worldtraveler2
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HA to launch OGG-LAS

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:13 pm

Hawaiian Airlines announced new four-times-weekly service between Maui’s Kahului Airport (OGG) and Las Vegas’ McCarran International Airport (LAS), set to begin on Dec. 15, 2019.

The airline will inaugurate its newest narrow-body Airbus A321neo on the route.

Kahului (OGG) – Las Vegas (LAS)

FLT ROUTE DEPARTS ARRIVES FREQUENCY STARTS
HA32 OGG-LAS 8:50 pm 4:30 am Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun 15DEC19
HA31 LAS-OGG 6:30 am 11:00 am Mon/Tue/Thu/Sat 16DEC19

The airline today also announced the start of sales for two other new A321neo routes:

* thrice-weekly nonstop service between Honolulu’s Daniel K. Inouye International Airport (HNL) and Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (SEA) starting Jan. 7
* seasonal winter service between OGG and Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) from Dec. 14 through Jan. 5.

Source:
https://mauinow.com/2019/08/12/hawaiian-airlines-to-launch-new-maui-to-las-vegas-flights-in-december/
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:39 pm

I believe this will be a re-launch. HA flew OGG-LAS a few years back.
Religion is the root of evil...
 
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aeromoe
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:04 pm

worldtraveler2 wrote:
The airline will inaugurate its newest narrow-body Airbus A321neo on the route.


How do we know it will be inaugurated with Hawaiian's newest A321neo?
AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR BY B6 CO CP(2) DG DL EA EI EN FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(1) OZ(2) PA PI PT QF QQ RM RO RV(1) RV(2) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(2) ZZ 9K
 
shibal
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:15 pm

aeromoe wrote:
worldtraveler2 wrote:
The airline will inaugurate its newest narrow-body Airbus A321neo on the route.


How do we know it will be inaugurated with Hawaiian's newest A321neo?



The press release by Hawaiian Airlines mentions the A321neo to be inaugurated with the route.
 
worldtraveler2
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:21 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I believe this will be a re-launch. HA flew OGG-LAS a few years back.

Yes, Hawaiian flew OGG-LAS twice weekly between October 3, 2010 and November 2012.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:14 am

I know that HA had flown the redeye HNL-SEA during the X-mas season a couple of years. It's good to see HA adding more flights to SEA.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:44 am

Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:49 am

sprxUSA wrote:
Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??


There is almost certainly a codeshare at the LAS end. The idea is to then turn it around so that people arrive at HNL in time to check into hotels.
 
B747forever
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:49 am

sprxUSA wrote:
Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??


With the schedule they have, arriving LAS at 4:30am and departing 6:30am, this flight clearly caters for LAS originating passengers. It is a typical red eye Hawaii-West Coast schedule, so that 4:30am arrival is nothing out of the ordinary.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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RWA380
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:57 am

sprxUSA wrote:
Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??


Hawaiian tourists to ninth Island. Work all day, get home, eat dinner, fly to Vegas & have a full day. I booked travel for years while living in Hawaii, the downtown hotels cater to the Hawaiian clients very nicely & in/outs at 5-6am is not a problem, nor are check outs at midnight to four in the morning for their 2:30am to HNL & now 6:30am to OGG. This is a big market, Vegas is the #1 outbound tourist destination for locals.
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ericm2031
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:20 am

Considering they’ve been running 3x HNL-LAS on A330s, this makes a lot of sense and I’m surprised they didn’t already run it. Was the OGG runway a limitation?
 
continental004
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:42 am

Those flight times are death
 
crownvic
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:36 am

ericm2031 wrote:
Considering they’ve been running 3x HNL-LAS on A330s, this makes a lot of sense and I’m surprised they didn’t already run it. Was the OGG runway a limitation?


Previous LAS-OGG service was on the 763. I am not sure what the runway limitations are on the 763 vs 332.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:43 am

sprxUSA wrote:
Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??


Yes, or depart at 6:30am. Brutal times if you ask me.
 
joeblow10
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:52 am

MSPNWA wrote:
sprxUSA wrote:
Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??


Yes, or depart at 6:30am. Brutal times if you ask me.


The 4:30a arrival makes a lot more sense than the 6:30a departure if you ask me...
 
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airportugal310
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:06 am

RWA380 explained it all quite well. Not sure why so many questions about “why”...these flights will do quite well, IMHO
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LAX772LR
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:12 am

Personally, I'd have far more issue with the arrival time than the departure.
I usually try take the first flight of the day whenever I'm going anywhere leisure, so 6:30am departure is par for me.

But a 4:30am arrival time?
....you're tired as hell, but aren't guaranteed to be able to check into your hotel for 9.5hrs? Screw that!
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
wedgetail737
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:38 am

RWA380 wrote:
sprxUSA wrote:
Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??


Hawaiian tourists to ninth Island. Work all day, get home, eat dinner, fly to Vegas & have a full day. I booked travel for years while living in Hawaii, the downtown hotels cater to the Hawaiian clients very nicely & in/outs at 5-6am is not a problem, nor are check outs at midnight to four in the morning for their 2:30am to HNL & now 6:30am to OGG. This is a big market, Vegas is the #1 outbound tourist destination for locals.


Especially the California and Plaza Casinos!
 
Ishrion
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:40 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Personally, I'd have far more issue with the arrival time than the departure.
I usually try take the first flight of the day whenever I'm going anywhere leisure, so 6:30am departure is par for me.

But a 4:30am arrival time?
....you're tired as hell, but aren't guaranteed to be able to check into your hotel for 9.5hrs? Screw that!


On AA's HND slot application, they applied for LAX-HND with a departure time of about 12:30 a.m. and arrival of 4:40 a.m... that'll be fun for those in Y.
 
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RWA380
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:24 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
sprxUSA wrote:
Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??


Hawaiian tourists to ninth Island. Work all day, get home, eat dinner, fly to Vegas & have a full day. I booked travel for years while living in Hawaii, the downtown hotels cater to the Hawaiian clients very nicely & in/outs at 5-6am is not a problem, nor are check outs at midnight to four in the morning for their 2:30am to HNL & now 6:30am to OGG. This is a big market, Vegas is the #1 outbound tourist destination for locals.


Especially the California and Plaza Casinos!


We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
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MSPNWA
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:40 am

RWA380 wrote:
We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.


Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.

And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.
 
questions
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:52 am

This is amazing. Combined with HA’s other flights I would have never guessed all the route potential between HI and LAS.
 
jetwet1
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:55 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
sprxUSA wrote:
Who the hell wants to arr LAS at 4:30am??


Hawaiian tourists to ninth Island. Work all day, get home, eat dinner, fly to Vegas & have a full day. I booked travel for years while living in Hawaii, the downtown hotels cater to the Hawaiian clients very nicely & in/outs at 5-6am is not a problem, nor are check outs at midnight to four in the morning for their 2:30am to HNL & now 6:30am to OGG. This is a big market, Vegas is the #1 outbound tourist destination for locals.


Especially the California and Plaza Casinos!


Close, The Cal, Fremont and Main Street, with Sam's Town for some groups. The 6.30am return is so they can play all night then return in time for work.

Good add to the network.

LAX772LR wrote:
Personally, I'd have far more issue with the arrival time than the departure.
I usually try take the first flight of the day whenever I'm going anywhere leisure, so 6:30am departure is par for me.

But a 4:30am arrival time?
....you're tired as hell, but aren't guaranteed to be able to check into your hotel for 9.5hrs? Screw that!


They can check in when they get to the hotel, the downtown hotels know their market, rather than have the rooms turned between 10am-3pm they start turning them at 3am, strange I know, but after 40 years of catering to the Hawaii market and the flight times they have it down.

questions wrote:
This is amazing. Combined with HA’s other flights I would have never guessed all the route potential between HI and LAS.


There is also an Omni 767 that does LAS-HNL 2-3 times a week on charter to Vacations Hawaii.
 
dampfnudel
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:24 am

jetwet1 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Hawaiian tourists to ninth Island. Work all day, get home, eat dinner, fly to Vegas & have a full day. I booked travel for years while living in Hawaii, the downtown hotels cater to the Hawaiian clients very nicely & in/outs at 5-6am is not a problem, nor are check outs at midnight to four in the morning for their 2:30am to HNL & now 6:30am to OGG. This is a big market, Vegas is the #1 outbound tourist destination for locals.


Especially the California and Plaza Casinos!


Close, The Cal, Fremont and Main Street, with Sam's Town for some groups. The 6.30am return is so they can play all night then return in time for work.

Good add to the network.

LAX772LR wrote:
Personally, I'd have far more issue with the arrival time than the departure.
I usually try take the first flight of the day whenever I'm going anywhere leisure, so 6:30am departure is par for me.

But a 4:30am arrival time?
....you're tired as hell, but aren't guaranteed to be able to check into your hotel for 9.5hrs? Screw that!


They can check in when they get to the hotel, the downtown hotels know their market, rather than have the rooms turned between 10am-3pm they start turning them at 3am, strange I know, but after 40 years of catering to the Hawaii market and the flight times they have it down.

questions wrote:
This is amazing. Combined with HA’s other flights I would have never guessed all the route potential between HI and LAS.


There is also an Omni 767 that does LAS-HNL 2-3 times a week on charter to Vacations Hawaii.

Are there a lot of gamblers in Maui or is it more a case of people originally from Maui who moved to Vegas and are returning home to visit family/property?
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5

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RWA380
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:46 am

MSPNWA wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.


Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.

And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.


I lived in Hawaii for years, I was the lead agent at the largest locally owned travel company in the state of Hawaii. We had 13 offices over 4 Islands & were consistently the largest generator of revenue for both Aloha & Hawaiian Airlines for Hawaii POS. Both carriers served Las Vegas & we booked our own packages with bulk rates provided to us by the Carriers & Hotels like the California, Fremont & many of the downtown hotels. This is something I got a good understanding of, because I lived it & I know it hasn't changed.

Our leisure offices had hundreds of calls a day each, number one query "Hey, how much your cheapest Vegas package Air/Hotel, no car?".
Second most was "Hey, How much your cheapest fly/drive to neighbor Island?", We generated 25 Million of dollars a year in revenue & 95% or better was Hawaii POS. That was 20 years ago.

Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand, I had many clients that went 2-3 times a year, some of my HGEA/IBEW groups were 60 passengers or better, they'd all give equal amounts each pay-day & once the fund hit enough, they ALL went to Vegas. They don't care about the rooms so much, If it's clean, they can sleep, freshen up & keep their stuff & that is more than adequate for most locals.

Even Hawaiians that want to splurge, will book an upgraded suite downtown Vegas than on the strip at the big spendy Bellagios & that type. They are a more bang for your buck mindset & there is almost nothing I have heard of 4 people in a room with 2 queen beds, big groups being allowed an entire floor, even within one property, the locals are not going to be as bothered by ice machines, stairways or location to the parking lot if it saves off of the room rates.

This is now what is really happening, HA is taking the OGG-KOA/ITO bound traffic off the 2:30am HNL flight over the Holidays & going forward (when this is coming to fruition) allowing HA to carry many more Oahu residents & those going to LIH, remember traditionally all airlines offer steep discounts to Hawaii residents at the holidays to leave on flights to the mainland on dates like Dec19-26 leaving Hawaii & returning after Jan 3rd, it prevents full planes of tourists coming for the holidays & the airlines flying empty planes back. They are called Mele fares & we paid $350 r/t on UA HNL-SFO-PDX-SFO-HNL.

There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the TV ad catch phrase was, "I'm Di Di Ai Oh & away you go", I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12AM, HP was better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
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jetwet1
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:03 am

MSPNWA wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.


Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.

And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.


You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.

RWA380 wrote:

Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.

And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.




Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.

[/quote]

Exactly, the early flight is there just so the Hawaiians can get to work in the morning, it's not there for the Vegas locals to get to Hawaii.

RWA380 wrote:

There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the "Di Di Ay Oh & away we go" with Di Di Ay Ohg, I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12 midnight, better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.


Wow, I haven't heard Di Di Ay Ohg in a long time lol, the Omni flights are fun and in many ways better than the mainline carriers, though HA now having flat beds sets it apart.

I thought the 747 went PHX-HNL-KIX ??????? I could well be wrong, I wasn't involved with the Hawaii market back then.
 
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RWA380
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:22 am

jetwet1 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.


Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.

And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.


You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.

RWA380 wrote:

Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.

And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.




Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.



Exactly, the early flight is there just so the Hawaiians can get to work in the morning, it's not there for the Vegas locals to get to Hawaii.

RWA380 wrote:

There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the "Di Di Ay Oh & away we go" with Di Di Ay Ohg, I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12 midnight, better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.


Wow, I haven't heard Di Di Ay Ohg in a long time lol, the Omni flights are fun and in many ways better than the mainline carriers, though HA now having flat beds sets it apart.

I thought the 747 went PHX-HNL-KIX ??????? I could well be wrong, I wasn't involved with the Hawaii market back then.[/quote]

I kind of put that in there so those in the know, will know I'm for real, thanks for the keen catch. It took me half a year to get in tune with the Hawaiian local mindset on how to vacation & it's a warriors path! I know party until you crash, get up, shower & repeat.

I also never had as much fun in my life than when I joined my clients from IBEW at Wavecrest in Molokai & spent two days partying with 60 locals & this pale white haole man & my partner. In ten minutes we were Ohana for life & they are the most awesome bunch of people I know. Several of almost every Polynesian descendancy, Tongan, Samoan, Hawaiian, Tahitian, Fijian & two haoles.

We had Aunty's, Uncles, Bothers, Sisters, Parents, tons of keikis & everyone was relaxed & so incredibly hospitable. I ate things I never heard of, tentacles, suction cups, fish, shellfish, I was full, them more desserts & drinks, dinner outside for 6 hours, by the time we got upstairs we were both just hammered & the next, late morning I went out on the patio with my shirt off & got a couple cat calls from some ladies, which I always blow off, but it was the same group inviting us down, I went back to bed & slept until noon.

Which is why I go to Hawaii so much, we have homes to stay in at Pearl City on Oahu & time shares on Maui, Kauai & Kona. I'm working on six weeks over election time next year, it was perfect in 2016, it was great to turn it off & enjoy something a million times more pleasent, Hawaii!

HP flew their 747 only to Hawaii at first (pending NGO approval, the 747 flew PHX-HNL-LAS-PHX, then it was routed PHX-HNL-NGO-HNL-PHX. HP never had more than about a 10$ LF on the overwater legs to Japan, some flights had under 20 people. The route hemorrhaged cash, so HP found out why no one else even JL didn't want the route, the only reason HP got NGO, HP was denied TYO & KIX applications.
Eventually the 747's were relegated to LAS/PHX-JFK until the leases ended & they were returned. I flew all three of them, two had the KLM logos on the ovens in the gallet still.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
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jetwet1
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:14 am

NGO duh, yeah that's the one.

As you point out, this will make life easier for the OGG people, not having to connect in HNL, LAX or SFO.

I do have to wonder how UA will react, it sounds strange I know, but we get a lot of UA first class connecting through to Vegas, with the direct flight I wonder if they will take a hit

And yes, the Hawaiian people are wonderful, once they get to know you.
 
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aeromoe
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:15 am

shibal wrote:
aeromoe wrote:
worldtraveler2 wrote:
The airline will inaugurate its newest narrow-body Airbus A321neo on the route.


How do we know it will be inaugurated with Hawaiian's newest A321neo?



The press release by Hawaiian Airlines mentions the A321neo to be inaugurated with the route.


I was just asking how you know it will be inaugurated with Hawaiian's newest A321neo, as opposed to any other A321neo in the Hawaiian Air fleet.
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Blueknows
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:44 am

Wondering if B6 will do the ground handling and check in? There has been some Internal news about B6 heading to Hawaii soon, and could involve HA
 
Planes4you
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:57 pm

questions wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
If only they flew to DFW


Not relevant to this thread.


Should someone report the poster to the authorities?


Nah the UN sounds better
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:10 pm

Ishrion wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Personally, I'd have far more issue with the arrival time than the departure.
I usually try take the first flight of the day whenever I'm going anywhere leisure, so 6:30am departure is par for me.

But a 4:30am arrival time?
....you're tired as hell, but aren't guaranteed to be able to check into your hotel for 9.5hrs? Screw that!


On AA's HND slot application, they applied for LAX-HND with a departure time of about 12:30 a.m. and arrival of 4:40 a.m... that'll be fun for those in Y.


Actually makes sense...that feeds into the JL network at HND.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:52 pm

Secondarily now---I wonder if HA can build up a secondary hub at OGG now that it can fly to other destinations on the West Coast, and potentially also in the South Pacific, using the A321neo on destinations that previously required a wide-body. (The issue, of course, would be the location of suitable alternatives.)
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:30 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Secondarily now---I wonder if HA can build up a secondary hub at OGG now that it can fly to other destinations on the West Coast, and potentially also in the South Pacific, using the A321neo on destinations that previously required a wide-body. (The issue, of course, would be the location of suitable alternatives.)

To what benefit?

Why would a small (and arguably niche) airline need a secondary hub, less than 90nm away from its primary hub?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Thunderbolt500
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:37 am

Must be cramped with a narrow body
 
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Laulau
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:45 am

For everyone wondering about the departure times in and out of Vegas. Aircraft performance limitations with the 321NEO are driving the earlier departure times. Payload restrictions increase as the day gets warmer..... Flight has a tight 2 hour turn to accomplish this. That doesn't mean that it will be adequate once the winter headwinds start up again and required ETOPS fuel requirements increase.
 
crownvic
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:46 am

questions wrote:
This is amazing. Combined with HA’s other flights I would have never guessed all the route potential between HI and LAS.


Especially considering the insane fares they charge ex-LAS.
 
ha763
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:26 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Blueknows wrote:
Wondering if B6 will do the ground handling and check in? There has been some Internal news about B6 heading to Hawaii soon, and could involve HA


Off-topic, but who handles the present HA LAS-HNL flights?


Above wing is HA employees and below wing is contracted out.
 
mrpippy
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:25 am

Laulau wrote:
For everyone wondering about the departure times in and out of Vegas. Aircraft performance limitations with the 321NEO are driving the earlier departure times. Payload restrictions increase as the day gets warmer..... Flight has a tight 2 hour turn to accomplish this. That doesn't mean that it will be adequate once the winter headwinds start up again and required ETOPS fuel requirements increase.


Interesting to hear that. AA is going to start using the A321neo for PHX-HNL/OGG/KOA in October, it’s slightly farther than LAS and they’ll all be normal-timed daytime flights leaving PHX. PHX is about 1000ft lower than LAS though, maybe that makes the difference. We’ll see if those flights start needing fuel stops next summer or when the headwinds get bad.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:25 am

RWA380 wrote:
I lived in Hawaii for years, I was the lead agent at the largest locally owned travel company in the state of Hawaii. We had 13 offices over 4 Islands & were consistently the largest generator of revenue for both Aloha & Hawaiian Airlines for Hawaii POS. Both carriers served Las Vegas & we booked our own packages with bulk rates provided to us by the Carriers & Hotels like the California, Fremont & many of the downtown hotels. This is something I got a good understanding of, because I lived it & I know it hasn't changed.

Our leisure offices had hundreds of calls a day each, number one query "Hey, how much your cheapest Vegas package Air/Hotel, no car?".
Second most was "Hey, How much your cheapest fly/drive to neighbor Island?", We generated 25 Million of dollars a year in revenue & 95% or better was Hawaii POS. That was 20 years ago.

Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand, I had many clients that went 2-3 times a year, some of my HGEA/IBEW groups were 60 passengers or better, they'd all give equal amounts each pay-day & once the fund hit enough, they ALL went to Vegas. They don't care about the rooms so much, If it's clean, they can sleep, freshen up & keep their stuff & that is more than adequate for most locals.

Even Hawaiians that want to splurge, will book an upgraded suite downtown Vegas than on the strip at the big spendy Bellagios & that type. They are a more bang for your buck mindset & there is almost nothing I have heard of 4 people in a room with 2 queen beds, big groups being allowed an entire floor, even within one property, the locals are not going to be as bothered by ice machines, stairways or location to the parking lot if it saves off of the room rates.

This is now what is really happening, HA is taking the OGG-KOA/ITO bound traffic off the 2:30am HNL flight over the Holidays & going forward (when this is coming to fruition) allowing HA to carry many more Oahu residents & those going to LIH, remember traditionally all airlines offer steep discounts to Hawaii residents at the holidays to leave on flights to the mainland on dates like Dec19-26 leaving Hawaii & returning after Jan 3rd, it prevents full planes of tourists coming for the holidays & the airlines flying empty planes back. They are called Mele fares & we paid $350 r/t on UA HNL-SFO-PDX-SFO-HNL.

There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the TV ad catch phrase was, "I'm Di Di Ai Oh & away you go", I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12AM, HP was better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.


I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.

The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.

jetwet1 wrote:
You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.

Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.


No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.

If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5462
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:22 am

MSPNWA wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
I lived in Hawaii for years, I was the lead agent at the largest locally owned travel company in the state of Hawaii. We had 13 offices over 4 Islands & were consistently the largest generator of revenue for both Aloha & Hawaiian Airlines for Hawaii POS. Both carriers served Las Vegas & we booked our own packages with bulk rates provided to us by the Carriers & Hotels like the California, Fremont & many of the downtown hotels. This is something I got a good understanding of, because I lived it & I know it hasn't changed.

Our leisure offices had hundreds of calls a day each, number one query "Hey, how much your cheapest Vegas package Air/Hotel, no car?".
Second most was "Hey, How much your cheapest fly/drive to neighbor Island?", We generated 25 Million of dollars a year in revenue & 95% or better was Hawaii POS. That was 20 years ago.

Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand, I had many clients that went 2-3 times a year, some of my HGEA/IBEW groups were 60 passengers or better, they'd all give equal amounts each pay-day & once the fund hit enough, they ALL went to Vegas. They don't care about the rooms so much, If it's clean, they can sleep, freshen up & keep their stuff & that is more than adequate for most locals.

Even Hawaiians that want to splurge, will book an upgraded suite downtown Vegas than on the strip at the big spendy Bellagios & that type. They are a more bang for your buck mindset & there is almost nothing I have heard of 4 people in a room with 2 queen beds, big groups being allowed an entire floor, even within one property, the locals are not going to be as bothered by ice machines, stairways or location to the parking lot if it saves off of the room rates.

This is now what is really happening, HA is taking the OGG-KOA/ITO bound traffic off the 2:30am HNL flight over the Holidays & going forward (when this is coming to fruition) allowing HA to carry many more Oahu residents & those going to LIH, remember traditionally all airlines offer steep discounts to Hawaii residents at the holidays to leave on flights to the mainland on dates like Dec19-26 leaving Hawaii & returning after Jan 3rd, it prevents full planes of tourists coming for the holidays & the airlines flying empty planes back. They are called Mele fares & we paid $350 r/t on UA HNL-SFO-PDX-SFO-HNL.

There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the TV ad catch phrase was, "I'm Di Di Ai Oh & away you go", I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12AM, HP was better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.


I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.

The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.

jetwet1 wrote:
You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.

Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.


No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.

If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.


Here read this please before you embarrass yourself further, this is why I hate sharing knowledge here, there is always one person just like you - https://www.quora.com/Where-do-people-f ... r-vacation
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
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aloha73g
Posts: 1935
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:39 am

MSPNWA wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
I lived in Hawaii for years, I was the lead agent at the largest locally owned travel company in the state of Hawaii. We had 13 offices over 4 Islands & were consistently the largest generator of revenue for both Aloha & Hawaiian Airlines for Hawaii POS. Both carriers served Las Vegas & we booked our own packages with bulk rates provided to us by the Carriers & Hotels like the California, Fremont & many of the downtown hotels. This is something I got a good understanding of, because I lived it & I know it hasn't changed.

Our leisure offices had hundreds of calls a day each, number one query "Hey, how much your cheapest Vegas package Air/Hotel, no car?".
Second most was "Hey, How much your cheapest fly/drive to neighbor Island?", We generated 25 Million of dollars a year in revenue & 95% or better was Hawaii POS. That was 20 years ago.

Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand, I had many clients that went 2-3 times a year, some of my HGEA/IBEW groups were 60 passengers or better, they'd all give equal amounts each pay-day & once the fund hit enough, they ALL went to Vegas. They don't care about the rooms so much, If it's clean, they can sleep, freshen up & keep their stuff & that is more than adequate for most locals.

Even Hawaiians that want to splurge, will book an upgraded suite downtown Vegas than on the strip at the big spendy Bellagios & that type. They are a more bang for your buck mindset & there is almost nothing I have heard of 4 people in a room with 2 queen beds, big groups being allowed an entire floor, even within one property, the locals are not going to be as bothered by ice machines, stairways or location to the parking lot if it saves off of the room rates.

This is now what is really happening, HA is taking the OGG-KOA/ITO bound traffic off the 2:30am HNL flight over the Holidays & going forward (when this is coming to fruition) allowing HA to carry many more Oahu residents & those going to LIH, remember traditionally all airlines offer steep discounts to Hawaii residents at the holidays to leave on flights to the mainland on dates like Dec19-26 leaving Hawaii & returning after Jan 3rd, it prevents full planes of tourists coming for the holidays & the airlines flying empty planes back. They are called Mele fares & we paid $350 r/t on UA HNL-SFO-PDX-SFO-HNL.

There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the TV ad catch phrase was, "I'm Di Di Ai Oh & away you go", I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12AM, HP was better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.


I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.

