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Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:51 pm
by amcnd
This “shuffle” does not effect SkyWest CRJ operations or flying footprint. This is all “E175 shuffling”. In fact it actually pushes the 900/700 flying to MSP/DTW from SLC (thats already been announced at OO.. (except for the Aspen flying)..

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:03 am
by jbs2886
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Skywest isn't going to be getting out of DTW & MSP, they are heavily entrenched within the core operations of these hubs.

The intent is to get OO out of JFK/LGA/BOS.

Actually, I have heard the 175's will be leaving those airports soon.

That would make sense, but the OO CR2s aren't going to be leaving DTW & MSP anytime soon.


So what goes to those airports instead? CR9s and A220s?

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:10 am
by evank516
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Skywest isn't going to be getting out of DTW & MSP, they are heavily entrenched within the core operations of these hubs.

The intent is to get OO out of JFK/LGA/BOS.

Actually, I have heard the 175's will be leaving those airports soon.

That would make sense, but the OO CR2s aren't going to be leaving DTW & MSP anytime soon.


The 175s will be leaving JFK/LGA/BOS? If that's the case my guess is more A220 flying as DL takes more deliveries.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:27 am
by DiamondFlyer
evank516 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
flightsimer wrote:
Actually, I have heard the 175's will be leaving those airports soon.

That would make sense, but the OO CR2s aren't going to be leaving DTW & MSP anytime soon.


The 175s will be leaving JFK/LGA/BOS? If that's the case my guess is more A220 flying as DL takes more deliveries.


No flying is going to change. The only thing that will change is the operating carrier and the tail number on the planes. The OO 175s will mostly move west, while the former CP, soon to be operated by YX 175s will move east.

I wouldn’t expect any change in CR2 flying as you see it today.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:37 am
by lightsaber
Looks confirmed:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... am-460128/

GoJet and Compass flying cut:
"The change will leave Delta-owned subsidiary Endeavor Air and regional powerhouses SkyWest Airlines and Republic Airways as Delta's only feeder carriers, the company says."

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:56 am
by n7371f
Well the worst kept secret is finally out. Compass knew its days were numbered for at least a year, if not more. Flying in the US West will be so much more pleasurable and reliable with Compass out of the DL system.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:19 am
by rj1385
I am assuming this will be the end of Compass and their operating certificate could be worth much more in a sale to say Midwest or "Moxy"

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:47 am
by alasizon
rj1385 wrote:
I am assuming this will be the end of Compass and their operating certificate could be worth much more in a sale to say Midwest or "Moxy"


That assumes the AA assets go back to Envoy but Envoy may not be in a position in time to accept the planes back and AA may extend the CP contract another couple years when that time comes.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:01 am
by uadc8contrail
n7371f wrote:
Well the worst kept secret is finally out. Compass knew its days were numbered for at least a year, if not more. Flying in the US West will be so much more pleasurable and reliable with Compass out of the DL system.


n7371f
if only UA would give TSH the boot as well, Hulas' flying circus couldnt find their way out of a wet paper bag if they were given a map, i know that there are others out there that are just as bad but DL is going in the right direction and getting more of a grasp on their "elite"partners.. UA cares about is who will fly for the cheapest and operational reliabilty takes a back seat. karma is a great thing and hopefully it makes its way to UA when it comes to TSH.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:13 am
by F9Animal
I am saddened to hear about Compass. I bet the employees are stressed to the max. :(

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:14 am
by Scarebus34
uadc8contrail wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Well the worst kept secret is finally out. Compass knew its days were numbered for at least a year, if not more. Flying in the US West will be so much more pleasurable and reliable with Compass out of the DL system.


n7371f
if only UA would give TSH the boot as well, its a 3 ring circus every day with these people, i know that there are others out there that are just as bad but DL is going in the right direction and getting more of a grasp on their "elite"partners that only UA cares about is who will fly for the cheapest and operational reliabilty takes a back seat. TSH knew for awhile that if that had a chance to keep themselves in the game all they had to do was get the reliabilty better, stevie wonder could have seen this coming

Agreed, TranStates and GoJet are terrible... Compass isn't any better. Their performance on the Delta side has been horrendous. Unfortunately, its increasingly clear that United doesn't care about performance. Yes, they like to play it up, but structurally they do not care.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:15 am
by uadc8contrail
F9Animal wrote:
I am saddened to hear about Compass. I bet the employees are stressed to the max. :(


stressed to the max? how about the DL frontline employees that were stressed to the max rebooking passengers when compass was always late due to mech or crew issues

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:33 am
by SierraPacific
uadc8contrail wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I am saddened to hear about Compass. I bet the employees are stressed to the max. :(


stressed to the max? how about the DL frontline employees that were stressed to the max rebooking passengers when compass was always late due to mech or crew issues


To be fair, the schedules daddy delta gave compass was insane. They would have to fly aircraft for days away from a maintenance station and would have to deadhead crews to SLC every day. Compass was a great group of people so I hope they are able to land on their feet.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:25 am
by n7371f
SierraPacific wrote:
uadc8contrail wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I am saddened to hear about Compass. I bet the employees are stressed to the max. :(


stressed to the max? how about the DL frontline employees that were stressed to the max rebooking passengers when compass was always late due to mech or crew issues


To be fair, the schedules daddy delta gave compass was insane. They would have to fly aircraft for days away from a maintenance station and would have to deadhead crews to SLC every day. Compass was a great group of people so I hope they are able to land on their feet.


Not true. Compass built a maintenance hanger in SJC for both DL and AA ops and put a crew and maintenance base in PHX as well. Performance didn't improve enough. And to be honest, street talk last year has been that TSH knew the deal was done and wasn't spending any $ beyond the minimum to keep the operation going.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:18 am
by MSPNWA
n7371f wrote:
Flying in the US West will be so much more pleasurable and reliable with Compass out of the DL system.


Hardly. If DL wanted a strong-performing Compass, they held the cards to do so. Says all we need to know.

Compass was born out of whipsawing, and now it has been the one whipsawed.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:17 am
by BTV290
n7371f wrote:
Well the worst kept secret is finally out. Compass knew its days were numbered for at least a year, if not more. Flying in the US West will be so much more pleasurable and reliable with Compass out of the DL system.


I agree. Operationally they're a nightmare. As someone else said, though, really lovely people trying their best.
I wonder how these aging aircraft are going to impact Republic's reliability once the transfer is made. I'll be curious how many of their issues are due to the planes themselves, and how many are due to their upkeep.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:49 am
by FlyinHigh19
Glad to see Go Jet leaving. Their reliability was questionable. Always have MTC issues/

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:56 pm
by mountainwest90
Here is announcement from OO confirming the news.

https://www.skywest.com/assets/Uploads/PressReleases/SkyWest-Inc.-Announces-New-Flying-Agreements-with-Delta-Air-Lines.pdf


Also details what new aircraft they expect to get out of the deal. Looks like 6 used aircraft, likely from Compass, and 7 new E175s instead of the 7 CRJ900 that were on order.

SkyWest, Inc. (NASDAQ: SKYW) (“SkyWest”) today
announced an agreement with Delta Air Lines (“Delta”) to operate six used E175 aircraft under a
multi-year contract scheduled to begin in early 2020. The aircraft are financed by Delta and to
be sourced from a regional operator transitioning out of Delta Connection.
SkyWest has also agreed to purchase and operate seven new E175 aircraft for Delta instead of
SkyWest operating seven new CRJ900 aircraft that were to be financed by Delta and scheduled
for delivery in 2020. The seven E175 aircraft have delivery dates scheduled from late 2019 to
mid-2020.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:50 pm
by capitalflyer
Best guess for realignment. SKW will take over all of CPZ flying, as this is all out west. SKW will leave NE corridor to RPA (JFK/LGA/BOS/DCA) and will swap some east CRJ200 flying for EDV CRJ200 flying out west(ie., ATW, AVL, MYR, SWF, TUL, YWG). GJS flying will mostly go to Endeavor, with SKW picking up FAR, OMA, AUS.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:54 pm
by Whiteguy
I’m wondering, with this realignment and the planned JV with Westjet, if some routes will be taken over by Westjet/Encore in the future. Do Compass or Gojet operate any transboarder routes for DL??

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:03 pm
by MIflyer12
Sure. DTW-YUL gets 3x GoJet and 1x Endeavor, for example.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:11 pm
by floridaflyboy
BTV290 wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Well the worst kept secret is finally out. Compass knew its days were numbered for at least a year, if not more. Flying in the US West will be so much more pleasurable and reliable with Compass out of the DL system.


I agree. Operationally they're a nightmare. As someone else said, though, really lovely people trying their best.
I wonder how these aging aircraft are going to impact Republic's reliability once the transfer is made. I'll be curious how many of their issues are due to the planes themselves, and how many are due to their upkeep.


Many aircraft in Republic's fleet are much older than the Compass aircraft. There have been past aircraft moved from Compass to Republic (E70s) and they have not been problem child aircraft from my understanding.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:13 pm
by KCaviator
BTV290 wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Well the worst kept secret is finally out. Compass knew its days were numbered for at least a year, if not more. Flying in the US West will be so much more pleasurable and reliable with Compass out of the DL system.


I agree. Operationally they're a nightmare. As someone else said, though, really lovely people trying their best.
I wonder how these aging aircraft are going to impact Republic's reliability once the transfer is made. I'll be curious how many of their issues are due to the planes themselves, and how many are due to their upkeep.


YX also has 100 EJets on order. The older Compass birds, along with the UA 170s, will be replaced.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:27 pm
by DiamondFlyer
So all the pieces have fallen into place, in terms of what is moving where.

GoJets has a net loss of 20 CR7, with the 7 CR9 remaining on contract for now at Delta. 13 of the 20 CR7 go to Endeavor, with the remainder being replaced by 175SC at Skywest.

Compass has a net loss of 36 175s, 30 going to Republic and 6 going to Skywest.

Skywest has a net gain of 6 airplanes, as they take the 6 Compass 175s and trade 7 900SC for 7 175SC.

Republic has a net gain of 30 airplanes, all 30 175s coming from Compass.

Endeavor has a net gain of 20 airplanes, 13 CR7s coming from GoJet and 7 factory new orders of CR9SC being transferred from Skywest.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:32 pm
by KCaviator
DiamondFlyer wrote:
So all the pieces have fallen into place, in terms of what is moving where.

GoJets has a net loss of 20 CR7, with the 7 CR9 remaining on contract for now at Delta. 13 of the 20 CR7 go to Endeavor, with the remainder being replaced by 175SC at Skywest.

Compass has a net loss of 36 175s, 30 going to Republic and 6 going to Skywest.

Skywest has a net gain of 6 airplanes, as they take the 6 Compass 175s and trade 7 900SC for 7 175SC.

Republic has a net gain of 3 airplanes, all 30 175s coming from Compass.

Endeavor has a net gain of 20 airplanes, 13 CR7s coming from GoJet and 7 factory new orders of CR9SC being transferred from Skywest.


How does Republic only have a net gain of 3?

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:36 pm
by Web
capitalflyer wrote:
Best guess for realignment. SKW will take over all of CPZ flying, as this is all out west. SKW will leave NE corridor to RPA (JFK/LGA/BOS/DCA) and will swap some east CRJ200 flying for EDV CRJ200 flying out west(ie., ATW, AVL, MYR, SWF, TUL, YWG). GJS flying will mostly go to Endeavor, with SKW picking up FAR, OMA, AUS.

Regarding OO CR2s, I have heard from DCI VPs that OO has a minimum number of tails & flights to operate to keep the at-risk & EAS flying out of DTW & MSP viable, so I do not see much reduction in their CR2 footprint in those markets. I do, however, see OO shifting some of their CR7 & CR9 flying back out west to cover the CP flying, as the E7Ws from NYC will not be sufficient to do so, especially if DL grows their western footprint at all with regional flying.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:50 pm
by ScottB
floridaflyboy wrote:
Many aircraft in Republic's fleet are much older than the Compass aircraft. There have been past aircraft moved from Compass to Republic (E70s) and they have not been problem child aircraft from my understanding.


In fact, Republic has or had some of the very first E170s off the line -- they bought the E170s US Airways had operated with mainline pilots but masquerading as US Airways Express. Quite a few of these have gone on to other operators (S7 mostly, it seems) but there still seem to be a handful in the fleet. They showed up quite frequently on the DL Shuttle flights between LGA and BOS/DCA.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:55 pm
by heretothere
DiamondFlyer wrote:
So all the pieces have fallen into place, in terms of what is moving where.

GoJets has a net loss of 20 CR7, with the 7 CR9 remaining on contract for now at Delta. 13 of the 20 CR7 go to Endeavor, with the remainder being replaced by 175SC at Skywest.

Compass has a net loss of 36 175s, 30 going to Republic and 6 going to Skywest.

