Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
LVISA wrote:They also had DC-8's, (-62's if memory serves). I flew with them a couple of times from NYC to Miami in the late 70's and they were great! Cheaper than Eastern and every passenger was offered a bubbly drink, (mimosa or champagne I believe), before departure. My son and daughter flew with them years later in the 747's and service at the airport and on board had badly deteriorated by then. Too bad, loved seeing the planes in JFK and MIA.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:I’ve known or met a bunch Tower Air guys. When they were just doing charter, they had a nice niche-6 or so 747s doing Haji, DOD and on-offs where the customer needed a 747. One captain on my J/S at EAL had just taken a oil exploration team to RAF Mount Pleasant, FI. That sort of stuff. Another guy in my squadron said that a normal 121 pilot wouldn’t last a week. His second trip was to North Korea for the UN; then Haj work out of Jeddah. They did flood relief in Mozambique hauling aid workers.
Then, the kid tried scheduled flying and lost the operation. Scheduled 747 is hard and the old TW and PA planes were a maintenance nightmare. Lots of LLBG during the second intifada. One of their guys said it was a entertaining to bet on the bus explosions. Several are now at DL. I met a purser on a NW flight who said he’d never have left if it stayed in business—fun work and great crews. The pilot contract paid pretty well but you worked for it.
MR27122 wrote:I flew Tower in late 90's LAX-JFK. I recall paying a price equal to other's on the route "economy" fare for Tower "First Class". If my recall is correct, they flew ought of the LAX International Terminal. Uneventful & unexceptional. The seat's were large "relic"-era First Class seats. The "meal" was in a silver TV-dinner like foil container & was like carrots/peas/chicken/brown sauce (it was more about color contrast---Orange-Green-White-Brown---than taste!!). The only noteworthy "recollect" was the JFK Terminal. It was mid April (...and it can/will get cold in NYC in April..). The "terminal"---it was more like an indiscreet windowless square building was chaotic. It had a crush of people due to a delay or something & even with all those people it was frigid inside. I think the Tower "terminal" wasn't even referred to as a "terminal"---it was like Building 8 our something. It was striking in so much as, if you were to picture a totally indiscreet building for a larger "anchor" store in a low level strip-mall...It'd be identical to the Tower Air JFK "building" as long as you made the ceilings all of 8' high. Exiting the "building" my fiance was right in front...but before we zipped away...I noticed a taxi-line with like 30-40pax, like 4 taxi's in total, & nobody coordinating the queue...in other words, chaotic!
millionsofmiles wrote:MR27122 wrote:I flew Tower in late 90's LAX-JFK. I recall paying a price equal to other's on the route "economy" fare for Tower "First Class". If my recall is correct, they flew ought of the LAX International Terminal. Uneventful & unexceptional. The seat's were large "relic"-era First Class seats. The "meal" was in a silver TV-dinner like foil container & was like carrots/peas/chicken/brown sauce (it was more about color contrast---Orange-Green-White-Brown---than taste!!). The only noteworthy "recollect" was the JFK Terminal. It was mid April (...and it can/will get cold in NYC in April..). The "terminal"---it was more like an indiscreet windowless square building was chaotic. It had a crush of people due to a delay or something & even with all those people it was frigid inside. I think the Tower "terminal" wasn't even referred to as a "terminal"---it was like Building 8 our something. It was striking in so much as, if you were to picture a totally indiscreet building for a larger "anchor" store in a low level strip-mall...It'd be identical to the Tower Air JFK "building" as long as you made the ceilings all of 8' high. Exiting the "building" my fiance was right in front...but before we zipped away...I noticed a taxi-line with like 30-40pax, like 4 taxi's in total, & nobody coordinating the queue...in other words, chaotic!
How is a building “indiscreet”?