The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.

jetwet1 wrote:
You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.

Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.


No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.

If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.


You’re vastly underestimating how much people from Hawai‘i love Las Vegas. A few points:

1. People from Hawai‘i are not an “ethnic group” that is necessarily visible to the naked eye. I was born and raised in Hawai‘i and you wouldn’t know that unless I wanted you to.

2. Most people from Hawai‘i stay at Downtown Las Vegas hotels ... not on the strip. There are numerous hotels there that exclusively cater to the Hawai‘i market. Stop by Golden Nugget, California, Fremont, etc next time you’re in Vegas and you’ll see what I mean.

3. I work in an office with about 10 people. I hate Vegas, but between the other 9 people they go to Vegas in excess of 20 times per year. One guy goes SIX TIMES every year.... New Years, Super Bowl, Easter, July 4th, Labor Day, Black Friday ... EVERY YEAR. Maui point of sale can easily support a 3-4x weekly flight.

4. Hawaiian flew this route previously but the 767 wasn’t ideal and they needed them for other markets, so they know what the market is. When they announced the A321 OGG-LAS was always on the list for new routes along with other old 767 routes from OGG (PDX, SAN, etc).

5. HA will likely time OGG-KOA/LIH/ITO interisland flights to feed this. That will take some strain off HNL (which is bursting) and open up more seats for the much larger HNL market.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:52 am

RWA380 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
I lived in Hawaii for years, I was the lead agent at the largest locally owned travel company in the state of Hawaii. We had 13 offices over 4 Islands & were consistently the largest generator of revenue for both Aloha & Hawaiian Airlines for Hawaii POS. Both carriers served Las Vegas & we booked our own packages with bulk rates provided to us by the Carriers & Hotels like the California, Fremont & many of the downtown hotels. This is something I got a good understanding of, because I lived it & I know it hasn't changed.

Our leisure offices had hundreds of calls a day each, number one query "Hey, how much your cheapest Vegas package Air/Hotel, no car?".
Second most was "Hey, How much your cheapest fly/drive to neighbor Island?", We generated 25 Million of dollars a year in revenue & 95% or better was Hawaii POS. That was 20 years ago.

Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand, I had many clients that went 2-3 times a year, some of my HGEA/IBEW groups were 60 passengers or better, they'd all give equal amounts each pay-day & once the fund hit enough, they ALL went to Vegas. They don't care about the rooms so much, If it's clean, they can sleep, freshen up & keep their stuff & that is more than adequate for most locals.

Even Hawaiians that want to splurge, will book an upgraded suite downtown Vegas than on the strip at the big spendy Bellagios & that type. They are a more bang for your buck mindset & there is almost nothing I have heard of 4 people in a room with 2 queen beds, big groups being allowed an entire floor, even within one property, the locals are not going to be as bothered by ice machines, stairways or location to the parking lot if it saves off of the room rates.

This is now what is really happening, HA is taking the OGG-KOA/ITO bound traffic off the 2:30am HNL flight over the Holidays & going forward (when this is coming to fruition) allowing HA to carry many more Oahu residents & those going to LIH, remember traditionally all airlines offer steep discounts to Hawaii residents at the holidays to leave on flights to the mainland on dates like Dec19-26 leaving Hawaii & returning after Jan 3rd, it prevents full planes of tourists coming for the holidays & the airlines flying empty planes back. They are called Mele fares & we paid $350 r/t on UA HNL-SFO-PDX-SFO-HNL.

There also has been Omni International for decades upon decades, I think that was the TV ad catch phrase was, "I'm Di Di Ai Oh & away you go", I also remember flying upstairs on the 747's to/from Las Vegas & Honolulu non-stop on America West airlines & arrival in Vegas was 12AM, HP was better timed for Vegas residents going to Hawaii, but that was HP's role from the onset when they bought the three 747's.


I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.

The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.

jetwet1 wrote:
You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.

Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.


No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.

If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.


Here read this please before you embarrass yourself further, this is why I hate sharing knowledge here, there is always one person just like you - https://www.quora.com/Where-do-people-f ... r-vacation


I don't know one way or another, and I hope these new flights are successful, but I think MSPNWA's point is that the population on Maui is about 15% of the population on Oahu. That, coupled with the fact that HNL benefits from a wide range of connections from all of the other islands, makes HNL a natural. Still, it seems like a daily flight to LAS may be difficult to fill from OGG without all the connecting traffic and a MUCH smaller local population. Again, hope it works, but based solely on the numbers, I can see where one would be skeptical. Good for HA for trying and I hope it works.
 
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aloha73g
Posts: 1935
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:23 am

ASFlyer wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:

I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.

The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.



No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.

If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.


Here read this please before you embarrass yourself further, this is why I hate sharing knowledge here, there is always one person just like you - https://www.quora.com/Where-do-people-f ... r-vacation


I don't know one way or another, and I hope these new flights are successful, but I think MSPNWA's point is that the population on Maui is about 15% of the population on Oahu. That, coupled with the fact that HNL benefits from a wide range of connections from all of the other islands, makes HNL a natural. Still, it seems like a daily flight to LAS may be difficult to fill from OGG without all the connecting traffic and a MUCH smaller local population. Again, hope it works, but based solely on the numbers, I can see where one would be skeptical. Good for HA for trying and I hope it works.


OGG-LAS will be 4x weekly. Not daily. 4 x 189 = 756 seats each week

HNL-LAS is 18x weekly on HA. 18 x 278 = 5,004 seats each week.

The ratio of seats to population for O‘ahu and Maui are nearly identical.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5462
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 am

ASFlyer wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:

I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.

The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.



No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.

If this were truly catered to locals, why isn't this a westbound redeye, like HNL? That would make a lot more sense than the current times. The reason why the HNL redeye can work is because it has over a million people to draw from on the Hawaii side, and it's also an attractive alternative for those on the LAS side. It's also very efficient with aircraft utilization. Geographically it's one of the few cities where a westbound redeye can work. Combine that with demand, and it's not hard to see why it exists.


Here read this please before you embarrass yourself further, this is why I hate sharing knowledge here, there is always one person just like you - https://www.quora.com/Where-do-people-f ... r-vacation


I don't know one way or another, and I hope these new flights are successful, but I think MSPNWA's point is that the population on Maui is about 15% of the population on Oahu. That, coupled with the fact that HNL benefits from a wide range of connections from all of the other islands, makes HNL a natural. Still, it seems like a daily flight to LAS may be difficult to fill from OGG without all the connecting traffic and a MUCH smaller local population. Again, hope it works, but based solely on the numbers, I can see where one would be skeptical. Good for HA for trying and I hope it works.


Both myself & Aloha73g have given a fully accurate picture of the true market, it's not something either of us invented, but both of us obviously know. In addition there are at least two other Hawaii based members who have chimed in stating the same information.

If MSPNWA wishes to ignore, several experts in this field, she or he may, but not at the expense of my words. It took me nearly six months to get used to the amount of Vegas packages I was selling after moving to Hawaii. Even in the same line of work in Portland, I sold far less Vegas. After my six months of leisure, I went & helmed the Corporate travel office on Fort Street Mall downtown Honolulu & was booking B of H execs & Straub Clinic doctors to their clinics in Guam & Saipan. I stayed for years & was well aware of how Vegas sales financed our company growth including TransHawaiian we owned.

As was stated, the HNL flight could likely fill itself, but there will always be Inter Island connections, having this OGG flight allows overflowing, if HA needs to bump any HNL bound passengers at 2:30am It's not any other market in the USA, aloha73g is right, in my years there, everyone went at least once a year, many several times a year. The union guys get lots of time off & as the article says, gambling is not legal in Hawaii & high stakes cock fights happen & poker rooms in downtown/chinatown but you got to be connected, surprisingly Hawaiians love to spend time in Vegas & unless you go downtown, you'd never see it.
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BeachBoy
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:05 am

Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:31 am

Laulau wrote:
For everyone wondering about the departure times in and out of Vegas. Aircraft performance limitations with the 321NEO are driving the earlier departure times. Payload restrictions increase as the day gets warmer..... Flight has a tight 2 hour turn to accomplish this. That doesn't mean that it will be adequate once the winter headwinds start up again and required ETOPS fuel requirements increase.


Not true.

The flight times are based on gate utilization. HA leases only one gate at LAS--D35.

The flight times for this flight allows it to arrive after flight 17 departs (1:50 am) and before flight 8 arrives (7:25 am).

I have my doubts the westbound flight will be successful because of the odd departure time (6:30 am).
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5462
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:55 am

aloha73g wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Here read this please before you embarrass yourself further, this is why I hate sharing knowledge here, there is always one person just like you - https://www.quora.com/Where-do-people-f ... r-vacation


I don't know one way or another, and I hope these new flights are successful, but I think MSPNWA's point is that the population on Maui is about 15% of the population on Oahu. That, coupled with the fact that HNL benefits from a wide range of connections from all of the other islands, makes HNL a natural. Still, it seems like a daily flight to LAS may be difficult to fill from OGG without all the connecting traffic and a MUCH smaller local population. Again, hope it works, but based solely on the numbers, I can see where one would be skeptical. Good for HA for trying and I hope it works.


OGG-LAS will be 4x weekly. Not daily. 4 x 189 = 756 seats each week

HNL-LAS is 18x weekly on HA. 18 x 278 = 5,004 seats each week.

The ratio of seats to population for O‘ahu and Maui are nearly identical.

-Aloha!


It's as if people don't think HA knows their home turf & knows the air markets into & out of the state. I believe this may have been one of the routes that had been given as a possible future route when they announced their purchase of these awesome A-321neo's that they are now flying.

It was explained already, but I think it bears repeating that Vegas is about the operational limit of this aircraft when fully loaded & considering the ETOPS 180 fuel requirements with the winter headwinds additional fuel.

The 6:30 am departure will allow operations even on the hottest Las Vegas nights, it allows a fully loaded aircraft to take off at very hot destination by leaving at the peak coolest time, especially during the middle of the summer with little or no penalty to HA.

Cargo will be leis & fresh cut flowers & US Agriculture labeled Hawaiian Fresh Pineapple for buffets across Las Vegas on the outbound from OGG, It also allows an AM arrival of the Honolulu paper into LAS, as it's printed on Maui.

This plane only has a 2 hour turn time & is excellent aircraft utilization on behalf of HA & the locals like these odd times to maximize vacation time, as was stated. it allows the aircraft once in Maui to do another west coast turn & arrive back into Maui by the next morning. It also gives HA an option of an overflow flight should HNL be oversold & people get bumped. Well planned by HA.

Buy it or not, you have several experts that know the market intimately & have taken their time & energy to inform you of the truth & you refuse to accept it. Now it's just your speculation & conjecture or the multiple people in this thread that have agreed & have backed up everything I said & aloha73g, there were two other Hawaii based member chiming in too. Including 77H & AirPortugal310.

Sorry it doesn't make sense, I agree with that, it's unlike any other tourist market I know & I do know it, lots of my longtime friends still live there still book travel & nothing has changed, except the market is even more thirsty now than it was. It is insane how the Hawaiians are passionate about their Vegas trips & multiple times per year, in addition to estimating 1/8 of the population goes to Vegas yearly, I think that is a conservative estimate at best, Id venture to say up to 1/3 of Hawaiian go regularly to Vegas, I did living there (partly my job to stay fresh with the hotels, but I NEVER had a bad room staying downtown) the crowd was much more like home in Hawaii & I had a much better, walkable time, with looser slots & yards of alcohol.

HA can easily fill the 18x weekly from HNL, with Oahu & Kauai residents, then easily ITO/KOA/OGG markets. They don't call it the Ninth Island for nothing guys. None of what was said is even a little exaggerated. I bet it goes daily in less than one year as more 321's arrive in the HAL fleet.
Last edited by RWA380 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:20 am, edited 4 times in total.
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77H
Posts: 1437
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Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:03 am

MSPNWA wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
We booked so much California Hotel, you are totally correct it's more Hawaiians there than in Waikiki. Indeed this flight caters to the Hawaiian outbound market & an excellent add given WN''s impending move into the market.


Woah, let's slow down here. Maui only has roughly 150,000 residents. It's going to take a lot more than Maui point of sale to support this flight.

And besides, do you really think an arrival/departure a couple hours later is going to kill the Hawaii vacationers? No way. It's a strange schedule to say the least.


To be fair the population of Maui is now closer to 170K. Beyond that, residents of the Big Island can and will use this flight as an alternative to connecting in HNL.

As others have said, LAS is an extremely popular destination for locals. I’d argue there is probably more demand from the Hawaii PoS than LAS PoS. This seems like a natural add for HA now that they have a plane more right sized for the market.

Have some faith. HA is not known for dart board network planning. They are generally very conservative adding to their route network. If not as successful as anticipated they can always reduce frequency.
 
77H
Posts: 1437
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:06 am

gaystudpilot wrote:
seat1a wrote:
questions wrote:

Should someone report the poster to the authorities?


Paging atcsundevil! LOL, there's some good humor on here.


Airliners Andy joins Permit Patty and BBQ Becky in a citizens arrest!


This post is evidence of why there needs to be a “Like” button on A.Net. Would certainly cut down on add-on posts if members could simply like a post.

77H
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2857
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: HA to launch OGG-LAS

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:09 pm

MSPNWA wrote:

I don't care where you live or what you did. In fact I think that's the problem. You have anecdotal experiences in play from a different market long ago. I have anecdotal thoughts too. I've been to Vegas many times. I've seen many ethnic groups. Hawaiian is one I don't remember seeing. But does that prove anything? No.

The point of sale powerhouse isn't going to be an island with 150,000 residents. The numbers don't lie. To put this in perspective, the LAS metro has about 15 times the population of Maui, and Maui is a very popular tourist destination in its own right (in fact, nearly as popular as Oahu from the US West). Do you honestly think this flight is going to be filled with gamblers with that shear numbers disadvantage? How about another factoid. The yearly seats for this flight will be about 40K, over a quarter of Maui's population. Let's be modest and say this flight is 50/50 from either end. Seem plausible that over 1/8th of Maui is going to Vegas annually, and all the while not taking the dozens of other flight options and spreading out their demand evenly throughout the year? It just doesn't add up.


I am going to word this very carefully as our social media policy is pretty strict on these subjects.

The point of sale powerhouse behind this flight will be OGG and the surrounding islands, yes there will be some bookings from Vegas for sure, but the vast majority will be from Hawaii.

Yes they will be filled with gamblers, and also people visiting family that have moved here from the islands. They will also be coming out to the various Hawaiian festivals we hold each year.

Our average guest visits our properties more than 4 times a year (that's me being vague) .

jetwet1 wrote:
You underestimate the love of the 9th island to the people of Hawaii.

Hawaiian has offered a daily 1:30-2:30 am departure from Las Vegas (depending on time of year) to Honolulu arriving 6-6:30 am for decades, this is the only westbound redeye to Hawaii from the Mainland & purely successful because of the local demand.


No, the numbers say you're vastly overestimating the amount of local Maui traffic. I'm just going by what the numbers tell me. I don't have skin in the game to care about.

[/quote]

HA knows the numbers, we know the numbers, you may not, but that's not your job, as you say, you have no skin in the game. I happen to know the number of people from Maui that visit our resorts every year and I am very comfortable saying that the vast majority of the flight will be sold from the Hawaii side, it may end up being paid for from the Vegas side, but hey I am happy to do that at times....Read into that.

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