User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23739
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:39 pm

After more than a year back and forth and over the objection of employee unions, the Thai Transport Ministry has given the green for Thai Airways to purchase or lease 38 new aircraft.

Thai Airways gets all clear to boost fleet
https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/17 ... oost-fleet

Previously TG said it seeks to replace its older medium/long haul aircraft while also allowing the fleet to eventually grow from current 100'ish frames to 125. The company hopes to receive the new frames within a 2-5 year period.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4414
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:47 pm

TG certainly have many older/less efficient frames some of which are overdue for replacement such as non ER 777-200/300s, 747-400s, A333s.

Unfortunately however if history is any example, the new acquisitions won't do much for fleet streamlining. They probably will pursue mix A + B models, continuing their long history of having multiple frames in relatively small quantities.
mercure f-wtcc
 
xwb777
Posts: 431
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:54 pm

Here is my thought:

A321NEO
A339/A359/A3510
B779

If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.
 
eurotrader85
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:45 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:13 pm

mercure1 wrote:

Unfortunately however if history is any example, the new acquisitions won't do much for fleet streamlining. They probably will pursue mix A + B models, continuing their long history of having multiple frames in relatively small quantities.


Yes, as ever will be a politically sensitive order that keeps both the Europeans and the Americans on side.

Any thoughts or news on what they will do with their A380s? Not quite the same efficiency problem as their knackered out 772/747s but surely a balance sheet drain all the same, all be it a flagship aircraft for the state run carrier.
 
User avatar
MrHMSH
Posts: 2455
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:24 pm

mercure1 wrote:
TG certainly have many older/less efficient frames some of which are overdue for replacement such as non ER 777-200/300s, 747-400s, A333s.

Unfortunately however if history is any example, the new acquisitions won't do much for fleet streamlining. They probably will pursue mix A + B models, continuing their long history of having multiple frames in relatively small quantities.


The A333 fleet is quite young, the oldest is only 10 years old.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:26 pm

Replacing the 20+ year old 777s as well as 747-400s needs to be done. While the 747s are newer than the 777-200/777-300s (non-ER), there aren’t many 747-400s left in passenger service without solid replacement plans. Thai got late build 747-400s, but they aren’t the most efficient planes anymore compared to 787s and A350s
 
sabby
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:44 pm

The 747s need to go first. Then the classic 777s, although they are currently used on very short regional routes so they can wait a few more years. The 77E are not that old as well and I think they'll order more 789s/A359s to replace them eventually. For 747 replacements, I predict either 779 or A35K or maybe even a mix of both. For classic 777 replacements, a mix of A339s and 787-10s. Fascinating Airlines for us avgeeks.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4320
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:57 pm

xwb777 wrote:
If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.


Or some of those A350-900s, that seems to be struggling to be put in use by those who ordered them, such at Hong Kong Airlines etc
 
fessor
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:41 pm

xwb777 wrote:
Here is my thought:

A321NEO
A339/A359/A3510
B779

If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.


TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.

I see A220 for small domestic routes and maybe for Koh Samui.
A320Neo for regional and Domestic
A321NEO LR for longer flights.
B737 max10 for regional High demand routes
B787-9 for Australian routes.
B787-10 for Chinese routes.
A339 for Japanese routes
A359 for long haul.
A3510 for high demand long haul

4 of each makes 36 planes and then they need 2 more could be 2 B778 just to be able to fly USA non stop.
 
Antarius
Posts: 1652
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:03 pm

fessor wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Here is my thought:

A321NEO
A339/A359/A3510
B779

If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.


TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.



Since when has TG used common sense or commonality to determine their fleet composition?
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR MAA KTM
 
kriskim
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:44 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:29 pm

fessor wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Here is my thought:

A321NEO
A339/A359/A3510
B779

If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.


TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.

I see A220 for small domestic routes and maybe for Koh Samui.
A320Neo for regional and Domestic
A321NEO LR for longer flights.
B737 max10 for regional High demand routes
B787-9 for Australian routes.
B787-10 for Chinese routes.
A339 for Japanese routes
A359 for long haul.
A3510 for high demand long haul

4 of each makes 36 planes and then they need 2 more could be 2 B778 just to be able to fly USA non stop.


For Australia:

787 for PER (currently A330) and BNE (currently 77E)
A350 for MEL and maybe SYD

Though I’m still unsure what TG ultimately decides for SYD as they are still using the 747’s, the 77W would be an ideal replacement. Apparently having First to SYD is a must so maybe they might even operate the A380’s to SYD. But there were earlier plans to make SYD 2 daily A350, this was before the reductions.

TG last year reduced its SYD services to daily, MEL to 11 weekly and BNE to 4 weekly. Only MEL services has since been reinstated to 2 daily using the A350.
A world built upon connectivity.
 
A350OZ
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:20 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:35 pm

fessor wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Here is my thought:

A321NEO
A339/A359/A3510
B779

If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.


TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.

I see A220 for small domestic routes and maybe for Koh Samui.
A320Neo for regional and Domestic
A321NEO LR for longer flights.
B737 max10 for regional High demand routes
B787-9 for Australian routes.
B787-10 for Chinese routes.
A339 for Japanese routes
A359 for long haul.
A3510 for high demand long haul

4 of each makes 36 planes and then they need 2 more could be 2 B778 just to be able to fly USA non stop.


"Four of each, that'll do." - the long-time official slogan of TG's Fleet Planning Department :lol:

Antarius wrote:
Since when has TG used common sense or commonality to determine their fleet composition?


Exactly. I do not expect anything else than at least 4 different types (not sub-types), from both A and B, to make up this order.
 
dredgy
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:24 pm

kriskim wrote:

Though I’m still unsure what TG ultimately decides for SYD as they are still using the 747’s, the 77W would be an ideal replacement. Apparently having First to SYD is a must so maybe they might even operate the A380’s to SYD. But there were earlier plans to make SYD 2 daily A350, this was before the reductions. .


It's Thai, so they'll try to order a Concorde, consider an A380 then settle on a 747-8.
 
TheEuphorian
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:35 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:46 pm

Realistically:
6x A350-941
12x 787-9
20x A321-271N
 
melpax
Posts: 1905
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:51 pm

I flew on TG a few weeks back (MEL-BKK-NRT & KIX-BKK-MEL). MEL-BKK & BKK-MEL legs were on the A359, which was very comfortable. Seats could have been a little wider, but there was miles of legroom. And this was with both flights being full. BKK-NRT was the worst flight on a full A333. I had a window seat that was especially uncomfortable legroom-wise & it was a red-eye as well. KIX-BKK was on a 777-300 that was only 1/3 or so full, so had a row to myself as a result, win! If I fly them again, have to make sure I don't get a window seat if I end up on an A333........
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
dcaviation
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:07 pm

fessor wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Here is my thought:

A321NEO
A339/A359/A3510
B779

If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.


TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.

I see A220 for small domestic routes and maybe for Koh Samui.
A320Neo for regional and Domestic
A321NEO LR for longer flights.
B737 max10 for regional High demand routes
B787-9 for Australian routes.
B787-10 for Chinese routes.
A339 for Japanese routes
A359 for long haul.
A3510 for high demand long haul

4 of each makes 36 planes and then they need 2 more could be 2 B778 just to be able to fly USA non stop.


If that's your guess then I think you have never flown domestically in Thailand. A320 on domestic routes. It's a joke.
 
TheEuphorian
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:35 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:32 pm

dcaviation wrote:
fessor wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Here is my thought:

A321NEO
A339/A359/A3510
B779

If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.


TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.

