Concorde2fly
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Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:51 pm

Seems Aigle Azur, French airline based out of Orly with about a dozen planes is at risk of collapse, lessors demanding payments, returning aircraft based on the articles
Two articles in Fr, one behind a paywall:

https://www.tsa-algerie.com/la-compagni ... ifficulte/
http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/aigle-a ... l-20190807

There seems to be no availability for their ORY-VCP route in their winter schedule either.
 
aaway
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:08 am

I imagine this is related to HNA Group's financial troubles, yes?
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
Concorde2fly
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:33 am

https://www.air-journal.fr/2019-08-08-m ... 14261.html

Seems to be linked to going long haul to China and Brazil. Also the article states the MAX grounding putting pressure on the airline from the lessor to return a A320 during high season.

Not looking good... I wonder if they will be bought for their slots at ORY.
 
workhorse
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:35 am

What is sure is that their ORY-PEK flight, which was supposed to restart in May, never came back.
 
nicode
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:01 am

I thought the ORY-VCP was a small success but apparently not that much.

There are too many small French airlines (Aigle Azur, Corsair, Air Caraïbes, French Blue, La Compagnie, XL Airways). I'm sure a consolidation of some of those airlines will help their financial statements...
There is Air Austral too, but they ar focused on the RUN market.
 
debonair
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:22 am

nicode wrote:
There are too many small French airlines (Aigle Azur, Corsair, Air Caraïbes, French Blue, La Compagnie, XL Airways). I'm sure a consolidation of some of those airlines will help their financial statements...


Don't agree - Aigle Azur was an airline specialising on flights to Maghreb countries, which was unique to all other French airlines. Aigle Azur was in this segment unrivalled (except for the short lived Atlas Atlantique Airlines).
But it seems the management lost its focus. Expanding to China with A330-200 and starting low-cost flights in Europe (to Berlin-Tegel) was the wrong way to go!
 
oschkosch
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:50 am

That would be a shame if they collapse. Flew them Orly to Algiers once. Nice planes, short flight and very cheap.

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juliuswong
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:53 am

Not surprising here, HNA Group is still in deep red even though they sold their crown jewels Gate Gourment and HK Express. They still have USD 98 billion debt to pay off, not including bonds of USD 16.6 billion due end of this year. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ywang/2019 ... 1de8142ff6

How soon can we see HNA Group divesting stakes in other airlines they had bought over the years? or more of them collapsing altogether?

Africa World Airlines, Azul Brazilian Airlines (23.7%), Comair (6.2%), MyCargo Airlines, TAP Air Portugal (2.5%) and Virgin Australia (20%).

At least Turkish Airlines has expressed its interest in acquiring all of HNA Group 20% interest in Virgin Australia.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:00 am

If they end up ceasing operations, it is a sad ending to a 70 year old airline which had the distinction of operating the Junkers JU-52 and the Boeing 307 Stratoliner (acquired from TWA). Aigle Azur also has the distinction of operating between the mid-1950s and 1973 on behalf of the International Control Commission on the unlikely route between Hanoi, Saigon and Vientiane.
 
AF086
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:28 am

juliuswong wrote:
Not surprising here, HNA Group is still in deep red even though they sold their crown jewels Gate Gourment and HK Express. They still have USD 98 billion debt to pay off, not including bonds of USD 16.6 billion due end of this year. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ywang/2019 ... 1de8142ff6

How soon can we see HNA Group divesting stakes in other airlines they had bought over the years? or more of them collapsing altogether?

Africa World Airlines, Azul Brazilian Airlines (23.7%), Comair (6.2%), MyCargo Airlines, TAP Air Portugal (2.5%) and Virgin Australia (20%).

At least Turkish Airlines has expressed its interest in acquiring all of HNA Group 20% interest in Virgin Australia.


HNA sold their stake in Azul last year. United bought a part of these shares and the rest was sold at the NYSE. They also already divested on TAP they sold part of their shares to an US fund and Azul.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:33 am

debonair wrote:
nicode wrote:
There are too many small French airlines (Aigle Azur, Corsair, Air Caraïbes, French Blue, La Compagnie, XL Airways). I'm sure a consolidation of some of those airlines will help their financial statements...


Don't agree - Aigle Azur was an airline specialising on flights to Maghreb countries, which was unique to all other French airlines. Aigle Azur was in this segment unrivalled (except for the short lived Atlas Atlantique Airlines).


Algeria mostly. Morocco is open skies so everybody (e.g. Ryanair) can fly there. Aigle Azur does not fly to either Tunisia or Morocco.