MR27122 wrote:millionsofmiles wrote:MR27122 wrote:I flew Tower in late 90's LAX-JFK. I recall paying a price equal to other's on the route "economy" fare for Tower "First Class". If my recall is correct, they flew ought of the LAX International Terminal. Uneventful & unexceptional. The seat's were large "relic"-era First Class seats. The "meal" was in a silver TV-dinner like foil container & was like carrots/peas/chicken/brown sauce (it was more about color contrast---Orange-Green-White-Brown---than taste!!). The only noteworthy "recollect" was the JFK Terminal. It was mid April (...and it can/will get cold in NYC in April..). The "terminal"---it was more like an indiscreet windowless square building was chaotic. It had a crush of people due to a delay or something & even with all those people it was frigid inside. I think the Tower "terminal" wasn't even referred to as a "terminal"---it was like Building 8 our something. It was striking in so much as, if you were to picture a totally indiscreet building for a larger "anchor" store in a low level strip-mall...It'd be identical to the Tower Air JFK "building" as long as you made the ceilings all of 8' high. Exiting the "building" my fiance was right in front...but before we zipped away...I noticed a taxi-line with like 30-40pax, like 4 taxi's in total, & nobody coordinating the queue...in other words, chaotic!
How is a building “indiscreet”?
It wasn't, my bad. Composed quickly....inconspicuous. It was a "just" a building @ JFK w/ a "Tower Air" referenced on like a single road sign & was prior to the central airport & airline terminals. On the LAX end I figured we'd be bused out to a remote stand....we weren't, plane was @ a gate.
BravoOne wrote:The one pilot I worked with from Tower just checked out at UPS on the 747-8 about 9 months ago. Tragically he fell off the docks in Seattle this winter while boarding his boat down by the locks in Seattle, hit his head and drowned. Only 50 years old. Really tragic. He had flown 747 Captain at Tower before turning 30.
Someone tossed Seaboard into the same category as Tower. I don't think so since they had been around for many years and for the most part flew only the latest equipment. Also worth noting is Seabaord, never had a fatal accident, and was the first US airline to hire a black pilot, (August "Auggie" Martin) back in the early 50's
I have to wonder about former Irainian 747 Captains at Tower as the owner was Jewish and a devoted defender of the Jewish state. Maybe, but?
I flew a lot of MAC charters during the 67/68 time frame. World, TIA, FTL, SWA, ONA, CAL, BNF, Capitol, and Pan Am to name a few, were the power players in the MAC charter business in those days. Tower would have been a player had they been around.
DDR wrote:I remember hearing stories about the police having to be called because of near rioting in the Tower Air "terminal" because of delayed and canceled flights. Does anyone know if this true, or just urban legend? Also, does anyone have pics of the JFK hanger/terminal that Tower used?
GalaxyFlyer wrote:BravoOne wrote:The one pilot I worked with from Tower just checked out at UPS on the 747-8 about 9 months ago. Tragically he fell off the docks in Seattle this winter while boarding his boat down by the locks in Seattle, hit his head and drowned. Only 50 years old. Really tragic. He had flown 747 Captain at Tower before turning 30.
Someone tossed Seaboard into the same category as Tower. I don't think so since they had been around for many years and for the most part flew only the latest equipment. Also worth noting is Seabaord, never had a fatal accident, and was the first US airline to hire a black pilot, (August "Auggie" Martin) back in the early 50's
I have to wonder about former Irainian 747 Captains at Tower as the owner was Jewish and a devoted defender of the Jewish state. Maybe, but?
I flew a lot of MAC charters during the 67/68 time frame. World, TIA, FTL, SWA, ONA, CAL, BNF, Capitol, and Pan Am to name a few, were the power players in the MAC charter business in those days. Tower would have been a player had they been around.
My understanding from friends was they needed the work and had the skills. Iran has a significant Jewish population at one and their experience was very valuable. The owner was an Iraqi Jew, so clearly he understood the ME.
That aside, the stereotype of Jews and Muslims inside of ME is a more modern construct. I’m down in Florida moving my mother into assisted living. For many years she worked for a Polish Jew who lived in Palestine before and during WW II, even was an officer in the IDF during 1948. None of that prevented him from smuggling across the Sinai into Egypt. His son and I shared some old stories of dad the other night. Sparked up mom to remember Joe.
GF
DDR wrote:I remember hearing stories about the police having to be called because of near rioting in the Tower Air "terminal" because of delayed and canceled flights. Does anyone know if this true, or just urban legend? Also, does anyone have pics of the JFK hanger/terminal that Tower used?
