and making decent progress. ACMI and charter operations are not the same. A certain Portuguese ACMI operator seems to be doing ok, so my best wishes to the Sky Palace.
 
SkyVoice
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:56 am

They should hire me to do their audio & video ads for them! SkyVoice here for Sky Palace!

Seriously, since this startup is to be based at Tampa International Airport (TPA), I wonder if anyone behind Sky Palace was also behind the proposed-but-never-realized Crystal Airways, which was also supposed to be based at TPA. Their website was up for years & years back in the 90s & 2000s.
"Your talents may take you where your character can not keep you." - Terry Nelson
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:32 am

strfyr51 wrote:
THE USA had many charter companies. Ports of Call. Ryan International, Air National. USA1, Evergreen Airlines, Transamerica, World Airways, Rich International and more.

Thank you for that small list - brings back great memories... But I never heard of an operator called USA1. Can you share some more details?

Regarding the name: it‘ll be ACMI and charter. Isn’t the name more or less irrelevant? For example HiFly: I guess 99% of their passengers do not even know their name.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:20 am

N14AZ wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
THE USA had many charter companies. Ports of Call. Ryan International, Air National. USA1, Evergreen Airlines, Transamerica, World Airways, Rich International and more.

I never heard of an operator called USA1. Can you share some more details?


He might mean USA3000. That's what I meant when I erroneously said Air 2000.
 
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ssteve
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:03 pm

So, all economy 777-200ER:

What's the pitch at 10 abreast all economy? Probably not too bad, since here you're not cramming the back to make the front palatial.
What's the seat count and pitch at 9-abreast all economy? Close to 400, right?

So what's better, the legroom or the shoulder space?
 
Charters737
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Re: Latest U.S. start up - Sky Palace Airways using 777s

Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:05 pm

ssteve wrote:
So, all economy 777-200ER:

What's the pitch at 10 abreast all economy? Probably not too bad, since here you're not cramming the back to make the front palatial.
What's the seat count and pitch at 9-abreast all economy? Close to 400, right?

So what's better, the legroom or the shoulder space?
IIRC Omni have 381 Y seats in 3-4-3 in their B772s (obviously this can be changed for a contract)

Hopefully these guys will be talking to likes on Omni, just in case one of their B772s goes U/S.

IIRC Omni has 3 x B772s all ex Kenyan Airways + some B762ER & some B763ERs.

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Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos