9Patch
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:07 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
9Patch wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

Irrelevant....... the issues are because they picked the 787.

They could have picked GE engines for their 787s.


But they couldn't have known these problems at the time they bought those aircraft. At that moment, the engines they picked were supposed to be safe. Only later it became clear there were issues with those engines, but by that time they already had them.

Of course they could have picked GE engines, but at the time there was no reason to. They could have picked another plane instead of the 787, but at the time there was no reason to. They picked what looked like a good choice, only later it turned out to be a bad choice.


It's not Boeing's fault RR f***** up the engine.
It's not Boeing's fault Norwegian chose RR engines.
 
9Patch
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:10 am

LAXLHR wrote:
runway23 wrote:
Convenient way to hide (or announce) that the 737Max will never fly again for Norwegian ?


Yup. I just passed 4 of their max's parked next to a hanger at OSL. Was thinking those are never getting back into the sky!

you was thinking wrong...
 
PHLCVGAMTK
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:33 am

Terrible shame. I enjoyed flying to Ireland for USD $300 round-trip. The business model had some obvious flaws, like lack of onward connections on either side, but where it worked despite that, it worked well.

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
wexfordflyer wrote:
I've seen they are cancelling all transatlantic routes from Ireland. Are there others they are also cancelling?

Press release RE Irish Routes:
https://media.uk.norwegian.com/pressrel ... 19-2905744


where else did they offer Max TA from? Edinburgh was already cancelled!


SWF-BGO was still on the schedule, at least in theory.

windian425 wrote:
Excellent news for Aer Lingus! They need to get some more A321LR's as soon as possible.


Countdown to EI announcing SWF and PVD in 5... 4... 3...
 
Dominion301
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:49 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
windian425 wrote:
Excellent news for Aer Lingus! They need to get some more A321LR's as soon as possible.


I could see JetBlue a season more likely to get those slots and planes first, as they’re not a competitor to Norwegian. That would also help in getting ETOPS certified.


Similarly, to fill the void at ORK, I could see AC launching YYZ-ORK once the MAX is back.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:14 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Full blown attack by Delta on Norwegian, will start BOS-LGW May 2020.

Care to explain? Are you suggesting the MAX issues are due to Delta Air Lines??? That's past conspiracy theories...
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:27 am

lesfalls wrote:
Nothing about their BGO-SWF service so I wonder if that could be moved back to JFK as previously the flight was operated from JFK for 3 years.


Incorrect.

They operated Saturday only service for one summer. The results were limited local traffic, the majority were onward connections from BGO-Europe.

The announcement was that all Transoceanic MAX planned flights are cancelled going forward.

Norwegian is low on available 787 aircraft, and likely we will be for a while. They can fill more passengers on flights between partner cities with higher O&D pax. So, the likelihood of any return to transoceanic BGO flights anytime soon is not likely.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
Andy33
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:19 am

Blerg wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Norwegian has been cutting many flights left and right, anyone know what will happen with excess capacity? Will they park a lot of planes or...


They have been leasing planes. You will just see more Norweigan metal that is all.


You mean leasing to other airlines out there?


Norwegian has been wet-leasing in planes from other airlines to cover for engineless 787s and grounded MAXes.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:34 am

So, does this mean no flights by them to SWF ? That is going to hurt that airport, the local economy and take away a cheap option for flights. How long before they go the way of WOW.
 
rouelan
Posts: 74
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:54 am

jayunited wrote:
Secondly there Ireland TATL problems can't all be blamed on the MAX they operated those routes before the MAX with 738NGs.


They started operations with NGs because deliveries of max were delayed
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1192
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:37 am

CairnterriAIR wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Pretty big bummer for BDL/PVD/SWT


BDL was dropped over a year ago before the MAX issues. The reasoning was a tax break at EDI they were supposed to get didn’t happen....or something like that.


They blamed the Scottish Government for not reducing APD as they now have the power to set their own tax rates within Scotland. It was straight out of the Ryanair playbook of reasons to close a base and no doubt a convenient reason, despite the fact that Edinburgh itself is a popular inbound tourist market and other airlines serving EDI are unfazed.

Dieuwer wrote:
Full blown attack by Delta on Norwegian, will start BOS-LGW May 2020.


