RainerBoeing777
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Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:15 am

Already American, Delta, United and Hawaiian won their slots in Haneda, is there any information on how many slots Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways will receive to the US, is there any information on when they will be delivered?

Another doubt the slots were only for the US? countries in Europe, the Middle East, Asia Pacific will receive any slot?
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fessor
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:34 am

Also wonder if there soon will be some slots for SK.
Then they could do CPH-HND, and then share the NRT slots between OSL and ARN
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:49 am

AY has been interested in launching flights to Haneda for several years, so I'd be surprised if AY didn't purchase any slots at HND.
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Gemuser
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:01 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Already American, Delta, United and Hawaiian won their slots in Haneda, is there any information on how many slots Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways will receive to the US, is there any information on when they will be delivered?

Another doubt the slots were only for the US? countries in Europe, the Middle East, Asia Pacific will receive any slot?

These slots at Haneda are negotiated indivually between Japan & other countries on a bi-lateral basis, they are granted to the COUNTRY. They are on a one for one basis, ie one slot for your carries and one for mine. The disposion of slots among Japanese carriers is soley at the decision of the government of Japan, that of other countries is soley at the decision the other countries government. The Japanese government will allocate slots to Japanese carriers in their own time, but note it will be the same number that the US government has recived. [Assuming Japenese carriers want them.]

I don't have a list handy of alloctions to all countries but Australia has recived at least one as has New Zealand and I'm pretty sure the EU3 have recived some [no idea how many] and I think AY [not sure about that]. What slot will be granted & when in the future is soley up to the Japanese government.

Gemuser
 
c933103
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:07 am

QuawerAir wrote:
AY has been interested in launching flights to Haneda for several years, so I'd be surprised if AY didn't purchase any slots at HND.

I don't think they are up for purchase.
Also, I don't think Europe will get much of them.
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teme82
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:44 am

c933103 wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
AY has been interested in launching flights to Haneda for several years, so I'd be surprised if AY didn't purchase any slots at HND.

I don't think they are up for purchase.
Also, I don't think Europe will get much of them.

Well if AY don't get the slots certain individuals in the Government will lose their face. AY is one of the largest EU airlines in Japan. Serving NRT 2 daily KIX 11 weekly NGO (daily?) and FUK (3 flights?).
AY has been trying to get HND slots for ages and I think they should get them. Departure from HEL would be around midnight and the departure from HND would be after midnight, allowing passengers to catch the morning flights from HEL.
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a19901213
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:56 am

If any country(airline) other than US is going to get a slot in next allocation AY would be one of them.

AY has been significant part of Japan’s travel industry to not just Tokyo but regional Japan as well.

They deserve a slot in HND.
Last edited by a19901213 on Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
c933103
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:57 am

teme82 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
AY has been interested in launching flights to Haneda for several years, so I'd be surprised if AY didn't purchase any slots at HND.

I don't think they are up for purchase.
Also, I don't think Europe will get much of them.

Well if AY don't get the slots certain individuals in the Government will lose their face. AY is one of the largest EU airlines in Japan. Serving NRT 2 daily KIX 11 weekly NGO (daily?) and FUK (3 flights?).
AY has been trying to get HND slots for ages and I think they should get them. Departure from HEL would be around midnight and the departure from HND would be after midnight, allowing passengers to catch the morning flights from HEL.

This round of expansion of slot availability was supposed to focus on expanding connectivity out of Haneda to other Asian countries. Flights to America was originally supposed to get something like 6 slots per side but the number doubled due to issue with US Military air space near Tokyo and that ended up getting almost half newly available slot. And then they also want to increase the amount of slots dedicated for flying to regionap airport. I don't know how many if any of those slots are still available there for additional Haneda flight to Europe. I guess that will also depends on result of another discussion that's held simultaneously that is supposed to release some currently occupied domestic slots for other international flights.
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SeanM1997
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:12 am

Virgin Atlantic have stated that they would consider relaunching Tokyo flights if they can get Haneda slots. Maybe the Delta tie up and increasing slots at HND will finally relaunch the London Heathrow route on VS
 
EK77WNH
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:15 am

I’m going to Kyoto next month from Boston and the JAL nonstop to NRT makes things a bit more complicated... not less. So I’m taking Korean’s 787-9 to Seoul and backtracking to Osaka. Same in reverse. A HND nonstop from Boston would certainly have kept me on JAL metal (or someone else’s).
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ITSTours
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:19 am

There are about 50 new slots that will be allocated for the international routes.

24 of them are dedicated for US-Japan routes.
12 of them are for the US and the other 12 are for the Japan.
The rest of them will be used for non-US routes.

How the remaining 38 slots will be allocated are completely unknown.
Japanese government is busy discussing redistribution of the domestic slots.
They did not even start the discussion for the international slots.
They just have approved the new approach route that is essential for the new international slots a few days ago.

So... wait. There is no news yet.
 
a19901213
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:34 am

EK77WNH wrote:
I’m going to Kyoto next month from Boston and the JAL nonstop to NRT makes things a bit more complicated... not less. So I’m taking Korean’s 787-9 to Seoul and backtracking to Osaka. Same in reverse. A HND nonstop from Boston would certainly have kept me on JAL metal (or someone else’s).


This is one of the main reason why Japanese government is keen on opening up HND to international routes.

Japan is always notorious of being too Tokyo focus at the costs of regional Part of Japan.

People based in rural Japan more than often have to take domestic fight to HND first then hop on a 1:30hr long bus to NRT just to catch fly their flight to overseas.

NRT really isn’t too bad if your destination is right in the middle of Tokyo but for residents of Tokyo who live in the outskirts of Tokyo, Yokohama areas NRT is just too much for them.

And hence US is one of their priority to fix up this issue since there really isn’t any transit point in between these two countries that allow you to transit and fly into regional japan. Any feasible transit hub nearby requires backtracking route hence time consuming.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:39 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Already American, Delta, United and Hawaiian won their slots in Haneda, is there any information on how many slots Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways will receive to the US, is there any information on when they will be delivered?

Another doubt the slots were only for the US? countries in Europe, the Middle East, Asia Pacific will receive any slot?


As it was renegotiation of the US-Japan bilateral agreement no. The other countries would only be involved if they were renegotiating their bilateral agreements.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:47 am

Just to put into context The following countries have active slots at Hanenda according to http://www.haneda-airport.jp/inter/en/f ... tml#europe

Australia, Canada [YVR, YYZ], EU Countries -UK, France, Germany [FRA & MUC] & Austria
South East Asia: Thailand, Vietnam [SGN & HAN] Indonesia, Malaysia, Phillipines & Singapore
Middel East: UAE & Doha. Korea: ICN & GMP
China: 8 cities including HKG & Taipea

Gemuser
 
a19901213
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:00 pm

Gemuser wrote:
Just to put into context The following countries have active slots at Hanenda according to http://www.haneda-airport.jp/inter/en/f ... tml#europe

Australia, Canada [YVR, YYZ], EU Countries -UK, France, Germany [FRA & MUC] & Austria
South East Asia: Thailand, Vietnam [SGN & HAN] Indonesia, Malaysia, Phillipines & Singapore
Middel East: UAE & Doha. Korea: ICN & GMP
China: 8 cities including HKG & Taipea

Gemuser


It’s Taipei and I wouldn’t put it as a city of China.
 
jayunited
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:20 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
Virgin Atlantic have stated that they would consider relaunching Tokyo flights if they can get Haneda slots. Maybe the Delta tie up and increasing slots at HND will finally relaunch the London Heathrow route on VS


I'm not sure I completely understand what you are suggesting and how Delta's partnership with Virgin Atlantic comes into play.
The U.S. was awarded 12 slots for service to HND. After the U.S. was awarded those slots the decision on how those slots would be divvied up was decided by the DOT. If you are some how suggesting that DL could transfer one of their slots to the JV partner VS that simply isn't possible. On the other hand if Japan did award the United Kingdom additional slot it will then be up to the UK's version of the DOT (I don't know the proper name) to decided which UK airlines are awarded those additional slots. I'm not sure DL has any power here to influence the UK's decision and if you are suggesting DL somehow does have power to influence then one has to consider the other alliance between AA and BA.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:32 pm

a19901213 wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
Just to put into context The following countries have active slots at Hanenda according to http://www.haneda-airport.jp/inter/en/f ... tml#europe

Australia, Canada [YVR, YYZ], EU Countries -UK, France, Germany [FRA & MUC] & Austria
South East Asia: Thailand, Vietnam [SGN & HAN] Indonesia, Malaysia, Phillipines & Singapore
Middel East: UAE & Doha. Korea: ICN & GMP
China: 8 cities including HKG & Taipea

Gemuser


It’s Taipei and I wouldn’t put it as a city of China.


China does!
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:57 pm

Last time they went through awarding additional international authorities several countries were on the top of the waitlist - New Zealand, Turkey, UAE, Netherlands and Swizterland per my notes.

However its also been stated by the Japanese government they would like to beef up additional regional links such as to ASEAN, so the awards might favor such flying instead of longhauls.

Also as eluded to prior, the only reason the U.S. received the additional access was because it agreed to yield access to airspace for commercial use which previously belonged to Yokota Air Base.
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TWA85
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:40 pm

jayunited wrote:
SeanM1997 wrote:
Virgin Atlantic have stated that they would consider relaunching Tokyo flights if they can get Haneda slots. Maybe the Delta tie up and increasing slots at HND will finally relaunch the London Heathrow route on VS


I'm not sure I completely understand what you are suggesting and how Delta's partnership with Virgin Atlantic comes into play.
The U.S. was awarded 12 slots for service to HND. After the U.S. was awarded those slots the decision on how those slots would be divvied up was decided by the DOT. If you are some how suggesting that DL could transfer one of their slots to the JV partner VS that simply isn't possible. On the other hand if Japan did award the United Kingdom additional slot it will then be up to the UK's version of the DOT (I don't know the proper name) to decided which UK airlines are awarded those additional slots. I'm not sure DL has any power here to influence the UK's decision and if you are suggesting DL somehow does have power to influence then one has to consider the other alliance between AA and BA.


I believe what SeanM1997 is suggesting is Delta's marketing and sales strength in Japan could help Virgin Atlantic be more successful flying to HND compared to when they flew to NRT. If I'm not mistaken, the DL/AF/KL joint venture (carried over from the NW/KL days) has a global joint sales force instead of just North America and Europe. If this is the case, then Virgin could leverage the sales force of DL/AF/KL in Japan.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Haneda slots

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:49 pm

Gemuser wrote:
a19901213 wrote:
Gemuser wrote:
Just to put into context The following countries have active slots at Hanenda according to http://www.haneda-airport.jp/inter/en/f ... tml#europe

Australia, Canada [YVR, YYZ], EU Countries -UK, France, Germany [FRA & MUC] & Austria
South East Asia: Thailand, Vietnam [SGN & HAN] Indonesia, Malaysia, Phillipines & Singapore
Middel East: UAE & Doha. Korea: ICN & GMP
China: 8 cities including HKG & Taipea

Gemuser


It’s Taipei and I wouldn’t put it as a city of China.


China does!


But that doesn’t matter as both Taiwan and HK has separate aviation authority, and separate bilateral from mainland PRC (Taiwan-Japan is open skies outside of HND IIRC).

For Europe KLM and AY are probably both going to fight for HND slots, as is Swiss.
 
raptorbandito
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Re: Haneda slots

Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:42 am

EK77WNH wrote:
I’m going to Kyoto next month from Boston and the JAL nonstop to NRT makes things a bit more complicated... not less. So I’m taking Korean’s 787-9 to Seoul and backtracking to Osaka. Same in reverse. A HND nonstop from Boston would certainly have kept me on JAL metal (or someone else’s).

How is it more complicated? There is a 18:25 flight from NRT to ITM on JL. the BOS-NRT gets in at 16:00 more than enough time to connect in NRT. Itami is also the main domestic airport for Osaka and is much closer than KIX to Kyoto. Its like a $12 bus that takes about an hour to go from Itami to Kyoto station compared to a 1hr 20 min express train that cost $34 for KIX.
 
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teme82
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Re: Haneda slots

Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:16 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
For Europe KLM and AY are probably both going to fight for HND slots, as is Swiss.

AY is the stronger choice since it's bigger in Japan than KLM or Swiss.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Haneda slots

Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:29 pm

teme82 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
For Europe KLM and AY are probably both going to fight for HND slots, as is Swiss.

AY is the stronger choice since it's bigger in Japan than KLM or Swiss.


Look at Gemuser's post #4. It's up to the negotiating government to award the slots to specific carriers, not the government of Japan. I wouldn't assume that Switzerland is part of a bilateral EU-Japan slot negotiation.
 
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teme82
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:40 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
teme82 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
For Europe KLM and AY are probably both going to fight for HND slots, as is Swiss.

AY is the stronger choice since it's bigger in Japan than KLM or Swiss.


Look at Gemuser's post #4. It's up to the negotiating government to award the slots to specific carriers, not the government of Japan. I wouldn't assume that Switzerland is part of a bilateral EU-Japan slot negotiation.

You are correct there. I meant that AY has stronger presence in Japan than many other mainline EU carriers. So they do have a case for getting the Haneda slots. And the Japanese side could lose face if AY don't get the slots. So they might try to influence the carrier choice.
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jplatts
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:02 pm

teme82 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
teme82 wrote:
AY is the stronger choice since it's bigger in Japan than KLM or Swiss.


Look at Gemuser's post #4. It's up to the negotiating government to award the slots to specific carriers, not the government of Japan. I wouldn't assume that Switzerland is part of a bilateral EU-Japan slot negotiation.

You are correct there. I meant that AY has stronger presence in Japan than many other mainline EU carriers. So they do have a case for getting the Haneda slots. And the Japanese side could lose face if AY don't get the slots. So they might try to influence the carrier choice.


AY and JL are also both in the oneworld alliance, whereas KL is in the SkyTeam Alliance.

LX is in Star Alliance along with NH, and LX might have a case for HND slots due to LX and NH both being in Star Alliance.
 
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teme82
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:33 pm

jplatts wrote:
teme82 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Look at Gemuser's post #4. It's up to the negotiating government to award the slots to specific carriers, not the government of Japan. I wouldn't assume that Switzerland is part of a bilateral EU-Japan slot negotiation.

You are correct there. I meant that AY has stronger presence in Japan than many other mainline EU carriers. So they do have a case for getting the Haneda slots. And the Japanese side could lose face if AY don't get the slots. So they might try to influence the carrier choice.


AY and JL are also both in the oneworld alliance, whereas KL is in the SkyTeam Alliance.

LX is in Star Alliance along with NH, and LX might have a case for HND slots due to LX and NH both being in Star Alliance.

Yes if Swiss will get slots being non EU carrier, it's parent company have a lot of slots in Haneda. Depends where the government will give the slots. If it's all for EU carriers then AY is strong. Usually alliance means nothing in these things. AY plus JL are combined rather strong.
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LAXdude1023
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:13 pm

If NH decides to use another slot for a US flight, I dont see how it wouldnt be IAH considering its the only JV hub without HND service.
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Planes4you
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:01 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
If NH decides to use another slot for a US flight, I dont see how it wouldnt be IAH considering its the only JV hub without HND service.



IAD doesn’t have HND service and neither does EWR
 
ITSTours
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:05 pm

Planes4you wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
If NH decides to use another slot for a US flight, I dont see how it wouldnt be IAH considering its the only JV hub without HND service.



IAD doesn’t have HND service and neither does EWR

Don't we all know that UA got slots for IAD and EWR?
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:12 pm

Planes4you wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
If NH decides to use another slot for a US flight, I dont see how it wouldnt be IAH considering its the only JV hub without HND service.



IAD doesn’t have HND service and neither does EWR


UA was just awarded slots for IAD/EWR to HND. So yeah they will.
Religion is the root of evil...
 
Planes4you
Posts: 310
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:13 pm

So who will JAL start service to From HND with their new slot
Last edited by Planes4you on Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Planes4you
Posts: 310
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:15 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
If NH decides to use another slot for a US flight, I dont see how it wouldnt be IAH considering its the only JV hub without HND service.



IAD doesn’t have HND service and neither does EWR


UA was just awarded slots for IAD/EWR to HND. So yeah they will.


Still YYZ,and DEN doesn’t have service and iah got rejected (
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:23 pm

Planes4you wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:


IAD doesn’t have HND service and neither does EWR


UA was just awarded slots for IAD/EWR to HND. So yeah they will.


Still YYZ,and DEN doesn’t have service and iah got rejected (


1) NH doesnt serve YYZ
2) AC and NH dont have a Joint Venture
3) UA didnt apply for DEN-HND thus letting us know its not a priority for the JV
Religion is the root of evil...
 
HeeseokKoo
Posts: 812
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:54 pm

Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:41 pm

LAXintl wrote:
However its also been stated by the Japanese government they would like to beef up additional regional links such as to ASEAN, so the awards might favor such flying instead of longhauls.

Makes sense. To fill that many additional US flights, NH+JL needs more Asian flights.
 
ITSTours
Posts: 361
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Re: Haneda slots

Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:52 pm

HeeseokKoo wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
However its also been stated by the Japanese government they would like to beef up additional regional links such as to ASEAN, so the awards might favor such flying instead of longhauls.

Makes sense. To fill that many additional US flights, NH+JL needs more Asian flights.

Or they could reduce NRT flights as well (like most of their European flights). We have to wait and see how it goes.
 
YYZORD
Posts: 288
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Re: Haneda slots

Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:09 am

Assuming AC has a HND slot for YYZ, would NH add YYZ from NRT instead or get a second HND Canada slot for YYZ 2nd daily service along with AC's. Or maybe JL will get a slot and move their YVR service to HND?

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