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planemanofnz
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CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:13 am

Hi all

I just saw online that:

Air China reportedly plans to launch service to Bogota from Shanghai or Beijing in 2020 (Reportur, 04-Aug-2019). Colombia Aerocivil DG Juan Carlos Salazar confirmed President Ivan Duque held discussions with the Chinese government and private companies on establishing direct Colombia–China connectivity, with the aim of launching services next year.

See: https://blueswandaily.com/air-china-to- ... 20-report/.

I doubt PEK - BOG could be done non-stop, so where would the stop be?

Also, I presume this route is mainly for political purposes?

Cheers,

C.
 
LatinAirliner
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:43 am

100% political purposes.

Interesting if it comes to be true, I don't think so.
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raylee67
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:13 am

If this happens, I would think CA would want to avoid stopping over in US or Canada, given the current relationship between China and the two countries.

Stopping over at MEX seems to be an option?
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workhorse
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:38 am

What about the future "Project Sunrise" aircraft (whatever it will be)? Would an aircraft capable to fly SYD-LHR-SYD non-stop, be also able to do PEK-BOG-PEK (taking into account winds, air routes and BOG's altitude)?
 
workhorse
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:40 am

raylee67 wrote:
If this happens, I would think CA would want to avoid stopping over in US or Canada, given the current relationship between China and the two countries.

Stopping over at MEX seems to be an option?


MEX is a bit off route and CA already flies there.

Maybe PTY?
 
Ishrion
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:45 am

workhorse wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
If this happens, I would think CA would want to avoid stopping over in US or Canada, given the current relationship between China and the two countries.

Stopping over at MEX seems to be an option?


MEX is a bit off route and CA already flies there.

Maybe PTY?


PEK-PTY is 110 miles shorter than PER-LHR.

And... no... I’m sure if Air China wanted to fly PEK-PTY, they would. They still have that PEK-IAH-PTY flight.
 
aircountry
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:47 am

workhorse wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
If this happens, I would think CA would want to avoid stopping over in US or Canada, given the current relationship between China and the two countries.

Stopping over at MEX seems to be an option?


MEX is a bit off route and CA already flies there.

Maybe PTY?


PTY go on one stop via IAH.
 
workhorse
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:52 am

Ishrion wrote:
workhorse wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
If this happens, I would think CA would want to avoid stopping over in US or Canada, given the current relationship between China and the two countries.

Stopping over at MEX seems to be an option?


MEX is a bit off route and CA already flies there.

Maybe PTY?


PEK-PTY is 110 miles shorter than PER-LHR.

And... no... I’m sure if Air China wanted to fly PEK-PTY, they would. They still have that PEK-IAH-PTY flight.


aircountry wrote:
PTY go on one stop via IAH.


My bad, I forgot about PEK-IAH-PTY. Also, now that I've checked, it's not CA who flies PEK-MEX, it's Hainan. :flamed:

But anyway, I think it's an interesting conversation to have. How much of non-stop Central and South America a "Project Sunrise" aircraft would open up for Air China? BOG? UIO? LIM?
 
Ishrion
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:58 am

workhorse wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
workhorse wrote:

MEX is a bit off route and CA already flies there.

Maybe PTY?


PEK-PTY is 110 miles shorter than PER-LHR.

And... no... I’m sure if Air China wanted to fly PEK-PTY, they would. They still have that PEK-IAH-PTY flight.


aircountry wrote:
PTY go on one stop via IAH.


My bad, I forgot about PEK-IAH-PTY. Also, now that I've checked, it's not CA who flies PEK-MEX, it's Hainan. :flamed:

But anyway, I think it's an interesting conversation to have. How much of non-stop Central and South America a "Project Sunrise" aircraft would open up for Air China? BOG? UIO? LIM?


Actually I thought Hainan operated MEX with a stop in Tijuana?
 
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Coal
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:08 am

Could potentially be done via Europe, through an underserved city, the same way they serve Brazil.
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LH658
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:00 pm

I hope it via IAH, another option and chance to fly a wide body into Colombia vs a 757 with UA.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:10 pm

Coal wrote:
Could potentially be done via Europe, through an underserved city, the same way they serve Brazil.

CA has reduced their PEK-MAD-GRU service to 1-2x weekly while the rest of the week the plane just returns to PEK from MAD so yes it's possible that they'll start it from MAD.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
airbazar
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:25 pm

PEK-BOG could potentially be done non-stop. It will likely be less flying time than PER-LHR if they ride the jetstream across the Pacific. But BOG-PEK can't be done non-stop. Between the distance and the altitude of BOG, it's mission impossible.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:05 pm

LatinAirliner wrote:
100% political purposes.


What purposes would those be? Has Colombia even signed on to big Belt and Road initiatives? Has China committed $10+ billion in infrastructure projects? Mining investments of similar size?

BOG-PEK is just one of those 'Can't get there from here' airport pairs. A Great Circle route is 9,275 statute miles. Airport elevation greatly diminishes range. There's no plausible European stop (as in, having decent demand from BOG) that doesn't boost mileage significantly. BOG-YYZ-PEK is distance-efficient but I can't imagine Canadian regulators allowing it in a market that supports a just 1x daily AC flight.
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:12 pm

CA's PTY-IAH leg has abysmal LF's as I'm told.

Only reasonable scenario would be BOG-IAH-PEK replacing PTY

In any case I will believe this one when I see it
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x1234
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:30 pm

The FIRST thing CA can do is to make IAH daily from PEK (right now its 6x weekly) to feed UA's hub.
 
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drerx7
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:59 pm

Well - IAH-PTY is a political route due to China's investment in the region. I've flown it and going down it was about half full - coming back was about 80% full. Of course that isn't indicative of anything. Seeing as that is flown on Thursdays and Sundays to PTY...I could see them adding a tag to BOG on other days. None of these tags are meant to make money per se.
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Thenoflyzone
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:13 pm

Chinese carriers don’t have any more route rights from Tier 1 cities (PEK/PVG) to the US or Canada. So If BOG will be served via North America, the stop will come from an existing CA station.

CA could very well end up adding IAH-BOG on top of IAH-PTY.

Two other possibilities: YVR-BOG and YUL-BOG.

Canada-China bilateral allows for 2 fifth freedom routes.

One is CA from YUL to HAV. CZ doesn’t exercice 5th freedom rights on YVR-MEX. So CA could very well launch another 5th freedom route from Canada.

YVR airport is on record wanting desperately a South American flight. And YUL-BOG is unserved. Avianca recently applied with the Colombian government to start the route, but their financial issues prevented them from launching it.

Via Canada might be a long shot, but considering this is CA we are talking about, anything is possible.
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:36 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:16 pm

drerx7 wrote:
Well - IAH-PTY is a political route due to China's investment in the region. I've flown it and going down it was about half full - coming back was about 80% full. Of course that isn't indicative of anything. Seeing as that is flown on Thursdays and Sundays to PTY...I could see them adding a tag to BOG on other days. None of these tags are meant to make money per se.


It's not just the investments. Panama decided to recognized mainland PRC in June 2017 (instead of Taiwan aka Republic of China). It's political "reward" for Panama to have Air China to fly there, despite (at least AFAIK) the abysmal load.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:15 pm

raylee67 wrote:
If this happens, I would think CA would want to avoid stopping over in US or Canada, given the current relationship between China and the two countries.

Stopping over at MEX seems to be an option?


MEX has the same problem that BOG has...hot and high (MEX is 7350 feet high, and BOG is 8360 feet high). There would have to be a second stop made on the return, as elevation causes a payload hit.

As for why...I suspect to replace AM on the soon-to-be-canned MEX-TIJ-PVG-MEX route.

Smarter would be for them to PEK-MEX-TIJ-PEK, or for CZ to do PKX-MEX-TIJ-PKX, then codeshare with AM for onward connections...or shuttle passengers to ICN and then codeshare with AM from ICN.. While MEX may be an issue with immigration lines, one doesn't need a visa for the transfer and the process is easier than transiting via the USA or Canada.
 