Plus LGW-JFK.
 
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enilria
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:55 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
they tried to focus on DUB which in fairness may have held out a bit longer if it wasn’t for the MAX but I think the overall failure was inevitable, MAX or no MAX.


I doubt that, Dublin was actually the only place these flights somewhat worked. Presumably because of the self-transfer options further into Europe that fed these flights, which don't exist on the other airports they tried TATL from. The only airport with somewhat a comparable number of connections further into Europe was Edinburgh, however the British APD made that their TATL flights out of Edinburgh were always more expensive than those out of Dublin so Dublin was the preferred airport for self-transfers.

They've shown that with the right amount of feed, TATL flights on a 737MAX are sustainable. Without feed, they aren't. However Norwegian didn't provide enough feed on the European end and only few people self-connect. Should Norwegian have had a feeder in Dublin, it would have been a whole other story. It's not about O/D to/from Dublin or wherever they fly from, it's broader than that. Dublin is just an entry point into Europe, not a destination by itself. Norwegian didn't see this broader picture, they focused too much on O/D. That's an important lesson to be learned.

Aer Lingus is not affected by this as they, unlike Norwegian, do have extensive feed into Europe. They would succeed where Norwegian failed.

Aer Lingus “could” succeed. 1) but the costs are much lower at Norwegian. 2) Spirit and arguably Frontier do fine without hubs, the economics of a hub operation are very different. Sometimes it’s just as good or better to take twice as many locals at 25% less $$$ each rather than prorating revenue over a connecting flight and the cost of a connecting back structure. 3) Winter sucks in Ireland. This is something Iceland has dealt with very well. The tourism industry keeps chugging In Winter. Ireland’s does not. This is a problem for anybody basing in Ireland. Planes gotta fly all year and with a hub structure you have a lot less options to do creative Winter flying.
 
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enilria
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:58 am

PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
Terrible shame. I enjoyed flying to Ireland for USD $300 round-trip. The business model had some obvious flaws, like lack of onward connections on either side, but where it worked despite that, it worked well.

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
wexfordflyer wrote:
I've seen they are cancelling all transatlantic routes from Ireland. Are there others they are also cancelling?

Press release RE Irish Routes:
https://media.uk.norwegian.com/pressrel ... 19-2905744


where else did they offer Max TA from? Edinburgh was already cancelled!


SWF-BGO was still on the schedule, at least in theory.

windian425 wrote:
Excellent news for Aer Lingus! They need to get some more A321LR's as soon as possible.


Countdown to EI announcing SWF and PVD in 5... 4... 3...

Keep counting. Not happening. EI has nearly as many problems with the NEO as DY has with the MAX. They aren’t going to announce any more narrow body Atlantic until Airbus gets that program fixed.
 
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enilria
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:59 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
CairnterriAIR wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Pretty big bummer for BDL/PVD/SWT


BDL was dropped over a year ago before the MAX issues. The reasoning was a tax break at EDI they were supposed to get didn’t happen....or something like that.


They blamed the Scottish Government for not reducing APD as they now have the power to set their own tax rates within Scotland. It was straight out of the Ryanair playbook of reasons to close a base and no doubt a convenient reason, despite the fact that Edinburgh itself is a popular inbound tourist market and other airlines serving EDI are unfazed.

Dieuwer wrote:
Full blown attack by Delta on Norwegian, will start BOS-LGW May 2020.


Plus LGW-JFK.

That’s actually an attack on B6. It was announced a week before B6’s Atlantic announcement that had been teased for weeks. DL didn’t know the B6 start date, so they announced a year early start basically by mistake.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:03 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
Nothing about their BGO-SWF service so I wonder if that could be moved back to JFK as previously the flight was operated from JFK for 3 years.


Incorrect.

They operated Saturday only service for one summer. The results were limited local traffic, the majority were onward connections from BGO-Europe.

The announcement was that all Transoceanic MAX planned flights are cancelled going forward.

Norwegian is low on available 787 aircraft, and likely we will be for a while. They can fill more passengers on flights between partner cities with higher O&D pax. So, the likelihood of any return to transoceanic BGO flights anytime soon is not likely.