LAXffDUB wrote:MR27122 wrote:millionsofmiles wrote:
How is a building “indiscreet”?
It wasn't, my bad. Composed quickly....inconspicuous. It was a "just" a building @ JFK w/ a "Tower Air" referenced on like a single road sign & was prior to the central airport & airline terminals. On the LAX end I figured we'd be bused out to a remote stand....we weren't, plane was @ a gate.
Their "terminal" was not part of the regular complex (T1-T8). It was on the edge of the airport property near the cargo hangers of other carriers. My experiences passing through it in the early 90s could only be described as ranging from organized chaos to outright anarchy. At the time I couldn't help but think of the impression that maelstrom left on arriving passengers as they saw signs welcoming them to NY!
wmblanco wrote:They served GRU for a time.
DLBOIFIN wrote:I flew with them in December 1990 from Helsinki to Miami and back for two weeks pre-Christmas family vacation in Florida. I remember the 747's being pretty outdated already then and on the return flight there was this chiming sound in the cabin during the take-off roll. The crew was super nice and there was plenty of food and drinks available so I only have good memories from these flights.
millionsofmiles wrote:LAXffDUB wrote:MR27122 wrote:
It wasn't, my bad. Composed quickly....inconspicuous. It was a "just" a building @ JFK w/ a "Tower Air" referenced on like a single road sign & was prior to the central airport & airline terminals. On the LAX end I figured we'd be bused out to a remote stand....we weren't, plane was @ a gate.
Their "terminal" was not part of the regular complex (T1-T8). It was on the edge of the airport property near the cargo hangers of other carriers. My experiences passing through it in the early 90s could only be described as ranging from organized chaos to outright anarchy. At the time I couldn't help but think of the impression that maelstrom left on arriving passengers as they saw signs welcoming them to NY!
Unfortunately, you lack the historical depth to know that the early 1970s (1970-1972) “Pan Am Terminal 2” was NOT in the central terminal area but was attached to Pan Am’s hangar complex.
The circa 1970-1972 “Pan Am Terminal 2” was, in fact , the building which became the Tower Air Terminal.
A little more attention to detail when you are reading might be helpful. I specifically stated that the early 1970s “Pan Am Terminal 2” was not in the central terminal area, but you apparently missed that in your zeal to try to correct something that was not wrong.
Tower Air's main base of scheduled operations was John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York.[5] In the mid-1980s, the airline operated from the British Airways terminal at JFK (now Terminal 7).[6] In the early 1990s, it operated from the former Eastern terminal. In 1993, Tower Air renovated and expanded Building 213, a former Pan Am hangar, to serve as its dedicated JFK terminal, adding three finger gates in 1995.
Cointrin330 wrote:Tower Air was based at JFK Airport and flew 747 classics (inherited from Pan Am and TWA). It flew out of a dilapidated, dedicated terminal in the cargo area, and served I think LAX, SFO, LAS, BRU, CDG, TLV, SDQ, SJU, and also operated military charters. Tired, old planes (very old) and a spotty reputation for service and punctuality.
MR27122 wrote:millionsofmiles wrote:LAXffDUB wrote:
Their "terminal" was not part of the regular complex (T1-T8). It was on the edge of the airport property near the cargo hangers of other carriers. My experiences passing through it in the early 90s could only be described as ranging from organized chaos to outright anarchy. At the time I couldn't help but think of the impression that maelstrom left on arriving passengers as they saw signs welcoming them to NY!
Unfortunately, you lack the historical depth to know that the early 1970s (1970-1972) “Pan Am Terminal 2” was NOT in the central terminal area but was attached to Pan Am’s hangar complex.
The circa 1970-1972 “Pan Am Terminal 2” was, in fact , the building which became the Tower Air Terminal.
A little more attention to detail when you are reading might be helpful. I specifically stated that the early 1970s “Pan Am Terminal 2” was not in the central terminal area, but you apparently missed that in your zeal to try to correct something that was not wrong.