I am sure Air Algerie, Tassili Airlines or Transavia will be happy to take over those routes if Aigle Azur ever dissappears.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:39 am

Neeleman got 32% stakes in Aigle Azur
 
behramjee
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:33 pm

VCP-ORY also now announced as being suspended effective 01Sep-19.
 
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BasilFawlty
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:41 pm

Getting those A330’s in the first place was a huge mistake. Small shorthaul airlines starting limited scheduled longhaul, it almost never works. bmi British Midland, Monarch, flyglobespan, WOW air, Primera, etc.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
Thibault973
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:05 pm

debonair wrote:
nicode wrote:
There are too many small French airlines (Aigle Azur, Corsair, Air Caraïbes, French Blue, La Compagnie, XL Airways). I'm sure a consolidation of some of those airlines will help their financial statements...


Don't agree - Aigle Azur was an airline specialising on flights to Maghreb countries, which was unique to all other French airlines. Aigle Azur was in this segment unrivalled (except for the short lived Atlas Atlantique Airlines).
But it seems the management lost its focus. Expanding to China with A330-200 and starting low-cost flights in Europe (to Berlin-Tegel) was the wrong way to go!


The TXL flights are gone apparently and they are reducing MXP. Also their only domestic route LYS-NTE lasted something like a month. That wasnt a good sign.
 
Thibault973
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:26 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
debonair wrote:
nicode wrote:
There are too many small French airlines (Aigle Azur, Corsair, Air Caraïbes, French Blue, La Compagnie, XL Airways). I'm sure a consolidation of some of those airlines will help their financial statements...


Don't agree - Aigle Azur was an airline specialising on flights to Maghreb countries, which was unique to all other French airlines. Aigle Azur was in this segment unrivalled (except for the short lived Atlas Atlantique Airlines).


Algeria mostly. Morocco is open skies so everybody (e.g. Ryanair) can fly there. Aigle Azur does not fly to either Tunisia or Morocco.

I am sure Air Algerie, Tassili Airlines or Transavia will be happy to take over those routes if Aigle Azur ever dissappears.


If ZI collapses, AH will have monopoly on routes from France to Annaba, Bejaïa, Constantine, Sétif and Tlemcen in Algeria. Seeing how high fares are already to this destinations, not sure it's a good news for custumers.
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:53 pm

While a massive shot in the dark. Could we see someone like XL Airways (they do also own La Compagnie which the current CEO founded and sold to XL) take them over for both their slot portfolio and using some of the aircraft to expand either XL or La Compagnie?
 
Thibault973
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:19 pm

Insertnamehere wrote:
While a massive shot in the dark. Could we see someone like XL Airways (they do also own La Compagnie which the current CEO founded and sold to XL) take them over for both their slot portfolio and using some of the aircraft to expand either XL or La Compagnie?


XL are not in great shape themselves so not sure if they really are in position to buy anyone atm.
 
by738
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:29 pm

Think I thought they'd gone bust already
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:33 pm

Do they still have the A330s or are those gone now?

millionsofmiles wrote:
unlikely route between Hanoi, Saigon and Vientiane.

I'm not sure if it would exactly be called "unlikely" given Vietnam and Laos were former French colonies. Strange yes, but the connection kinda makes sense at least.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:41 pm

Insertnamehere wrote:
While a massive shot in the dark. Could we see someone like XL Airways (they do also own La Compagnie which the current CEO founded and sold to XL) take them over for both their slot portfolio and using some of the aircraft to expand either XL or La Compagnie?


XL is not far behind Aigle Azur regarding their economical situation so its unlikely.
 
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andrefranca
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:55 pm

a friend is a FA for Azul and told me sometimes they have to fly for aigle azur, he says they are a total mess... and is not surprised at all...
Andre F. :blockhead:
 
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nordikcam
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:08 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Do they still have the A330s or are those gone now?

millionsofmiles wrote:
unlikely route between Hanoi, Saigon and Vientiane.

I'm not sure if it would exactly be called "unlikely" given Vietnam and Laos were former French colonies. Strange yes, but the connection kinda makes sense at least.


They stopped Beijing and the A 332 is flying for Air Austral.
The other one is flying Sao Paulo ( Campinas ) but they will stop too in 2 or 3 weeks...They fly too to Bamako
 
debonair
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:27 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Algeria mostly. Morocco is open skies so everybody (e.g. Ryanair) can fly there. Aigle Azur does not fly to either Tunisia or Morocco.


But they did in the past...
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:29 pm

andrefranca wrote:
a friend is a FA for Azul and told me sometimes they have to fly for aigle azur

That sounds kind of confusing considering the similar names.
 
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millionsofmiles
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:49 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Do they still have the A330s or are those gone now?

millionsofmiles wrote:
unlikely route between Hanoi, Saigon and Vientiane.

I'm not sure if it would exactly be called "unlikely" given Vietnam and Laos were former French colonies. Strange yes, but the connection kinda makes sense at least.



The route was “unlikely” based on the fact that, for a good portion of that period, the Vietnam War was raging, and there was, aside from this operation, no air service between Saigon and Hanoi other than BOMBING MISSIONS.

Did you fail World History in school?
 
mauro10
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:00 pm

andrefranca wrote:
a friend is a FA for Azul and told me sometimes they have to fly for aigle azur, he says they are a total mess... and is not surprised at all...


This ORY-VCP flight was just a way David Neeleman found to expand VCP long-haul ops even though Azul (AD) had a shortage of widebody planes due to delays in the A330neo program.
It was focused on Brazilian customers and because of that, Azul sends two of their flight attendants to this flight. But they don't replace ZI's crew, it is just two extra FA's that speak Portuguese to please the Brazilian customers and kind of sell this as an Azul flight. Now with the A339's being delivered to AD (and they are also adding a former Avianca Brazil A332), I would not be surprised if they pick this route. It had average LF´s, but given the focus on Brazilian customer, having the actual Azul brand may improve the results.

As for ZI, it seems they really lost their focus with HNA/DN
 
juliuswong
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:34 am

AF086 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Not surprising here, HNA Group is still in deep red even though they sold their crown jewels Gate Gourment and HK Express. They still have USD 98 billion debt to pay off, not including bonds of USD 16.6 billion due end of this year. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ywang/2019 ... 1de8142ff6

How soon can we see HNA Group divesting stakes in other airlines they had bought over the years? or more of them collapsing altogether?

Africa World Airlines, Azul Brazilian Airlines (23.7%), Comair (6.2%), MyCargo Airlines, TAP Air Portugal (2.5%) and Virgin Australia (20%).

At least Turkish Airlines has expressed its interest in acquiring all of HNA Group 20% interest in Virgin Australia.


HNA sold their stake in Azul last year. United bought a part of these shares and the rest was sold at the NYSE. They also already divested on TAP they sold part of their shares to an US fund and Azul.

Thanks for the update, haven't been following closely HNA Group. Seems like deck of cards are now all crumbled.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:16 am

juliuswong wrote:
AF086 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Not surprising here, HNA Group is still in deep red even though they sold their crown jewels Gate Gourment and HK Express. They still have USD 98 billion debt to pay off, not including bonds of USD 16.6 billion due end of this year. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ywang/2019 ... 1de8142ff6

How soon can we see HNA Group divesting stakes in other airlines they had bought over the years? or more of them collapsing altogether?

Africa World Airlines, Azul Brazilian Airlines (23.7%), Comair (6.2%), MyCargo Airlines, TAP Air Portugal (2.5%) and Virgin Australia (20%).

At least Turkish Airlines has expressed its interest in acquiring all of HNA Group 20% interest in Virgin Australia.


HNA sold their stake in Azul last year. United bought a part of these shares and the rest was sold at the NYSE. They also already divested on TAP they sold part of their shares to an US fund and Azul.

Thanks for the update, haven't been following closely HNA Group. Seems like deck of cards are now all crumbled.


It's the Hunter strategy all over again, which caused the collapse of Swissair and its parent SAirGroup, along with perennial money-losing Sabena. (Significant portions of the former SAirGroup are now part of HNA Group.)
 
blueflyer
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:37 am

In a right-of-reply, the airline denies that any current lessor is asking for aircraft to be returned. One A320 was returned in June, however the airline claims the process was abusive, and implies the lessor wanted the aircraft back to take advantage of higher lease rates due to the Max grounding.The aircraft was replaced by another lease. They add that local partners were supposed to assume the risks of their long-haul flights, but that recent unspecified changes have shifted the risk back to Aigle Azur, and as a result they decided to end long-haul.

They admit to experiencing some difficulties (again, no details provided) however they blame industry-wide and external factors, including flygscam...

Finally, as signs of strength, they point to expected record revenues in August, the highly anticipated return of one of two A320s leased out to TAP, and €25 millions in cash.

An airline can quickly burn through €25 millions, but I guess if lessors were about to repossess aircraft, their cash position would probably be lower...
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A380MSN004
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:36 am

blueflyer wrote:
In a right-of-reply, the airline denies that any current lessor is asking for aircraft to be returned. One A320 was returned in June, however the airline claims the process was abusive, and implies the lessor wanted the aircraft back to take advantage of higher lease rates due to the Max grounding.The aircraft was replaced by another lease. They add that local partners were supposed to assume the risks of their long-haul flights, but that recent unspecified changes have shifted the risk back to Aigle Azur, and as a result they decided to end long-haul.

They admit to experiencing some difficulties (again, no details provided) however they blame industry-wide and external factors, including flygscam...

Finally, as signs of strength, they point to expected record revenues in August, the highly anticipated return of one of two A320s leased out to TAP, and €25 millions in cash.

An airline can quickly burn through €25 millions, but I guess if lessors were about to repossess aircraft, their cash position would probably be lower...


So, the 25 millions € stuck in an Algerian Bank for couple of years for unclear reason are supposed to be back ?
 
f4f3a
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:17 am

I’m sure that there are many people who want those slots . Also routes to Algeria would be sought after I’m sure
 
rouelan
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:36 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I am sure Air Algerie, Tassili Airlines or Transavia will be happy to take over those routes if Aigle Azur ever dissappears.


No, Algerian airlines wont take over as the routes are subject to traffic rights. If ZI collapses, the rights will be reallocated to French airlines (to be more precise, airlines that have bases in France, which include Vueling, easyjet....)
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:18 am

rouelan wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I am sure Air Algerie, Tassili Airlines or Transavia will be happy to take over those routes if Aigle Azur ever dissappears.


No, Algerian airlines wont take over as the routes are subject to traffic rights. If ZI collapses, the rights will be reallocated to French airlines (to be more precise, airlines that have bases in France, which include Vueling, easyjet....)


It's under bilateral right? Are you sure non French AOC can apply ?
 
runway23
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:39 am

A380MSN004 wrote:
rouelan wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I am sure Air Algerie, Tassili Airlines or Transavia will be happy to take over those routes if Aigle Azur ever dissappears.


No, Algerian airlines wont take over as the routes are subject to traffic rights. If ZI collapses, the rights will be reallocated to French airlines (to be more precise, airlines that have bases in France, which include Vueling, easyjet....)


It's under bilateral right? Are you sure non French AOC can apply ?


Pretty sure it would be restricted to only French AOCs.

It could be of interest to Level/Vueling via Openskies AOC - though it might be easier for Level to take over parts of Aigle Azur (say crew, aircraft, slots) and get rid of most of the back office.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:04 am

runway23 wrote:
A380MSN004 wrote:
rouelan wrote:

No, Algerian airlines wont take over as the routes are subject to traffic rights. If ZI collapses, the rights will be reallocated to French airlines (to be more precise, airlines that have bases in France, which include Vueling, easyjet....)


It's under bilateral right? Are you sure non French AOC can apply ?


Pretty sure it would be restricted to only French AOCs.

It could be of interest to Level/Vueling via Openskies AOC - though it might be easier for Level to take over parts of Aigle Azur (say crew, aircraft, slots) and get rid of most of the back office.


For what it is worth, vueling flies MRS ALG
 
bennett123
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:38 am

f4f3a

Is there a lot of demand for flights to Algeria?.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:01 pm

bennett123 wrote:
f4f3a

Is there a lot of demand for flights to Algeria?.


It's a huge diaspora here in France (the biggest Maghreb community by far). In France it's about 4 millions (with 2 millions who are binationals).

Back in the days Algeria until 1954 if i'm remember well, it was a French colony
 
rouelan
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:43 pm

SCQ83 wrote:

For what it is worth, vueling flies MRS ALG


Correct. They were awarded the route after Air Med bankruptcy.

https://www.tourmag.com/Israel-Senegal- ... 81218.html

"Vueling, transporteur espagnol qui fait partie du groupe IAG ...est autorisé à postuler car il dispose de bases en France, employant des salariés sous contrat national, payant taxes et impôts"

Vueling could bid as they have a base in France with staff under French contract.

Talking of Vueling, the latest development (in French) : According to La Tribune, they made an offer to "buy" slots. As it is not possible to do so in France, there is a complex mechanism to create a separate AOC with a limited number of tangible assets / resources but that would be granted part of the slot portfolio
https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 25542.html
 
rouelan
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:47 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:

Back in the days Algeria until 1954 if i'm remember well, it was a French colony


Until 1962 in fact, with Evian agreements closing a very painful period with the so called "évènements" as the French government would not use the right word for what was a war.

And, to be very precise, Algeria was not a colony. It was a set of "départements", fully aligned with the ones in métropole and overseas (like Réunion, Guadeloupe...).
Last edited by rouelan on Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Thibault973
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:47 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
f4f3a

Is there a lot of demand for flights to Algeria?.


It's a huge diaspora here in France (the biggest Maghreb community by far). In France it's about 4 millions (with 2 millions who are binationals).

Back in the days Algeria until 1954 if i'm remember well, it was a French colony


Until 1962 actually.

And yes, there is a hugeeee demand for flights between France and Algeria. Basically every Algerian city is served from Paris and most French airports have flights to Algeria.

Here are the list of air routes and flights between the 2 countries :

- Paris CDG to Algiers (up to 87w), Annaba (3w), Bejaia (1w), Biskra (1w), Chlef (4w), Constantine (5w), El Oued (1w), Oran (27w), Sétif (3w), Tlemcen (3w) = 135w to 9 cities.
- Paris ORY to Algiers (51w), Annaba (4w), Batna (1w), Bejaia (13w), Biskra (2w), Constantine (6w), Oran (14w), Sétif (5w) and Tlemcen (7w) = 103w flights to 9 cities.
- Marseille to Algiers (35w), Annaba (7w), Batna (2w), Bejaia (5w), Chlef (3w), Constantine (10w), Oran (13w) , Sétif (5w), Tlemcen (4w) = 84w flights to 9 cities.
- Lyon to Algiers (17w), Annaba (5w), Batna (2w), Bejaia (4w), Biskra (1w), Constantine (7w), Oran (12w), Sétif (11w) and Tlemcen (2w) = 61w to 9 cities.
- Toulouse to Algiers (8w), Oran (10w) = 18w to 2 cities.
- Lille to Algiers (9w), Constantine (2w), Oran (4w) , Tlemcen (1w) = 16w to 4 cities.
- Nice to Algiers (6w) and Constantine (3w) = 9w to 2 cities.
- Mulhouse to Algiers (1w), to Constantine (5w), Oran (1w) and Sétif (1w) = 8w to 4 cities.
- Bordeaux to Algiers (4w) and Oran (4w) = 8w to 2 cities.
- Metz to Algiers (6w) and Oran (1w) = 7w to 2 cities.
- Nantes to Algiers (5w) and Oran (2w) = 7w to 2 cities
- Montpellier to Algiers (2w) and Oran (2w) = 4w to 2 cities.
- Strasbourg to Algiers (1w), Constantine (1w), Oran (1w) = 3W to 3 cities.
- Perpignan to Oran (2w).
- Toulon to Algiers (1w).

So that's 466 return flights (or 133 flights a day) between 15 French airports and 11 Algerian cities.

From the Algerian side:
- Algiers : 233w to 14 French airports.
- Oran : 93w to 13 French airports.
- Constantine : 39w to 8 French airports.
- Sétif : 25w to to 5 French airports.
- Bejaia : 23w to 4 French airports.
- Annaba : 19w to 4 French airports.
- Tlemcen : 17w to 5 French airports.
- Chlef : 7w to 2 French airports.
- Batna : 5w to 3 French airports.
- Biskra : 4w to 3 French airports.
- El Oued : 1w to Paris.

French cities that used to see flights to Algeria but no longer do : Beauvais, Carcasonne, Saint Etienne and Vatry.
 
rouelan
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:59 pm

For those of you interested, here is the bulletin statistique DGAC

https://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv.f ... n_2018.pdf

4.5 M pax in 2018, one of biggest non European flows after US and Morocco
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:19 pm

rouelan wrote:
For those of you interested, here is the bulletin statistique DGAC

https://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv.f ... n_2018.pdf

4.5 M pax in 2018, one of biggest non European flows after US and Morocco


What about the yield?
 
rouelan
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:41 pm

No idea but I would guess it cant be bad. We are talking of a regulated market , no Locos (except the few Vueling flights), no competion via other hubs and passengers that "have" to travel (for business or to visit family). And a sure sign is that ZI has been alive for 70 years focusing on this market. For some reason, the management decided to diversify, which led to the catastrophic situation
 
User avatar
nordikcam
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:44 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:28 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
f4f3a

Is there a lot of demand for flights to Algeria?.


It's a huge diaspora here in France (the biggest Maghreb community by far). In France it's about 4 millions (with 2 millions who are binationals).

Back in the days Algeria until 1954 if i'm remember well, it was a French colony


1954 was the beginning...and 1962 the end of "Guerre d'Algérie" :-)
 
Thibault973
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:42 pm

rouelan wrote:
No idea but I would guess it cant be bad. We are talking of a regulated market , no Locos (except the few Vueling flights), no competion via other hubs and passengers that "have" to travel (for business or to visit family). And a sure sign is that ZI has been alive for 70 years focusing on this market. For some reason, the management decided to diversify, which led to the catastrophic situation


TO also flies LYS-ALG and NTE-ALG
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5208
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:17 am

Wow ALG-PAR is really impressive. Today there are 14 flights between the two cities.

AF 1355 Air France (CDG) Paris 5:30 AM
AH 1002 Air Algerie (CDG) Paris 7:15 AM
AF 1555 Air France (CDG) Paris 9:40 AM
AH 1000 Air Algerie (CDG) Paris 10:30 AM
AF 1855 Air France (CDG) Paris 11:55 AM
AH 1214 Air Algerie (CDG) Paris 1:15 PM
AH 1012 Air Algerie (CDG) Paris 4:40 PM
ZI 224 Aigle Azur (CDG) Paris 5:20 PM
AF 1755 Air France (CDG) Paris 6:55 PM

AH 1010 Air Algerie (ORY) Paris 9:10 AM
ZI 260 Aigle Azur (ORY) Paris 12:15 PM
AH 1006 Air Algerie (ORY) Paris 3:20 PM
AH 1008 Air Algerie (ORY) Paris 6:35 PM
ZI 258 Aigle Azur (ORY) Paris 7:00 PM
 
runway23
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:17 am

rouelan wrote:
No idea but I would guess it cant be bad. We are talking of a regulated market , no Locos (except the few Vueling flights), no competion via other hubs and passengers that "have" to travel (for business or to visit family). And a sure sign is that ZI has been alive for 70 years focusing on this market. For some reason, the management decided to diversify, which led to the catastrophic situation


Also, for a decade AF weren't on the market, they are only back since a little over 15 years now.

You have LH who serve FRA-ALG as another hub, but I doubt there are many passengers from/to France that go via Frankfurt.

Even AH's European network is pretty much limited to French speaking Europe (France, BRU, GVA), Spain and Italy. VIE/FRA are the only two destinations that don't fit in the the former.
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:24 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Wow ALG-PAR is really impressive. Today there are 14 flights between the two cities.

AF 1355 Air France (CDG) Paris 5:30 AM
AH 1002 Air Algerie (CDG) Paris 7:15 AM
AF 1555 Air France (CDG) Paris 9:40 AM
AH 1000 Air Algerie (CDG) Paris 10:30 AM
AF 1855 Air France (CDG) Paris 11:55 AM
AH 1214 Air Algerie (CDG) Paris 1:15 PM
AH 1012 Air Algerie (CDG) Paris 4:40 PM
ZI 224 Aigle Azur (CDG) Paris 5:20 PM
AF 1755 Air France (CDG) Paris 6:55 PM

AH 1010 Air Algerie (ORY) Paris 9:10 AM
ZI 260 Aigle Azur (ORY) Paris 12:15 PM
AH 1006 Air Algerie (ORY) Paris 3:20 PM
AH 1008 Air Algerie (ORY) Paris 6:35 PM
ZI 258 Aigle Azur (ORY) Paris 7:00 PM


+ the yield on that route is pretty good.
Those slots to ALG are gold
 
SueD
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:35 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:36 am

runway23 wrote:
rouelan wrote:
No idea but I would guess it cant be bad. We are talking of a regulated market , no Locos (except the few Vueling flights), no competion via other hubs and passengers that "have" to travel (for business or to visit family). And a sure sign is that ZI has been alive for 70 years focusing on this market. For some reason, the management decided to diversify, which led to the catastrophic situation


Also, for a decade AF weren't on the market, they are only back since a little over 15 years now.

You have LH who serve FRA-ALG as another hub, but I doubt there are many passengers from/to France that go via Frankfurt.

Even AH's European network is pretty much limited to French speaking Europe (France, BRU, GVA), Spain and Italy. VIE/FRA are the only two destinations that don't fit in the the former.


Ajr Algerie also serve Heathrow with a mix of A332 and 738 aircraft

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