Lufthansa
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:17 am

EDMD wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
EDMD wrote:
Nope. They just let the mainline handle the MUC/FRA-operations and are heavily cutting back at DUS.

Unless the board has changed their mind since their Capital Markets Day presentation in June, Nicknuzzii is right. Eurowings should be completely out of long-haul by end of 2020.

LH779 wrote:
There will still be EW long haul op by SN out of DUS.
There will be new EW long haul flights op by XG out of FRA and MUC. There should be an announcement soon. If they are to start RSW from FRA or MUC I would expect it to be operated by XG.

Lufthansa's Capital Markets Day presentation back in June did not leave much room for interpretation. Eurowings out of long-haul by end of 2020, period. I'm guessing if they start new flights now, it would be for a tour operator or similar outfit...



Lufthansa wrote:
Eurowings long-haul: transfer of commercial responsibility to the Network Organization


https://newsroom.lufthansagroup.com/eng ... 4c3fbd9fef

EW actually never flew long haul themselves. They are using XG and SN for it.

Here is another german article about EW-long haul: Link

EW will continue to fly long haul, but only as a brand. The flights will be operated by XG (FRA/MUC) and SN (DUS), marketing and distribution will be done by LH. Customers won't notice the change, everything will be done behind the scenes.


Jet-lagged wrote:
EDMD - welcome to the site!


Thank you :)


I never wrote this! I don't speak American English for a start I speak a different dialect.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:24 am

BA744PHX wrote:
I would hope for a return to PHX soon! Seems long overdue

Based on what?

LH left ages ago, and the only thing that's really changed regarding PHX-FRA is service by DE that isn't exceptionally high in frequency nor loads, relative to that airline's other US operations.

No one here's going to know the actual yields, but going off public fares, DE isn't doing anything exceptional in that regard either: fares ex-PHX are similar to fares for DE's east coast and central gateways, which use less fuel to boot.



ANA787 wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
What are the chances LH adds PDX to their network again (albeit from FRA taking it over from Condor)?

Condor has been making a killing at PDX. Increased to 5x/week this summer and have always had load factors in the high 90s.

That's no real surprise, seeing as PDX is one of the few routes where DE has feed on the US-side.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Fuling
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:25 am

flyer1225 wrote:
Fuling wrote:
My gut instinct is telling me MUC-IAH, but that the second US and the Indian destinations are going to be switches from FRA to MUC. Similar to what we saw with KIX.


Even though LH has been more focused on MUC traffic as of late, their India routes are still bolstered by US connectivity, which is handled by FRA.


That's right. With the additional two US points, that opens more connectivity. With those new points, FRA won't offer that many more US destinations than MUC, only a few right?
 
LH779
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:32 am

Fuling wrote:
flyer1225 wrote:
Fuling wrote:
My gut instinct is telling me MUC-IAH, but that the second US and the Indian destinations are going to be switches from FRA to MUC. Similar to what we saw with KIX.


Even though LH has been more focused on MUC traffic as of late, their India routes are still bolstered by US connectivity, which is handled by FRA.


That's right. With the additional two US points, that opens more connectivity. With those new points, FRA won't offer that many more US destinations than MUC, only a few right?


US routes out of FRA that are not served from MUC (by LH or UA) are:
PHL, DTW, MCO, TPA, DFW, AUS, SEA, SAN, MIA (only seasonal from MUC)
Last edited by LH779 on Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
CREST777
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:32 am

I’d say PHX. The NA market and esp west coast is one of the few highly profitable markets for LH group. The other, not sure. Maybe SEA - MUC or LAS.

Hopefully not a SJC round 2.
 
Fuling
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:35 am

LH779 wrote:
Fuling wrote:
flyer1225 wrote:

Even though LH has been more focused on MUC traffic as of late, their India routes are still bolstered by US connectivity, which is handled by FRA.


That's right. With the additional two US points, that opens more connectivity. With those new points, FRA won't offer that many more US destinations than MUC, only a few right?


