SCQ83
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TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:37 pm

Finally TAP announces LIS-SCQ, the biggest gap in their Spanish network. They are also dropping LCY, currently flown from both OPO and LIS, and CGN, STR and BSL from LIS.

OPO-BCN and OPO-LYS will be also chopped, and OPO-MAD will be increased to 6 daily (!). Madrid from OPO has boomed over the last few years.

https://www.dinheirovivo.pt/empresas/ta ... es-aereas/

TAP suspende operação em London City e anuncia novas pontes aéreas

À saída de Lisboa, a capacidade dedicada a Estugarda, Colónia e Basileia será redirecionada para outros mercados. Será criada uma nova ponte aérea para ligar Lisboa a Madrid. A TAP lançará ainda uma nova rota para Santiago de Compostela, e reforçará outras ligações a Espanha, acrescentando voos diários entre Lisboa e as cidades de Barcelona, Bilbau, Valência e Málaga e Sevilha.
Last edited by SCQ83 on Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:43 pm

TP is definitely on a hot streak in the last year or so. I trust that this is some pretty important network cleanup, getting rid of a bunch of underperforming routes. Could couple with more regional additions in addition to SCQ and the MAD increase.

Quick note, might want to edit the title to 'drops LIS/OPO-LCY'. The phrasing you used makes it sound like they're dropping LIS-OPO as well.
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:48 pm

Will TP finally launch LIS-YUL next summer ?
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:57 pm

The subject says they're dropping LIS-OPO but I don't see any indication of that in the thread or the linked article?
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SCQ83
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:10 pm

BWIAirport wrote:
TP is definitely on a hot streak in the last year or so. I trust that this is some pretty important network cleanup, getting rid of a bunch of underperforming routes. Could couple with more regional additions in addition to SCQ and the MAD increase.

Quick note, might want to edit the title to 'drops LIS/OPO-LCY'. The phrasing you used makes it sound like they're dropping LIS-OPO as well.


Thanks. Corrected.

CGN and LCY are not surprising. TAP was one of the few legacies to serve both DUS and CGN and 3 London airports (LCY, LGW and LHR). Clearly an overkill. STR is a bit more surprising but I wonder if FRA is too close. Iberia Express also served briefly MAD-STR a few years ago.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:13 pm

I think we are going to continue to see some route roulette from TAP, especially from LIS because that airport is bursting at the seams. They need to make room for more flights to markets with more demand such as U.S. and Brazil.

Also announced, Natal and Belém will increase frequencies from 3x to 5x weekly with A321LR. MIA will increase to 10 weekly, NY will go to 4x daily (2xLIS-JFK, 1xLIS-EWR, 1xOPO-EWR), and IAD and ORD will go up to daily.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:16 pm

adamblang wrote:
The subject says they're dropping LIS-OPO but I don't see any indication of that in the thread or the linked article?


Did you mean LYS-OPO?
Dropping LIS-OPO would be a weird movement for TP... :bigthumbsup:
 
SCQ83
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:23 pm

Btw next summer OPO-MAD will be up to 18 weekly flights each way (!).

To put things in perspective, in 2004 (oldest data available in AENA), MAD-OPO had 190k PAX. In 2018, the route had 860k. At this pace, MAD-OPO could surpass LIS-OPO to become Porto's second destination only after Paris.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:45 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
STR is a bit more surprising but I wonder if FRA is too close. Iberia Express also served briefly MAD-STR a few years ago.

I think IB is still operating MAD - STR.

For the LIS - BSL sector, there is a strong competition with easyJet.
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SCQ83
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:52 pm

Alsatian wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
STR is a bit more surprising but I wonder if FRA is too close. Iberia Express also served briefly MAD-STR a few years ago.

I think IB is still operating MAD - STR.

For the LIS - BSL sector, there is a strong competition with easyJet.


True. I thought STR was chopped along with other German destinations (like HAJ)

BSL also has ZRH around the corner. Relatively similar situation to CGN/DUS or London. However more carriers fly to both BSL and ZRH since BSL gets more PAX from France and Germany.
 
SCQ83
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:59 pm

Btw Embajador3 and LXwing, I would appreciate your precious comments in this thread, since this one is locked:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1405687
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:03 pm

How about LIS-MLA?
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:55 pm

What are they going to do with the aircraft? Any other new routes? IST? BEY? IEV?
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:01 pm

Plus 10x per week to Miami. Daily to Chicago and Washington, Finally 4 x daily to New York. Crazy growth!
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:17 pm

Still waiting on BOS-OPO on the LR to be announced!
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:32 pm

Wasn't ATL service supposed to start also???
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:55 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
Still waiting on BOS-OPO on the LR to be announced!


This is the only route I really care about. lol.
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:51 am

So how many flights a day will MAD be receiving from TP?

Flew TP on MXP-LIS-MAD and there were many people from the MXP flight connecting too + many portugese business people heading to Madrid for the day it seemed.
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:12 am

I think wasn't mentioned so far, but LIS-DME will change to A321neoLR and LIS-TLV will increase to twice daily, also with A321neoLR.

Source is the company's own press release: https://www.tapairportugal.com/pt/media ... elease-786
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:15 am

Dieuwer wrote:
How about LIS-MLA?


What are you looking for?

I think KM flies MLA-LIS a couple of times a week, there are tenths of euro markets TP would serve ahead of MLA.
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:29 am

dfpinto wrote:
I think wasn't mentioned so far, but LIS-DME will change to A321neoLR and LIS-TLV will increase to twice daily, also with A321neoLR


It is surprising TAP didn't tap into TLV much earlier.

Iberia/El Al is 3 daily (except Shabbat, only 2) with IB flying daily the A330 and about 10 weekly with Air Europa with UX flying daily the B787.

Market between the Americas and Israel is massive (Jewish VFR + Christian pilgrims; and the latter is probably a fast-growing one). With TAP's network in the US/Brazil and LIS geographical location, it was a no brainer.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:41 am

I think the routes to Germany can be easily covered by FR/LAUDA bases if indeed there is demand..As for London City, with TP gone, BA can add LIS/OPO to its route network and increase their dominance..The OPO-BCN/LYS is already covered by Easyjet,Vueling, Transavia France, so i dont think there will be a gap left
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:03 am

I've just checked a flight from SCQ to Brussels in November and this is what I get:

"Operated by bus* Intermediate stop in Vigo"

Thus, Santiago-Oporto by bus. Is this some kind of joke?
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SCQ83
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:13 am

marcogr12 wrote:
I think the routes to Germany can be easily covered by FR/LAUDA bases if indeed there is demand..As for London City, with TP gone, BA can add LIS/OPO to its route network and increase their dominance..The OPO-BCN/LYS is already covered by Easyjet,Vueling, Transavia France, so i dont think there will be a gap left


I doubt BA Cityflyer will ever fly to LIS or OPO from LCY. They don't even fly to MAD or BCN. BA at LCY flies to business-heavy (peak) or leisure-heavy (off-peak) destinations.

spantax wrote:
I've just checked a flight from SCQ to Brussels in November and this is what I get:

"Operated by bus* Intermediate stop in Vigo"

Thus, Santiago-Oporto by bus. Is this some kind of joke?


That is an existing bus service. All the new changes are not yet uploaded to the system.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:58 am

marcogr12 wrote:
I think the routes to Germany can be easily covered by FR/LAUDA bases if indeed there is demand..As for London City, with TP gone, BA can add LIS/OPO to its route network and increase their dominance..The OPO-BCN/LYS is already covered by Easyjet,Vueling, Transavia France, so i dont think there will be a gap left


Brexit fallout is playing a huge part in this decision. Not as many brits travelling to Portugal/Spain.
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:20 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Btw Embajador3 and LXwing, I would appreciate your precious comments in this thread, since this one is locked:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1405687


How about we wait and see if the route lasts, or even starts before celebrating? :)

AV8AJET wrote:
Wasn't ATL service supposed to start also???

From what I can see they're not announcing new routes this time. Only dropped routes and frequency increases.
This was from 2 years ago: "Top JetBlue cities for travelers to Portugal are: San Francisco, Los Angeles, Washington DC, Raleigh, Chicago, Atlanta, Denver, Dallas, Tampa, and Detroit."
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-rele ... -Mark.html
If we go down that list, SFO, IAD, ORD have been added. RDU, ATL, and DTW can be done with an A321LR so those should be easier adds than the rest.

SCQ83 wrote:
It is surprising TAP didn't tap into TLV much earlier.
Market between the Americas and Israel is massive

TAP didn't have much of a market in the Americas outside of Brazil, up until now. So adding TLV this year made perfect sense.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:26 pm

boeingbus wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
I think the routes to Germany can be easily covered by FR/LAUDA bases if indeed there is demand..As for London City, with TP gone, BA can add LIS/OPO to its route network and increase their dominance..The OPO-BCN/LYS is already covered by Easyjet,Vueling, Transavia France, so i dont think there will be a gap left


Brexit fallout is playing a huge part in this decision. Not as many brits travelling to Portugal/Spain.


The number of Germans visiting Portugal also fell last year. I suppose that's to do with Brexit as well? While numbers are down to Spain and Portugal, numbers are up to Greece, USA and Turkey among others. So perhaps a weaker pound may put people off going to Eurozone destinations but other than that there are a multitude of reasons and not just
"brexit fallout".

Another reality is also that TAP didn't advertise this route in London. I never once saw any ads for the route compared to BA, LOT or KLM promoting their new routes from LCY.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:36 pm

airbazar wrote:
I think we are going to continue to see some route roulette from TAP, especially from LIS because that airport is bursting at the seams. They need to make room for more flights to markets with more demand such as U.S. and Brazil.

Also announced, Natal and Belém will increase frequencies from 3x to 5x weekly with A321LR. MIA will increase to 10 weekly, NY will go to 4x daily (2xLIS-JFK, 1xLIS-EWR, 1xOPO-EWR), and IAD and ORD will go up to daily.


When will TAP go daily to IAD? And what equipment? In October they supposed to downsize to A321N.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:48 pm

boeingbus wrote:
Plus 10x per week to Miami.

Especially interested in this. The article says "in 2020", but does anyone know if that's per Jan 1 or per the start of the summer season (in April)?
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:34 pm

seansasLCY wrote:

The number of Germans visiting Portugal also fell last year. I suppose that's to do with Brexit as well? While numbers are down to Spain and Portugal, numbers are up to Greece, USA and Turkey among others. So perhaps a weaker pound may put people off going to Eurozone destinations but other than that there are a multitude of reasons and not just
"brexit fallout".

Another reality is also that TAP didn't advertise this route in London. I never once saw any ads for the route compared to BA, LOT or KLM promoting their new routes from LCY.


Sir, if you feel that BREXIT has no impact on the airline industry than you are a fool :lol: Also, the weaker pound is attributable to what?!?! BREXIT What does Germany have to do with the price of cheese in England? These two countries are unrelated. TP feels it can reduce risk exposure to BREXIT and reposition aircraft to countries that can make more money. TP won't be alone in this...
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:48 pm

4X Daily to NY????? :o
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:43 pm

AirFrance77W wrote:
4X Daily to NY????? :o

It was long overdue. TP needs either a morning departure or a very late departure (~1am), in order to offer better connections to Africa.
boeingbus wrote:
Brexit fallout is playing a huge part in this decision. Not as many brits travelling to Portugal/Spain.

Not as many Brits traveling to Portugal because they have all moved there permanently LOL
In all seriousness, Brits don't really go to Lisbon. They only know Algarve.
TP's flights to LCY were originally intended for Portugal POS and connecting passengers.
At the end of the day I think this is really about shuffling pieces around and getting ready for the Lisbon airport construction that is about to start and will cause even bigger problems than what exists today. Things are about to get really ugly at LIS before it gets better.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:05 pm

boeingbus wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:

The number of Germans visiting Portugal also fell last year. I suppose that's to do with Brexit as well? While numbers are down to Spain and Portugal, numbers are up to Greece, USA and Turkey among others. So perhaps a weaker pound may put people off going to Eurozone destinations but other than that there are a multitude of reasons and not just
"brexit fallout".

Another reality is also that TAP didn't advertise this route in London. I never once saw any ads for the route compared to BA, LOT or KLM promoting their new routes from LCY.


Sir, if you feel that BREXIT has no impact on the airline industry than you are a fool :lol: Also, the weaker pound is attributable to what?!?! BREXIT What does Germany have to do with the price of cheese in England? These two countries are unrelated. TP feels it can reduce risk exposure to BREXIT and reposition aircraft to countries that can make more money. TP won't be alone in this...


I didn't say it has no impact. I said that its likely not the reason for TAP suspending the route and at no point did TAP say that they are doing it to reduce exposure. If it was, surely other UK destinations would be dropped too? My comparison to Germany was that passenger numbers between Portugal and other countries are also falling. And yes, the weaker pound is because of the instability but that also has a plus side of making the UK more attractive to foreigners as things are cheaper.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:17 pm

boeingbus wrote:
Brexit fallout is playing a huge part in this decision. Not as many brits travelling to Portugal/Spain.

Not as many Brits traveling to Portugal because they have all moved there permanently LOL
In all seriousness, Brits don't really go to Lisbon. They only know Algarve.”

I’d like to point out that some of these statements are wrong- UK-Portugal pax numbers are at all time high.
Source:
http://presstur.viatecla.com/empresas-- ... -semestre/

They’re up 11.8% year on year.

Also after visiting Lisbon region a couple of times this summer already it’s easy to see that brits are now travelling further afield, Lisbon, Cascais, Sintra are full of Brit’s- the typical package holiday is no longer as popular, mostly because low cost airlines have made it happen.


I did see some adverts on newspapers and taxis for the LCY routes.

A321 has been a regular at LGW and LHR and almost a daily A330 to LHR.

LCY is an expensive airport to operate to/from and some of these connections go for vary low fares.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:46 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
I didn't say it has no impact. I said that its likely not the reason for TAP suspending the route and at no point did TAP say that they are doing it to reduce exposure.

Actually they did. TAP said the reason they are dropping LCY is because of poor demand as a result of Brexit. Whether we believe that or not, that's a different story :)
https://www.tapairportugal.com/pt/media ... elease-786
"Devido às incertezas de procura por parte dos Clientes, associada ao Brexit, e pelos resultados abaixo do esperado nesse mesmo mercado, a TAP decide suspender a operação no aeroporto de London City"
santos wrote:
Also after visiting Lisbon region a couple of times this summer already it’s easy to see that brits are now travelling further afield, Lisbon, Cascais, Sintra are full of Brit’s- the typical package holiday is no longer as popular, mostly because low cost airlines have made it happen.

OK, Algarve and Cascais :)
My parents live in Cascais and I too was there this Summer. In Lisbon proper, I didn't see that many.
And yes there's been a huge influx of Brits to Portugal in recent years, in part due to Brexit because they want out of England while their money is still worth something. As a result that has made Algarve an expensive place not to mention it's now a full British colony, and thus we are seeing a reduction in other nationalities that traditionally saw it as a cheap place. Property prices in Algarve are now the most expensive in all of Portugal, more so than Lisbon and Porto.
 
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:35 pm

airbazar wrote:
I think we are going to continue to see some route roulette from TAP, especially from LIS because that airport is bursting at the seams. They need to make room for more flights to markets with more demand such as U.S. and Brazil.

Also announced, Natal and Belém will increase frequencies from 3x to 5x weekly with A321LR. MIA will increase to 10 weekly, NY will go to 4x daily (2xLIS-JFK, 1xLIS-EWR, 1xOPO-EWR), and IAD and ORD will go up to daily.


Really surprised they are adding the additional NY frequency to JFK and not to EWR, which is where the majority of the Portuguese people in the NYC area are (and which commands a revenue premium, at least in the non-stop flights). Their relationship with United must really suck.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:33 pm

airbazar wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
I didn't say it has no impact. I said that its likely not the reason for TAP suspending the route and at no point did TAP say that they are doing it to reduce exposure.

Actually they did. TAP said the reason they are dropping LCY is because of poor demand as a result of Brexit. Whether we believe that or not, that's a different story :)
https://www.tapairportugal.com/pt/media ... elease-786
"Devido às incertezas de procura por parte dos Clientes, associada ao Brexit, e pelos resultados abaixo do esperado nesse mesmo mercado, a TAP decide suspender a operação no aeroporto de London City"
santos wrote:
Also after visiting Lisbon region a couple of times this summer already it’s easy to see that brits are now travelling further afield, Lisbon, Cascais, Sintra are full of Brit’s- the typical package holiday is no longer as popular, mostly because low cost airlines have made it happen.

OK, Algarve and Cascais :)
My parents live in Cascais and I too was there this Summer. In Lisbon proper, I didn't see that many.
And yes there's been a huge influx of Brits to Portugal in recent years, in part due to Brexit because they want out of England while their money is still worth something. As a result that has made Algarve an expensive place not to mention it's now a full British colony, and thus we are seeing a reduction in other nationalities that traditionally saw it as a cheap place. Property prices in Algarve are now the most expensive in all of Portugal, more so than Lisbon and Porto.


Thanks. Apologies for being incorrect. I stand corrected.
 
BHXRunway15
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:17 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:09 pm

[quote="airbazar"][quote="seansasLCY"]
Actually they did. TAP said the reason they are dropping LCY is because of poor demand as a result of Brexit. Whether we believe that or not, that's a different story :)

I suppose we can forget BHX then!!!!!!!!!!!!

We despair year after year when we see new TAP routes which you know don't stand a chance but BHX is ignored despite Monarch operating briefly with 80-90% load factors (I know they went bust but not due to BHX-LIS). They proved that there was a market but all we hear is BHX is too close to Manchester and London. Good job Iberia, Lufthansa, Swiss, SAS, Brussels, Eurowings, Emirates, Qatar, and Turkish don't take the same attitude Even Ryanair have made BHX-OPO year-round (at the moment).

Maybe one for easyjet now that they seem to woken up at BHX (GLA-BHX announced today) albeit with away based aircraft.
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:07 am

Pyrex wrote:
Really surprised they are adding the additional NY frequency to JFK and not to EWR, which is where the majority of the Portuguese people in the NYC area are (and which commands a revenue premium, at least in the non-stop flights). Their relationship with United must really suck.


JFK is the preferred airport for local traffic (including European tourists). TAP still has two daily EWR flights (LIS/OPO). I don't see what is weird about it. Air China, Air India, ANA, Asiana, Austrian, Avianca, Brussels, Copa, EgyptAir, Ethiopian, LOT, Lufthansa, South African, Swiss and Turkish fly to JFK despite being Star Alliance members.

BHXRunway15 wrote:
I suppose we can forget BHX then!!!!!!!!!!!!.


It is surprising nobody flies BHX-LIS (specially when BHX-OPO and BHX-FAO are operated). It looks like a typical Ryanair route.
 
Pyrex
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:48 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Really surprised they are adding the additional NY frequency to JFK and not to EWR, which is where the majority of the Portuguese people in the NYC area are (and which commands a revenue premium, at least in the non-stop flights). Their relationship with United must really suck.


JFK is the preferred airport for local traffic.


Not on NYC-LIS it isn't. That is why TP consistently earms a revenue premium on the non-stop EWR-LIS, as opposed to the JFK-LIS. Just looking ahead at four different dates in the upcoming months, with the exception of a random day in the middle of November where the price of the two flights is the same, the EWR-LIS flight was 16-22% more expensive than the JFK-LIS flight (and that is before TP just dumped a bunch of extra capacity at JFK). If you ever had to cross two rivers and deal with NJ and NYC traffic to get from the Newark/Elizabeth area to JFK, you would be more than willing to pay that extra 20% as well.

What this tells me is that, despite both being in Star Alliance, TP's relationship with UA is so bad it actually prefers to connect its US-bound passengers through JetBlue.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:19 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Not on NYC-LIS it isn't. That is why TP consistently earms a revenue premium on the non-stop EWR-LIS, as opposed to the JFK-LIS. Just looking ahead at four different dates in the upcoming months, with the exception of a random day in the middle of November where the price of the two flights is the same, the EWR-LIS flight was 16-22% more expensive than the JFK-LIS flight (and that is before TP just dumped a bunch of extra capacity at JFK). If you ever had to cross two rivers and deal with NJ and NYC traffic to get from the Newark/Elizabeth area to JFK, you would be more than willing to pay that extra 20% as well.


Local traffic I meant overall NYC traffic.

TAP keeps twice daily at EWR that can perfectly cover the needs of Portuguese VFR in Newark. Overall NYC traffic and European traffic prefer JFK so they add more flights there instead of EWR. TAP is not going only after Portuguese VFR traffic in NY/NJ with 4 daily flights to the area.

Also TAP is not only looking at point-to-point traffic. Probably TAP can command a premium on LYS-LIS-JFK over LYS-LIS-EWR or whatever any other connecting possibilities are there.
 
Kikko19
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:42 pm

I heard that TP will get back to HAV at some point. Maybe 2020 as well.
 
dfpinto
Posts: 66
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:27 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Really surprised they are adding the additional NY frequency to JFK and not to EWR, which is where the majority of the Portuguese people in the NYC area are (and which commands a revenue premium, at least in the non-stop flights). Their relationship with United must really suck.


Does United get along with anything in Europe that isn't blessed by Lufthansa?

Honestely it doesn't surprise me that TP prefers to do business with Jetblue.
 
MartijnNL
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:16 pm

lesfalls wrote:
So how many flights a day will MAD be receiving from TP?

Maybe SCQ83 can tell? In the opening post he states 6 daily flights, a few posts later it is down to 18 weekly.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9562
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:39 pm

Pyrex wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Really surprised they are adding the additional NY frequency to JFK and not to EWR, which is where the majority of the Portuguese people in the NYC area are (and which commands a revenue premium, at least in the non-stop flights). Their relationship with United must really suck.


JFK is the preferred airport for local traffic.


Not on NYC-LIS it isn't. That is why TP consistently earms a revenue premium on the non-stop EWR-LIS, as opposed to the JFK-LIS. Just looking ahead at four different dates in the upcoming months, with the exception of a random day in the middle of November where the price of the two flights is the same, the EWR-LIS flight was 16-22% more expensive than the JFK-LIS flight (and that is before TP just dumped a bunch of extra capacity at JFK). If you ever had to cross two rivers and deal with NJ and NYC traffic to get from the Newark/Elizabeth area to JFK, you would be more than willing to pay that extra 20% as well.

What this tells me is that, despite both being in Star Alliance, TP's relationship with UA is so bad it actually prefers to connect its US-bound passengers through JetBlue.


That's a stretch. UA and TP are competitors in the TATL market. On top of that UA has a JV with LH. I wouldn't expect UA to do TP any favors but I wouldn't call it a bad relationship either. It's just business.
Yes, JetBlue is by far TAP's largest partner in the U.S. TAP's recent TATL expansion has been driven in part by their partnership with B6. Because of that the JFK and EWR flights serve significantly different purposes. The EWR flights are clearly targeting the O&D market and like all such markets the yields are going to be higher. The JFK flight is targetting connecting traffic on both sides of the pond. Connecting traffic is inherently lower yielding traffic.
 
Pyrex
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:00 pm

dfpinto wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Really surprised they are adding the additional NY frequency to JFK and not to EWR, which is where the majority of the Portuguese people in the NYC area are (and which commands a revenue premium, at least in the non-stop flights). Their relationship with United must really suck.


Does United get along with anything in Europe that isn't blessed by Lufthansa?

Honestely it doesn't surprise me that TP prefers to do business with Jetblue.


Well, at least for now you can still use UA miles on the TP flights to Portugal. Which is a great thing, as the TP frequent flyer program is absolutely useless (the "surcharges" they charge on flights booked with TP miles are often higher than the entire cost of the flight in their competitors). I actually cancelled my TP account and started accruing Star Alliance miles on UA instead because of that.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
dfpinto
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:48 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:07 am

Good point, Pyrex. I actually forgot that I also have Miles & More from Lufthansa, because Victoria or whatever is called right now is really awful.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9562
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:39 am

Pyrex wrote:
Well, at least for now you can still use UA miles on the TP flights to Portugal. Which is a great thing, as the TP frequent flyer program is absolutely useless (the "surcharges" they charge on flights booked with TP miles are often higher than the entire cost of the flight in their competitors). I actually cancelled my TP account and started accruing Star Alliance miles on UA instead because of that.

I guess it depends. It's all in the availability. My father has Victoria and I have MileagePlus. In my experience it's nearly impossible to find availability for Saver awards on United except in low season and requires booking well in advance. My father on the other hand doesn't seem to have any issues finding availability to redeem his miles on TAP. But if you fly enough and accrue lots of mile then I guess using Everyday awards instead of Saver awards is not an issue. I'll tell you one thing tho, United MP is great to redeem on flights to Hawaii. Lots of availability on those routes and you get good bang for your buck.

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