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EDMD
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LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:58 am

Hi everyone,

after years of silent reading, I finally decided to sign up and hopefully become a (very small) part of this community.
This is my first topic, I'm excited :)

And here we go:

Wilken Bormann, CEO Lufthansa Hub Munich, told the media, that LH will announce "at least" two new destinations in the US from MUC next week, plus one new route to India.

They're also going to base the next two A350 at MUC, joining the fleet in early 2020.


Here is my source: Link Unfortunately, in German only.


My predictions are SEA, BLR, and one city in the eastern US.




There are also rumors, that Eurowings will announce some new routes from MUC and FRA to the US, as well.


Whatever the new destinations will be, there will be very much additional capacity from MUC to the US next year, at least 1.100 seats per day and direction (plus EW), a plus of over 20%, assuming that the new routes will be served daily:

DL22 (DTW-MUC): 763>>764
DL130 (ATL-MUC): 763>>764

LH424 (MUC-BOS): 346>>388
LH458 (MUC-SFO): 346>>388
LH4xx (MUC-US1): 359
LH4xy (MUC-US2): 359
 
LH658
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:58 am

Kinda hoping IAH, even though IAH - MUC is seasonal on UA, and both UA and LH operates daily flights to FRA, while FRA is A380 with LH.

Though I guess RDU, BLR, and DEN.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:01 am

LH658 wrote:
Kinda hoping IAH, even though IAH - MUC is seasonal on UA, and both UA and LH operates daily flights to FRA, while FRA is A380 with LH.

Though I guess RDU, BLR, and DEN.

DEN-MUC is on daily A359 already (LH480/1)

Kinda feel it would be something like MIA or DTW to me

Michael
 
x1234
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:04 am

The Indian destination is probably BLR and the 2 US are probably SEA and MIA (high tech and LatAm HQ with constant business travel to Bavaria).
 
MAH4546
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:05 am

eamondzhang wrote:
LH658 wrote:
Kinda hoping IAH, even though IAH - MUC is seasonal on UA, and both UA and LH operates daily flights to FRA, while FRA is A380 with LH.

Though I guess RDU, BLR, and DEN.

DEN-MUC is on daily A359 already (LH480/1)

Kinda feel it would be something like MIA or DTW to me

Michael


LH already flies MIAMUC, with an A380. Oddly it’s seasonal, so maybe it goes year round.
a.
 
LH658
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:06 am

eamondzhang wrote:
LH658 wrote:
Kinda hoping IAH, even though IAH - MUC is seasonal on UA, and both UA and LH operates daily flights to FRA, while FRA is A380 with LH.

Though I guess RDU, BLR, and DEN.

DEN-MUC is on daily A359 already (LH480/1)

Kinda feel it would be something like MIA or DTW to me

Michael


Miami is already served, Detroit is a good guess, Atlanta would be another good guess. I'd say IAH, RDU, DTW, SEA, or YYC.
 
arielwar
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:08 am

I thought LH A380 is year round to MIA?
 
Planes4you
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:10 am

Fingers crossed one of them is DFW
 
LH658
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:13 am

Planes4you wrote:
Fingers crossed one of them is DFW


Not a bad guess, considering MUC was recently launched by AA. LH is pretty strong out of DFW, usually very high load factors according to the DFW load factor thread.
 
717atOGG
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:15 am

I'm gonna go with MCO/SEA/BLR. MCO for the leisure traffic, and since they already do decently well there with their daily 744 service, and SEA since DE tried SEA-MUC in S17 and apparently did well (but closed the route since they consolidated all long-haul out of FRA), and they do well in the summer months with their existing FRA service. I'm not too familiar with the Indian market, but they already do MUC-DEL/BOM, so BLR seems like a natural next step.

And just for reference, off the top of my head LH's current US destinations from MUC are JFK, EWR, BOS, IAD, CLT, MIA (seasonal), ORD, DEN, SFO, and LAX. From FRA, they do JFK, EWR, BOS, PHL, IAD, ATL, MCO, TPA, MIA, DFW, IAH, AUS, ORD, DTW, DEN, SFO, LAX, SAN, SFO, and SEA.
A320/321, A332, 712, 73G/8/9ER, 744, 752/3, E145, E175, CR9
 
777Mech
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:34 am

I'm going to say one will be MUC-ATL. With the amount of German auto companies in the area, I'm surprised it's not served already. Their FRA flight does really well even with the entry of QR and TK
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:38 am

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought LH was dropping EW's long haul division?
 
Planes4you
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:40 am

x1234 wrote:
The Indian destination is probably BLR and the 2 US are probably SEA and MIA (high tech and LatAm HQ with constant business travel to Bavaria).


MIA is already served
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:50 am

I wouldn’t be shocked to see Detroit be one of them.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:41 am

It would only seem logical that it would be a station already served as opposed to a new one since MUC is secondary to FRA.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
AlexBrewster03
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:03 am

Surely DTW. Maybe ATL, SEA, DFW... I wonder if routes like SAN or MCO or PHX could ever happen... Probably not is my guess
 
luckyone
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:07 am

777Mech wrote:
I'm going to say one will be MUC-ATL. With the amount of German auto companies in the area, I'm surprised it's not served already. Their FRA flight does really well even with the entry of QR and TK

While there is assuredly some overlap, the German auto companies in the Atlanta area are Mercedes and Porsche, both of which are based in Stuttgart—and that traffic will likely use the Delta service that existed long before they relocated to ATL. Munich-based BMW obviously has a large presence in Greenville/Spartanburg (the main plant is literally right behind GSP actually) but with Atlanta traffic being what it is these days it’s not an easy sell to convince those passengers to use ATL in lieu of CLT which is much closer anyway.
 
Ishrion
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:11 am

Gonna pull a random one and say PHL and IAH.

PHL since AA cut PHL-FRA/MUC last year and handed FRA over to LH. LH upgauged the PHL flight to a 744.

IAH for obvious reasons.
 
EDMD
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:14 am

LH658 wrote:
Kinda hoping IAH, even though IAH - MUC is seasonal on UA, and both UA and LH operates daily flights to FRA, while FRA is A380 with LH.

Though I guess RDU, BLR, and DEN.



UA160 was made year-round last winter. It‘s doing OK (avg. load factor: ~75% (Jan19-May19)), but imo not good enough for a second flight.

RDU isn‘t even served from FRA, but DEN already is from MUC.



Nicknuzzii wrote:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought LH was dropping EW's long haul division?


Nope. They just let the mainline handle the MUC/FRA-operations and are heavily cutting back at DUS.
 
flyoregon
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:24 am

What are the chances LH adds PDX to their network again (albeit from FRA taking it over from Condor)?
 
adtall
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:53 am

luckyone wrote:
777Mech wrote:
I'm going to say one will be MUC-ATL. With the amount of German auto companies in the area, I'm surprised it's not served already. Their FRA flight does really well even with the entry of QR and TK

While there is assuredly some overlap, the German auto companies in the Atlanta area are Mercedes and Porsche, both of which are based in Stuttgart—and that traffic will likely use the Delta service that existed long before they relocated to ATL. Munich-based BMW obviously has a large presence in Greenville/Spartanburg (the main plant is literally right behind GSP actually) but with Atlanta traffic being what it is these days it’s not an easy sell to convince those passengers to use ATL in lieu of CLT which is much closer anyway.


That's all true regarding BMW's corporate geography, but there's a reason DL has flight 130/131 route GSP-ATL-MUC and vice versa (with a change of gauge obviously). As you said, their presence in GSP is right next to the airport.
 
Fuling
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:19 am

My gut instinct is telling me MUC-IAH, but that the second US and the Indian destinations are going to be switches from FRA to MUC. Similar to what we saw with KIX.
 
acentauri
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:33 am

Ishrion wrote:
Gonna pull a random one and say PHL and IAH.

PHL since AA cut PHL-FRA/MUC last year and handed FRA over to LH. LH upgauged the PHL flight to a 744.

IAH for obvious reasons.

And here it is: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3OhENsWsAEn23u.jpg:large
 
Blerg
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:53 am

I regularly fly on LH and for the past year or so I noticed that connections via MUC and VIE have been cheaper compared to FRA. This could be a clear indication of LH wanting to concentrate its passenger flow to Munich due to its rather difficult relationship with Frankfurt airport. This is why we shouldn't be surprised if Munich keeps on getting more frequencies, destinations and seats as for the time being they seem to be in LH's focus.

So maybe a good indication of future destinations are those that are successful from FRA. Now we will have to see if FRA's new policy of going to bed with LCCs will pay off long-term.
 
SueD
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUCa

Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:03 am

Planes4you wrote:
Fingers crossed one of them is DFW


Seriously why would the lead European *A carrier want to fly from Munich to Dallas with NO alliance feed beyond - Utterly POINTLESS

Houston makes much much more sense for Texas indeed even Austin would likely perform better than Dallas imho !
Last edited by SueD on Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
LH658
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:04 am

Then again it if it will be IAH, then MUC needs serve oil markets like DME, PHC, LUD, ALG, LOS, KUL, SIN, DXB, JED, RUH, BAH, KWI, SSG, and etc. I am sure some already served from MUC, though most IAH LH connections are PHC, ABV, LOS, SSG, LUD, ALG, CAI, DXB, JED, SIN, BAH, and etc.
 
LH658
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:08 am

SueD wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
Fingers crossed one of them is DFW


Seriously why would the lead European *A carrier want to fly from Munich to Dallas with NO alliance feed beyond - Utterly POINTLESS imho !