Skywest has a net gain of 6 airplanes, as they take the 6 Compass 175s and trade 7 900SC for 7 175SC.

Republic has a net gain of 30 airplanes, all 30 175s coming from Compass.

Endeavor has a net gain of 20 airplanes, 13 CR7s coming from GoJet and 7 factory new orders of CR9SC being transferred from Skywest.


Where are you seeing that the 175s are going to be SC? To me they look like replacements for the 7 GoJet CR9s.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:57 pm
by CRJ200flyer
Web wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
Best guess for realignment. SKW will take over all of CPZ flying, as this is all out west. SKW will leave NE corridor to RPA (JFK/LGA/BOS/DCA) and will swap some east CRJ200 flying for EDV CRJ200 flying out west(ie., ATW, AVL, MYR, SWF, TUL, YWG). GJS flying will mostly go to Endeavor, with SKW picking up FAR, OMA, AUS.

Regarding OO CR2s, I have heard from DCI VPs that OO has a minimum number of tails & flights to operate to keep the at-risk & EAS flying out of DTW & MSP viable, so I do not see much reduction in their CR2 footprint in those markets. I do, however, see OO shifting some of their CR7 & CR9 flying back out west to cover the CP flying, as the E7Ws from NYC will not be sufficient to do so, especially if DL grows their western footprint at all with regional flying.


Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much at risk flying is in DTW?

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:58 pm
by DiamondFlyer
heretothere wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
So all the pieces have fallen into place, in terms of what is moving where.

GoJets has a net loss of 20 CR7, with the 7 CR9 remaining on contract for now at Delta. 13 of the 20 CR7 go to Endeavor, with the remainder being replaced by 175SC at Skywest.

Compass has a net loss of 36 175s, 30 going to Republic and 6 going to Skywest.

Skywest has a net gain of 6 airplanes, as they take the 6 Compass 175s and trade 7 900SC for 7 175SC.

Republic has a net gain of 30 airplanes, all 30 175s coming from Compass.

Endeavor has a net gain of 20 airplanes, 13 CR7s coming from GoJet and 7 factory new orders of CR9SC being transferred from Skywest.


Where are you seeing that the 175s are going to be SC? To me they look like replacements for the 7 GoJet CR9s.


Embraer press release confirms them as 175SC. There is no replacement for the G7 CR9s as they’re not ending the contract, yet...
https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e175-jets

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:18 pm
by heretothere
DiamondFlyer wrote:
heretothere wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
So all the pieces have fallen into place, in terms of what is moving where.

GoJets has a net loss of 20 CR7, with the 7 CR9 remaining on contract for now at Delta. 13 of the 20 CR7 go to Endeavor, with the remainder being replaced by 175SC at Skywest.

Compass has a net loss of 36 175s, 30 going to Republic and 6 going to Skywest.

Skywest has a net gain of 6 airplanes, as they take the 6 Compass 175s and trade 7 900SC for 7 175SC.

Republic has a net gain of 30 airplanes, all 30 175s coming from Compass.

Endeavor has a net gain of 20 airplanes, 13 CR7s coming from GoJet and 7 factory new orders of CR9SC being transferred from Skywest.


Where are you seeing that the 175s are going to be SC? To me they look like replacements for the 7 GoJet CR9s.


Embraer press release confirms them as 175SC. There is no replacement for the G7 CR9s as they’re not ending the contract, yet...
https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e175-jets


Hmm, then I’m confused. Correct me if I’m wrong but it looks like 56 aircraft are leaving/moving (36 CP & 20 G7) but 63 aircraft are being received:

-20 EV (13 CR7 & 7 CR9SC)
-13 OO (6 E75 & 7 E75SC)
-30 YX (the other 30 CP E75s)

If DL is scoped out, shouldn’t there be 7 more aircraft leaving?

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:17 pm
by mountainwest90
CRJ200flyer wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much at risk flying is in DTW?


Out of DTW, these are the at risk markets for OO:

LSE - La Crosse, WI
MLI - Moline, IL
ESC - Escanaba, MI
IMT Iron Mountain, MI
MQT - Marquette, MI
CIU - Sault Ste Marie, MI
PLN - Pellston, MI
APN - Alpena, MI
FWA - Ft Wayne, IN
SCE - State College, PA
ABE - Allentown, PA
BGM - Binghamton, NY
ITH - Ithica, NY
SWF - Newburgh, NY

Might have missed one but I think that's it.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:20 pm
by UnitedTristar
floridaflyboy wrote:
BTV290 wrote:

Many aircraft in Republic's fleet are much older than the Compass aircraft. There have been past aircraft moved from Compass to Republic (E70s) and they have not been problem child aircraft from my understanding.


Well outside the months on end they spent in maintenance to get them upto standards before entering service and the one involved in the hanger fire...

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:27 pm
by DiamondFlyer
heretothere wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
heretothere wrote:

Where are you seeing that the 175s are going to be SC? To me they look like replacements for the 7 GoJet CR9s.


Embraer press release confirms them as 175SC. There is no replacement for the G7 CR9s as they’re not ending the contract, yet...
https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e175-jets


Hmm, then I’m confused. Correct me if I’m wrong but it looks like 56 aircraft are leaving/moving (36 CP & 20 G7) but 63 aircraft are being received:

-20 EV (13 CR7 & 7 CR9SC)
-13 OO (6 E75 & 7 E75SC)
-30 YX (the other 30 CP E75s)

If DL is scoped out, shouldn’t there be 7 more aircraft leaving?


The 7 CR9SC were previously announced to be operated by OO, which was facilitated by them removing CR7s from their fleet.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:35 pm
by KlimaBXsst
Points of interest

1) Skywest is a power house
2) AA DL UA ownership structure of Republic seems as if it has lasted longer than I expected.
3) Republic ownership structure? Don’t the other regionals see this as somewhat of a competitive free market issue?
4) Trans States Holding a buyout candidate now. If who by who Air Wisconsin’s parent?
5) Trans States Holdings wow and why any more?
6) Compass certificate going?
7) Are employees of Tran States Holdings:
•Compass
•Tran States
•Gojet
all on a single seniority list like Republic Airways Holdings yet? Redundancies are not looking good.
8) Are any regional airlines or parent companies having issues recruiting employees; in which Tran States Holding ready made workforce would be an asset?

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:49 pm
by Scarebus34
KlimaBXsst wrote:
Points of interest

1) Skywest is a power house
2) AA DL UA ownership structure of Republic seems as if it has lasted longer than I expected.
3) Republic ownership structure? Don’t the other regionals see this as somewhat of a competitive free market issue?
4) Trans States Holding a buyout candidate now. If who by who Air Wisconsin’s parent?
5) Trans States Holdings wow and why any more?
6) Compass certificate going?
7) Are employees of Tran States Holdings:
•Compass
•Tran States
•Gojet
all on a single seniority list like Republic Airways Holdings yet? Redundancies are not looking good.
8) Are any regional airlines or parent companies having issues recruiting employees; in which Tran States Holding ready made workforce would be an asset?

1) OO needs to fix their performance. It’s been terrible lately.
4) Trans States already tried to be bought out by Republic and UA blocked it. Hulas is probably going to try and cash out anyway possible.
6) Compass still operates 20 175 for AA so the certificate isn’t going anywhere.
7) No.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:03 pm
by alasizon
Web wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:
Best guess for realignment. SKW will take over all of CPZ flying, as this is all out west. SKW will leave NE corridor to RPA (JFK/LGA/BOS/DCA) and will swap some east CRJ200 flying for EDV CRJ200 flying out west(ie., ATW, AVL, MYR, SWF, TUL, YWG). GJS flying will mostly go to Endeavor, with SKW picking up FAR, OMA, AUS.

Regarding OO CR2s, I have heard from DCI VPs that OO has a minimum number of tails & flights to operate to keep the at-risk & EAS flying out of DTW & MSP viable, so I do not see much reduction in their CR2 footprint in those markets. I do, however, see OO shifting some of their CR7 & CR9 flying back out west to cover the CP flying, as the E7Ws from NYC will not be sufficient to do so, especially if DL grows their western footprint at all with regional flying.


For what it is worth, we all know that OO doesn't get to decide where they are moving equipment to, that is all done by the DL Network Planning group. Sure OO gets to have impact on some routings for MX purposes but that is about it. My guess is you'll also see some of the E75s leaving ATL to help backfill SEA. Between the NYC & ATL birds, combined with some better re-flows, they should be able to accommodate the old CP schedule pretty well without shifting much to CR7/CR9s.

Scarebus34 wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
1) Skywest is a power house

1) OO needs to fix their performance. It’s been terrible lately.

OO's performance has been getting slaughtered because of how spread out they have been and the number of points each aircraft is touching over any given trip between MX bases and the way crews had to be utilized for the summer (schedules were not optimized the way they could have been due to mismatches between number of crews and number of planes at each base). When you are deadheading crews between hubs in the middle of trips, that is going to be a headwind to the schedule.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:07 pm
by heretothere
DiamondFlyer wrote:
heretothere wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

Embraer press release confirms them as 175SC. There is no replacement for the G7 CR9s as they’re not ending the contract, yet...
https://embraer.com/global/en/news?slug ... -e175-jets


Hmm, then I’m confused. Correct me if I’m wrong but it looks like 56 aircraft are leaving/moving (36 CP & 20 G7) but 63 aircraft are being received:

-20 EV (13 CR7 & 7 CR9SC)
-13 OO (6 E75 & 7 E75SC)
-30 YX (the other 30 CP E75s)

If DL is scoped out, shouldn’t there be 7 more aircraft leaving?


The 7 CR9SC were previously announced to be operated by OO, which was facilitated by them removing CR7s from their fleet.


Oh right, that makes sense. Do you know how many OO CR7s will be left in service with DL after all the shuffling and deliveries are finished?

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:21 pm
by amcnd
MIflyer12 wrote:
Sure. DTW-YUL gets 3x GoJet and 1x Endeavor, for example.



That route shifts to OO....

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
by DiamondFlyer
heretothere wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
heretothere wrote:

Hmm, then I’m confused. Correct me if I’m wrong but it looks like 56 aircraft are leaving/moving (36 CP & 20 G7) but 63 aircraft are being received:

-20 EV (13 CR7 & 7 CR9SC)
-13 OO (6 E75 & 7 E75SC)
-30 YX (the other 30 CP E75s)

If DL is scoped out, shouldn’t there be 7 more aircraft leaving?


The 7 CR9SC were previously announced to be operated by OO, which was facilitated by them removing CR7s from their fleet.


Oh right, that makes sense. Do you know how many OO CR7s will be left in service with DL after all the shuffling and deliveries are finished?


I think the number is 6, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

amcnd wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Sure. DTW-YUL gets 3x GoJet and 1x Endeavor, for example.



That route shifts to OO....

It could, and probably more likely, shift to 9E. Or it might move to YX, who knows at this point

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:52 pm
by alasizon
DiamondFlyer wrote:
heretothere wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

The 7 CR9SC were previously announced to be operated by OO, which was facilitated by them removing CR7s from their fleet.


Oh right, that makes sense. Do you know how many OO CR7s will be left in service with DL after all the shuffling and deliveries are finished?


I think the number is 6, but I'm not 100% sure on that.


Seems silly to keep such a small fleet of six just to serve ASE (the only place that actually needs the 700 specifically) going forward.

FWIW, I count that there should be 9 leftover (there were three 900s that were supposed to leave as well) but I'm not 100% sure.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:35 pm
by DiamondFlyer
alasizon wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
heretothere wrote:

Oh right, that makes sense. Do you know how many OO CR7s will be left in service with DL after all the shuffling and deliveries are finished?


I think the number is 6, but I'm not 100% sure on that.


Seems silly to keep such a small fleet of six just to serve ASE (the only place that actually needs the 700 specifically) going forward.

FWIW, I count that there should be 9 leftover (there were three 900s that were supposed to leave as well) but I'm not 100% sure.


There are 9 CR9SC's left to be delivered, IIRC, each one of them has a CR7 that's leaving to bring them on. 15 in service today - 9, is where I came up with 6.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:57 pm
by amcnd
9 is enough for Aspen. UA has more Aspen flights. Thats why there are 19 left for them...

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:23 pm
by alasizon
amcnd wrote:
9 is enough for Aspen. UA has more Aspen flights. Thats why there are 19 left for them...


Its not whether or not it is enough for ASE but rather whether the opportunity cost of serving ASE is greater than the opportunity cost of the services possible if they switched to CR9/E75s (70 seat versions of course). Not that anyone other than 4B currently serves TEX, but as I recall the 900/175 would have performance issues there as well when taking off to the East.

KCaviator wrote:
YX also has 100 EJets on order. The older Compass birds, along with the UA 170s, will be replaced.


The older Compass birds are just as old as about half of the 175s YX operates so not a big concern. Plus the 100 on order were intended for expansion as opposed to replacing birds they already have so I'd expect most of that 100 will go towards replacing the UA 170s (six more seats pays a bit better) and going after the YV IAD flying.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:29 pm
by amcnd
The CRJ 700 is the only regional aircraft able to do aspen right now... besides the Q400 and Delta and UA don’t use them... its not taking off its single engine missed climb requirements...

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:12 am
by orcajet
To be clear RE: the ASE flying it cannot be switched to a 175/900 currently due to local regulations, it is more than just an airport performance issue. Pitkin County has put specific regulations in place with a list of acceptable aircraft for operation from ASE. Until that changes the CR7 will stay no matter how much DL's brand team hates the single lav.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:44 am
by alasizon
orcajet wrote:
To be clear RE: the ASE flying it cannot be switched to a 175/900 currently due to local regulations, it is more than just an airport performance issue. Pitkin County has put specific regulations in place with a list of acceptable aircraft for operation from ASE. Until that changes the CR7 will stay no matter how much DL's brand team hates the single lav.


My point was that if the opportunity cost of serving ASE (and as such having to be stuck with CR7s in the fleet) may be more than not having an additional few larger frames in their fleet. DL could simply choose not to serve ASE if they can make better returns through having additional large(r) RJs in their fleet. Not that I think they would do that but if they figure out that it makes them better revenue in the short run (eventually ASE will be able to accommodate larger aircraft) then it makes better business sense to not service ASE.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:25 am
by INFINITI329
FlyingElvii wrote:
ScottB wrote:
ethernal wrote:
I'm curious how this will impact Delta in the long run with their regional operations. I do believe that there will be short term operational benefits, but at the same time, by reducing the number of carriers and creating geographic regions for them they are creating their own vendor lock-in that may result in increasing costs and lower performance in the long run.


Vendor lock-in is indeed a potential problem, but with consolidation in the regional segment over the past decades, in part encouraged by the network carriers themselves, there just aren't many options for switching vendors in any event, particularly in the case of larger regional operators like SkyWest (which owns EV) or Republic. G7 and CP are both owned by Trans States and the only other independent regional is Mesa (LOL).

Delta, of course, owns 9E. If they're going to rely on two outsourced regionals, OO and YX are probably their best options at this point anyway.

Bedford said early last year that there were "economies of scale" to be gained on the Delta side. More planes of the same type, lower costs spread among more flying.


im comfused by what he meant..they operate one airplane type

The CP PHX base will definitely close once DL flying winds down. And I assume SW will increase the size of their PHX base to accommodate the additional 175 flying. Currently a CRJ base

When is CP's contract up with AA? That is the next one to watch.

I have mentioned before on the site, I would like to see SW make a run after YV but the chances of that are slim

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:26 am
by floridaflyboy
UnitedTristar wrote:
floridaflyboy wrote:
BTV290 wrote:

Many aircraft in Republic's fleet are much older than the Compass aircraft. There have been past aircraft moved from Compass to Republic (E70s) and they have not been problem child aircraft from my understanding.


Well outside the months on end they spent in maintenance to get them upto standards before entering service and the one involved in the hanger fire...


Hmm, those must be the fastest months that ever happened in the history of the world. Took them next to no time before they started cropping up on the line. And if you seriously think a prior operator is responsible for a hangar fire in the new operator's hangar, then you can't be reasoned with, genius.

Re: Somewhat confirmed: Delta ending contract with GoJet, Compass

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:27 am
by KCaviator
alasizon wrote:
amcnd wrote:
9 is enough for Aspen. UA has more Aspen flights. Thats why there are 19 left for them...


Its not whether or not it is enough for ASE but rather whether the opportunity cost of serving ASE is greater than the opportunity cost of the services possible if they switched to CR9/E75s (70 seat versions of course). Not that anyone other than 4B currently serves TEX, but as I recall the 900/175 would have performance issues there as well when taking off to the East.

KCaviator wrote:
YX also has 100 EJets on order. The older Compass birds, along with the UA 170s, will be replaced.


The older Compass birds are just as old as about half of the 175s YX operates so not a big concern. Plus the 100 on order were intended for expansion as opposed to replacing birds they already have so I'd expect most of that 100 will go towards replacing the UA 170s (six more seats pays a bit better) and going after the YV IAD flying.


If some of the 100 on order do replace the UA 170s, they’d be configured as E175SC’s (70 seats). UA is maxed out on 76-seat RJs.