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par13del
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:27 pm

So why exactly don't more union members resign or retire and move on, the good ones will find jobs elsewhere and be done with all the stress involved, at times quality of life is not always about the money. Working conditions count for a lot and there is only so much your co-corkers can do to make the environment palatable.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:34 pm

Where are they going to find a job making $55 an hour?
 
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par13del
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:55 am

...with globalization...anywhere.
How about with the FAA inspecting WN, or heaven forbid other airlines in the USA or someone who needs qualified mechanics?
I do not believe that you are saying that they can only work at AA, they must like the stress.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:03 am

par13del wrote:
...with globalization...anywhere.
How about with the FAA inspecting WN, or heaven forbid other airlines in the USA or someone who needs qualified mechanics?
I do not believe that you are saying that they can only work at AA, they must like the stress.


He’s saying a topped out employee can’t leave their airline and make topped out money at another airline. They’d have to take a major pay cut by starting at the bottom of the pay scale.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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par13del
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:09 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
He’s saying a topped out employee can’t leave their airline and make topped out money at another airline. They’d have to take a major pay cut by starting at the bottom of the pay scale.

I know, but that goes back to my quality of life issue, contract ended years ago and still this back and forth. If the whole issue is just the union and management that is one thing, but based on the slow downs and information coming out, I am shocked more workers don't just walk away. If they can't walk away then how does the complaining help if their union cannot get something done in multiple years?
I admit to being a militant, but in an organized labor force someone has to be asleep at the wheel if it takes this long to get a contract, and /i said the same about the pilots from the US days.
 
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chepos
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:34 am

par13del wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
He’s saying a topped out employee can’t leave their airline and make topped out money at another airline. They’d have to take a major pay cut by starting at the bottom of the pay scale.

I know, but that goes back to my quality of life issue, contract ended years ago and still this back and forth. If the whole issue is just the union and management that is one thing, but based on the slow downs and information coming out, I am shocked more workers don't just walk away. If they can't walk away then how does the complaining help if their union cannot get something done in multiple years?
I admit to being a militant, but in an organized labor force someone has to be asleep at the wheel if it takes this long to get a contract, and /i said the same about the pilots from the US days.


They reached a deal and they are in the process of voting it. There was a thread somewhere around here. Alas it did not have as much back and forth as this thread. . Not sure why this one from 6 months ago was resuscitated.


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strfyr51
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:14 am

American has more problems that just this contract. Their Mechanics can't even come together for what UNION they want to represent them, American was TWU and US Air was IAM. USAir tried to screw over the America West mechanics and they never even resolved those issues before merging with American's mechanics SO? The fault is in their making. That they can't get any traction? Isn't any wonder..
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:15 am

par13del wrote:
Silver1SWA wrote:
He’s saying a topped out employee can’t leave their airline and make topped out money at another airline. They’d have to take a major pay cut by starting at the bottom of the pay scale.

I know, but that goes back to my quality of life issue, contract ended years ago and still this back and forth. If the whole issue is just the union and management that is one thing, but based on the slow downs and information coming out, I am shocked more workers don't just walk away.


What makes you so sure they have not?

AA have been hiring fairly consistently for that job over the last two years. In the year looking back from today, they have taken on 60-ish A&Ps at LAX alone. There has indeed been a goodly amount of turnover in markets where that option exists.


Boof02671 wrote:
Where are they going to find a job making $55 an hour?


Most can, but as 1SWA says, it will be a long time before they see a decent wage again. I have personally found it easier to simply leave the industry altogether. But even then, it will likely be the end of 2021 before I am out all the way. Here is hoping for sooner though!

Silver1SWA wrote:
par13del wrote:
...with globalization...anywhere.
How about with the FAA inspecting WN, or heaven forbid other airlines in the USA or someone who needs qualified mechanics?
I do not believe that you are saying that they can only work at AA, they must like the stress.


He’s saying a topped out employee can’t leave their airline and make topped out money at another airline. They’d have to take a major pay cut by starting at the bottom of the pay scale.


Correct. While I would agree that there is more than just money, it is not as though we go to work for our health. It is the biggest part of what matters, ceteris paribus.

Also, even what you say is contingent on being in a place like LA or NYC, WAS, etc, where there are a lot of options. Some guy working in CLT were AA is a big gorilla and most of the other outfits are hired up is not going to have a lot of options.

Making AA a better place to work at absolutely should be a priority.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:02 pm

par13del wrote:
...with globalization...anywhere.
How about with the FAA inspecting WN, or heaven forbid other airlines in the USA or someone who needs qualified mechanics?
I do not believe that you are saying that they can only work at AA, they must like the stress.

Doesn’t work that way. You start at the bottom with pay, benefits, vacation etc
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:03 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
American has more problems that just this contract. Their Mechanics can't even come together for what UNION they want to represent them, American was TWU and US Air was IAM. USAir tried to screw over the America West mechanics and they never even resolved those issues before merging with American's mechanics SO? The fault is in their making. That they can't get any traction? Isn't any wonder..

Not true at all the former HP mechanics saw huge increase in pay, benefits, etc. You are thinking about the pilots, the US and HP mechanics reached a joint contract in 2008.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:06 pm

Unions and the Seniority system trap people in a job for life at some point. Most unions have high turnover in the 1-5 year range as folks realize they would have to work another 20 years to get a better shift, or duties. You also have almost no development/movement even within your trade and company in a union . They are a huge net negative for the vast majority of working Americans and there is a reason most decline to be in a union when given the opportunity.


BTW, this TA took so long because the IAM & TWU themselves could not agree on almost anything. This was a complicated 3 way negotiation with both Unions not willing to compromise as proven out in the still separate TA.
Last edited by UpNAWAy on Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:07 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Unions and the Seniority system trap people in a job for life at some point. Most unions have high turnover in the 1-5 year range as folks realize they would have to work another 20 years to get a better shift, or duties. You also have almost no development/movement even within your trade and company in a union . They are a huge net negative for the vast majority of working Americans and there is a reason most decline to be in a union when given the opportunity.

And yet the US airline industry is one of the highest percentage of unionized workforce.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:11 pm

Yes it is, almost exclusively due to historical reasons. If this was a brand new industry its professional ranks would absolutely not be unionized nor would they seek it.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:51 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Yes it is, almost exclusively due to historical reasons. If this was a brand new industry its professional ranks would absolutely not be unionized nor would they seek it.

Then explain how the new carriers are unionizing also?
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:06 pm

Because of the industry history. Certainly not because it is needed or even helpful.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:26 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
American has more problems that just this contract. Their Mechanics can't even come together for what UNION they want to represent them,


They've never had a chance to decide. It was decided FOR them without a vote post-merger.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1804
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:58 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Yes it is, almost exclusively due to historical reasons. If this was a brand new industry its professional ranks would absolutely not be unionized nor would they seek it.

Then explain how the new carriers are unionizing also?

Because "new carriers" are "new companies in an historical industry", as opposed to "new companies in a brand new industry".
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2157
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA gets permanent injunction against mechanics union

Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:40 am

All three JCBAs have passed

http://www.twu-iam.org/wp-content/uploa ... 2620-1.pdf

Lawsuit goes away

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