I see A220 for small domestic routes and maybe for Koh Samui.
A320Neo for regional and Domestic
A321NEO LR for longer flights.
B737 max10 for regional High demand routes
B787-9 for Australian routes.
B787-10 for Chinese routes.
A339 for Japanese routes
A359 for long haul.
A3510 for high demand long haul

4 of each makes 36 planes and then they need 2 more could be 2 B778 just to be able to fly USA non stop.


If that's your guess then I think you have never flown domestically in Thailand. A320 on domestic routes. It's a joke.

Forget the A220 or even the A320, TG can't even compete domestically.
 
fessor
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:32 pm

dcaviation wrote:
fessor wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Here is my thought:

A321NEO
A339/A359/A3510
B779

If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.


TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.

I see A220 for small domestic routes and maybe for Koh Samui.
A320Neo for regional and Domestic
A321NEO LR for longer flights.
B737 max10 for regional High demand routes
B787-9 for Australian routes.
B787-10 for Chinese routes.
A339 for Japanese routes
A359 for long haul.
A3510 for high demand long haul

4 of each makes 36 planes and then they need 2 more could be 2 B778 just to be able to fly USA non stop.


If that's your guess then I think you have never flown domestically in Thailand. A320 on domestic routes. It's a joke.


Yes i have and that have been with B737-800. ATR72 A319 and Dash 8s and Thai smile use A320.
I Know TG use widebodies but i never been on other than morning flights that was full. Actually TG had a problem that they cant compete because of widebodies
 
User avatar
flee
Posts: 979
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:14 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:36 pm

TG will be looking to replace the following older and less efficient aircraft in their fleet:

1 B744 (9 frames) av age 20+ yrs
2 B772/77E (12 frames) av age 17+ yrs
3 B773/77W (20 frames) av age 9+ yrs
4 A333 (15 frames) av age 8+ yrs

I think the newer B77Ws and A333s will be retained for a while yet.

I would say that the orders for urgent replacement would be for the B744s and B772/77E/773s.

So Airbus A359/35K and Boeing 789/78X look to be front runners. 15 Airbus and 12 Boeing initial orders would not be surprising! The remainder of replacements may be covered by options.

Thai Smile operates narrow bodies - so none will be ordered for TG unless there is some change in strategy.
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 3766
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:49 pm

Antarius wrote:
fessor wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Here is my thought:

A321NEO
A339/A359/A3510
B779

If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.

TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.

Since when has TG used common sense or commonality to determine their fleet composition?


Lol, indeed.
Perhaps they should order some A380s. Oh, wait . . . !
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
dcaviation
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:26 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:04 pm

fessor wrote:
dcaviation wrote:
fessor wrote:

TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.

I see A220 for small domestic routes and maybe for Koh Samui.
A320Neo for regional and Domestic
A321NEO LR for longer flights.
B737 max10 for regional High demand routes
B787-9 for Australian routes.
B787-10 for Chinese routes.
A339 for Japanese routes
A359 for long haul.
A3510 for high demand long haul

4 of each makes 36 planes and then they need 2 more could be 2 B778 just to be able to fly USA non stop.


If that's your guess then I think you have never flown domestically in Thailand. A320 on domestic routes. It's a joke.


Yes i have and that have been with B737-800. ATR72 A319 and Dash 8s and Thai smile use A320.
I Know TG use widebodies but i never been on other than morning flights that was full. Actually TG had a problem that they cant compete because of widebodies


We are talking about Thai, not Bangkok or Nok.
They don't need small airplanes. TG doesn't compete with Bangkok or Nok. TG owns half of the Nok and they codeshare on all domestic flights with Bangkok.
The only competition is AirAsia or Lion. For that they have Thai Smile, Nok Air and Bangkok Air.
The only order from TG will be for widebody. Thai Smile is getting 24 factory fresh A320Neos.
 
blogdoguib
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:26 pm

b787-10, a350-1000 to replace the b777-200 / 300 (non-er)
b777-9x to replace the b747-400
will be kept:
a380
b777-200er
b777-300er
b787-8
b787-9
a330-300
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1042
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:03 pm

I know it is one of the great a.net meme's to ridicule Thai's fleet "strategy", and there's no doubt that they seem all over the place.

