FriscoHeavy
Topic Author
Posts: 1582
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:56 pm

It looks like WN is having a positive impact (downward pressure) on fares in Hawaii, as many of us expected. I hope they can keep up the great work and continue to thrive with flying to and within Hawaii.

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... yptr=yahoo
Whatever
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:09 pm

We're looking at a Hawaii trip this fall, and will definitely use WN for inter-island travel if we island-hop. $39-49, all bags included, bookable with points directly transferable from Chase ... I mean why wouldn't we just book WN than HA!
 
tphuang
Posts: 3100
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:12 pm

I'm waiting for the fare data to come out, but it's pretty obvious WN's entrance has sent a ripple in the market. HA's earning numbers is a good indication of that.
 
WN732
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:20 pm

There's room in the market for two. It will eventually even out to where both airlines offer similar fares. HA is definitely feeling a pinch but that's all it really is. They don't seem to be overly concerned.

But their stock has definitely taken a hit.
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2132
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:32 pm

I booked $29 one way KOA-HNL for my parents and 2 of their friends. Factoring in the $15 interisland bag fee that Hawaiian charges with one bag it really only costs $14. And normal fares are only $49. A couple of years ago when I booked KOA-HNL It was $79 on Island Air, Hawaiian was $99. So WN has really brought down fares.
Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:49 pm

funny how go! was such a horrible, evil, mean venture-- but when Southwest does it..... (WN picked up one or two HA execs recently)

go! at least had only a few seats at $39, then $49.. with the bulk being $59 - $89 each.
Last edited by usxguy on Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
xx
 
ATLgaUSA
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:58 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:53 pm

HA’s customer service is atrocious. WN will give them a run for their money.
 
FriscoHeavy
Topic Author
Posts: 1582
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:00 pm

9w748capt wrote:
We're looking at a Hawaii trip this fall, and will definitely use WN for inter-island travel if we island-hop. $39-49, all bags included, bookable with points directly transferable from Chase ... I mean why wouldn't we just book WN than HA!


You're right about that. It is hard to beat in the situation you mentioned.
Whatever
 
N383SW
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:19 pm

usxguy wrote:
funny how go! was such a horrible, evil, mean venture-- but when Southwest does it..... (WN picked up one or two HA execs recently)

go! at least had only a few seats at $39, then $49.. with the bulk being $59 - $89 each.


I think most of that was the way JO went about it and what happened to AQ.
 
User avatar
jaybird
Posts: 355
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:23 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:35 pm

usxguy wrote:
funny how go! was such a horrible, evil, mean venture-- but when Southwest does it..... (WN picked up one or two HA execs recently)

go! at least had only a few seats at $39, then $49.. with the bulk being $59 - $89 each.


There were multiple issues with go! that were operational and had nothing to do with fares. There wasn't anyone I've spoken to that had a postitive experience with them. When I booked staff on them because HA was sold out - staff would not fly on them a 2nd time. Baggage didn't always make it on the plane. And once it hits the news that pilots fell asleep and the flight overflies your destination - it's hard to put faith in an airline after that. It really wasn't the fares.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 783
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:41 pm

I'll be more interested in the data when the MAX reenters service. At that point, Southwest's expansion plans can really go full bore into the Hawaiian market. However, yes, we are seeing some downward pricing pressure even with Southwest's smaller entry into the market. I recently saw a $300 roundtrip on HA in coach, LAX-OGG. It was gone before I could snap up three tickets but it was on HA's own website. Quickie specials like that are occurring with more regularity from HA as they try to play a little defense. Or, maybe its offense?
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3486
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:50 pm

The whole WN thing in the NI market is overblown IMHO. There was always "competition" of some kind in Hawaii...most people seem to forget Island Air for some reason. Two carriers can work together...I think some of the bigger losers will be the larger carriers. It's not uncommon to see half-empty UA flights flying to/from some of the NI-West Coast.
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
flanker
Posts: 1417
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:42 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:55 pm

I've only been on island for 2 years. All of our family and friends are very excited about WN entering the local area. Everyone I work with has already used them numerous times. If anyone wants a more romantic island to island experience, I recommend Makani Kai Air.. or Mokulele.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:19 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
The whole WN thing in the NI market is overblown IMHO. There was always "competition" of
some kind in Hawaii...most people seem to forget Island Air for some reason. Two carriers can work together...I think some of the bigger losers will be the larger carriers. It's not uncommon to see half-empty UA flights flying to/from some of the NI-West Coast.


