cityshuttle
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:38 am

Maybe a good add for EW to purchase ZI - build a base at ORY. O&D of Paris region should be strong enough with decent business pax along ethnic / touristic pax.

Otherwise they risk that Norwegian / Level / Easy etc will get stronger at ORY / Paris market.
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 2780
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:06 am

cityshuttle wrote:
Maybe a good add for EW to purchase ZI - build a base at ORY. O&D of Paris region should be strong enough with decent business pax along ethnic / touristic pax.

Otherwise they risk that Norwegian / Level / Easy etc will get stronger at ORY / Paris market.


Would French labor laws make it worthwhile? Also, Lufthansa Group would probably want to negotiate to purchase the planes from ZI’s lessors; they did that with the planes they got from Air Berlin.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3136
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:50 pm

cityshuttle wrote:
Maybe a good add for EW to purchase ZI - build a base at ORY. O&D of Paris region should be strong enough with decent business pax along ethnic / touristic pax.

Otherwise they risk that Norwegian / Level / Easy etc will get stronger at ORY / Paris market.

The best strategy for competing airlines is to let the struggling airline go bust and bid for their assets, slots, aircraft, instead of purchasing the airline outright.
 
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BasilFawlty
Posts: 878
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:53 pm

cityshuttle wrote:
Maybe a good add for EW to purchase ZI

Yes, brilliant, even more loss-making operations for under the EW umbrella. It would fit them quite well actually.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
MHG
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Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:33 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:36 pm

BasilFawlty wrote:
cityshuttle wrote:
Maybe a good add for EW to purchase ZI

Yes, brilliant, even more loss-making operations for under the EW umbrella. It would fit them quite well actually.

Maybe EW will become some sort of "bad bank" in European aviation ... ?
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
Thibault973
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:10 pm

Things are not looking good for ZI :( Their Portuguese operations are to be sold to VY.
Flights to Algeria and Mali to be moved to CDG while Moscow and Kiev will stay in ORY.
MXP and BEY to be dropped, TXL having just ended.
 
rouelan
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:04 am

Thibault973 wrote:
Things are not looking good for ZI :( Their Portuguese operations are to be sold to VY.
Flights to Algeria and Mali to be moved to CDG while Moscow and Kiev will stay in ORY.
MXP and BEY to be dropped, TXL having just ended.


Strange. Portuguese operations only account for 15% of ZI slots; so they would never cover the 40 to 50% slots acquisition quoted by the media.

Also, if they move Algeria to CDG, what will they do with these slots (60% of their portfolio) ?
 
nicode
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:23 am

Apparently, slots to OPO and LIS will be transferd to VY.

Moreover, Algeria government (or airports authorities) have to pay 60M€ which belongs to ZI. With this sum, ZI would be in better shape.
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:09 am

nicode wrote:
Apparently, slots to OPO and LIS will be transferd to VY.

Moreover, Algeria government (or airports authorities) have to pay 60M€ which belongs to ZI. With this sum, ZI would be in better shape.


Do you have more details about those 60M€? Reports were around 25-28M€ stuck in an Algerian entity who act as a local BSP back in 2015

Edit :

This money is :
Passenger fees (from 2011)
Fuel Surchage
Issue ticket non used

Apparently Algerian entities are "checking" those amounts for years now....
 
runway23
Posts: 2264
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:38 am

Thibault973 wrote:
Things are not looking good for ZI :( Their Portuguese operations are to be sold to VY.
Flights to Algeria and Mali to be moved to CDG while Moscow and Kiev will stay in ORY.
MXP and BEY to be dropped, TXL having just ended.


I don't get the point of keeping Moscow and Kiev in ORY unless this a bilateral restriction. If you're going to sell your slots in ORY then sell them all and move the entire operation to CDG.
 
rouelan
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:41 am

nicode wrote:
Apparently, slots to OPO and LIS will be transferd to VY.



They stopped LIS in 2018. They now barely fly once a day to OPO (+ few odd flights to FAO and FNC), so very far from what Vueling would get in terms of slots
 
Thibault973
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:03 pm

runway23 wrote:
Thibault973 wrote:
Things are not looking good for ZI :( Their Portuguese operations are to be sold to VY.
Flights to Algeria and Mali to be moved to CDG while Moscow and Kiev will stay in ORY.
MXP and BEY to be dropped, TXL having just ended.


I don't get the point of keeping Moscow and Kiev in ORY unless this a bilateral restriction. If you're going to sell your slots in ORY then sell them all and move the entire operation to CDG.


Don't understand it either, it would mean keeping 1 daily departure from ORY, 4w to DME and 3 to Kiev. Makes no sense at all (although ZI's rights to Russia might be restricted to ORY).
 
rouelan
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:10 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:07 am

Let us do the math, if ZI sells 40% of their slots, DME and IEV wont be enough to use the remaining 60%. Some sources say that only part of Algeria will move to CDG
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:51 pm

runway23 wrote:
Thibault973 wrote:
Things are not looking good for ZI :( Their Portuguese operations are to be sold to VY.
Flights to Algeria and Mali to be moved to CDG while Moscow and Kiev will stay in ORY.
MXP and BEY to be dropped, TXL having just ended.


I don't get the point of keeping Moscow and Kiev in ORY unless this a bilateral restriction. If you're going to sell your slots in ORY then sell them all and move the entire operation to CDG.


I have no idea about Moscow, but KBP (Kiev Boryspil) has a mechanism, where you might get preference in fees, if you open a new route.
Now, I never fully studied the details, but a key factor that is often mentioned is that for the route to be declared as a new one, it cannot cannibalize existing routes.
In principle, it makes sense -- you don't want to create a "revolving door" of temporary entrant carriers -- each will fly the route, with rebates in fees, until the rebate is over, while an entrenched operator pays full fees.

KBP-CDG is served by both entrenched AF and PS, and recent entrant SkyUp. Only ORY-KBP is available as a "new route". Now, Aigle Azur has launched the route in April this year, and probably still enjoys KBP rebates and other "honeymoon" specials -- that will be withdrawn the second they switch to CDG-KBP.
Also, the open skies treaty between EU and Ukraine is still not in place (Gibraltar status is often mentioned as official hold-up), and route authorities are based on bilaterals. So, Aigle Azur would also have to apply for re-issue of their route authority for CDG, vs. ORY. Takes time.
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Aesma
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Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:05 pm

Is the current turmoil in Algeria part of the problem ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:47 pm

Aesma wrote:
Is the current turmoil in Algeria part of the problem ?


Nope
 
MCTSET
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:57 pm

Guys I fly to Algeria a lot and prices are already really high with Aigle Azur in trouble if they fold will prices to Algeria increase significantly?
 
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BasilFawlty
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:23 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:04 pm

rouelan wrote:
Some sources say that only part of Algeria will move to CDG

What would be the point of such splitted operations? It doesn't make any sense for a small airline like ZI.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
A380MSN004
Posts: 509
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:07 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:07 pm

MCTSET wrote:
Guys I fly to Algeria a lot and prices are already really high with Aigle Azur in trouble if they fold will prices to Algeria increase significantly?


Indeed, same demand less seats available. This Will be temporary until a new operator is operating those lucrative lines.
 
MCTSET
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:05 pm

A380MSN004 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
Guys I fly to Algeria a lot and prices are already really high with Aigle Azur in trouble if they fold will prices to Algeria increase significantly?


Indeed, same demand less seats available. This Will be temporary until a new operator is operating those lucrative lines.


Is this because Algeria is a regulated market, that airlines are simply unable to expand.
 
solracfunk14
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:10 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:13 am

Azul it`s not taking the Paris route for basic reasons:

- LF its good but not that good
- No partner at Paris both CDG or ORY
- The former A330 from O6 it`s now a spare airplane, in the last weeks Azul used a lot of HiFly planes to rescue A330 grounded flights.

I rather see AD flying to SCL or NYC area than Paris.
 
Msep003
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:02 am

A380MSN004 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
Guys I fly to Algeria a lot and prices are already really high with Aigle Azur in trouble if they fold will prices to Algeria increase significantly?


Indeed, same demand less seats available. This Will be temporary until a new operator is operating those lucrative lines.


Transavia is slightly stepping in from NTE to Algieria and Tunisia from LYS .
Although with Aigle Azur selling slots to Vueling from ORY and as they are just new in the African market from Spain as it could be very lucrative in their spanish hubs such as MAD or BCN.
 
Thibault973
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Aigle Azur at risk of ceasing operations

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:12 am

Msep003 wrote:
A380MSN004 wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
Guys I fly to Algeria a lot and prices are already really high with Aigle Azur in trouble if they fold will prices to Algeria increase significantly?


Indeed, same demand less seats available. This Will be temporary until a new operator is operating those lucrative lines.


Transavia is slightly stepping in from NTE to Algieria and Tunisia from LYS .
Although with Aigle Azur selling slots to Vueling from ORY and as they are just new in the African market from Spain as it could be very lucrative in their spanish hubs such as MAD or BCN.


VY already flies up to 5 daily flights to ALG (2xBCN, 1xMRS, 1xALC, 1xAGP and 1xVLC (both less than daily) and 3 daily flights to ORN (2 from ALC and 1 from BCN).

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