US routes out of FRA that are not served from MUC (by LH or UA) are:
PHL, DTW, MCO, TPA, DFW, AUS, SEA, SAN, MIA (only seasonal from MUC)


OK, if we are looking at CityLine and UA as well, then yea I see it.
 
airbazar
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:41 am

stylo777 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I disagree with the FRA pattern being good. It's awful for U.S. East Coast-India connections and IMO one of the reasons why LH lost so much of its market share in this market. 5-8 hour connection times in FRA is just not acceptable. Flights from DTW/BOS/ORD/PHL/EWR/IAD all arrive before 7:30am or so and most departures to India are after 1PM. I hope that the MUC pattern regarding BLR is better than that of FRA.

Unless you are BA with double daily flights to BOM/DEL and daily to other places in India plus multiple daily flights to East Coast destinations, you can hardly avoid at least one longer layover in any of the directions between both mentioned geographical regions.

BA, QR, EK at least 3. I have a feeling TK will be upping their "stakes" on getting more frequencies to India now that they have a new airport for popper connections.
stylo777 wrote:
On the other hand, those flights don't cater solely for US East to India traffic, there is much much more (Germany, Europe, Middle East, Africa...). Since the most decisive factor is the (lowest) ticket price, waiting a few hours more in transit does seem "bearable" for the most.

Considering how much the likes of LH (and AF) have shrunk in India I would say most are not willing to put up with a few hours in transit and took their business somewhere else. My company included.
I agree, that those flights cater predominantly for those other markets. LH's fares make it obvious that they are not interested and in fact would rather no one flew with them between the U.S. and India.
My point was if they are going to add a duplicate BLR flight I would hope it would have a different schedule than the one from FRA so it could give connections passengers an option between one or the other.
Last edited by airbazar on Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
LH779
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:43 am

Fuling wrote:
LH779 wrote:
Fuling wrote:

That's right. With the additional two US points, that opens more connectivity. With those new points, FRA won't offer that many more US destinations than MUC, only a few right?


US routes out of FRA that are not served from MUC (by LH or UA) are:
PHL, DTW, MCO, TPA, DFW, AUS, SEA, SAN, MIA (only seasonal from MUC)


OK, if we are looking at CityLine and UA as well, then yea I see it.


If we exclude UA, IAH has to be added to the not-from-MUC list. Cityline is just regular Lufthansa for the customer and there's no reason to exclude those flights.
And I forgot ATL as another destination from FRA.
 
Fuling
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:07 am

LH779 wrote:
Fuling wrote:
LH779 wrote:

US routes out of FRA that are not served from MUC (by LH or UA) are:
PHL, DTW, MCO, TPA, DFW, AUS, SEA, SAN, MIA (only seasonal from MUC)


OK, if we are looking at CityLine and UA as well, then yea I see it.


If we exclude UA, IAH has to be added to the not-from-MUC list. Cityline is just regular Lufthansa for the customer and there's no reason to exclude those flights.
And I forgot ATL as another destination from FRA.


Right. I'm only basing my theory on LH mainline as it's them starting the new routes, not CityLine or UA.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:08 am

I mean UA already flies IAH-MUC. Don’t know if we’ll get another flight even though I’d love to see one.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
x1234
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:13 am

Airbazar, the SIMPLE fact is US-India is NOT that profitable for LH and that's why they charge high prices (and for those corporate's locked into the UA/LH TATL A++ JV they can get away with it). Literally LH and every other European airline can charge more for half the distance flown. Again India is a price sensitive market. As incomes have risen in China, increasingly China is less price sensitive than India. Though TPAC to China lately is dirt cheap as there's been a influx of Chinese competitors (Remember there's 4 Chinese airlines (CN3 + CX) versus 1 Indian international airline (Air India).
 
N292UX
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:21 am

stylo777 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
If one of them is an FL destination, I wouldn't rule out either RSW or TPA. That's assuming they already serve MCO from MUC, which I think they do.

nope, MCO is served from FRA; and so is TPA.

Well in that case, MCO is certainly not out of the realm.
 
aircountry
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:31 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I mean UA already flies IAH-MUC. Don’t know if we’ll get another flight even though I’d love to see one.


I see many posting about IAH should be next LH from MUC. I doubt wont make it. There is the problem is MLIT (Mickey Lealand International Terminal) has'nt start rebuilt and old terminal C north has'nt demilosh yet and keep delay. LH might go somewhere else to start from MUC. MLIT is not full to cover for all widebodies mostly skip gate for widebodies and narrowbodies next each other and timing for arrival to make room to park for international. MLIT have limit is 6 widebodies at same time with total 12 gates. I agreed LH should pick IAH to MUC due is Star Alliance, UA already have IAH to MUC now.

I wait to see LH will pick the new US route from MUC later.
 
axiom
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:43 am

Fuling wrote:
LH779 wrote:
Fuling wrote:

OK, if we are looking at CityLine and UA as well, then yea I see it.


If we exclude UA, IAH has to be added to the not-from-MUC list. Cityline is just regular Lufthansa for the customer and there's no reason to exclude those flights.
And I forgot ATL as another destination from FRA.


Right. I'm only basing my theory on LH mainline as it's them starting the new routes, not CityLine or UA.


Whether or not a destination is CL out of FRA is almost immaterial for this speculation. ATL, PHL, and TPA have flip-flopped between ML and CL as equipment needs and availability change. I don’t believe CL long haul is on the table for MUC.
 
mandargb
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:46 am

Would that be SJC ? (they discontinued FRA-SJC in Oct of 2018)
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:23 am

I would think BMW US headquarters in Atlanta, may have some influence and German investors are redoing a major portion of the city right now.
 
EDMD
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:00 am

Lufthansa wrote:
EDMD wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
Unless the board has changed their mind since their Capital Markets Day presentation in June, Nicknuzzii is right. Eurowings should be completely out of long-haul by end of 2020.


Lufthansa's Capital Markets Day presentation back in June did not leave much room for interpretation. Eurowings out of long-haul by end of 2020, period. I'm guessing if they start new flights now, it would be for a tour operator or similar outfit...



Lufthansa wrote:
Eurowings long-haul: transfer of commercial responsibility to the Network Organization


https://newsroom.lufthansagroup.com/eng ... 4c3fbd9fef

EW actually never flew long haul themselves. They are using XG and SN for it.

Here is another german article about EW-long haul: Link

EW will continue to fly long haul, but only as a brand. The flights will be operated by XG (FRA/MUC) and SN (DUS), marketing and distribution will be done by LH. Customers won't notice the change, everything will be done behind the scenes.


Jet-lagged wrote:
EDMD - welcome to the site!


Thank you :)


I never wrote this! I don't speak American English for a start I speak a different dialect.


Sorry, I didn't quote you, of course, but the real Lufthansa from the press release.
 
LH779
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:16 am

mandargb wrote:
Would that be SJC ? (they discontinued FRA-SJC in Oct of 2018)

IF SJC returns, I think it would be on a 789 or A359 and from FRA. For now there are no specific plans (at least not public) as to when the new small(er) long haul planes arrive in FRA. The first 17 A350s are based in MUC.
For the next summer LH is increasing capacity to SFO (FRA 748, MUC A388, last year was A388, A346). So at least some sort of increase for the Bay Area.
 
airbazar
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:32 pm

x1234 wrote:
Airbazar, the SIMPLE fact is US-India is NOT that profitable for LH and that's why they charge high prices (and for those corporate's locked into the UA/LH TATL A++ JV they can get away with it). Literally LH and every other European airline can charge more for half the distance flown. Again India is a price sensitive market. As incomes have risen in China, increasingly China is less price sensitive than India. Though TPAC to China lately is dirt cheap as there's been a influx of Chinese competitors (Remember there's 4 Chinese airlines (CN3 + CX) versus 1 Indian international airline (Air India).

That's a dangerous game to play. As you pointed out China is dirt cheap, a lot cheaper than India. TATL is becoming dirt cheap. Intra-Europe is so cheap they haven't been profiable there in years. If LH is going to pull out of markets where they can't operate profitably rather that figure out HOW to operate profitably then their days as an airline are numbered.
 
Delta28L
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:08 pm

ATL and IAH are my picks from the USA and BLR from India.
 
SATexan
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:44 pm

x1234 wrote:
Airbazar, the SIMPLE fact is US-India is NOT that profitable for LH and that's why they charge high prices

How do you know that US-India is not profitable for LH? Do you have a source or data for this?
 
airDFW
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:21 pm

airbazar wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Airbazar, the SIMPLE fact is US-India is NOT that profitable for LH and that's why they charge high prices (and for those corporate's locked into the UA/LH TATL A++ JV they can get away with it). Literally LH and every other European airline can charge more for half the distance flown. Again India is a price sensitive market. As incomes have risen in China, increasingly China is less price sensitive than India. Though TPAC to China lately is dirt cheap as there's been a influx of Chinese competitors (Remember there's 4 Chinese airlines (CN3 + CX) versus 1 Indian international airline (Air India).

That's a dangerous game to play. As you pointed out China is dirt cheap, a lot cheaper than India. TATL is becoming dirt cheap. Intra-Europe is so cheap they haven't been profiable there in years. If LH is going to pull out of markets where they can't operate profitably rather that figure out HOW to operate profitably then their days as an airline are numbered.


And if India is NOT that profitable then JUST why would they be starting a new flight?
 
luckyone
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:32 pm

Atlwarrior wrote:
I would think BMW US headquarters in Atlanta, may have some influence and German investors are redoing a major portion of the city right now.

BMW USA headquarters is in New Jersey. Mercedes and Porsche have their US headquarters in Atlanta, as does Groupe PSA if it matters.
 
kavok
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:42 pm

Don’t know if it would aid a DTW-MUC flight, but a few months ago Ford and Volkswagen announced they were forming a strategic new partnership on certain vehicles, autonomous technologies, and electric vehicles. Basically engineering sharing in those realms.
 
luckyone
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:54 pm

kavok wrote:
Don’t know if it would aid a DTW-MUC flight, but a few months ago Ford and Volkswagen announced they were forming a strategic new partnership on certain vehicles, autonomous technologies, and electric vehicles. Basically engineering sharing in those realms.

A big chunk of that alliance also involves mutual investments in Argo Ai, which is actually based in Pittsburgh. Volkswagen AG is headquartered in Wolfsburg which lies on the Koln-Berlin ICE. I'm sure someone with more knowledge than I would be able to comment which would be easier. Wolfsburg is a short hop from Berlin on the ICE, but none of the Berlin airports is readily connected to DTW. A change of train in Koln to FRA would likely be simplest as the ICE runs directly to FRA. MUC, to my knowledge, does not have an ICE service.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:37 am

So what day will these flights be announced?
 
LH658
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:47 am

Other than pax going to Africa/Middle East, so many people from IAH on LH flight that go to BLR and Madras, versus Bombay and Delhi. I can see IAH, though MUC is seasonally served by UA. Only issue I see with MUC, it doesn't serve destinations like JED, RUH, BAH, KWI, and DMM that are also create lot of revenue for LH in Houston. Terminal D is already so packed during the afternoon hours, you have several airlines sitting on the ground at that time, AF, KL, CA, LH, NZ, BA, SQ, AV, AM, and QR. Though some how IAH makes it happen. Unless this was a evening flight out of IAH leaving after 16:30 then I can see it working, though I don't know if they are connections leaving out of MUC when PAX arrive on that side of the world.
 
BA
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:29 am

luckyone wrote:
MUC, to my knowledge, does not have an ICE service.


It does not. It just has S-Bahn service.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Aliqiout
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:38 am

ANA787 wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
What are the chances LH adds PDX to their network again (albeit from FRA taking it over from Condor)?

I think we will see LH back in PDX soon-surprised they haven’t returned yet. Condor has been making a killing at PDX. Increased to 5x/week this summer and have always had load factors in the high 90s. They are also extending their PDX season next year by starting in early April. Adidas is also is growing massively in Portland and would also be able to help fill the front cabin of a Lufthansa flight.

DE has AS feed in PDX that LH would not get. I don't know how significant it is, but I recently flew ABQ-PDX-FRA.
 
luckyone
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:42 am

BA wrote:
luckyone wrote:
MUC, to my knowledge, does not have an ICE service.


It does not. It just has S-Bahn service.