Sorry, what's NI? Or did you mean to type HI?
 
ScottB
Posts: 6610
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:30 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Sorry, what's NI? Or did you mean to type HI?


By context I believe it's "Neighbor Island" -- i.e. all the Hawaiian Islands apart from O'ahu.
 
77H
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:49 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
The whole WN thing in the NI market is overblown IMHO. There was always "competition" of some kind in Hawaii...most people seem to forget Island Air for some reason. Two carriers can work together...I think some of the bigger losers will be the larger carriers. It's not uncommon to see half-empty UA flights flying to/from some of the NI-West Coast.


You're right, its not that uncommon, but that was occurring long before WN entered the market. I think that may speak more to capacity management than external pressure from competition.
Though, from what I've seen, a lot of those half-empty inbound flights turn outbound completely full, and vice versa. So, there is really no way around that. Even if the inbound is flown at a loss, the revenue from the outbound can make up for it and more leading to a overall net positive.

77H
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3486
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:04 am

ScottB wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Sorry, what's NI? Or did you mean to type HI?


By context I believe it's "Neighbor Island" -- i.e. all the Hawaiian Islands apart from O'ahu.


That is correct
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:52 am

airportugal310 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
Sorry, what's NI? Or did you mean to type HI?


By context I believe it's "Neighbor Island" -- i.e. all the Hawaiian Islands apart from O'ahu.


That is correct


That is literally the first time I've ever seen that acronym. Ever.
 
77H
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:48 am

9w748capt wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
ScottB wrote:

By context I believe it's "Neighbor Island" -- i.e. all the Hawaiian Islands apart from O'ahu.


That is correct


That is literally the first time I've ever seen that acronym. Ever.


Perhaps you’ve heard them called the “Outer Islands” which is an older term describing the same thing.

I still slip up a few times and call them the outer islands every so often even though I grew up on an “outer island”

77H
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3529
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:25 am

Any of these cheap fares you see are a result of a lack of success by WN, not a successful venture. Those fares with no ancillary are not sustainable and will force WN to eventually drop interisland flying. Not something to celebrate.
 
FriscoHeavy
Topic Author
Posts: 1582
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:37 am

Rdh3e wrote:
Any of these cheap fares you see are a result of a lack of success by WN, not a successful venture. Those fares with no ancillary are not sustainable and will force WN to eventually drop interisland flying. Not something to celebrate.


Well, you must have been under a rock. Southwest has stated that Hawaii is doing great and better than expected.
Whatever
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5577
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:42 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
Any of these cheap fares you see are a result of a lack of success by WN, not a successful venture. Those fares with no ancillary are not sustainable and will force WN to eventually drop interisland flying. Not something to celebrate.


Well, you must have been under a rock. Southwest has stated that Hawaii is doing great and better than expected.


Better than expected isn't necessarily profitable to the degree of the rest of the operation, and interisland flying is a small RPM subset of total Hawaii. It's going to take a while for WN to return to its historical ASM growth trajectory post-MAX. Let's see how quickly they grow interisland flying.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2194
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:47 am

9w748capt wrote:
We're looking at a Hawaii trip this fall, and will definitely use WN for inter-island travel if we island-hop. $39-49, all bags included, bookable with points directly transferable from Chase ... I mean why wouldn't we just book WN than HA!


Wow that is an great fare!!
However what I would like to know but only time will tell is if $39-49 dollar inter-island fares are sustainable. WN is a great airline but WN isn't a LCC, on the mainland there are times where WN fare is higher than the US3's fare. WN costs are not on par with LCC's they are closer to the US3, so it will be interesting to see in 2-3 years once the excitement wears off if WN is still charging $39-49 on intra-island or if they are forced to charge $79-$99 dollars just to cover their cost. For now I think most people are loving WN's prices (everyone except HA) but are their prices sustainable over the long term no one knows for sure at this point.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13903
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:44 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
Any of these cheap fares you see are a result of a lack of success by WN, not a successful venture. Those fares with no ancillary are not sustainable and will force WN to eventually drop interisland flying. Not something to celebrate.


