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JayBCN
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:09 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:13 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
TP is definitely on a hot streak in the last year or so. I trust that this is some pretty important network cleanup, getting rid of a bunch of underperforming routes. Could couple with more regional additions in addition to SCQ and the MAD increase.

Quick note, might want to edit the title to 'drops LIS/OPO-LCY'. The phrasing you used makes it sound like they're dropping LIS-OPO as well.


Thanks. Corrected.

CGN and LCY are not surprising. TAP was one of the few legacies to serve both DUS and CGN and 3 London airports (LCY, LGW and LHR). Clearly an overkill. STR is a bit more surprising but I wonder if FRA is too close. Iberia Express also served briefly MAD-STR a few years ago.


Cancelling CGN is indeed a surprise considering
A TP started a second daily frequency with big fanfare only recently (billboards on airport parking)
B CGN being Germany’s 4th most populous city ahead of DUS, FRA and STR and serving with DUS the 10 million Rhein-Ruhr catchment area, the biggest in Germany
C CGN-LIS was never about local traffic but connections to the Americas with CGN being at the heart of the fast-growing Brazilian community in Germany and host to 200.000 LGBTQs who make up 20% of the population.
D DUS while only being 40k down the road Cologners would bend over backwards trekking up there on slow regional trains or congested freeways and DUS being the anti-City for them doesn’t help either.

So no, CGN being cancelled is a surprise.
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/LFW/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:40 pm

JayBCN wrote:
B CGN being Germany’s 4th most populous city ahead of DUS, FRA and STR and serving with DUS the 10 million Rhein-Ruhr catchment area, the biggest in Germany
D DUS while only being 40k down the road Cologners would bend over backwards trekking up there on slow regional trains or congested freeways and DUS being the anti-City for them doesn’t help either.

So no, CGN being cancelled is a surprise.


It is not a surprise by any means. All legacies (except Turkish with its special relation to Germany, and Lufthansa carriers - LH itself and Austrian -) fly only to DUS. In the last decade or so, CGN has lost the few remaining legacies: Continental Airlines, Czech Airlines, KLM and SAS. Cologne has became specialised somehow in low-cost and holiday destinations. It also has to do with the fact that Cologne is economically a relatively decaying city when compared to Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, Frankfurt or Düsseldorf itself. The surprising thing was that TAP decided to start CGN in the first place a couple of years ago, going against the tide.

Clearly legacy carriers see DUS/CGN as part of the same metro area, like they see LHR/LGW, JFK/EWR or CDG/ORY. Taking a train from Köln to DUS is as pain-free as it gets; it is heaven (and quicker in most cases) when compared to catch public transportation to LGW, LHR, ORY, CDG or JFK from the city center. Congested freeways like you have in any major city around the world, nothing unique about NRW.
 
Kadish
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/LFW/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:34 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
JayBCN wrote:
B CGN being Germany’s 4th most populous city ahead of DUS, FRA and STR and serving with DUS the 10 million Rhein-Ruhr catchment area, the biggest in Germany
D DUS while only being 40k down the road Cologners would bend over backwards trekking up there on slow regional trains or congested freeways and DUS being the anti-City for them doesn’t help either.

So no, CGN being cancelled is a surprise.


It is not a surprise by any means. All legacies (except Turkish with its special relation to Germany, and Lufthansa carriers - LH itself and Austrian -) fly only to DUS. In the last decade or so, CGN has lost the few remaining legacies: Continental Airlines, Czech Airlines, KLM and SAS. Cologne has became specialised somehow in low-cost and holiday destinations. It also has to do with the fact that Cologne is economically a relatively decaying city when compared to Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, Frankfurt or Düsseldorf itself. The surprising thing was that TAP decided to start CGN in the first place a couple of years ago, going against the tide.

Clearly legacy carriers see DUS/CGN as part of the same metro area, like they see LHR/LGW, JFK/EWR or CDG/ORY. Taking a train from Köln to DUS is as pain-free as it gets; it is heaven (and quicker in most cases) when compared to catch public transportation to LGW, LHR, ORY, CDG or JFK from the city center. Congested freeways like you have in any major city around the world, nothing unique about NRW.


IB flies 3 daily...so a bit of surprise considering they play in the same league looking 4 taking pax to Ameria...Maybe MAD can support the flight without further connections
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/LFW/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:26 am

Kadish wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
JayBCN wrote:
B CGN being Germany’s 4th most populous city ahead of DUS, FRA and STR and serving with DUS the 10 million Rhein-Ruhr catchment area, the biggest in Germany
D DUS while only being 40k down the road Cologners would bend over backwards trekking up there on slow regional trains or congested freeways and DUS being the anti-City for them doesn’t help either.

So no, CGN being cancelled is a surprise.


It is not a surprise by any means. All legacies (except Turkish with its special relation to Germany, and Lufthansa carriers - LH itself and Austrian -) fly only to DUS. In the last decade or so, CGN has lost the few remaining legacies: Continental Airlines, Czech Airlines, KLM and SAS. Cologne has became specialised somehow in low-cost and holiday destinations. It also has to do with the fact that Cologne is economically a relatively decaying city when compared to Berlin, Munich, Hamburg, Frankfurt or Düsseldorf itself. The surprising thing was that TAP decided to start CGN in the first place a couple of years ago, going against the tide.

Clearly legacy carriers see DUS/CGN as part of the same metro area, like they see LHR/LGW, JFK/EWR or CDG/ORY. Taking a train from Köln to DUS is as pain-free as it gets; it is heaven (and quicker in most cases) when compared to catch public transportation to LGW, LHR, ORY, CDG or JFK from the city center. Congested freeways like you have in any major city around the world, nothing unique about NRW.


IB flies 3 daily...so a bit of surprise considering they play in the same league looking 4 taking pax to Ameria...Maybe MAD can support the flight without further connections


Iberia flies only to DUS (as well as Air Europa). Like every other single legacy carrier out there except Turkish that flies to both CGN and DUS. MAD-CGN is only flown by Ryanair.
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:55 am

Btw those are legacy carriers / network airlines flying to CGN and DUS:

CGN: Austrian, British Airways (LGW), Georgian Airways, Iran Air, Lufthansa (MUC only), Turkish

DUS: Aegean, Aer Lingus, Aeroflot/Rossiya, airBaltic, Air China, Air Europa, Air France, Air Malta, Air Serbia, Alitalia, All Nippon Airways, Austrian, British Airways (LCY/LHR), Czech, Delta, El Al, Emirates, Etihad, Finnair, Iberia, Icelandair, Iraqi Airways, KLM, LOT, Lufthansa (FRA & MUC), Montenegro Airlines, S7, SAS, Singapore Airlines, Swiss, TAP, Turkish, Ukraine UIA.

So everybody except TK, Lufthansa Group (and even Swiss cannot bother with CGN), BA to LGW (so leisure flight) and some minor carriers (Georgian, Iran) fly only to DUS.

CGN-DUS (airport to airport) by car is 63.3 km or 40'. LHR-LGW is 56.3 km or 44'. MXP-BGY is 91.2 km or 1h4'. BRU-CRL is 68.7 km or 46'.

Even if on paper CGN and DUS serve different cities (while those other examples serve the same city), for service purposes they are the same market. So today CGN is not different than BGY, CRL or any other "Ryanair airport". And DUS is the MXP or BRU of the region.

Also in the case of Cologne, FRA Airport is only 50' by high-speed train. TAP on CGN-LIS-XXX did not have to compete only with themselves on DUS, everybody else flying DUS-XXX-Americas/Africa but also with non-stop services from FRA to the Americas.
 
lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:47 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS-OPO/LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:31 pm

JayBCN wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
TP is definitely on a hot streak in the last year or so. I trust that this is some pretty important network cleanup, getting rid of a bunch of underperforming routes. Could couple with more regional additions in addition to SCQ and the MAD increase.

Quick note, might want to edit the title to 'drops LIS/OPO-LCY'. The phrasing you used makes it sound like they're dropping LIS-OPO as well.


Thanks. Corrected.

CGN and LCY are not surprising. TAP was one of the few legacies to serve both DUS and CGN and 3 London airports (LCY, LGW and LHR). Clearly an overkill. STR is a bit more surprising but I wonder if FRA is too close. Iberia Express also served briefly MAD-STR a few years ago.


Cancelling CGN is indeed a surprise considering
A TP started a second daily frequency with big fanfare only recently (billboards on airport parking)
B CGN being Germany’s 4th most populous city ahead of DUS, FRA and STR and serving with DUS the 10 million Rhein-Ruhr catchment area, the biggest in Germany
C CGN-LIS was never about local traffic but connections to the Americas with CGN being at the heart of the fast-growing Brazilian community in Germany and host to 200.000 LGBTQs who make up 20% of the population.
D DUS while only being 40k down the road Cologners would bend over backwards trekking up there on slow regional trains or congested freeways and DUS being the anti-City for them doesn’t help either.

So no, CGN being cancelled is a surprise.


How does the size of LGBTQ population have anything to do with route profitability?
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:47 am

LIS-SCQ flights are already for sale starting October 25, 2020. Two daily flights to provide good connectivity between Galicia and TAP's network.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7321
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:16 pm

TAP should fly to Buenos Aires, Santiago, and Mexico City. Their route map to South America is heavily concentrated on Brazil, though understandable Brazil is not everything. TAP started flying to Miami a few years ago and that has worked well for them.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7321
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:17 pm

TAP should fly to Buenos Aires, Santiago, and Mexico City. Their route map to South America is heavily concentrated on Brazil, though understandable Brazil is not everything. TAP started flying to Miami a few years ago and that has worked well for them.
 
JJ777
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:27 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:35 pm

jfk777 wrote:
TAP should fly to Buenos Aires, Santiago, and Mexico City. Their route map to South America is heavily concentrated on Brazil, though understandable Brazil is not everything. TAP started flying to Miami a few years ago and that has worked well for them.


TAP will probably sign a JV agreement with Azul soon, so I don't think their Brazil-based strategy will change.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10083
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:49 pm

jfk777 wrote:
TAP should fly to Buenos Aires, Santiago, and Mexico City. Their route map to South America is heavily concentrated on Brazil, though understandable Brazil is not everything. TAP started flying to Miami a few years ago and that has worked well for them.

The problem is that anything else in the Americas would rely heavily on connections but LIS is at over capacity, making it very difficult to find "slots" to allow for decent connecting times so only pax paying rock bottom prices will be willing to endure a long layover in LIS. So TAP has to be very selective about what routes they can fly in order to maximize the value of the "slots" that they have at LIS. They have clearly decided that N.American and Brazilian routes is where they can get the most bang for their buck at LIS.
Having said that, the Argentinian government has once again as recently as last month stated that they are willing to subsidize a TAP flight to Buenos Aires, so maybe that is closer than we think.
https://eco.sapo.pt/2019/10/09/argentin ... nos-aires/
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4302
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:48 pm

Quietly, they went daily earlier than expected to EWR, BOS, and YYZ in the current winter schedule. They were already daily in the summer. Also, seems to have added flights to Africa as well. I just saw BJL, and something else I cannot recall.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1685
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:55 pm

Does anyone know when the additional flights to JFK will be loaded?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:20 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
Quietly, they went daily earlier than expected to EWR, BOS, and YYZ in the current winter schedule. They were already daily in the summer. Also, seems to have added flights to Africa as well. I just saw BJL, and something else I cannot recall.

Saludos,
Alex
Also Conakry

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SCQ83
Topic Author
Posts: 5665
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:45 pm

jfk777 wrote:
TAP should fly to Buenos Aires, Santiago, and Mexico City. Their route map to South America is heavily concentrated on Brazil, though understandable Brazil is not everything. TAP started flying to Miami a few years ago and that has worked well for them.


It seems a bit weird that they have expanded so heavily in Spain and their presence in Spanish-speaking America is negligible. But they had tried Lisbon-Bogotá-Panamá and was cancelled not long after. SCL and EZE are probably too long and unstable, but MEX seems like a good bet. I also have the feeling that MEX is more diversified and will get more connections to other countries like France or Italy where TAP has also a strong presence.
 
Kikko19
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Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:50 pm

Mex, lax and hav coming soon. Don't ask where I heard it.
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:46 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
It seems a bit weird that they have expanded so heavily in Spain and their presence in Spanish-speaking America is negligible.

It's neither weird nor I would call it a heavy expansion. TAP's service to Spain has been more or less at this level for 20 years, give or take the occasional route addition and termination. The main different is that in the past these routes were mostly operate by Portugalia on behalf of TAP. But this coverage is not weird simply because Spain is Portugal's largest business partner and largest European air market and without Portugal being connected to Spain's HSR network there will always be a need to link multiple cities by air.
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:11 pm

airbazar wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
It seems a bit weird that they have expanded so heavily in Spain and their presence in Spanish-speaking America is negligible.

It's neither weird nor I would call it a heavy expansion. TAP's service to Spain has been more or less at this level for 20 years, give or take the occasional route addition and termination. The main different is that in the past these routes were mostly operate by Portugalia on behalf of TAP. But this coverage is not weird simply because Spain is Portugal's largest business partner and largest European air market and without Portugal being connected to Spain's HSR network there will always be a need to link multiple cities by air.
Ir was not a heavy expansion, but a significant one...

TAP only was flying to Madrid and Barcelona

PGA used to fly to Spain with either B1900D or E145 even when it was bought by TAP in 2007...

Nowadays the routes are flown by ATR72 or bigger jet planes.
In the last 20 years they opened ALC, VGO, OVD, VLC, TFS and LPA and they closed PNA first (B1900D) and then OVD, LCG and VGO (1 daily ATR each).

VLC is being flown twice daily in summer, frequently with Airbus A320 series aircraft (mostly A319) or E190/E195... for a route that started with 2 daily B1900D flights, it is a big growth

BIO will be 3x daily with ATR72 and SVQ 4X daily...
Those are increases too..

Just the opening of TFS and LPA compensates the 3 routes that closed recently, plus the other adictions, it seems a nice grow...

TAP nowadays flyes to 9 Spanish cities(10 if we count with SCQ), not bad at all comparing to 20 years ago...

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efpmeneses
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:20 am

And I think that if TAP still had the ATR42 and LIS airport wasn't limited on slots, maybe those routes and some others in Spain could work well

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SCQ83
Topic Author
Posts: 5665
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:00 am

efpmeneses wrote:
airbazar wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
It seems a bit weird that they have expanded so heavily in Spain and their presence in Spanish-speaking America is negligible.

It's neither weird nor I would call it a heavy expansion. TAP's service to Spain has been more or less at this level for 20 years, give or take the occasional route addition and termination. The main different is that in the past these routes were mostly operate by Portugalia on behalf of TAP. But this coverage is not weird simply because Spain is Portugal's largest business partner and largest European air market and without Portugal being connected to Spain's HSR network there will always be a need to link multiple cities by air.
Ir was not a heavy expansion, but a significant one...

TAP only was flying to Madrid and Barcelona

PGA used to fly to Spain with either B1900D or E145 even when it was bought by TAP in 2007...

Nowadays the routes are flown by ATR72 or bigger jet planes.
In the last 20 years they opened ALC, VGO, OVD, VLC, TFS and LPA and they closed PNA first (B1900D) and then OVD, LCG and VGO (1 daily ATR each).

VLC is being flown twice daily in summer, frequently with Airbus A320 series aircraft (mostly A319) or E190/E195... for a route that started with 2 daily B1900D flights, it is a big growth

BIO will be 3x daily with ATR72 and SVQ 4X daily...
Those are increases too..

Just the opening of TFS and LPA compensates the 3 routes that closed recently, plus the other adictions, it seems a nice grow...

TAP nowadays flyes to 9 Spanish cities(10 if we count with SCQ), not bad at all comparing to 20 years ago...


Not 20 years ago, but only 5 years ago which is where this big expansion has taken place. Not to mention TAP's massive growth in MAD and BCN (including the new "ponte aerea" between MAD-LIS/OPO). I recall reading somewhere that France and Spain were on par as the busiest international markets for TP.
 
dfpinto
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:48 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:11 am

Kikko19 wrote:
Mex, lax and hav coming soon. Don't ask where I heard it.


Where did you hear that?
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:12 am

TAP have yet to hand back its London City slots for Summer 2020. This could mean they return to LCY
 
airbazar
Posts: 10083
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:28 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
efpmeneses wrote:
airbazar wrote:
It's neither weird nor I would call it a heavy expansion. TAP's service to Spain has been more or less at this level for 20 years, give or take the occasional route addition and termination. The main different is that in the past these routes were mostly operate by Portugalia on behalf of TAP. But this coverage is not weird simply because Spain is Portugal's largest business partner and largest European air market and without Portugal being connected to Spain's HSR network there will always be a need to link multiple cities by air.
Ir was not a heavy expansion, but a significant one...

TAP only was flying to Madrid and Barcelona

PGA used to fly to Spain with either B1900D or E145 even when it was bought by TAP in 2007...

Nowadays the routes are flown by ATR72 or bigger jet planes.
In the last 20 years they opened ALC, VGO, OVD, VLC, TFS and LPA and they closed PNA first (B1900D) and then OVD, LCG and VGO (1 daily ATR each).

VLC is being flown twice daily in summer, frequently with Airbus A320 series aircraft (mostly A319) or E190/E195... for a route that started with 2 daily B1900D flights, it is a big growth

BIO will be 3x daily with ATR72 and SVQ 4X daily...
Those are increases too..

Just the opening of TFS and LPA compensates the 3 routes that closed recently, plus the other adictions, it seems a nice grow...

TAP nowadays flyes to 9 Spanish cities(10 if we count with SCQ), not bad at all comparing to 20 years ago...


Not 20 years ago, but only 5 years ago which is where this big expansion has taken place. Not to mention TAP's massive growth in MAD and BCN (including the new "ponte aerea" between MAD-LIS/OPO). I recall reading somewhere that France and Spain were on par as the busiest international markets for TP.


TAP has been in most of these cities on and off for a very long time. If you look back into Portugalia's network they served 7 cities in Spain. Today TAP serves 9 so you're going to find basically the same list of cities. The main TAP expansion into Spain occurred in the early 2000's with Fernando Pinto alongside the equally expanding Brazilian network. He understood that LIS could be a good hub to link the Iberian peninsula and Brazil, a market which he knew very well. TAP first started by outsourcing the flying to PGA and then by outright buying PGA in 2006. They had a lot fewer frequencies and even fewer seats, that's for sure because PGA had smaller planes, mostly Fokker100's and E145's.
VLC is a perfect example, the route started in 2009. That's 10 years ago not 5. It did indeed start with a B1900D at 2x daily. A year later it grew to 3x daily and in 2011 it went to 2x daily with an E145. It's now 2x daily with an E190. BIO and most other Spanish cities followed a similar pattern of expansion. You can call it a massive expansion if you want but for me it just seems like normal growth.
The more recent increase in seats is IMO a result of not only a growing air market between the 2 countries but also the expansion into N.America. Once again TAP needs to rely on the entire Iberian peninsula to fill the seats on the N.American routes. Spain is a much bigger destination for Americans than Portugal is. It's as simple as that.
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:53 pm

This was Portugalia network at the beggining of june of 2007, before TAP aquisition.

The image is from Portugalia inflight magazine from june 2007Image

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airbazar
Posts: 10083
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:19 pm

efpmeneses wrote:
This was Portugalia network at the beggining of june of 2007, before TAP aquisition.

The image is from Portugalia inflight magazine from june 2007Image

So 6 cities in 2007. I was off by 1 but there you have it. I don't remember if TAP themselves served any cities in addition to those shown in that map but like I said they have been serving those cities for a very long time via PGA.
 
Kadish
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:58 pm

airbazar wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
efpmeneses wrote:
Ir was not a heavy expansion, but a significant one...

TAP only was flying to Madrid and Barcelona

PGA used to fly to Spain with either B1900D or E145 even when it was bought by TAP in 2007...

Nowadays the routes are flown by ATR72 or bigger jet planes.
In the last 20 years they opened ALC, VGO, OVD, VLC, TFS and LPA and they closed PNA first (B1900D) and then OVD, LCG and VGO (1 daily ATR each).

VLC is being flown twice daily in summer, frequently with Airbus A320 series aircraft (mostly A319) or E190/E195... for a route that started with 2 daily B1900D flights, it is a big growth

BIO will be 3x daily with ATR72 and SVQ 4X daily...
Those are increases too..

Just the opening of TFS and LPA compensates the 3 routes that closed recently, plus the other adictions, it seems a nice grow...

TAP nowadays flyes to 9 Spanish cities(10 if we count with SCQ), not bad at all comparing to 20 years ago...


Not 20 years ago, but only 5 years ago which is where this big expansion has taken place. Not to mention TAP's massive growth in MAD and BCN (including the new "ponte aerea" between MAD-LIS/OPO). I recall reading somewhere that France and Spain were on par as the busiest international markets for TP.


TAP has been in most of these cities on and off for a very long time. If you look back into Portugalia's network they served 7 cities in Spain. Today TAP serves 9 so you're going to find basically the same list of cities. The main TAP expansion into Spain occurred in the early 2000's with Fernando Pinto alongside the equally expanding Brazilian network. He understood that LIS could be a good hub to link the Iberian peninsula and Brazil, a market which he knew very well. TAP first started by outsourcing the flying to PGA and then by outright buying PGA in 2006. They had a lot fewer frequencies and even fewer seats, that's for sure because PGA had smaller planes, mostly Fokker100's and E145's.
VLC is a perfect example, the route started in 2009. That's 10 years ago not 5. It did indeed start with a B1900D at 2x daily. A year later it grew to 3x daily and in 2011 it went to 2x daily with an E145. It's now 2x daily with an E190. BIO and most other Spanish cities followed a similar pattern of expansion. You can call it a massive expansion if you want but for me it just seems like normal growth.
The more recent increase in seats is IMO a result of not only a growing air market between the 2 countries but also the expansion into N.America. Once again TAP needs to rely on the entire Iberian peninsula to fill the seats on the N.American routes. Spain is a much bigger destination for Americans than Portugal is. It's as simple as that.


I thought that VCL was flown with an ATR..anyway explained in detailed!
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4302
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:07 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
Mex, lax and hav coming soon. Don't ask where I heard it.


= Really? What are the sources? Why would they fly to LAX? Same with HAV. I could see them flying to MEX, as they have a very strong European network, and are the airline closest geographically in Europe to Mexico.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:53 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
Mex, lax and hav coming soon. Don't ask where I heard it.


= Really? What are the sources? Why would they fly to LAX? Same with HAV. I could see them flying to MEX, as they have a very strong European network, and are the airline closest geographically in Europe to Mexico.7

Saludos,
Alex
HAV and MEX are sure according to my source. Maybe already 2020.
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:48 pm

airbazar wrote:
efpmeneses wrote:
This was Portugalia network at the beggining of june of 2007, before TAP aquisition.

The image is from Portugalia inflight magazine from june 2007Image

So 6 cities in 2007. I was off by 1 but there you have it. I don't remember if TAP themselves served any cities in addition to those shown in that map but like I said they have been serving those cities for a very long time via PGA.
No... In Spain TAP only had flights to Madrid and Barcelona with their own metal...

If you check the things on seats available instead of frequencies, maybe you will notice why I say it was a big grow (although not huge) comparing to 2005 or 2007

Enviado do meu ASUS_X017DA através do Tapatalk
 
airbazar
Posts: 10083
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:05 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
HAV and MEX are sure according to my source. Maybe already 2020.

That makes some sense. Those are huge destinations to/from Spain, and like I said TAP is trying to position itself as a viable alternative to IB for the entire Iberian peninsula. whether they'll be profitable routes for TAP that's a different story.
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:16 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
Mex, lax and hav coming soon. Don't ask where I heard it.


= Really? What are the sources? Why would they fly to LAX? Same with HAV. I could see them flying to MEX, as they have a very strong European network, and are the airline closest geographically in Europe to Mexico.7

Saludos,
Alex
HAV and MEX are sure according to my source. Maybe already 2020.


TP should not open new long-haul routes in 2020 as it's time to consolidate the rapid expansion over the past few years.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:57 pm

aviationlover7 wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:

= Really? What are the sources? Why would they fly to LAX? Same with HAV. I could see them flying to MEX, as they have a very strong European network, and are the airline closest geographically in Europe to Mexico.7

Saludos,
Alex
HAV and MEX are sure according to my source. Maybe already 2020.


TP should not open new long-haul routes in 2020 as it's time to consolidate the rapid expansion over the past few years.

The biggest problem for TP is LIS airport,
 
SCQ83
Topic Author
Posts: 5665
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: TAP announces LIS-SCQ, drops LIS/OPO-LCY, LIS-BSL/CGN/STR, OPO-BCN/LYS, doubles OPO-MAD

Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:54 pm

LIS-SCQ is finally starting June 5, 2020 and not for 2020/21 winter season as previously stated.

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