Nothing like a good 'ole Tower Air JFK terminal discussion that get's personal!! Unfortunately, "historical depth" isn't the topic....& the only date reference is "early 90". In your "zeal" to respond (correct/attack?)----you failed to note that the first 2 sentences are absolute fact & the remainder of the post is rooted in personal recollection/sentiments/perception.
Per WikiTower Air's main base of scheduled operations was John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York.[5] In the mid-1980s, the airline operated from the British Airways terminal at JFK (now Terminal 7).[6] In the early 1990s, it operated from the former Eastern terminal. In 1993, Tower Air renovated and expanded Building 213, a former Pan Am hangar, to serve as its dedicated JFK terminal, adding three finger gates in 1995.
If your objective is absolute historical precision....I don't know when the "early 90's" (1990-?) transition to the "mid 90's"(1995-?). Unfortunately, until you source it otherwise---No reference is made to Pan Am pre 1993, only BA & EA. My personal recall was that the 1993 renovated/expanded Tower Air JFK Terminal was so inconspicuous it lacked Airline Signage to the degree that only a green w/ white letter road-side sign existed w/ "Tower Air" & an arrow for the turn-off to the 1993 "new" Terminal b/c the "building" was so far from the perimeter of primary JFK Terminals (i.e. The '93 Tower Terminal was before the first airline specific terminal signage @ JFK...which I believe was for the AA Terminal).
GalaxyFlyer wrote:DDR wrote:I remember hearing stories about the police having to be called because of near rioting in the Tower Air "terminal" because of delayed and canceled flights. Does anyone know if this true, or just urban legend? Also, does anyone have pics of the JFK hanger/terminal that Tower used?
I heard similar stories from a F/A that worked for them. Maybe embellished, but mostly true.
millionsofmiles wrote:MR27122 wrote:millionsofmiles wrote:
Unfortunately, you lack the historical depth to know that the early 1970s (1970-1972) “Pan Am Terminal 2” was NOT in the central terminal area but was attached to Pan Am’s hangar complex.
The circa 1970-1972 “Pan Am Terminal 2” was, in fact , the building which became the Tower Air Terminal.
A little more attention to detail when you are reading might be helpful. I specifically stated that the early 1970s “Pan Am Terminal 2” was not in the central terminal area, but you apparently missed that in your zeal to try to correct something that was not wrong.
Nothing like a good 'ole Tower Air JFK terminal discussion that get's personal!! Unfortunately, "historical depth" isn't the topic....& the only date reference is "early 90". In your "zeal" to respond (correct/attack?)----you failed to note that the first 2 sentences are absolute fact & the remainder of the post is rooted in personal recollection/sentiments/perception.
Per WikiTower Air's main base of scheduled operations was John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York.[5] In the mid-1980s, the airline operated from the British Airways terminal at JFK (now Terminal 7).[6] In the early 1990s, it operated from the former Eastern terminal. In 1993, Tower Air renovated and expanded Building 213, a former Pan Am hangar, to serve as its dedicated JFK terminal, adding three finger gates in 1995.
If your objective is absolute historical precision....I don't know when the "early 90's" (1990-?) transition to the "mid 90's"(1995-?). Unfortunately, until you source it otherwise---No reference is made to Pan Am pre 1993, only BA & EA. My personal recall was that the 1993 renovated/expanded Tower Air JFK Terminal was so inconspicuous it lacked Airline Signage to the degree that only a green w/ white letter road-side sign existed w/ "Tower Air" & an arrow for the turn-off to the 1993 "new" Terminal b/c the "building" was so far from the perimeter of primary JFK Terminals (i.e. The '93 Tower Terminal was before the first airline specific terminal signage @ JFK...which I believe was for the AA Terminal).
Another post lacking in historical depth.
Not surprising from someone who relies on Wikipedia for “documentation.”
LVISA wrote:They also had DC-8's, (-62's if memory serves). I flew with them a couple of times from NYC to Miami in the late 70's and they were great! Cheaper than Eastern and every passenger was offered a bubbly drink, (mimosa or champagne I believe), before departure. My son and daughter flew with them years later in the 747's and service at the airport and on board had badly deteriorated by then. Too bad, loved seeing the planes in JFK and MIA.