LH presence's in DFW has been for long time, more than 30 years I want to say. LH still doing strong out of DFW, despite AA serving FRA and MUC from DFW, and flights to other European cities. LH load factor out of DFW is mainly high out of all the international carriers, which is shocking cause it a AA fortress hub. AF - KLM just joined back in DFW after few year hiatus.
 
Ishrion
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:41 am

LH658 wrote:
SueD wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
Fingers crossed one of them is DFW


Seriously why would the lead European *A carrier want to fly from Munich to Dallas with NO alliance feed beyond - Utterly POINTLESS imho !


LH presence's in DFW has been for long time, more than 30 years I want to say. LH still doing strong out of DFW, despite AA serving FRA and MUC from DFW, and flights to other European cities. LH load factor out of DFW is mainly high out of all the international carriers, which is shocking cause it a AA fortress hub. AF - KLM just joined back in DFW after few year hiatus.


Technically we haven’t seen how AA’s DFW-MUC flight has affected LH’s flight yet. June LFs should be posted this month.
 
Ishrion
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUCa

Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:46 am

SueD wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
Fingers crossed one of them is DFW


Seriously why would the lead European *A carrier want to fly from Munich to Dallas with NO alliance feed beyond - Utterly POINTLESS

Houston makes much much more sense for Texas indeed even Austin would likely perform better than Dallas imho !


And, you’re saying LH’s flights from MUC-CLT/MIA/BOS with no alliance feed are pointless? Especially since CLT is a strong fortress hub for AA?

Yes, the route originated when US Airways was still apart of Star Alliance, however, they never dropped the route after the merger. Even when AA announced CLT-MUC last year, LH never stopped and upguaged the route to an A350.
 
stylo777
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:27 am

It's going to be SEA, DTW and BLR with 5-6x weekly frequencies on 359 for each.
 
LH779
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:44 am

With DEL and SFO going from A380 to 748 next summer (due to 2 A380s being moved to MUC) I could see LH reducing the FRA-BLR flight from a 748 to an A346 if they start MUC-BLR on the A359.
So far they didn't announce that any current 748 destination would get a downgrade to something smaller next year.
Currently announced (for summer schedule 2020):
FRA-SFO: 748 instead of A388
MUC-SFO: A388 instead of A346
MUC-BOS: A388 instead of A346 (while keeping FRA-BOS on 748 and A333)
FRA-DEL: 748 instead of A388
FRA-GIG: A343 instead of 744
 
stylo777
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:00 am

Rest assured, BLR definitely remains 748 - one of the best performing and profitable routes. MUC-BLR is additional capacity which the market is demanding for since years. If I'm not mistaken also KLM is going to start a flight to AMS soon.
 
LH779
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:28 am

stylo777 wrote:
Rest assured, BLR definitely remains 748 - one of the best performing and profitable routes. MUC-BLR is additional capacity which the market is demanding for since years. If I'm not mistaken also KLM is going to start a flight to AMS soon.

Ok, it will be interesting which one of the current 748 routes will be downgraded then. Is there any 748 route not performing too well?
 
commpilot
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:08 pm

Come on A.net..if it isn't MIA it has to be MKE! :P
 
x1234
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:16 pm

stylo777, any chance of Guangzhou CAN in China? I understand the main markets are Shenzhen too and Guangzhou/Shenzhen are now an hour by high speed train from HKG (A380) and Air China flies FRA-SZX 3x weekly. Demand to Germany is huge. I believe LH/BA dominate long-haul travel out of BLR with CX/KA trans-Pac in 3rd place. The thing with India is that the local competition is not very good (Air India), unlike China so foreign airlines dominate. BLR is HUGE in that there are massive Western outsourcing and BPO operations there (software development, IT, etc.) wile the US call centers have moved to Manila, Philippines as they speak American English there (due to US colonization) instead of British English in India.
 
digitalcloud
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:27 pm

EDMD wrote:
UA160 was made year-round last winter. It‘s doing OK (avg. load factor: ~75% (Jan19-May19)), but imo not good enough for a second flight.


IMO as in your opinion based on a load factor? Two cities with high premium demand do not need a 100% load factor to be profitable enough to justify expansion.
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:31 pm

Recently Swiss increased ZRH-MIA in the summer season to Boeing 777-300ER, I think that MUC-MIA will remain seasonal, my candidates would be Philadelphia and Seattle, in India, obviously in Bangalore (BLR)
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
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lesfalls
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:32 pm

More then likely RSW is one of the two since the LH Group is taking EW off of their long haul ops.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
rjmf22
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:35 pm

lesfalls wrote:
More then likely RSW is one of the two since the LH Group is taking EW off of their long haul ops.


I would be shocked if RSW is served by LH....i'm thinking IAH.
United Airlines
 
LH779
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:50 pm

lesfalls wrote:
More then likely RSW is one of the two since the LH Group is taking EW off of their long haul ops.