Well, you must have been under a rock. Southwest has stated that Hawaii is doing great and better than expected.


Better than expected isn't necessarily profitable to the degree of the rest of the operation, and interisland flying is a small RPM subset of total Hawaii. It's going to take a while for WN to return to its historical ASM growth trajectory post-MAX. Let's see how quickly they grow interisland flying.


I'm not sure that they need profit to the degree of the rest of the operation. Hawaii flying by mainland carriers has historically been pretty inefficient from a aircraft and ground crew utilization perspective (look at the AA operation ex-PHX for perhaps the poster child of bad utilization). If interisland improves utilization, thereby arguably reducing costs on the mainland flights, perhaps it doesn't need to be a rock star from a revenue perspective. Of course, the jury is likely to be out on all of this until the MAX debacle is resolved and WN can fly the Hawaii schedule it wants to fly.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mcg
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:12 pm

jaybird wrote:
usxguy wrote:
funny how go! was such a horrible, evil, mean venture-- but when Southwest does it..... (WN picked up one or two HA execs recently)

go! at least had only a few seats at $39, then $49.. with the bulk being $59 - $89 each.


There were multiple issues with go! that were operational and had nothing to do with fares. There wasn't anyone I've spoken to that had a postitive experience with them. When I booked staff on them because HA was sold out - staff would not fly on them a 2nd time. Baggage didn't always make it on the plane. And once it hits the news that pilots fell asleep and the flight overflies your destination - it's hard to put faith in an airline after that. It really wasn't the fares.


I had a positive experience with Go!. LIH-HNL-KOA, flights operated on time and the price was right.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:25 pm

jayunited wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
We're looking at a Hawaii trip this fall, and will definitely use WN for inter-island travel if we island-hop. $39-49, all bags included, bookable with points directly transferable from Chase ... I mean why wouldn't we just book WN than HA!


Wow that is an great fare!!
However what I would like to know but only time will tell is if $39-49 dollar inter-island fares are sustainable. WN is a great airline but WN isn't a LCC, on the mainland there are times where WN fare is higher than the US3's fare. WN costs are not on par with LCC's they are closer to the US3, so it will be interesting to see in 2-3 years once the excitement wears off if WN is still charging $39-49 on intra-island or if they are forced to charge $79-$99 dollars just to cover their cost. For now I think most people are loving WN's prices (everyone except HA) but are their prices sustainable over the long term no one knows for sure at this point.


Speaking from a tourist's perspective (especially a mainland-US based tourist), I think WN is going to quickly become the airline of choice for island hopping, especially when they add LIH. At worst, WN will match HA's fares unless HA really persistently undercuts the market, which IMO would only hurt HA. And if most mainland-US based customers have any airline loyalty, it's either to the US3 or WN, most likely not HA. HA will always have the upper hand on frequency which will appeal to their frequent flyers and elites (they'll get the same perks such as free bags that WN offers anyway), but WN is appealing for pretty much every other reason. Plus it seems like everyone and their mother has a Chase card these days, so being able to buy inter-island tickets for 2000-3000 points with bags included and no change fees ... it's almost too good to be true. I say this as a nearly yearly visitor to Hawaii at this point.
 
chrisair
Posts: 2046
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:34 pm

Can't wait for the requisite people posting on here about how the locals don't care for WN.

Meanwhile, the crews I know flying inter island legs are saying locals are 90% of the inter island pax outside of the KOA-HNL connector.and are thrilled to get pretzels. There's even a video floating around of a WN crew member on a flight from Kona leading a plane full of people saying ku kai mauna. The locals are thrilled to have WN.

Rdh3e wrote:
Any of these cheap fares you see are a result of a lack of success by WN, not a successful venture. Those fares with no ancillary are not sustainable and will force WN to eventually drop interisland flying. Not something to celebrate.


Found the Hawaiian employee who works in the building next to Big Kahuna Pizza. :biggrin:
 
kiowa
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:34 pm

9w748capt wrote:
jayunited wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
We're looking at a Hawaii trip this fall, and will definitely use WN for inter-island travel if we island-hop. $39-49, all bags included, bookable with points directly transferable from Chase ... I mean why wouldn't we just book WN than HA!


Wow that is an great fare!!
However what I would like to know but only time will tell is if $39-49 dollar inter-island fares are sustainable. WN is a great airline but WN isn't a LCC, on the mainland there are times where WN fare is higher than the US3's fare. WN costs are not on par with LCC's they are closer to the US3, so it will be interesting to see in 2-3 years once the excitement wears off if WN is still charging $39-49 on intra-island or if they are forced to charge $79-$99 dollars just to cover their cost. For now I think most people are loving WN's prices (everyone except HA) but are their prices sustainable over the long term no one knows for sure at this point.


Speaking from a tourist's perspective (especially a mainland-US based tourist), I think WN is going to quickly become the airline of choice for island hopping, especially when they add LIH. At worst, WN will match HA's fares unless HA really persistently undercuts the market, which IMO would only hurt HA. And if most mainland-US based customers have any airline loyalty, it's either to the US3 or WN, most likely not HA. HA will always have the upper hand on frequency which will appeal to their frequent flyers and elites (they'll get the same perks such as free bags that WN offers anyway), but WN is appealing for pretty much every other reason. Plus it seems like everyone and their mother has a Chase card these days, so being able to buy inter-island tickets for 2000-3000 points with bags included and no change fees ... it's almost too good to be true. I say this as a nearly yearly visitor to Hawaii at this point.


The 737 should be fine for interisland but is a horrible, uncofortable aircraft IMO for a 4 + hour flight from the mainland. I will take a widebody aircraft every time I can.
 
FriscoHeavy
Topic Author
Posts: 1582
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:41 pm

9w748capt wrote:
jayunited wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
We're looking at a Hawaii trip this fall, and will definitely use WN for inter-island travel if we island-hop. $39-49, all bags included, bookable with points directly transferable from Chase ... I mean why wouldn't we just book WN than HA!


Wow that is an great fare!!
However what I would like to know but only time will tell is if $39-49 dollar inter-island fares are sustainable. WN is a great airline but WN isn't a LCC, on the mainland there are times where WN fare is higher than the US3's fare. WN costs are not on par with LCC's they are closer to the US3, so it will be interesting to see in 2-3 years once the excitement wears off if WN is still charging $39-49 on intra-island or if they are forced to charge $79-$99 dollars just to cover their cost. For now I think most people are loving WN's prices (everyone except HA) but are their prices sustainable over the long term no one knows for sure at this point.


Speaking from a tourist's perspective (especially a mainland-US based tourist), I think WN is going to quickly become the airline of choice for island hopping, especially when they add LIH. At worst, WN will match HA's fares unless HA really persistently undercuts the market, which IMO would only hurt HA. And if most mainland-US based customers have any airline loyalty, it's either to the US3 or WN, most likely not HA. HA will always have the upper hand on frequency which will appeal to their frequent flyers and elites (they'll get the same perks such as free bags that WN offers anyway), but WN is appealing for pretty much every other reason. Plus it seems like everyone and their mother has a Chase card these days, so being able to buy inter-island tickets for 2000-3000 points with bags included and no change fees ... it's almost too good to be true. I say this as a nearly yearly visitor to Hawaii at this point.



Very good assessment. Thank you for sharing.
Whatever
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:44 pm

kiowa wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
jayunited wrote:

Wow that is an great fare!!
However what I would like to know but only time will tell is if $39-49 dollar inter-island fares are sustainable. WN is a great airline but WN isn't a LCC, on the mainland there are times where WN fare is higher than the US3's fare. WN costs are not on par with LCC's they are closer to the US3, so it will be interesting to see in 2-3 years once the excitement wears off if WN is still charging $39-49 on intra-island or if they are forced to charge $79-$99 dollars just to cover their cost. For now I think most people are loving WN's prices (everyone except HA) but are their prices sustainable over the long term no one knows for sure at this point.


Speaking from a tourist's perspective (especially a mainland-US based tourist), I think WN is going to quickly become the airline of choice for island hopping, especially when they add LIH. At worst, WN will match HA's fares unless HA really persistently undercuts the market, which IMO would only hurt HA. And if most mainland-US based customers have any airline loyalty, it's either to the US3 or WN, most likely not HA. HA will always have the upper hand on frequency which will appeal to their frequent flyers and elites (they'll get the same perks such as free bags that WN offers anyway), but WN is appealing for pretty much every other reason. Plus it seems like everyone and their mother has a Chase card these days, so being able to buy inter-island tickets for 2000-3000 points with bags included and no change fees ... it's almost too good to be true. I say this as a nearly yearly visitor to Hawaii at this point.


The 737 should be fine for interisland but is a horrible, uncofortable aircraft IMO for a 4 + hour flight from the mainland. I will take a widebody aircraft every time I can.


Hahaha what about 5-6 hour domestic flights? Transcons? Hell, even ORD-LAX is flown mostly by the 737. So do you avoid flying ORD-LAX unless you're on a widebody?
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:01 pm

9w748capt wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
ScottB wrote:

By context I believe it's "Neighbor Island" -- i.e. all the Hawaiian Islands apart from O'ahu.


That is correct


That is literally the first time I've ever seen that acronym. Ever.


First time for me too, but I don't live in Hawaii. Lots of Google hits. Here's one take on it from 2010 from a Honoluluan: http://www.honolulumagazine.com/Honolulu-Magazine/Off-My-Desk/April-2010/Are-They-Neighbor-Islands-or-Outer-Islands/
 
ScottB
Posts: 6610
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:12 pm

kiowa wrote:
The 737 should be fine for interisland but is a horrible, uncofortable aircraft IMO for a 4 + hour flight from the mainland. I will take a widebody aircraft every time I can.


You're perfectly welcome to make the choices that work best for you, but I would choose a 737 any day over the 10-across 777s UA uses to Hawaii.
 
mcg
Posts: 968
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:25 pm

ScottB wrote:
kiowa wrote:
The 737 should be fine for interisland but is a horrible, uncofortable aircraft IMO for a 4 + hour flight from the mainland. I will take a widebody aircraft every time I can.


You're perfectly welcome to make the choices that work best for you, but I would choose a 737 any day over the 10-across 777s UA uses to Hawaii.


Generally agree with ScottB, but have started to conclude it's sort of "six of one, half dozen of the other". At least on the 737 you can get off the plane a little faster.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:27 pm

chrisair wrote:
Can't wait for the requisite people posting on here about how the locals don't care for WN.

Meanwhile, the crews I know flying inter island legs are saying locals are 90% of the inter island pax outside of the KOA-HNL connector.and are thrilled to get pretzels.


That is seriously impressive if true. All we read here is about how the locals have some undying devotion to HA and will stay loyal at all costs. The WN effect may be overstated but there's no doubt WN's entry will significantly affect the dynamics of the inter-island market.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:28 pm

ScottB wrote:
kiowa wrote:
The 737 should be fine for interisland but is a horrible, uncofortable aircraft IMO for a 4 + hour flight from the mainland. I will take a widebody aircraft every time I can.


You're perfectly welcome to make the choices that work best for you, but I would choose a 737 any day over the 10-across 777s UA uses to Hawaii.


Same! Thankfully AA's PEY is reasonably priced if bought in advance. 10-abreast on a 777 should be considered cruel and unusual punishment IMHO.
 
flanker
Posts: 1417
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:42 am

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:35 pm

ScottB wrote:
kiowa wrote:
The 737 should be fine for interisland but is a horrible, uncofortable aircraft IMO for a 4 + hour flight from the mainland. I will take a widebody aircraft every time I can.


You're perfectly welcome to make the choices that work best for you, but I would choose a 737 any day over the 10-across 777s UA uses to Hawaii.


The UA 777 product is terrible. Avoid flying them to the mainland whenever I can. On the other hand AA narrow body is much more bearable.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2058
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:49 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
Any of these cheap fares you see are a result of a lack of success by WN, not a successful venture. Those fares with no ancillary are not sustainable and will force WN to eventually drop interisland flying. Not something to celebrate.


Wrong. Hawaii is WN's best performing market.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/07/ ... ext-month/

WN's closure of its EWR station frees up equipment to add LIH and ITO to its Hawaii service.

WN's biggest issue in its Hawaii service is the painfully slow bag drop in HNL, in which NI pax and CONUS pax are commingled and forced to wait 40 min. to drop bags. The elapsed time to drop bags and walk to the gate is longer than the flight from HNL to KOA.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3100
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:58 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
Any of these cheap fares you see are a result of a lack of success by WN, not a successful venture. Those fares with no ancillary are not sustainable and will force WN to eventually drop interisland flying. Not something to celebrate.


Wrong. Hawaii is WN's best performing market.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/07/ ... ext-month/

WN's closure of its EWR station frees up equipment to add LIH and ITO to its Hawaii service.

WN's biggest issue in its Hawaii service is the painfully slow bag drop in HNL, in which NI pax and CONUS pax are commingled and forced to wait 40 min. to drop bags. The elapsed time to drop bags and walk to the gate is longer than the flight from HNL to KOA.


He was commenting based on LF, which doesn't explain the yield. HI may be outperforming WN's expectations, but it's unrealistic to expect them to be even close to system average at this point in margins. WN typically waits for 3 years for a route to mature to profitable route. HI right now is a major priority in WN system, which means they are willing to live with below system margin performance as they build up market share.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2058
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:03 pm

tp, only WN mgmt knows current yields on the Hawaii service. I'll take the CEO's word that the LFs are the best in WN's network as a surrogate for "acceptable" yield.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4577
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:22 pm

9w748capt wrote:
chrisair wrote:
Can't wait for the requisite people posting on here about how the locals don't care for WN.

Meanwhile, the crews I know flying inter island legs are saying locals are 90% of the inter island pax outside of the KOA-HNL connector.and are thrilled to get pretzels.


That is seriously impressive if true. All we read here is about how the locals have some undying devotion to HA and will stay loyal at all costs. The WN effect may be overstated but there's no doubt WN's entry will significantly affect the dynamics of the inter-island market.


From experience meeting people all over Oahu, locals here actually feel like HA has taken advantage of the people for years and have been very open about how excited they are that WN is here. They’re more bitter than loyal. But I’m sure I’ll be told I’m wrong...again.


WPvsMW wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
Any of these cheap fares you see are a result of a lack of success by WN, not a successful venture. Those fares with no ancillary are not sustainable and will force WN to eventually drop interisland flying. Not something to celebrate.


Wrong. Hawaii is WN's best performing market.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/07/ ... ext-month/

WN's closure of its EWR station frees up equipment to add LIH and ITO to its Hawaii service.

WN's biggest issue in its Hawaii service is the painfully slow bag drop in HNL, in which NI pax and CONUS pax are commingled and forced to wait 40 min. to drop bags. The elapsed time to drop bags and walk to the gate is longer than the flight from HNL to KOA.


This airport presents a number of operational challenges that WN has had to work through. Staffing is also slowly catching up so hopefully we see some improvements soon.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FriscoHeavy
Topic Author
Posts: 1582
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:36 pm

tphuang wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
Any of these cheap fares you see are a result of a lack of success by WN, not a successful venture. Those fares with no ancillary are not sustainable and will force WN to eventually drop interisland flying. Not something to celebrate.


Wrong. Hawaii is WN's best performing market.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/07/ ... ext-month/

WN's closure of its EWR station frees up equipment to add LIH and ITO to its Hawaii service.

WN's biggest issue in its Hawaii service is the painfully slow bag drop in HNL, in which NI pax and CONUS pax are commingled and forced to wait 40 min. to drop bags. The elapsed time to drop bags and walk to the gate is longer than the flight from HNL to KOA.


He was commenting based on LF, which doesn't explain the yield. HI may be outperforming WN's expectations, but it's unrealistic to expect them to be even close to system average at this point in margins. WN typically waits for 3 years for a route to mature to profitable route. HI right now is a major priority in WN system, which means they are willing to live with below system margin performance as they build up market share.



Why can't you accept that Hawaii is actually doing very well for WN? There have been numerous reports now, from the CEO himself, down to employees about how well it's doing. I'm not saying every route is minting coin yet, but it's clear it is surpassing expectations and doing well.

I believe you will see Southwest as a major player intra-island 20 years from now, in addition to its Continental US - Hawaii routes.
Whatever
 
barney captain
Posts: 2210
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:17 pm

tphuang wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
Any of these cheap fares you see are a result of a lack of success by WN, not a successful venture. Those fares with no ancillary are not sustainable and will force WN to eventually drop interisland flying. Not something to celebrate.


Wrong. Hawaii is WN's best performing market.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/07/ ... ext-month/

WN's closure of its EWR station frees up equipment to add LIH and ITO to its Hawaii service.

WN's biggest issue in its Hawaii service is the painfully slow bag drop in HNL, in which NI pax and CONUS pax are commingled and forced to wait 40 min. to drop bags. The elapsed time to drop bags and walk to the gate is longer than the flight from HNL to KOA.


He was commenting based on LF, which doesn't explain the yield. HI may be outperforming WN's expectations, but it's unrealistic to expect them to be even close to system average at this point in margins. WN typically waits for 3 years for a route to mature to profitable route. HI right now is a major priority in WN system, which means they are willing to live with below system margin performance as they build up market share.



You want "proof"?

Expansion in the face 50+ grounded aircraft and at cost of closing EWR. Airlines (especially Southwest) typically don't push expansion during times like this into markets that aren't producing revenue. Kelly is a bean counter - when he speaks of robust, he's not referencing LF.

i've done nothing but HI flying since April - both interisland and from the mainland - our planes are full. My direct experience has been the locals love us. A lot. This isn't coming from the just our pax, it's with every conversation I have with them outside of the airport.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3529
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:19 pm

Those of you toeing the Gary Kelly line, the April loads are available from the government and each month will bring new data. Eventually the fare data will be available and the truth will be known.

April -
HNL-OAK 91%
OGG-OAK 84%
HNL-OGG 44%
 
barney captain
Posts: 2210
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:21 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
Those of you toeing the Gary Kelly line, the April loads are available from the government and each month will bring new data. Eventually the fare data will be available and the truth will be known.

April -
HNL-OAK 91%
OGG-OAK 84%
HNL-OGG 44%


April - our first month of service. Trust me, our loads are ridiculously high.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
User avatar
KanaHawaii
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:43 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:32 pm

Customers of interisland travel here are finding out that Southwest is a real-deal operator. While the walk from the transpac ticket counter to the gates is kinda long, I think the customer here is seeing that a little bit of a walk gets them a boatload of savings going neighbor island. The other thing is dependability. Since the start of Interisland Operations, there has been no "nightmare" stories on the 10 p.m. local news talking about people being stranded in Kona or Maui trying to get back to Honolulu. You heard these stories almost too often when it came to go! or Mokulele or Island Air. Point is that Southwest has thought through the process on interisland service and they know it all lands in the subject of dependable, on time service. Sounds familiar as both Hawaiian (and then Aloha) at various times post deregulation would strive for 100% on time reliability especially on its neighbor island flights. Now is Hawaiian doing the same? Not sure, again the nightmare stories are not coming out about them.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4577
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:06 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
Those of you toeing the Gary Kelly line, the April loads are available from the government and each month will bring new data. Eventually the fare data will be available and the truth will be known.

April -
HNL-OAK 91%
OGG-OAK 84%
HNL-OGG 44%


LOL HNL-OGG started on April 28. The first 5 days or so were really slow but it escalated quickly and flights have been consistently full since.
Last edited by Silver1SWA on Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3100
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest's (WN) Impact on Intra-Hawaii Fares

Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:16 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:

Wrong. Hawaii is WN's best performing market.
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/07/ ... ext-month/

WN's closure of its EWR station frees up equipment to add LIH and ITO to its Hawaii service.

WN's biggest issue in its Hawaii service is the painfully slow bag drop in HNL, in which NI pax and CONUS pax are commingled and forced to wait 40 min. to drop bags. The elapsed time to drop bags and walk to the gate is longer than the flight from HNL to KOA.


He was commenting based on LF, which doesn't explain the yield. HI may be outperforming WN's expectations, but it's unrealistic to expect them to be even close to system average at this point in margins. WN typically waits for 3 years for a route to mature to profitable route. HI right now is a major priority in WN system, which means they are willing to live with below system margin performance as they build up market share.



Why can't you accept that Hawaii is actually doing very well for WN? There have been numerous reports now, from the CEO himself, down to employees about how well it's doing. I'm not saying every route is minting coin yet, but it's clear it is surpassing expectations and doing well.

I believe you will see Southwest as a major player intra-island 20 years from now, in addition to its Continental US - Hawaii routes.


I don't see anywhere in my statement that said they are not doing well. It's pretty normal for new routes to be below average in margins. It would be very strange if they are winners from day 1. Gary Kelly once said that it takes 3 years for new routes to turn profitability. DAL was really great in that it only took one year.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos