Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
worldtraveler2 wrote:The airline will inaugurate its newest narrow-body Airbus A321neo on the route.
aeromoe wrote:worldtraveler2 wrote:The airline will inaugurate its newest narrow-body Airbus A321neo on the route.
How do we know it will be inaugurated with Hawaiian's newest A321neo?
LAXdude1023 wrote:I believe this will be a re-launch. HA flew OGG-LAS a few years back.
sprxUSA wrote:Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??
sprxUSA wrote:Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??
sprxUSA wrote:Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??
ericm2031 wrote:Considering they’ve been running 3x HNL-LAS on A330s, this makes a lot of sense and I’m surprised they didn’t already run it. Was the OGG runway a limitation?
sprxUSA wrote:Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??
MSPNWA wrote:sprxUSA wrote:Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??
Yes, or depart at 6:30am. Brutal times if you ask me.
RWA380 wrote:sprxUSA wrote:Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??
Hawaiian tourists to ninth Island. Work all day, get home, eat dinner, fly to Vegas & have a full day. I booked travel for years while living in Hawaii, the downtown hotels cater to the Hawaiian clients very nicely & in/outs at 5-6am is not a problem, nor are check outs at midnight to four in the morning for their 2:30am to HNL & now 6:30am to OGG. This is a big market, Vegas is the #1 outbound tourist destination for locals.
LAX772LR wrote:Personally, I'd have far more issue with the arrival time than the departure.
I usually try take the first flight of the day whenever I'm going anywhere leisure, so 6:30am departure is par for me.
But a 4:30am arrival time?
....you're tired as hell, but aren't guaranteed to be able to check into your hotel for 9.5hrs? Screw that!
wedgetail737 wrote:RWA380 wrote:sprxUSA wrote:Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??
Hawaiian tourists to ninth Island. Work all day, get home, eat dinner, fly to Vegas & have a full day. I booked travel for years while living in Hawaii, the downtown hotels cater to the Hawaiian clients very nicely & in/outs at 5-6am is not a problem, nor are check outs at midnight to four in the morning for their 2:30am to HNL & now 6:30am to OGG. This is a big market, Vegas is the #1 outbound tourist destination for locals.
Especially the California and Plaza Casinos!
RWA380 wrote:We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.
wedgetail737 wrote:RWA380 wrote:sprxUSA wrote:Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??
Hawaiian tourists to ninth Island. Work all day, get home, eat dinner, fly to Vegas & have a full day. I booked travel for years while living in Hawaii, the downtown hotels cater to the Hawaiian clients very nicely & in/outs at 5-6am is not a problem, nor are check outs at midnight to four in the morning for their 2:30am to HNL & now 6:30am to OGG. This is a big market, Vegas is the #1 outbound tourist destination for locals.
Especially the California and Plaza Casinos!
LAX772LR wrote:Personally, I'd have far more issue with the arrival time than the departure.
I usually try take the first flight of the day whenever I'm going anywhere leisure, so 6:30am departure is par for me.
But a 4:30am arrival time?
....you're tired as hell, but aren't guaranteed to be able to check into your hotel for 9.5hrs? Screw that!
questions wrote:This is amazing. Combined with HA’s other flights I would have never guessed all the route potential between HI and LAS.
jetwet1 wrote:wedgetail737 wrote:RWA380 wrote:
Hawaiian tourists to ninth Island. Work all day, get home, eat dinner, fly to Vegas & have a full day. I booked travel for years while living in Hawaii, the downtown hotels cater to the Hawaiian clients very nicely & in/outs at 5-6am is not a problem, nor are check outs at midnight to four in the morning for their 2:30am to HNL & now 6:30am to OGG. This is a big market, Vegas is the #1 outbound tourist destination for locals.
Especially the California and Plaza Casinos!
Close, The Cal, Fremont and Main Street, with Sam's Town for some groups. The 6.30am return is so they can play all night then return in time for work.
Good add to the network.LAX772LR wrote:Personally, I'd have far more issue with the arrival time than the departure.
I usually try take the first flight of the day whenever I'm going anywhere leisure, so 6:30am departure is par for me.
But a 4:30am arrival time?
....you're tired as hell, but aren't guaranteed to be able to check into your hotel for 9.5hrs? Screw that!
They can check in when they get to the hotel, the downtown hotels know their market, rather than have the rooms turned between 10am-3pm they start turning them at 3am, strange I know, but after 40 years of catering to the Hawaii market and the flight times they have it down.questions wrote:This is amazing. Combined with HA’s other flights I would have never guessed all the route potential between HI and LAS.
There is also an Omni 767 that does LAS-HNL 2-3 times a week on charter to Vacations Hawaii.
MSPNWA wrote:RWA380 wrote:We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.
Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.
And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.
MSPNWA wrote:RWA380 wrote:We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.
Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.
And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.
RWA380 wrote:
Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.
And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.
RWA380 wrote:
There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the "Di Di Ay Oh & away we go" with Di Di Ay Ohg, I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12 midnight, better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.
jetwet1 wrote:MSPNWA wrote:RWA380 wrote:We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.
Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.
And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.
You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.RWA380 wrote:
Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.
And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.
Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.
RWA380 wrote:
There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the "Di Di Ay Oh & away we go" with Di Di Ay Ohg, I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12 midnight, better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.
shibal wrote:aeromoe wrote:worldtraveler2 wrote:The airline will inaugurate its newest narrow-body Airbus A321neo on the route.
How do we know it will be inaugurated with Hawaiian's newest A321neo?
The press release by Hawaiian Airlines mentions the A321neo to be inaugurated with the route.
questions wrote:LAXdude1023 wrote:Planes4you wrote:If only they flew to DFW
Not relevant to this thread.
Should someone report the poster to the authorities?
Ishrion wrote:LAX772LR wrote:Personally, I'd have far more issue with the arrival time than the departure.
I usually try take the first flight of the day whenever I'm going anywhere leisure, so 6:30am departure is par for me.
But a 4:30am arrival time?
....you're tired as hell, but aren't guaranteed to be able to check into your hotel for 9.5hrs? Screw that!
On AA's HND slot application, they applied for LAX-HND with a departure time of about 12:30 a.m. and arrival of 4:40 a.m... that'll be fun for those in Y.
aemoreira1981 wrote:Secondarily now---I wonder if HA can build up a secondary hub at OGG now that it can fly to other destinations on the West Coast, and potentially also in the South Pacific, using the A321neo on destinations that previously required a wide-body. (The issue, of course, would be the location of suitable alternatives.)
questions wrote:This is amazing. Combined with HA’s other flights I would have never guessed all the route potential between HI and LAS.
MIflyer12 wrote:Blueknows wrote:Wondering if B6 will do the ground handling and check in? There has been some Internal news about B6 heading to Hawaii soon, and could involve HA
Off-topic, but who handles the present HA LAS-HNL flights?
Laulau wrote:For everyone wondering about the departure times in and out of Vegas. Aircraft performance limitations with the 321NEO are driving the earlier departure times. Payload restrictions increase as the day gets warmer..... Flight has a tight 2 hour turn to accomplish this. That doesn't mean that it will be adequate once the winter headwinds start up again and required ETOPS fuel requirements increase.
RWA380 wrote:I lived in Hawaii for years, I was the lead agent at the largest locally owned travel company in the state of Hawaii. We had 13 offices over 4 Islands & were consistently the largest generator of revenue for both Aloha & Hawaiian Airlines for Hawaii POS. Both carriers served Las Vegas & we booked our own packages with bulk rates provided to us by the Carriers & Hotels like the California, Fremont & many of the downtown hotels. This is something I got a good understanding of, because I lived it & I know it hasn't changed.
Our leisure offices had hundreds of calls a day each, number one query "Hey, how much your cheapest Vegas package Air/Hotel, no car?".
Second most was "Hey, How much your cheapest fly/drive to neighbor Island?", We generated 25 Million of dollars a year in revenue & 95% or better was Hawaii POS. That was 20 years ago.
Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand, I had many clients that went 2-3 times a year, some of my HGEA/IBEW groups were 60 passengers or better, they'd all give equal amounts each pay-day & once the fund hit enough, they ALL went to Vegas. They don't care about the rooms so much, If it's clean, they can sleep, freshen up & keep their stuff & that is more than adequate for most locals.
Even Hawaiians that want to splurge, will book an upgraded suite downtown Vegas than on the strip at the big spendy Bellagios & that type. They are a more bang for your buck mindset & there is almost nothing I have heard of 4 people in a room with 2 queen beds, big groups being allowed an entire floor, even within one property, the locals are not going to be as bothered by ice machines, stairways or location to the parking lot if it saves off of the room rates.
This is now what is really happening, HA is taking the OGG-KOA/ITO bound traffic off the 2:30am HNL flight over the Holidays & going forward (when this is coming to fruition) allowing HA to carry many more Oahu residents & those going to LIH, remember traditionally all airlines offer steep discounts to Hawaii residents at the holidays to leave on flights to the mainland on dates like Dec19-26 leaving Hawaii & returning after Jan 3rd, it prevents full planes of tourists coming for the holidays & the airlines flying empty planes back. They are called Mele fares & we paid $350 r/t on UA HNL-SFO-PDX-SFO-HNL.
There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the TV ad catch phrase was, "I'm Di Di Ai Oh & away you go", I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12AM, HP was better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.
jetwet1 wrote:You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.
Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.
MSPNWA wrote:RWA380 wrote:I lived in Hawaii for years, I was the lead agent at the largest locally owned travel company in the state of Hawaii. We had 13 offices over 4 Islands & were consistently the largest generator of revenue for both Aloha & Hawaiian Airlines for Hawaii POS. Both carriers served Las Vegas & we booked our own packages with bulk rates provided to us by the Carriers & Hotels like the California, Fremont & many of the downtown hotels. This is something I got a good understanding of, because I lived it & I know it hasn't changed.
Our leisure offices had hundreds of calls a day each, number one query "Hey, how much your cheapest Vegas package Air/Hotel, no car?".
Second most was "Hey, How much your cheapest fly/drive to neighbor Island?", We generated 25 Million of dollars a year in revenue & 95% or better was Hawaii POS. That was 20 years ago.
Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand, I had many clients that went 2-3 times a year, some of my HGEA/IBEW groups were 60 passengers or better, they'd all give equal amounts each pay-day & once the fund hit enough, they ALL went to Vegas. They don't care about the rooms so much, If it's clean, they can sleep, freshen up & keep their stuff & that is more than adequate for most locals.
Even Hawaiians that want to splurge, will book an upgraded suite downtown Vegas than on the strip at the big spendy Bellagios & that type. They are a more bang for your buck mindset & there is almost nothing I have heard of 4 people in a room with 2 queen beds, big groups being allowed an entire floor, even within one property, the locals are not going to be as bothered by ice machines, stairways or location to the parking lot if it saves off of the room rates.
This is now what is really happening, HA is taking the OGG-KOA/ITO bound traffic off the 2:30am HNL flight over the Holidays & going forward (when this is coming to fruition) allowing HA to carry many more Oahu residents & those going to LIH, remember traditionally all airlines offer steep discounts to Hawaii residents at the holidays to leave on flights to the mainland on dates like Dec19-26 leaving Hawaii & returning after Jan 3rd, it prevents full planes of tourists coming for the holidays & the airlines flying empty planes back. They are called Mele fares & we paid $350 r/t on UA HNL-SFO-PDX-SFO-HNL.
There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the TV ad catch phrase was, "I'm Di Di Ai Oh & away you go", I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12AM, HP was better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.
I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.
The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.jetwet1 wrote:You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.
Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.
No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.
If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.
MSPNWA wrote:RWA380 wrote:I lived in Hawaii for years, I was the lead agent at the largest locally owned travel company in the state of Hawaii. We had 13 offices over 4 Islands & were consistently the largest generator of revenue for both Aloha & Hawaiian Airlines for Hawaii POS. Both carriers served Las Vegas & we booked our own packages with bulk rates provided to us by the Carriers & Hotels like the California, Fremont & many of the downtown hotels. This is something I got a good understanding of, because I lived it & I know it hasn't changed.
Our leisure offices had hundreds of calls a day each, number one query "Hey, how much your cheapest Vegas package Air/Hotel, no car?".
Second most was "Hey, How much your cheapest fly/drive to neighbor Island?", We generated 25 Million of dollars a year in revenue & 95% or better was Hawaii POS. That was 20 years ago.
Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand, I had many clients that went 2-3 times a year, some of my HGEA/IBEW groups were 60 passengers or better, they'd all give equal amounts each pay-day & once the fund hit enough, they ALL went to Vegas. They don't care about the rooms so much, If it's clean, they can sleep, freshen up & keep their stuff & that is more than adequate for most locals.
Even Hawaiians that want to splurge, will book an upgraded suite downtown Vegas than on the strip at the big spendy Bellagios & that type. They are a more bang for your buck mindset & there is almost nothing I have heard of 4 people in a room with 2 queen beds, big groups being allowed an entire floor, even within one property, the locals are not going to be as bothered by ice machines, stairways or location to the parking lot if it saves off of the room rates.
This is now what is really happening, HA is taking the OGG-KOA/ITO bound traffic off the 2:30am HNL flight over the Holidays & going forward (when this is coming to fruition) allowing HA to carry many more Oahu residents & those going to LIH, remember traditionally all airlines offer steep discounts to Hawaii residents at the holidays to leave on flights to the mainland on dates like Dec19-26 leaving Hawaii & returning after Jan 3rd, it prevents full planes of tourists coming for the holidays & the airlines flying empty planes back. They are called Mele fares & we paid $350 r/t on UA HNL-SFO-PDX-SFO-HNL.
There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the TV ad catch phrase was, "I'm Di Di Ai Oh & away you go", I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12AM, HP was better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.
I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.
The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.jetwet1 wrote:You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.
Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.
No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.
If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.
RWA380 wrote:MSPNWA wrote:RWA380 wrote:I lived in Hawaii for years, I was the lead agent at the largest locally owned travel company in the state of Hawaii. We had 13 offices over 4 Islands & were consistently the largest generator of revenue for both Aloha & Hawaiian Airlines for Hawaii POS. Both carriers served Las Vegas & we booked our own packages with bulk rates provided to us by the Carriers & Hotels like the California, Fremont & many of the downtown hotels. This is something I got a good understanding of, because I lived it & I know it hasn't changed.
Our leisure offices had hundreds of calls a day each, number one query "Hey, how much your cheapest Vegas package Air/Hotel, no car?".
Second most was "Hey, How much your cheapest fly/drive to neighbor Island?", We generated 25 Million of dollars a year in revenue & 95% or better was Hawaii POS. That was 20 years ago.
Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand, I had many clients that went 2-3 times a year, some of my HGEA/IBEW groups were 60 passengers or better, they'd all give equal amounts each pay-day & once the fund hit enough, they ALL went to Vegas. They don't care about the rooms so much, If it's clean, they can sleep, freshen up & keep their stuff & that is more than adequate for most locals.
Even Hawaiians that want to splurge, will book an upgraded suite downtown Vegas than on the strip at the big spendy Bellagios & that type. They are a more bang for your buck mindset & there is almost nothing I have heard of 4 people in a room with 2 queen beds, big groups being allowed an entire floor, even within one property, the locals are not going to be as bothered by ice machines, stairways or location to the parking lot if it saves off of the room rates.
This is now what is really happening, HA is taking the OGG-KOA/ITO bound traffic off the 2:30am HNL flight over the Holidays & going forward (when this is coming to fruition) allowing HA to carry many more Oahu residents & those going to LIH, remember traditionally all airlines offer steep discounts to Hawaii residents at the holidays to leave on flights to the mainland on dates like Dec19-26 leaving Hawaii & returning after Jan 3rd, it prevents full planes of tourists coming for the holidays & the airlines flying empty planes back. They are called Mele fares & we paid $350 r/t on UA HNL-SFO-PDX-SFO-HNL.
There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the TV ad catch phrase was, "I'm Di Di Ai Oh & away you go", I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12AM, HP was better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.
I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.
The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.jetwet1 wrote:You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.
Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.
No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.
If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.
Here read this please before you embarrass yourself further, this is why I hate sharing knowledge here, there is always one person just like you - https://www.quora.com/Where-do-people-f ... r-vacation
ASFlyer wrote:RWA380 wrote:MSPNWA wrote:
I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.
The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.
No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.
If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.
Here read this please before you embarrass yourself further, this is why I hate sharing knowledge here, there is always one person just like you - https://www.quora.com/Where-do-people-f ... r-vacation
I don't know one way or another, and I hope these new flights are successful, but I think MSPNWA's point is that the population on Maui is about 15% of the population on Oahu. That, coupled with the fact that HNL benefits from a wide range of connections from all of the other islands, makes HNL a natural. Still, it seems like a daily flight to LAS may be difficult to fill from OGG without all the connecting traffic and a MUCH smaller local population. Again, hope it works, but based solely on the numbers, I can see where one would be skeptical. Good for HA for trying and I hope it works.
ASFlyer wrote:RWA380 wrote:MSPNWA wrote:
I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.
The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.
No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.
If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.
Here read this please before you embarrass yourself further, this is why I hate sharing knowledge here, there is always one person just like you - https://www.quora.com/Where-do-people-f ... r-vacation
I don't know one way or another, and I hope these new flights are successful, but I think MSPNWA's point is that the population on Maui is about 15% of the population on Oahu. That, coupled with the fact that HNL benefits from a wide range of connections from all of the other islands, makes HNL a natural. Still, it seems like a daily flight to LAS may be difficult to fill from OGG without all the connecting traffic and a MUCH smaller local population. Again, hope it works, but based solely on the numbers, I can see where one would be skeptical. Good for HA for trying and I hope it works.
Laulau wrote:For everyone wondering about the departure times in and out of Vegas. Aircraft performance limitations with the 321NEO are driving the earlier departure times. Payload restrictions increase as the day gets warmer..... Flight has a tight 2 hour turn to accomplish this. That doesn't mean that it will be adequate once the winter headwinds start up again and required ETOPS fuel requirements increase.
aloha73g wrote:ASFlyer wrote:RWA380 wrote:
Here read this please before you embarrass yourself further, this is why I hate sharing knowledge here, there is always one person just like you - https://www.quora.com/Where-do-people-f ... r-vacation
I don't know one way or another, and I hope these new flights are successful, but I think MSPNWA's point is that the population on Maui is about 15% of the population on Oahu. That, coupled with the fact that HNL benefits from a wide range of connections from all of the other islands, makes HNL a natural. Still, it seems like a daily flight to LAS may be difficult to fill from OGG without all the connecting traffic and a MUCH smaller local population. Again, hope it works, but based solely on the numbers, I can see where one would be skeptical. Good for HA for trying and I hope it works.
OGG-LAS will be 4x weekly. Not daily. 4 x 189 = 756 seats each week
HNL-LAS is 18x weekly on HA. 18 x 278 = 5,004 seats each week.
The ratio of seats to population for O‘ahu and Maui are nearly identical.
-Aloha!
MSPNWA wrote:RWA380 wrote:We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.
Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.
And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.
gaystudpilot wrote:seat1a wrote:questions wrote:
Should someone report the poster to the authorities?
Paging atcsundevil! LOL, there's some good humor on here.
Airliners Andy joins Permit Patty and BBQ Becky in a citizens arrest!
MSPNWA wrote:
I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.
The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.
jetwet1 wrote:You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.
Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.