There will still be EW long haul op by SN out of DUS.
There will be new EW long haul flights op by XG out of FRA and MUC. There should be an announcement soon. If they are to start RSW from FRA or MUC I would expect it to be operated by XG.
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:07 pm

I would hope for a return to PHX soon! Seems long overdue
 
wv399
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:23 pm

777Mech wrote:
I'm going to say one will be MUC-ATL. With the amount of German auto companies in the area, I'm surprised it's not served already. Their FRA flight does really well even with the entry of QR and TK


777, Porsche and Mercedes are even better served by Delta's Stuttgart flight. It's the only one to their HQs from the US.
 
EDMD
Topic Author
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:30 pm

digitalcloud wrote:
EDMD wrote:
UA160 was made year-round last winter. It‘s doing OK (avg. load factor: ~75% (Jan19-May19)), but imo not good enough for a second flight.


IMO as in your opinion based on a load factor? Two cities with high premium demand do not need a 100% load factor to be profitable enough to justify expansion.


Of course not. But since the route will go down to 5/7 in W19 compared to 7/7 in W18 and since it is only operated by a 767-300, I don‘t see any Expansion in the near future. And FRA-IAH has more than 24.000 seats to fill, every month.
Last edited by EDMD on Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ishrion
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:31 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
I would hope for a return to PHX soon! Seems long overdue


Wouldn’t be too surprising to see them kick out Condor at FRA.
 
JonNYC
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:49 pm

I'm thinking the new Eurowings adds will include one in Canada.
 
edealinfo
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:06 pm

x1234 wrote:
BLR is HUGE in that there are massive Western outsourcing and BPO operations there (software development, IT, etc.) wile the US call centers have moved to Manila, Philippines as they speak American English there (due to US colonization) instead of British English in India.


If you think Indians living in India speak "British English" then you haven't heard of strong accents. The move from India to the Philippines is not one of British English vs American English, but one of clarity in voice and significantly toning down of an accent.
 
EDMD
Topic Author
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:10 pm

JonNYC wrote:
I'm thinking the new Eurowings adds will include one in Canada.


My guess: LAS and MCO/RSW from MUC and YYC and ANC from FRA. Combined with the already announced routes (FRA-LAS, FRA-MRU etc), this would be perfect for a Frontal Attack on Condor, at least from FRA.
Last edited by EDMD on Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
edealinfo
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:17 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Rest assured, BLR definitely remains 748 - one of the best performing and profitable routes. MUC-BLR is additional capacity which the market is demanding for since years. If I'm not mistaken also KLM is going to start a flight to AMS soon.


1. Lufthansa operates a 747-800 on the FRA to BLR route. It has good connections to the US especially to SFO. heck you might even call it the SFO express route.

2. Yes, KLM is to start 3X weekly to BLR. It will compliment Sykteam's Air France 7X weekly service to BLR and somewhat replace defunct Jet Airways' 5X weekly to AMS.

3. Lufthansa is moving some A380 operations to MUC. One possibility is that Lufthansa could swap out the 747 FRA-BLR and swap in an A380 from MUC - BLR.

4. Option 2 is to downgrade (capacity) on the FRA to BLR route (from 747 to A350 or something else?), and add a new MUC -BLR service on A359.

5. Option 3 is that the proposed flight is not to BLR but from Munich to HYD; Hyderabad is the only other major metro in India to which Lufthansa does not fly (Calcutta doesn't count since is too low yield as a metro). HYD has too has a lot of foreign companies operating there including Amazon. The only other Western airline operating to HYD is British Airways so the competition is decent compared to Bangalore where more and more foreign airlines are choosing to operate.

6. No matter which route it adds to India, its the least Lufthansa could do to fill a large void left by the collapse of Jet Airways. It is somewhat late to the party as Skyteam has filled a larger share of that void.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:25 pm

stylo777 wrote:
Rest assured, BLR definitely remains 748 - one of the best performing and profitable routes. MUC-BLR is additional capacity which the market is demanding for since years. If I'm not mistaken also KLM is going to start a flight to AMS soon.


KLM just opened reservations for BLR on the B78X starting with summer 2020 season.

As for a new route to the eastern USA, I suspect it's ATL as one of the two. I'm not sure what the other one could be in the USA...and I agree that MUC-BLR is all but a done deal with the high tech sector pushing for that route.
 
JonNYC
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:26 pm

EDMD wrote:
JonNYC wrote:
I'm thinking the new Eurowings adds will include one in Canada.


My guess: LAS and MCO/RSW from MUC and YYC and ANC from FRA. Combined with the already announced routes (FRA-LAS, FRA-MRU etc), this will be a Frontal Attack on Condor, at least from FRA.

My guess is it's a plus for the site that you joined! :bigthumbsup:

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Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos