oldannyboy
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Re: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:14 pm

VSMUT wrote:
ClipperMonsoon wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

The 787 isn't exactly quiet.


If the 787 isn't exactly quiet, then the 350 must not be that quiet either, right?, may I suggest if the noise bothers you SO much, perhaps if you ask kindly, the cockpit crew can shutdown the engines just for you!, doesnt the 350 come with those rollback engines,? Have a nice day vSMUT


I have yet to try the A350 myself yet, but everyone I know who tried it say it is much more quiet. Same for the A380. But I have been on multiple A330s, and they are much more quiet than the 787.


No, they are not. Not at all. This means -no offence- that you are really not very familiar with the flying characteristics of the types you mention....
Indeed, the A380 is the one type that is NOTICEABLY quieter than the 787, and everything else. Then the A350 comes as a number 2, and that is MARGINALLY quieter that the 787, depending on where you are seated. Then, no.3 is the 787, that offers a VERY quiet cabin indeed. The A330 is louder in-cabin than the 787, expect whether perhaps you are comparing first-row area for the A330 (where you often get a very bothersome hiss) and last row/galley area for the 787.
 
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Revelation
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Re: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:26 pm

tvh wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Yes, that is all very true. They are also among the last to get rid of there 747's. Some are 29 years old.

So two GE90-115Bs running at less than full thrust will be quieter than four 747-400 engines (GE CF6?) running close to full thrust, I would expect.

The twins do not need full thrust for flight as the plane needs to be able to take off on one engine, whereas the quads need to be able to take off on three engines.
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DL747400
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Re: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:28 pm

VSMUT wrote:
tvh wrote:
I don't like that they to buy old technology, when they could have bought more quiet planes.


The 787 isn't exactly quiet.


What in the world are you talking about? The 787 of any model is hands down the quietest new generation widebody in it's class.

If you've ever been out on the ramp (or better yet, out on the airfield service road) and had the opportunity to compare the 787 and A350 on takeoff, the 787 is very noticeably the quieter of the two. Based on anecdotal comments from passengers and crew, A350 may be quieter in the cabin, but the 787 is quieter for the communities it serves. People who live and work near large airports notice the difference.

A similar noise reduction is easily noted when you compare takeoff noise levels generated by the quiet, new A220s and A320/321neos versus the noisy, older 737NG and MD80/90s and even the A320/321ceos.
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VSMUT
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Re: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:46 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
tvh wrote:
I don't like that they to buy old technology, when they could have bought more quiet planes.


The 787 isn't exactly quiet.


VSMUT, sorry, do you actually fly on a regular basis, and on the same aircrafts other passengers fly on?


I am up to 9 trips on the 787 this year, 4 on 777s and 3 on A330s. You?
 
Spetsnaz55
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Re: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:58 pm

VSMUT wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

The 787 isn't exactly quiet.


VSMUT, sorry, do you actually fly on a regular basis, and on the same aircrafts other passengers fly on?


I am up to 9 trips on the 787 this year, 4 on 777s and 3 on A330s. You?


Lots of data on the internet shows the 787 as one of the quietest planes out today.. why continue arguing?
 
inkjet7
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Re: Rumour: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:15 pm

Jetty wrote:
It seems likely all those changes were part of the same deal that predates the first delivery. The AFKL group made this purchase, all other planes KL bought/leased themselves.

KLM only talked to Boeing about the last six after the internal AF/KL swap of A350's and B787's was finalised. AF had no plans to up-gauge those.
 
Jetty
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Re: Rumour: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:22 pm

inkjet7 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
It seems likely all those changes were part of the same deal that predates the first delivery. The AFKL group made this purchase, all other planes KL bought/leased themselves.

KLM only talked to Boeing about the last six after the internal AF/KL swap of A350's and B787's was finalised. AF had no plans to up-gauge those.

Announcement was at the same time at least as per the KL source above, just before the 1st delivery of the -10. Not saying your timeline isn’t true for the internal decisions ofc, that would make sense.
 
Eikie
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Re: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:28 pm

Spetsnaz55 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:

VSMUT, sorry, do you actually fly on a regular basis, and on the same aircrafts other passengers fly on?


I am up to 9 trips on the 787 this year, 4 on 777s and 3 on A330s. You?


Lots of data on the internet shows the 787 as one of the quietest planes out today.. why continue arguing?

Maybe there is a confusion about which noise they are taling about.
Noise for people on the ground,nor noise for people onboard.
Both don't have to be the lowest for the same plane.
 
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SQ22
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:41 pm

May I ask you to start a new thread in case you want to discuss the noise levels of 787? Thanks.
 
inkjet7
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Re: Rumour: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:15 pm

Jetty wrote:
inkjet7 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
It seems likely all those changes were part of the same deal that predates the first delivery. The AFKL group made this purchase, all other planes KL bought/leased themselves.

KLM only talked to Boeing about the last six after the internal AF/KL swap of A350's and B787's was finalised. AF had no plans to up-gauge those.

Announcement was at the same time at least as per the KL source above, just before the 1st delivery of the -10. Not saying your timeline isn’t true for the internal decisions ofc, that would make sense.


https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/prepar ... 787_10.htm
It says "we welcomed our very 1st Boeing 787-10... and: In the coming years, we will add 8 Boeing 787-10’s to our fleet."
 
Jetty
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Re: Rumour: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:03 pm

inkjet7 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
inkjet7 wrote:
KLM only talked to Boeing about the last six after the internal AF/KL swap of A350's and B787's was finalised. AF had no plans to up-gauge those.

Announcement was at the same time at least as per the KL source above, just before the 1st delivery of the -10. Not saying your timeline isn’t true for the internal decisions ofc, that would make sense.


https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/prepar ... 787_10.htm
It says "we welcomed our very 1st Boeing 787-10... and: In the coming years, we will add 8 Boeing 787-10’s to our fleet."

That’s just KLM being inconsistent. In this press release from just before the first delivery they already talk about 15 -10’s. https://nieuws.klm.com/de-air-france-kl ... andsvloot/ (In Dutch)
 
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seabosdca
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:54 pm

Noise level debates are frustrating because (a) different people hear different timbres of noise very differently and (b) noise changes so much with just small changes in location.

In any event, I can't imagine that Schiphol will punish KLM, its largest airline and the hometown one, for operating 777-300ERs. (747s might be a different story, but they're mostly being phased out.)
 
inkjet7
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Re: Rumour: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:02 pm

Jetty wrote:
inkjet7 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Announcement was at the same time at least as per the KL source above, just before the 1st delivery of the -10. Not saying your timeline isn’t true for the internal decisions ofc, that would make sense.


https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/prepar ... 787_10.htm
It says "we welcomed our very 1st Boeing 787-10... and: In the coming years, we will add 8 Boeing 787-10’s to our fleet."

That’s just KLM being inconsistent. In this press release from just before the first delivery they already talk about 15 -10’s. https://nieuws.klm.com/de-air-france-kl ... andsvloot/ (In Dutch)


... totale aantal Dreamliners op 28 (13 B787-9's en 15 B787's). No subtype specified.

Thee full press release: 'KLM presently operates 13 Boeing 787-9s and will receive its first Boeing 787-10 in June 2019. This fleet will further grow to a total of 21 Boeing 787s by the end of 2020 to which will be added the 6 Boeing 787s initially intended for Air France for a total of 27 aircraft.'.

No subtype specified. They couldn't do that yet.
 
IgorD
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:31 pm

Noise is hard to generalize, it depends indeed on where you seat and your own perception. In my experience, it also depends pretty much on the speed: a 77W flying at M.813 is very quiet, much quieter than anything else flying M.85 or faster. As you do not always have the speed data, comparing noise levels is even more challenging than the usual reference to the place where you seat.
 
juliuswong
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:48 am

Hi all, the thread is on KLM fleet order. Please stay on topic. Thanks!
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
Jetty
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Re: Rumour: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:11 am

inkjet7 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
inkjet7 wrote:

https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/prepar ... 787_10.htm
It says "we welcomed our very 1st Boeing 787-10... and: In the coming years, we will add 8 Boeing 787-10’s to our fleet."

That’s just KLM being inconsistent. In this press release from just before the first delivery they already talk about 15 -10’s. https://nieuws.klm.com/de-air-france-kl ... andsvloot/ (In Dutch)


... totale aantal Dreamliners op 28 (13 B787-9's en 15 B787's). No subtype specified.

Thee full press release: 'KLM presently operates 13 Boeing 787-9s and will receive its first Boeing 787-10 in June 2019. This fleet will further grow to a total of 21 Boeing 787s by the end of 2020 to which will be added the 6 Boeing 787s initially intended for Air France for a total of 27 aircraft.'.

No subtype specified. They couldn't do that yet.

It isn’t presented very straightforward indeed. But this makes it clear for any informed reader that the decision was already made at the time of writing:

KLM is dan ook blij de 787-vloot via deze ‘order swap’ uit te kunnen breiden. Deze extra Boeing 787-10's helpen KLM haar routenetwerk de komende jaren verder te ontwikkelen
 
Jetty
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:18 am

seabosdca wrote:
In any event, I can't imagine that Schiphol will punish KLM, its largest airline and the hometown one, for operating 777-300ERs. (747s might be a different story, but they're mostly being phased out.)

:checkmark: You can expect Schiphol and the Dutch government to make objective rules that favor KLM. This applies to the transfer taxes at AMS being less than the departure/arrival taxes, the proposed national ticket tax that doesn’t differentiate on distance but excludes transfer passengers, the non-tradability of AMS slots etc...
 
Jomar777
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Re: KLM Orders 2 x 777-300s and Converts 789s to 10s

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:04 am

VSMUT wrote:
ClipperMonsoon wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

The 787 isn't exactly quiet.


If the 787 isn't exactly quiet, then the 350 must not be that quiet either, right?, may I suggest if the noise bothers you SO much, perhaps if you ask kindly, the cockpit crew can shutdown the engines just for you!, doesnt the 350 come with those rollback engines,? Have a nice day vSMUT


I have yet to try the A350 myself yet, but everyone I know who tried it say it is much more quiet. Same for the A380. But I have been on multiple A330s, and they are much more quiet than the 787.


I have flown the A359 (and the A35K, fo that matter) as well as the B788 with Qatar Airways. I have flown KLM's and AC B789s and can guarantee that they have roughly the same level of noise. ut they are quieter than the B744s (never flew on a B748) and the B77W (which I have flown with loads of airlines incl KLM and Qatar Airways - I add these both only so for effects of like for like comparison).

It does not botter me, although BAs B744 is really THAT noisy and I mean it.

Can also say that KLM's choice for extra B77Ws (if confirmed) is more related to performance and capabilities related to their needs rather than purely noise levels...
 
CHRISBA35X
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:08 am

I don't care about noise.

What I do care about is getting on a big beautiful KLM 747 before they are gone. I enjoy the 787 and A350 but they aren't a 747. I try to avoid KL's 777s where possible as they are ten abreast. Their A330s and 787s are much more comfortable.

Price of progress I guess.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:21 pm

Boeing has now converted all remaining 787s to the 787-10s on their order book, except for the last 787-9 which is still going to AF. Boeing also booked an unidentified order for 2 777-300ER last month, so it's not a full confirmation of this story, but it's very likely that it is KLM.
 
marcogr12
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:19 pm

Instead of fighting over which airplane ...rumbles/screams/growls better during takeoff and landing, you're fighting over which one is more quiet..What kind of aviation lovers are you? Oh the kids of today... :)
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
CWL757
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:48 pm

Could any of the 77Ws be ex Jet birds?
A319, A320, 738, 743, 744, 752, 772, 788, C150, E175, E190, F70, R22
 
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BasilFawlty
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:26 pm

Ofcourse not, they’re getting brand new ones.
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factsonly
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:23 am

First KLM B787-10 TATL service to Houston on August 14th, 2019:

- 14 Aug 2019 AMS - IAH - AMS B78X PH-BKA
 
IWMBH
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:58 pm

Still no word about the -300ER order?
 
h1fl1er
Posts: 93
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Re: KLM Orders/Leasing 2 x 777-300s (unconfirmed) and Converts 789s to 10s (confirmed)

Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:16 pm

figure more and more 89s will convert to 78X as time goes on and the RW performance of the jet becomes disseminated.

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