Actually we are both mistaken. In Summer 2014 they operated 1x weekly May-October and Summer 2015 July-August 1x weekly. I looked back at my records regarding the flight. In addition they did operate SWF-BGO in summer 2017/2018 so they didn't give up so easily on the service. Once Norwegian is more stable I believe it could come back online as if they tried for 4 summer seasons they know that there is the demand.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
CXfirst
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:13 pm

Blerg wrote:

You mean leasing to other airlines out there?


They are currently leasing aircraft from other air operators to cover some of their routes. You'll see less of this, as Norwegian will be able to use their own aircraft. So, won't be parking planes yet. Their capacity will remain stretched, at least until the Max comes back into service.
 
iflyalexair
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:28 pm

lesfalls wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
Nothing about their BGO-SWF service so I wonder if that could be moved back to JFK as previously the flight was operated from JFK for 3 years.


Incorrect.

They operated Saturday only service for one summer. The results were limited local traffic, the majority were onward connections from BGO-Europe.

The announcement was that all Transoceanic MAX planned flights are cancelled going forward.

Norwegian is low on available 787 aircraft, and likely we will be for a while. They can fill more passengers on flights between partner cities with higher O&D pax. So, the likelihood of any return to transoceanic BGO flights anytime soon is not likely.


Actually we are both mistaken. In Summer 2014 they operated 1x weekly May-October and Summer 2015 July-August 1x weekly. I looked back at my records regarding the flight. In addition they did operate SWF-BGO in summer 2017/2018 so they didn't give up so easily on the service. Once Norwegian is more stable I believe it could come back online as if they tried for 4 summer seasons they know that there is the demand.


SWF-BGO was scheduled to fly 2x weekly Summer 2019 but was cancelled when the MAX was grounded. Not enough volume to bother with wetleasing. Passengers were offered a reroute via other Norwegian services from JFK to connect to BGO.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:32 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
9Patch wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

Irrelevant....... the issues are because they picked the 787.

They could have picked GE engines for their 787s.


But they couldn't have known these problems at the time they bought those aircraft. At that moment, the engines they picked were supposed to be safe. Only later it became clear there were issues with those engines, but by that time they already had them.

Of course they could have picked GE engines, but at the time there was no reason to. They could have picked another plane instead of the 787, but at the time there was no reason to. They picked what looked like a good choice, only later it turned out to be a bad choice.

I'd point out that Boeing and RR also could not have know of those problems at the time they sold the aircraft. The problems only showed up with long term exposure to high levels of sulfur in the air. Pratt's GTF has been its own little shop of horrors. You put your money down, you take your chances.

It's a shame to me, because TATL traffic is ready for a disruptive force. I was hoping DY would have been that force, but aviation is a risky business, and DY doesn't have the financial strength to carry it through the rough patches.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
THS214
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:52 pm

ltbewr wrote:
So, does this mean no flights by them to SWF ? That is going to hurt that airport, the local economy and take away a cheap option for flights. How long before they go the way of WOW.


They are on very thin with finance. Last year they lost a lot and this year seems to be the same or worse ( So far 12 month rolling). Latest monthly traffic report shows the same last year. Load factor is over 93% and they can't make the money the lose during the winter. All the extra leasing costs must heart them dearly. Fuel hedge roughly the same YoY. Doesn't look good. I wish them all the best as its a great airline but numbers are terrible.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:02 pm

Could EI extend the life of their ASL 757 (3/4 aircraft ?) contract to add PVD and SWF ? The market is proven and EI have connections to feed at Dub ...
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:51 am

Galwayman wrote:
Could EI extend the life of their ASL 757 (3/4 aircraft ?) contract to add PVD and SWF ? The market is proven and EI have connections to feed at Dub ...


I'd hazard a guess that the only market that's proven for those two destinations is people willing to fly TATL if the fares are very low or comparable to what Norwegian offered - something I'd be surprised if EI are able to profitably offer.

I'm also not sure if EI would want to start PVD given that BDL and BOS are 96 and 60 miles away respectively, especially considering the possibilities on offer with the A321LR/XLR's to go further into the US and Canada. Same with SWF given its distance and limited connectivity to NYC given the amount of flights already on offer from DUB to JFK and EWR (I accept there's more to the state of New York than NYC and it's a big state).

If I was EI, I'd be giving serious consideration to a seasonal TATL service from ORK providing the runway can handle an A321 going to NE USA, though I will admit I don't know the Irish market well enough to say for sure it could be a success.

Finally, an observation on my part is that another IAG airline (BA) set a precedent by scrapping LGW-FLL and LGW-OAK as soon as Norwegian moved their flights to MIA and SFO respectively. If it wasn't for Norwegian, I do not think BA would have started those flights to begin with.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:22 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Could EI extend the life of their ASL 757 (3/4 aircraft ?) contract to add PVD and SWF ? The market is proven and EI have connections to feed at Dub ...


I'd hazard a guess that the only market that's proven for those two destinations is people willing to fly TATL if the fares are very low or comparable to what Norwegian offered - something I'd be surprised if EI are able to profitably offer.

I'm also not sure if EI would want to start PVD given that BDL and BOS are 96 and 60 miles away respectively, especially considering the possibilities on offer with the A321LR/XLR's to go further into the US and Canada. Same with SWF given its distance and limited connectivity to NYC given the amount of flights already on offer from DUB to JFK and EWR (I accept there's more to the state of New York than NYC and it's a big state).

If I was EI, I'd be giving serious consideration to a seasonal TATL service from ORK providing the runway can handle an A321 going to NE USA, though I will admit I don't know the Irish market well enough to say for sure it could be a success.

Finally, an observation on my part is that another IAG airline (BA) set a precedent by scrapping LGW-FLL and LGW-OAK as soon as Norwegian moved their flights to MIA and SFO respectively. If it wasn't for Norwegian, I do not think BA would have started those flights to begin with.


Very insightful many thanks

Any NA flights that don’t feed the Dub hub will be a nightmare for EI ,,, once launched the politicians will hound EI day and night to keep them , expand , lower fares etc ..SNNs just up the road , the only thing I could see Cork getting is an extension leg from Dub dedicated to TA passengers transferring at DUB to EI transatlantic flights
 
by738
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:37 pm

these routes are gone, nada, never to be seen again. The small narrowbody regional experiment model unfortunately hasn't worked and I can't see working in the near term. Shame for said regional ports however.
 
TObound
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:48 pm

How does yield compare for narrowbodies on TATL vs. short-haul? I would think short-haul is higher yielding. This is why I am somewhat skeptical about narrowbody TATL, especially when pushed by discount carriers. It's one thing for AC, DL, AF, EI, etc. to offer TATL routes on narrowbodies from their hubs, with higher yielding feed than for airlines like Norwegian trying to make money on point-to-point on traveler who want to cross the pond for about the cost of a night in a hotel on the other side. The LCCs and ULCCs face a whole different set of obstacles.
 
tphuang
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:32 am

enilria wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
CairnterriAIR wrote:

BDL was dropped over a year ago before the MAX issues. The reasoning was a tax break at EDI they were supposed to get didn’t happen....or something like that.


They blamed the Scottish Government for not reducing APD as they now have the power to set their own tax rates within Scotland. It was straight out of the Ryanair playbook of reasons to close a base and no doubt a convenient reason, despite the fact that Edinburgh itself is a popular inbound tourist market and other airlines serving EDI are unfazed.

Dieuwer wrote:
Full blown attack by Delta on Norwegian, will start BOS-LGW May 2020.


Plus LGW-JFK.

That’s actually an attack on B6. It was announced a week before B6’s Atlantic announcement that had been teased for weeks. DL didn’t know the B6 start date, so they announced a year early start basically by mistake.


Yep, DL loves finding ways to try to make things harder for B6, even if it cuts into their margin. Great example was when they made those D1 announcement after mint expansion. Too bad for them JetBlue's cost with the mint product is just so much lower than legacy carriers that it never ends up working.

What I do think is that after B6 starts BOS/JFK-LON/CDG, DY will be in a world of trouble. With B6's ability to offer cheap Y and J seats, DY would have to really undercut B6's J pricing to sell their premium seats. If you can get lie flat for $2000 R/T on B6, How much will DY have to price their premium seat to sell them? $1200? $1500? How low will they have to go to undercut B6 in Y pricing when all the casual leisure travelers from BOS/JFK are going to pay a premium for a vastly superior product in B6 economy that's going to have more leg room, wider space, free wifi and upgraded TV. Either way, with all those seats DY have to fill, achieving a sustainable yield is going to next to impossible.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:06 am

people still defending the absolute dumpster fire that is the MAX, just wow

I hope DY and every other airline affected by this disgusting greedy management team, who has yet to be sacked I might add, gets every cent they are owed for the disaster created with this joke of a plane.
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:56 am

tphuang wrote:
enilria wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:

They blamed the Scottish Government for not reducing APD as they now have the power to set their own tax rates within Scotland. It was straight out of the Ryanair playbook of reasons to close a base and no doubt a convenient reason, despite the fact that Edinburgh itself is a popular inbound tourist market and other airlines serving EDI are unfazed.



Plus LGW-JFK.

That’s actually an attack on B6. It was announced a week before B6’s Atlantic announcement that had been teased for weeks. DL didn’t know the B6 start date, so they announced a year early start basically by mistake.


Yep, DL loves finding ways to try to make things harder for B6, even if it cuts into their margin. Great example was when they made those D1 announcement after mint expansion. Too bad for them JetBlue's cost with the mint product is just so much lower than legacy carriers that it never ends up working.

What I do think is that after B6 starts BOS/JFK-LON/CDG, DY will be in a world of trouble. With B6's ability to offer cheap Y and J seats, DY would have to really undercut B6's J pricing to sell their premium seats. If you can get lie flat for $2000 R/T on B6, How much will DY have to price their premium seat to sell them? $1200? $1500? How low will they have to go to undercut B6 in Y pricing when all the casual leisure travelers from BOS/JFK are going to pay a premium for a vastly superior product in B6 economy that's going to have more leg room, wider space, free wifi and upgraded TV. Either way, with all those seats DY have to fill, achieving a sustainable yield is going to next to impossible.


DY already charges around $1200 roundtrip for their premium seats on BOS-LGW.
 
uconn99
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:55 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
enilria wrote:
That’s actually an attack on B6. It was announced a week before B6’s Atlantic announcement that had been teased for weeks. DL didn’t know the B6 start date, so they announced a year early start basically by mistake.


Yep, DL loves finding ways to try to make things harder for B6, even if it cuts into their margin. Great example was when they made those D1 announcement after mint expansion. Too bad for them JetBlue's cost with the mint product is just so much lower than legacy carriers that it never ends up working.

What I do think is that after B6 starts BOS/JFK-LON/CDG, DY will be in a world of trouble. With B6's ability to offer cheap Y and J seats, DY would have to really undercut B6's J pricing to sell their premium seats. If you can get lie flat for $2000 R/T on B6, How much will DY have to price their premium seat to sell them? $1200? $1500? How low will they have to go to undercut B6 in Y pricing when all the casual leisure travelers from BOS/JFK are going to pay a premium for a vastly superior product in B6 economy that's going to have more leg room, wider space, free wifi and upgraded TV. Either way, with all those seats DY have to fill, achieving a sustainable yield is going to next to impossible.


DY already charges around $1200 roundtrip for their premium seats on BOS-LGW.


I flew BDL-DUB-BOS round trip in business last summer on EI for $1,900. I would pay the extra $600-$700 any day to fly EI over DY.
 
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bluefltspecial
Posts: 523
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:38 am

tphuang wrote:
enilria wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:

They blamed the Scottish Government for not reducing APD as they now have the power to set their own tax rates within Scotland. It was straight out of the Ryanair playbook of reasons to close a base and no doubt a convenient reason, despite the fact that Edinburgh itself is a popular inbound tourist market and other airlines serving EDI are unfazed.



Plus LGW-JFK.

That’s actually an attack on B6. It was announced a week before B6’s Atlantic announcement that had been teased for weeks. DL didn’t know the B6 start date, so they announced a year early start basically by mistake.


Yep, DL loves finding ways to try to make things harder for B6, even if it cuts into their margin. Great example was when they made those D1 announcement after mint expansion. Too bad for them JetBlue's cost with the mint product is just so much lower than legacy carriers that it never ends up working.

What I do think is that after B6 starts BOS/JFK-LON/CDG, DY will be in a world of trouble. With B6's ability to offer cheap Y and J seats, DY would have to really undercut B6's J pricing to sell their premium seats. If you can get lie flat for $2000 R/T on B6, How much will DY have to price their premium seat to sell them? $1200? $1500? How low will they have to go to undercut B6 in Y pricing when all the casual leisure travelers from BOS/JFK are going to pay a premium for a vastly superior product in B6 economy that's going to have more leg room, wider space, free wifi and upgraded TV. Either way, with all those seats DY have to fill, achieving a sustainable yield is going to next to impossible.


You can get a round trip for $1200 from JFK-LGW in their premium cabin, and unlike most airlines they will sell you a one way ticket for ... half that cost, $600. Unlike most airlines which try to upcharge you for a one way ticket looking at it as a sale to a business traveler.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
tphuang
Posts: 3237
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:56 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
tphuang wrote:
enilria wrote:
That’s actually an attack on B6. It was announced a week before B6’s Atlantic announcement that had been teased for weeks. DL didn’t know the B6 start date, so they announced a year early start basically by mistake.


Yep, DL loves finding ways to try to make things harder for B6, even if it cuts into their margin. Great example was when they made those D1 announcement after mint expansion. Too bad for them JetBlue's cost with the mint product is just so much lower than legacy carriers that it never ends up working.

What I do think is that after B6 starts BOS/JFK-LON/CDG, DY will be in a world of trouble. With B6's ability to offer cheap Y and J seats, DY would have to really undercut B6's J pricing to sell their premium seats. If you can get lie flat for $2000 R/T on B6, How much will DY have to price their premium seat to sell them? $1200? $1500? How low will they have to go to undercut B6 in Y pricing when all the casual leisure travelers from BOS/JFK are going to pay a premium for a vastly superior product in B6 economy that's going to have more leg room, wider space, free wifi and upgraded TV. Either way, with all those seats DY have to fill, achieving a sustainable yield is going to next to impossible.


You can get a round trip for $1200 from JFK-LGW in their premium cabin, and unlike most airlines they will sell you a one way ticket for ... half that cost, $600. Unlike most airlines which try to upcharge you for a one way ticket looking at it as a sale to a business traveler.


not everyday though. I think if $1000 to $1500 O/W J fare becomes common on BOS-LON/CDG for example once B6 jumps in, DY is going to have to keep all their tickets at $500 and still struggle to sell them out. Going to be a disaster for them.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Norwegian to cancel all TATL MAX routes

Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:53 pm

tphuang wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Yep, DL loves finding ways to try to make things harder for B6, even if it cuts into their margin. Great example was when they made those D1 announcement after mint expansion. Too bad for them JetBlue's cost with the mint product is just so much lower than legacy carriers that it never ends up working.

What I do think is that after B6 starts BOS/JFK-LON/CDG, DY will be in a world of trouble. With B6's ability to offer cheap Y and J seats, DY would have to really undercut B6's J pricing to sell their premium seats. If you can get lie flat for $2000 R/T on B6, How much will DY have to price their premium seat to sell them? $1200? $1500? How low will they have to go to undercut B6 in Y pricing when all the casual leisure travelers from BOS/JFK are going to pay a premium for a vastly superior product in B6 economy that's going to have more leg room, wider space, free wifi and upgraded TV. Either way, with all those seats DY have to fill, achieving a sustainable yield is going to next to impossible.


You can get a round trip for $1200 from JFK-LGW in their premium cabin, and unlike most airlines they will sell you a one way ticket for ... half that cost, $600. Unlike most airlines which try to upcharge you for a one way ticket looking at it as a sale to a business traveler.


not everyday though. I think if $1000 to $1500 O/W J fare becomes common on BOS-LON/CDG for example once B6 jumps in, DY is going to have to keep all their tickets at $500 and still struggle to sell them out. Going to be a disaster for them.


I was pretty sure they already did offer that every day, so, Just did a quick google search on google.com/flights,
and every day in October thru March (sans a few holidays in Dec), they offer "premium" class on the NYC-LON route for anywhere from $530-560.
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