Thanks. I wasn’t sure. The last time I went through MUC it definitely was the S-bahn, but that was several years ago so I wasn’t sure if things had changed. That is a rather long ride from Hauptbahnhof.
 
edealinfo
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:21 am

BNAMealer wrote:
So what day will these flights be announced?


Probably after 1 week of speculation on this forum where 90 destinations will be suggested from which there would be a 100% success that the routes announced will match within the 90+ speculated options.
 
Delta757MD88
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:28 am

IAH is what I would see, the UA connections would help a lot to feed that route as well. The other I could see both SEA or maybe DFW or ATL. Love seeing the LH A359 here at EWR, I also heard that we are losing our Eurowings DUS flight, which was previously LH, interesting to see if LH gets it back.
Flown on: MD-88/90 DC-9 717 737-7/8/900, 757-2/300, 767-3/400 777-200/300ER 787-9, E145/170/175, CRJ-100/200/700/900, A319/320 A333 A350 Q300/400.
 
Planes4you
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:47 am

BNAMealer wrote:
So what day will these flights be announced?


Sometime this weekend
 
stylo777
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:12 am

luckyone wrote:
kavok wrote:
Don’t know if it would aid a DTW-MUC flight, but a few months ago Ford and Volkswagen announced they were forming a strategic new partnership on certain vehicles, autonomous technologies, and electric vehicles. Basically engineering sharing in those realms.

A big chunk of that alliance also involves mutual investments in Argo Ai, which is actually based in Pittsburgh. Volkswagen AG is headquartered in Wolfsburg which lies on the Koln-Berlin ICE. I'm sure someone with more knowledge than I would be able to comment which would be easier. Wolfsburg is a short hop from Berlin on the ICE, but none of the Berlin airports is readily connected to DTW. A change of train in Koln to FRA would likely be simplest as the ICE runs directly to FRA. MUC, to my knowledge, does not have an ICE service.

Actually, VW people use HAJ airport to connect via FRA/MUC to the world (or LX, AF, KL, BA, TK). Hannover is an hour drive from Wolfsburg and 35-45min. with train. No need to take any trains down to FRA or Berlin.
 
stylo777
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:23 am

LH658 wrote:
Other than pax going to Africa/Middle East, so many people from IAH on LH flight that go to BLR and Madras, versus Bombay and Delhi. I can see IAH, though MUC is seasonally served by UA. Only issue I see with MUC, it doesn't serve destinations like JED, RUH, BAH, KWI, and DMM that are also create lot of revenue for LH in Houston. Terminal D is already so packed during the afternoon hours, you have several airlines sitting on the ground at that time, AF, KL, CA, LH, NZ, BA, SQ, AV, AM, and QR. Though some how IAH makes it happen. Unless this was a evening flight out of IAH leaving after 16:30 then I can see it working, though I don't know if they are connections leaving out of MUC when PAX arrive on that side of the world.

MUC itself would be a good O/D from the Middle East. You have a constant flow of people from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, etc. to the city for vacation as well as health reasons (medical tourism).
I heard that the A380 on the FRA-IAH is doing quite well, but it will be downgauged to 74H over the winter. Timetable shows A380 again for next summer. In terms of premium seat capacity the 74H is slightly bigger. As you correctly pointed out, there certainly is demand from the Middle East and only FRA has the connections; however, most of that volume goes to EK, QR, TK. Lufthansa is better suited for (Northern/Eastern Europe and Africa (e.g. LOS, ABV...)).
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:17 am

Although car manufacturers are big corporations I do see some people here overestimate the amount of traffic it can generates to justify non-stop service. These days every major multi-headquartered corporation is cutting costs big time and one common measure to do so is to restrict travelling and encourage use of remote connectivity tools.

One or two major companies headquartered at both sides of the pond aren't enough to sustain a TATL route.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
airbazar
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:34 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
One or two major companies headquartered at both sides of the pond aren't enough to sustain a TATL route.

Oh but it is. Here's exhibit A:
https://onemileatatime.com/united-airli ... -contract/
And here's another route where one customer pays for it:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH ... /EDDM/KCLT
It's never been a secret that LH's MUC-CLT is paid for by BMW.
If there is guaranteed corporate traffic from even just one "anchor" customer, the rest of the seats are easy to fill with discounted tickets.
 
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enilria
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:46 pm

Planes4you wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
So what day will these flights be announced?


Sometime this weekend

Hearing tomorrow
 
JonNYC
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Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:00 pm

enilria wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
So what day will these flights be announced?


Sometime this weekend

Hearing tomorrow

Feels like Thursday at the latest.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5819
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:07 pm

airbazar wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
One or two major companies headquartered at both sides of the pond aren't enough to sustain a TATL route.

Oh but it is. Here's exhibit A:
https://onemileatatime.com/united-airli ... -contract/
And here's another route where one customer pays for it:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH ... /EDDM/KCLT
It's never been a secret that LH's MUC-CLT is paid for by BMW.
If there is guaranteed corporate traffic from even just one "anchor" customer, the rest of the seats are easy to fill with discounted tickets.


'Paid for' is pretty imprecise language. Does it mean:

- literally paid for, as in every day the flight operates BMW writes a check for $xxx,xxx?

- revenue guarantee per day/week/month/year?

- commits to buying a minimum of xx seats per flight per day/month/year?

- other structure not specified?

Or, does it just mean there's no formal arrangement and that buys from BMW just make it work?

Even your link to the UA/Apple article finds the qualifying term 'apparently'.
 
FlyerTalkUserNa
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:55 pm

Interesting list of cities in LH's poll on where they should fly the A380. DFW, ORD, TPA, SEA. If those are the options it feels like they might split the frequencies among multiple destinations.

https://twitter.com/Lufthansa_USA/statu ... 03746?s=20
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5868
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:12 pm

Well, the one gentleman seems to think SEA and DTW. Those do seem logical to me. Even though DTW is a DL fortress, LH seems to do very well for them. LH even has a Senator Lounge there. Plus there is a lot of Germany originating traffic bound for DTW thanks to the auto industry.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
Jetty
Posts: 971
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:18 pm

I would guess SFO and BOS. Auto traffic is way overrated on Airliners. These cities have a lot of demand in other sectors and are served year-round from most other major European hubs.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5868
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:21 pm

Jetty wrote:
I would guess SFO and BOS. Auto traffic is way overrated on Airliners. These cities have a lot of demand in other sectors and are served year-round from most other major European hubs.


LH already flies those, so no.

And I dont take auto traffic on its own. I go by O&D numbers.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
LH779
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:31 am

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:26 pm

Jetty wrote:
I would guess SFO and BOS. Auto traffic is way overrated on Airliners. These cities have a lot of demand in other sectors and are served year-round from most other major European hubs.

They announced A380 service from MUC to both BOS and SFO (replacing A346) just a few weeks ago. The 2 new US flights will be new destinations from MUC.

FlyerTalkUserNa wrote:
Interesting list of cities in LH's poll on where they should fly the A380. DFW, ORD, TPA, SEA. If those are the options it feels like they might split the frequencies among multiple destinations.

Yeah they will totally let twitter users decide where to send their A380s :D
 
FlyerTalkUserNa
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:30 am

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:42 pm

LH779 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
I would guess SFO and BOS. Auto traffic is way overrated on Airliners. These cities have a lot of demand in other sectors and are served year-round from most other major European hubs.

They announced A380 service from MUC to both BOS and SFO (replacing A346) just a few weeks ago. The 2 new US flights will be new destinations from MUC.

FlyerTalkUserNa wrote:
Interesting list of cities in LH's poll on where they should fly the A380. DFW, ORD, TPA, SEA. If those are the options it feels like they might split the frequencies among multiple destinations.

Yeah they will totally let twitter users decide where to send their A380s :D


While I certainly don’t think LH is letting twitter users decide, PR departments typically include a destination that will actually receive the A380 in that type of poll. Especially when they have route announcements imminent.
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:48 pm

luckyone wrote:
777Mech wrote:
I'm going to say one will be MUC-ATL. With the amount of German auto companies in the area, I'm surprised it's not served already. Their FRA flight does really well even with the entry of QR and TK

While there is assuredly some overlap, the German auto companies in the Atlanta area are Mercedes and Porsche, both of which are based in Stuttgart—and that traffic will likely use the Delta service that existed long before they relocated to ATL. Munich-based BMW obviously has a large presence in Greenville/Spartanburg (the main plant is literally right behind GSP actually) but with Atlanta traffic being what it is these days it’s not an easy sell to convince those passengers to use ATL in lieu of CLT which is much closer anyway.


Do you know what the traffic demand is for Germany-GSP? I'm curious if we may eventually see GSP-MUC service as the narrow-bodies continue to get increasingly longer ranges. Equally curious to know if there is a business case for an A319LR in a business configuration. I'm just not familiar with how much traffic actually exists on this route.
 
User avatar
Miami
Posts: 6020
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:19 pm

In Miami, LH did say they had plans to make MUC-MIA year-round. Plans included A359 but not sure where they are at the moment.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
leftcoast8
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:59 am

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:06 pm

x1234 wrote:
Airbazar, the SIMPLE fact is US-India is NOT that profitable for LH and that's why they charge high prices (and for those corporate's locked into the UA/LH TATL A++ JV they can get away with it). Literally LH and every other European airline can charge more for half the distance flown. Again India is a price sensitive market. As incomes have risen in China, increasingly China is less price sensitive than India. Though TPAC to China lately is dirt cheap as there's been a influx of Chinese competitors (Remember there's 4 Chinese airlines (CN3 + CX) versus 1 Indian international airline (Air India).


There are a couple of Indian destinations that Lufthansa doesn't serve: Hyderabad and Kolkata are the two big ones. From Vancouver, it can be cheaper to fly out of SEA via AS/EK if you're headed to southern India, since Gulf carriers have pushed European legacy carriers out of the market. BA is the only carrier with Europe-Hyderabad service, there are no direct flights between Europe and Kolkata. KLAF currently don't fly to Chennai, Bangalore or Hyderabad (KLM will soon be starting AMS-BLR though)

And that's not to mention the rest of the Indian subcontinent! If you're headed to Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or Maldives from the western U.S./Canada, you essentially have four choices--connect through DXB/IST, pay out the nose to connect through HKG (to get to DAC/CMB/MLE), or suffer through the horrible longhaul CA/CZ product. Obviously this is less of a concern if you're in SFO/LAX/SEA which have nonstop EK or TK service, but if you're flying out of YVR, YYJ, YYC or YEG (or DEN/SLC) you're screwed.
Last edited by leftcoast8 on Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5868
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: LH to announce two new US-routes from MUC

Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:24 pm

leftcoast8 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Airbazar, the SIMPLE fact is US-India is NOT that profitable for LH and that's why they charge high prices (and for those corporate's locked into the UA/LH TATL A++ JV they can get away with it). Literally LH and every other European airline can charge more for half the distance flown. Again India is a price sensitive market. As incomes have risen in China, increasingly China is less price sensitive than India. Though TPAC to China lately is dirt cheap as there's been a influx of Chinese competitors (Remember there's 4 Chinese airlines (CN3 + CX) versus 1 Indian international airline (Air India).


There are a couple of Indian destinations that Lufthansa doesn't serve: Hyderabad and Kolkata are the two big ones. From Vancouver, it can be cheaper to fly out of SEA via AS/EK if you're headed to southern India, since Gulf carriers have pushed European legacy carriers out of the market. BA is the only carrier with Europe-Hyderabad service, there are no direct flights between Europe and Kolkata. KLAF currently don't fly to Chennai, Bangalore or Hyderabad (KLM will soon be starting AMS-BLR though)

And that's not to mention the rest of the Indian subcontinent! If you're headed to Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or Maldives from the western U.S./Canada, you essentially have four choices--connect through DXB/IST, pay out the nose to connect through HKG (to get to DAC/CMB/MLE), or suffer through the horrible longhaul CA/CZ product. Obviously this is less of a concern if you're in SFO/LAX/SEA which have nonstop EK or TK service, since, but if you're flying out of YVR, YYJ, YYC or YEG (or DEN/SLC) you're screwed.


YVR-India is overwhelmingly bound for DEL and Punjab which are huge markets. Theres some traffic to other parts of India, but not as much as youd think.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"

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