But I gotta say, if I step back and ask myself, "who is a better state owned/operated carrier than Thai?" , I struggle to come up with many clear answers.
Qatar? sure, maybe - but petrodollar backing makes that easy.

Air New Zealand, Singapore? I'll give you those two. In the broad context of state run airlines, Thai isn't so bad.

I mean, Thai's fiscal losses historically aren't really massive, and they have periods of solid profitibility.
Their actual service is excellent, and to say they are globally speaking one of the better ones isn't a stretch.
Their safety record is good.
A fleet of 80 widebodies and 20 narrows, isn't really small.
They do manage to compete, despite operating from one of the worlds most aviation open/freedom friendly cities in BKK.

Is there corruption in the purchasing process? Probably; and it can and should be reduced.
Thailand is a geopolitical small fish not just swimming in the waves of EU and US, but navigating their way thru the rise of China, the traditional regional powers and partners in Japan, Korea, Australia.

I suspect there is more thought and strategy important to the Thai govt than we can suss out here, and right or wrong - Thai Airways seems to be an important tool for them.
 
blogdoguib
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:45 pm

b747-400=9
b777-200=6
b777-300=6

6+6+9=21

82-21=61

61+38=99
 
TC957
Posts: 3487
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:32 pm

PW100 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
fessor wrote:
TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.

Since when has TG used common sense or commonality to determine their fleet composition?


Lol, indeed.
Perhaps they should order some A380s. Oh, wait . . . !

TG have previously stated they are happy with their A380's so could they make MH an offer they can't refuse for some or all of theirs as 744 replacements ?
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2774
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:55 am

Is the approval TG only? Or does it include Thai Smile also?

The 772A, 773A, and 744 will probably be all gone, replace by:

6x 788
10x 789
6x 78X
4x 359
4x 35K
6x 339neo

Plus 2x A223 to restart USM.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1327
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:54 pm

dcaviation wrote:
We are talking about Thai, not Bangkok or Nok.
They don't need small airplanes. TG doesn't compete with Bangkok or Nok. TG owns half of the Nok and they codeshare on all domestic flights with Bangkok.
The only competition is AirAsia or Lion. For that they have Thai Smile, Nok Air and Bangkok Air.
The only order from TG will be for widebody. Thai Smile is getting 24 factory fresh A320Neos.


Where have you heard about Thai Smile getting neos?
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12419
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:14 pm

dcaviation wrote:
If that's your guess then I think you have never flown domestically in Thailand. A320 on domestic routes. It's a joke.

Why not? Far larger and more significant markets have all evolved to exactly that, from their days of widebody domestic service. Why should TG/domestic Thailand be any different?


dcaviation wrote:
They don't need small airplanes.

Says who?


FlyHappy wrote:
But I gotta say, if I step back and ask myself, "who is a better state owned/operated carrier than Thai?" , I struggle to come up with many clear answers.

"Better" at what?

Profit? ....then: Emirates, Singapore Airlines, Air New Zealand, Air China, China Eastern, China Southern, SAS, Vietnam Airlines, Royal Jordanian, etc.
Heck, even AeroFlot whose profits fell 90% y.o.y, is still doing better than Thai.

Network? ...just about all of the above, plus several of others, from the likes of Qatar, to even Air India.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
blogdoguib
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:31 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:08 pm

What is missing for Thai Airways to order 38 new aircraft?
 
fessor
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:45 pm

dcaviation wrote:
fessor wrote:
dcaviation wrote:

If that's your guess then I think you have never flown domestically in Thailand. A320 on domestic routes. It's a joke.