Kadish
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:42 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Coal wrote:
Could potentially be done via Europe, through an underserved city, the same way they serve Brazil.

CA has reduced their PEK-MAD-GRU service to 1-2x weekly while the rest of the week the plane just returns to PEK from MAD so yes it's possible that they'll start it from MAD.

It seems logical to fly from MAD but a lot of competition just in case they get 5th freedom.
AV, IB and UX should have around 7/10 daily flights between MAD and Colombia. Too much capacity.
Maybe Paris or Milan makes more sense.
 
x1234
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:55 pm

As AeroMexico made MEX-ICN non-stop HU should do the SAME to their PEK-MEX flight instead of stopping in TIJ. Surely they can weight restrict is west-bound out of MEX (ICN & NRT are nearly the same distance and the ICN flight flies over China sometimes before turning into ICN).
 
pipeafcr
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:26 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
LatinAirliner wrote:
100% political purposes.


What purposes would those be? Has Colombia even signed on to big Belt and Road initiatives? Has China committed $10+ billion in infrastructure projects? Mining investments of similar size?

BOG-PEK is just one of those 'Can't get there from here' airport pairs. A Great Circle route is 9,275 statute miles. Airport elevation greatly diminishes range. There's no plausible European stop (as in, having decent demand from BOG) that doesn't boost mileage significantly. BOG-YYZ-PEK is distance-efficient but I can't imagine Canadian regulators allowing it in a market that supports a just 1x daily AC flight.


Nope, Colombia's new president was just on an international tour (once again) bootlicking. It's more of an excuse for him to travel than anything else and that, along with an agreement for a couple of thousand solar panels, was enough for him to spend taxpayers money a short trip across the pacific.
Felipe Carrillo
 
eamondzhang
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:15 pm

x1234 wrote:
As AeroMexico made MEX-ICN non-stop HU should do the SAME to their PEK-MEX flight instead of stopping in TIJ. Surely they can weight restrict is west-bound out of MEX (ICN & NRT are nearly the same distance and the ICN flight flies over China sometimes before turning into ICN).

If only you bother checking your fact.

AM90 doesn't touch China when flying to ICN. Adding an hour onto that already severely weight restricted flight? You gotta be kidding me.

Michael
 
B1168
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:52 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
If this happens, I would think CA would want to avoid stopping over in US or Canada, given the current relationship between China and the two countries.

Stopping over at MEX seems to be an option?


MEX has the same problem that BOG has...hot and high (MEX is 7350 feet high, and BOG is 8360 feet high). There would have to be a second stop made on the return, as elevation causes a payload hit.

As for why...I suspect to replace AM on the soon-to-be-canned MEX-TIJ-PVG-MEX route.

Smarter would be for them to PEK-MEX-TIJ-PEK, or for CZ to do PKX-MEX-TIJ-PKX, then codeshare with AM for onward connections...or shuttle passengers to ICN and then codeshare with AM from ICN.. While MEX may be an issue with immigration lines, one doesn't need a visa for the transfer and the process is easier than transiting via the USA or Canada.


Probably not CZ... they just left Skyteam. I will expect that they fly to America more and use AA codeshare from there.
 
workhorse
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:10 am

eamondzhang wrote:
x1234 wrote:
As AeroMexico made MEX-ICN non-stop HU should do the SAME to their PEK-MEX flight instead of stopping in TIJ. Surely they can weight restrict is west-bound out of MEX (ICN & NRT are nearly the same distance and the ICN flight flies over China sometimes before turning into ICN).

If only you bother checking your fact.

AM90 doesn't touch China when flying to ICN. Adding an hour onto that already severely weight restricted flight? You gotta be kidding me.

Michael


Yes, but they fly it with a 787. With an A359ULR (or a future Project Sunrise aircraft) MEX-PEK might become doable.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: CA to launch PEK - BOG?

Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:42 pm

workhorse wrote:
Yes, but they fly it with a 787. With an A359ULR (or a future Project Sunrise aircraft) MEX-PEK might become doable.

Very much doubt this especially with MEX's elevation.It's not something that can be changed by ULR or not.

Michael

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