Yes i have and that have been with B737-800. ATR72 A319 and Dash 8s and Thai smile use A320.
I Know TG use widebodies but i never been on other than morning flights that was full. Actually TG had a problem that they cant compete because of widebodies


We are talking about Thai, not Bangkok or Nok.
They don't need small airplanes. TG doesn't compete with Bangkok or Nok. TG owns half of the Nok and they codeshare on all domestic flights with Bangkok.
The only competition is AirAsia or Lion. For that they have Thai Smile, Nok Air and Bangkok Air.
The only order from TG will be for widebody. Thai Smile is getting 24 factory fresh A320Neos.


Ofcourse they need smaller and cheaper planes.
Also Nok works from a different airport which makes cooperation difficult.
TG isn't even major shareholder at nok and actually tried to sell their part which is about 20%.
TG doesn't codeshare with PG on many routes.
TG need Thai smile just to be a little competitive on Domestic flights.
TG and PG is interlining on some routes because TG doesn't have the planes to fly them, that's why TG kept their 737-400 for serve USM
 
CHRISBA35X
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:40 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:26 pm

A320s, A321NEOLR and 789s.
 
x1234
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:31 pm

Thai better get its safety rating in order. There is a HUGE market from California to Thailand and they should launch SFO or LAX with the A359 or 789.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23739
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:20 am

Seems not all is clear.
Government wants more details about the planned purchase


Deputy Transport Minister Thaworn Senneam said that in the past the national carrier did not follow investment principles which require planning to precede buying. He said THAI had failed in this manner before which caused it to operate at a loss.

He said that he has no objections to its hire-purchase plan for the first three aircraft if THAI can show that its revenue will be greater than expenses.

Mr Thaworn said he wanted THAI to provide all aspects of the investment plan including market analysis, customer behaviour, goals, details on flight routes, operational costs and revenue projection, as well as aircraft utilisation.

He insisted that the leasing process must be open to all bidders to ensure THAI will get the best possible offer.


Ministry grills Thai Airways over B156bn aircraft purchase
https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/17 ... t-purchase
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Antarius
Posts: 1652
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:27 am

x1234 wrote:
Thai better get its safety rating in order. There is a HUGE market from California to Thailand and they should launch SFO or LAX with the A359 or 789.


A huge market willing to pay the ULH premium? Doubtful.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR MAA KTM
 
leftcoast8
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:59 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:45 am

x1234 wrote:
Thai better get its safety rating in order. There is a HUGE market from California to Thailand and they should launch SFO or LAX with the A359 or 789.


The California-SE Asia market is a race to the bottom. ANA, Korean, EVA, Xiamen, China Southern offer cheap 1-stop services. SFO/LAX-BKK is heavily biased towards leisure/VFR traffic, there's not much in the way of corporate premium demand. In fact, Thailand's economy has been in poor shape ever since the NCPO junta seized power in 2014; the regime has been manipulating the baht, and a strong baht against the USD hurts Thai exports. The U.S.-China trade war has thrown gasoline onto this fire (the exchange rate is on the verge of slipping below ฿30 to the dollar). Thai GDP numbers for Q2 were published yesterday; YoY growth was 2.3%, the lowest rate since the 2014 coup.

Speaking of the NCPO and the 2014 coup, I'm sure the political instability in Thailand (not to mention the Islamist insurgency in the south of the country) hurts U.S.-BKK yields.
 
DXTraveler
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 4:31 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:40 am

"But I gotta say, if I step back and ask myself, "who is a better state owned/operated carrier than Thai?" "

Ethiopian
 
ewt340
Posts: 792
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:53 am

They really need to sort out their horrible fleet plans.

Either stick with A330, A350 combo. Or B777 and B787 combo. They operated too many aircraft type at too small number.

Honestly, more A330-300 and more A350-900 would be enough for them. Maybe keep their A380 for rainy days.
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:27 am

LAXintl wrote:
Seems not all is clear.
Government wants more details about the planned purchase

Deputy Transport Minister Thaworn Senneam said that in the past the national carrier did not follow investment principles which require planning to precede buying. He said THAI had failed in this manner before which caused it to operate at a loss.

He said that he has no objections to its hire-purchase plan for the first three aircraft if THAI can show that its revenue will be greater than expenses.

Mr Thaworn said he wanted THAI to provide all aspects of the investment plan including market analysis, customer behaviour, goals, details on flight routes, operational costs and revenue projection, as well as aircraft utilisation.

He insisted that the leasing process must be open to all bidders to ensure THAI will get the best possible offer.


Ministry grills Thai Airways over B156bn aircraft purchase
https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/17 ... t-purchase

The Thai Government always does this charade every time TG wants to buy new aircraft due to organisation reorganisation. All those details doesn't matter because at the end of the day Thai Government will want to play nice with both EU and US and ended up purchasing aircraft that doesn't suit their requirement at all. We are taking about an airline which takes every model available in the brochures. So what is the use of detailed investment plan exactly? Oh yes, by the way, the airline is bleeding money, best way to counter is to buy more new shiny airplane! Good idea! Brilliant! Claps!
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:57 am

x1234 wrote:
Thai better get its safety rating in order. There is a HUGE market from California to Thailand and they should launch SFO or LAX with the A359 or 789.

No, there is close to nil market between California and Thailand. The only reason they did it last time was due to certain upper social class families residing at California and demanded TG to do so. They bleed heavily last time they did non-stop BKK-LAX BKK-JFK. Each flight that left BKK or LAX/JFK earned close to nothing. Those A345/346 are now sitting at DMK gathering dust since their retirement in 2012.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
hz747300
Posts: 2368
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:08 am

A350OZ wrote:
fessor wrote:
xwb777 wrote:
Here is my thought:

A321NEO
A339/A359/A3510
B779

If they need aircraft within 2-3 years, the A330-900 is there.


TG doesn't need B779, so if any Boeing planes it will be B787s.

I see A220 for small domestic routes and maybe for Koh Samui.
A320Neo for regional and Domestic
A321NEO LR for longer flights.
B737 max10 for regional High demand routes
B787-9 for Australian routes.
B787-10 for Chinese routes.
A339 for Japanese routes
A359 for long haul.
A3510 for high demand long haul

4 of each makes 36 planes and then they need 2 more could be 2 B778 just to be able to fly USA non stop.


"Four of each, that'll do." - the long-time official slogan of TG's Fleet Planning Department :lol:

Antarius wrote:
Since when has TG used common sense or commonality to determine their fleet composition?


Exactly. I do not expect anything else than at least 4 different types (not sub-types), from both A and B, to make up this order.


They seem to prefer six of each. I thought it was a bit like Lufthansa so their technic department to get the experience and then be the outsource maintenance hub for the most types possible in SE Asia and Southern China. I didn't realize that an airline would deliberately want such fleet without regard to any other concern...
Keep on truckin'...
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2774
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:14 am

juliuswong wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Thai better get its safety rating in order. There is a HUGE market from California to Thailand and they should launch SFO or LAX with the A359 or 789.

No, there is close to nil market between California and Thailand. The only reason they did it last time was due to certain upper social class families residing at California and demanded TG to do so. They bleed heavily last time they did non-stop BKK-LAX BKK-JFK. Each flight that left BKK or LAX/JFK earned close to nothing. Those A345/346 are now sitting at DMK gathering dust since their retirement in 2012.


Not true about "close to nil" market at all:
https://www.anna.aero/2019/03/06/100-ro ... p-service/

So >300 PDEW on BKK-LAX, ~200 PDEW on BKK-JFK, and ~180 PDEW on BKK-SFO. That's definitely quite a bit of demand.

Now, whether the route will be profitable is another question.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
juliuswong
Moderator
Posts: 1713
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:40 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Thai better get its safety rating in order. There is a HUGE market from California to Thailand and they should launch SFO or LAX with the A359 or 789.

No, there is close to nil market between California and Thailand. The only reason they did it last time was due to certain upper social class families residing at California and demanded TG to do so. They bleed heavily last time they did non-stop BKK-LAX BKK-JFK. Each flight that left BKK or LAX/JFK earned close to nothing. Those A345/346 are now sitting at DMK gathering dust since their retirement in 2012.


Not true about "close to nil" market at all:
https://www.anna.aero/2019/03/06/100-ro ... p-service/

So >300 PDEW on BKK-LAX, ~200 PDEW on BKK-JFK, and ~180 PDEW on BKK-SFO. That's definitely quite a bit of demand.

Now, whether the route will be profitable is another question.

Sorry, I wasn't being specific enough. What I meant was those numbers that you have mentioned would have gone to other airlines which are more established in US-Asia routes, leaving little amount of pax for TG.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
TheEuphorian
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:35 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:46 am

DXTraveler wrote:
"But I gotta say, if I step back and ask myself, "who is a better state owned/operated carrier than Thai?" "

Ethiopian

And Singapore Airlines, Turkish and even Vietnam Airlines and the CN3/ME3 are.
 
lawair
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:59 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:52 am

leftcoast8 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Thai better get its safety rating in order. There is a HUGE market from California to Thailand and they should launch SFO or LAX with the A359 or 789.

In fact, Thailand's economy has been in poor shape ever since the NCPO junta seized power in 2014; the regime has been manipulating the baht, and a strong baht against the USD hurts Thai exports. The U.S.-China trade war has thrown gasoline onto this fire (the exchange rate is on the verge of slipping below ฿30 to the dollar). Thai GDP numbers for Q2 were published yesterday; YoY growth was 2.3%, the lowest rate since the 2014 coup.

Speaking of the NCPO and the 2014 coup, I'm sure the political instability in Thailand (not to mention the Islamist insurgency in the south of the country) hurts U.S.-BKK yields.


This is not really true. The Thai economy was actually already struggling while under a civilian government. 2.7 and 1.0% growth in 2013 and 2014 (the year of the coup). The economy started accelerating under the NCPO, at 3.0, 3.3, and then 3.9% growth in 2017. The growth figure topped 4% in 2018. The SET also grew in that time frame. Prior to that growth had been erratic, and a lot of the infrastructure spending was stalled.

There is some truth to the currency manipulation, but the intent has generally been to mollify exchange rate volatility, and usually to prevent the baht from strengthening too quickly. The fact that the baht is stronger is more a reflection of less manipulation (or less effective manipulation) since the government doesn't want a strong baht.

As of this year, there is also technically a civilian government that has been subject to popular vote. The government may have some former military, but there are civilian politicians forming part of the majority coalition and the opposition.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23739
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:52 am

Airline Weekly had a story on TGs Q2 growing loss and outlook. Much of the news is going from bad to worse.

• Q2 Net loss US$200m - negative 14% margin
• Restructuring efforts not working - bloated cost base continues
• Intense competition in region from LCCs and general high levels of capacity into Thailand. Yields continue to sag
• Thai Bhat one of few global currencies rose against USD making Thailand less attractive destination
• Inbound Tourism down from Japan, Europe, Australia and China - overall -8% y/y end of Q2
• Large China market down -30% y/y
• Massive 19% decline in cargo revenues
• Facing pilot drain so had to offer large pay increase further bloating cost base
• Fleet complexity adds cost, reduces efficiency with lower utilization
• Still not fully aligned with TG Smile
• Involved in many auxiliary business such as catering, maintenance, real estate etc. More of distraction than profit centers.
• Holding in NokAir a chief competitor muddies competitive landscape and priorities.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Philipp1357
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Thai government approves TG fleet acquisitions

Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:04 am

They should put 2 daily A350 on Sydney-Bangkok instead of one daily 747 for better timing, increase Moscow Bangkok to daily fly with 787-8 instead of old 777-200 to capture increasing Russian tourists, retire A380, quit flying Phuket-Europe direct routes plus get closer with Lufthansa like SQ.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos