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aemoreira1981
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:26 pm

queb wrote:
Jean Leloup wrote:
Interesting that the SEA aircraft will rest overnight in Seattle. I would have thought - just my opinion - that with a brand new type you would want to schedule it to be 'home' overnight in case there was any issue they would want to look into.

JL


the first 6 months they will initially deployed from Montreal and Toronto on routes such as to Ottawa, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton and New York – La Guardia

Sending them to LGA and YOW means one could train as many as 6-8 pairs of crews a day. So basically, this will mean the end of the line for the mainline A319s, likely heading to scrap before their next heavy check is due?
 
YYZORD
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:49 pm

Could YYZ-SNA/ONT be other possibilities for the A220? What other routes can AC pull off from YYZ with the A220? Can SLC come back or any other routes?
 
rrbsztk
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:56 pm

I don't know if 5 by May is exactly right but definitely fits with their report filing (canada version of form 10k) of 1 in 2019 and 14 in 2020.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:42 pm

My apologies. I realize on rereading the internal memo going on and on about "The Inaugural", I realize now they were referring to the inaugural of the two new routes, YYZ-SJC-YYZ and YUL-SEA-YUL and not the airframe. It should have dawned on me as it was from "marketing" and not operations. (The two are rarely in sync).

Still, I would be very surprised if the actual airframe inaugural was much before these this date. But, as accurately noted above, the actual type inaugural has not yet been announced.

A few points though ....

As I said earlier, Transport Canada has not set out training standards yet. Normally, for a type to type (internal) transfer there are hour and leg requirements which varies from where the candiate came. On this type though, it is likely there will be new Captain Candidates in the left seat and New Hires in the right seat. Transport may come down hard and require extra training. Right up to the point of requiring actual in aircraft training for those never having flown a jet transport before. (Yes, those days are coming back! But even in the past, I don't recall any issues as this would be the same as the E175/E190 intro).

Normally on a narrow body aircraft, getting "legs in" is not a problem requiring advanced route planning. Unlike say the 787 which was doing a lot of Rapidairs as requirements were being met.

Remember, this will be the first type inaugural since the MAX issues. Transport may go nuts!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
BA
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:11 pm

SEA has seen some nice additions by Star Alliance lately, SQ from SIN, LH from MUC, and now AC from YUL.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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DBCoop3r
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:38 am

BA wrote:
How is AC doing on YYZ-SEA?

93% LF. I know load isnt everything, but they have no direct flight competition on that route, amazingly. So their yields cant be too bad.
 
BA
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:18 am

DBCoop3r wrote:
BA wrote:
How is AC doing on YYZ-SEA?

93% LF. I know load isnt everything, but they have no direct flight competition on that route, amazingly. So their yields cant be too bad.


Thanks, those are pretty strong loads. I know they have 2 flights a day in the summer and 1 flight daily the rest of the year.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
TObound
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:22 am

9252fly wrote:
TObound wrote:
Whiteguy wrote:
And both rear lavs are buried in the tail like the MAX, sucks for crew and pax....


Is the a map of the 223 to confirm anywhere?


https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... fleet.html


Thanks for that.

I gotta say. 30" seat pitch on mainline. I'm starting to wonder what the product differentiation is between AC mainline and Rouge.

Would one less row of Y and 31" pitch throughout Y have hurt their business case that much? They'd still have been carrying 12 more seats than the 319. As it stands, this looks like a cramped replacement for the 320. Just 9 seats less than that platform.
 
FlyHPN
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:43 am

TObound wrote:
9252fly wrote:
TObound wrote:

Is the a map of the 223 to confirm anywhere?


https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... fleet.html


Thanks for that.

I gotta say. 30" seat pitch on mainline. I'm starting to wonder what the product differentiation is between AC mainline and Rouge.

Would one less row of Y and 31" pitch throughout Y have hurt their business case that much? They'd still have been carrying 12 more seats than the 319. As it stands, this looks like a cramped replacement for the 320. Just 9 seats less than that platform.

Sorry to go off topic, but I was thinking the same thing when I saw the 30” config on Hawaiian’s new 321neo’s. No wonder WN is making out so well.
 
questions
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:11 am

Kudos to AC for using a full wall between F/J and the main cabin. The visual cabin dividers being used by others, e.g., DL, are cheap, tacky and awful and degrade the F/J cabin experience.

I also like the gray/charcoal color palette. It’s much better than the overused blue.

A very sharp aircraft.
 
TObound
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:42 am

FlyHPN wrote:
TObound wrote:
9252fly wrote:


Thanks for that.

I gotta say. 30" seat pitch on mainline. I'm starting to wonder what the product differentiation is between AC mainline and Rouge.

Would one less row of Y and 31" pitch throughout Y have hurt their business case that much? They'd still have been carrying 12 more seats than the 319. As it stands, this looks like a cramped replacement for the 320. Just 9 seats less than that platform.

Sorry to go off topic, but I was thinking the same thing when I saw the 30” config on Hawaiian’s new 321neo’s. No wonder WN is making out so well.


When you have 46% market share in your home market, like AC does, you don't have to worry much about the plebs choosing competitors. If we had the option of Southwest or JetBlue, AC might actually give up that extra inch.

17/30 is the new AC standard. 17" wide seat. 30" pitch. 777, 787, 7M8, "upgraded" 333, and now 223. I'm grateful everyday that Bombardier limited the ability of airlines to make this airplane more miserable, because AC world definitely have taken then up on the offer!
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:01 am

RJ masquerading as a mainline aircraft. Three-abreast on one side with tiny armrests and very narrow seats. Way too uncomfortable for YUL-SEA.
 
Noise
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:31 am

usdcaguy wrote:
RJ masquerading as a mainline aircraft. Three-abreast on one side with tiny armrests and very narrow seats. Way too uncomfortable for YUL-SEA.


Seriously?
 
AC77X
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:07 am

usdcaguy wrote:
RJ masquerading as a mainline aircraft. Three-abreast on one side with tiny armrests and very narrow seats. Way too uncomfortable for YUL-SEA.

Uncomfortable? Very narrow seats?

You are being sarcastic right?
 
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hic787
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:28 am

usdcaguy wrote:
RJ masquerading as a mainline aircraft. Three-abreast on one side with tiny armrests and very narrow seats. Way too uncomfortable for YUL-SEA.


You've never been on one, have you?
 
runway23
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:39 am

usdcaguy wrote:
RJ masquerading as a mainline aircraft. Three-abreast on one side with tiny armrests and very narrow seats. Way too uncomfortable for YUL-SEA.


You should fly one first. The seats are the widest on a narrowbody aircraft. And it's in no way a RJ - unless you think a plane that seats nearly 150 is a regional jet ?
 
TObound
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:44 am

usdcaguy wrote:
RJ masquerading as a mainline aircraft. Three-abreast on one side with tiny armrests and very narrow seats. Way too uncomfortable for YUL-SEA.


The economy seats are wider than any other aircraft in AC's fleet. More cabin bin space per pax too.

Physically, the 223 is about as long as an A320.

DL and B6 and AC will be flying plenty of them to your namesake airport (DCA) in a few years. You should try out the "oversized" RJ. Might surprise you.
 
timf
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:24 pm

TObound wrote:
IFE the same as DL?

Yes and no. The Panasonic eX1 system they are using is a traditional wired system which is found on many of Delta's aircraft. However, Delta's A220s use a wireless seatback system designed by Gogo which is significantly lighter yet provides the customer with a similar experience.
 
TObound
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:29 pm

timf wrote:
TObound wrote:
IFE the same as DL?

Yes and no. The Panasonic eX1 system they are using is a traditional wired system which is found on many of Delta's aircraft. However, Delta's A220s use a wireless seatback system designed by Gogo which is significantly lighter yet provides the customer with a similar experience.


Ugggh. So 30" seat pitch and the boxes on the floor?

AC really is contemptuous of Y pax.
 
lostsound
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:41 pm

Daydreaming for YVR-BUR but it's never gonna happen lol
Kudos AC looks like the comfortable cabins they've been installing on the rest of their fleet.
Last edited by lostsound on Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:41 pm

Had a feeling YUL-SEA was coming with the A220, great to see that it will be the inaugural for AC to boot! Can't wait to see it next year, congrats to all involved.

*I would also note that for how much misguided effort Boeing put into killing the C Series, Montreal-Seattle as an inaugural route for the same type on a premier North American carrier is quite the coincidence.
Last edited by gunsontheroof on Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
LawAndOrder
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:44 pm

questions wrote:
Kudos to AC for using a full wall between F/J and the main cabin. The visual cabin dividers being used by others, e.g., DL, are cheap, tacky and awful and degrade the F/J cabin experience.

I also like the gray/charcoal color palette. It’s much better than the overused blue.

A very sharp aircraft.


The wall is probably why it’s majority 30 inch in back. When I’m in first I could care less what’s behind me. I don’t need a wall to make me feel exclusive.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:14 pm

longhauler wrote:
My apologies. I realize on rereading the internal memo going on and on about "The Inaugural", I realize now they were referring to the inaugural of the two new routes, YYZ-SJC-YYZ and YUL-SEA-YUL and not the airframe. It should have dawned on me as it was from "marketing" and not operations. (The two are rarely in sync).

Still, I would be very surprised if the actual airframe inaugural was much before these this date. But, as accurately noted above, the actual type inaugural has not yet been announced.

A few points though ....

As I said earlier, Transport Canada has not set out training standards yet. Normally, for a type to type (internal) transfer there are hour and leg requirements which varies from where the candiate came. On this type though, it is likely there will be new Captain Candidates in the left seat and New Hires in the right seat. Transport may come down hard and require extra training. Right up to the point of requiring actual in aircraft training for those never having flown a jet transport before. (Yes, those days are coming back! But even in the past, I don't recall any issues as this would be the same as the E175/E190 intro).

Normally on a narrow body aircraft, getting "legs in" is not a problem requiring advanced route planning. Unlike say the 787 which was doing a lot of Rapidairs as requirements were being met.

Remember, this will be the first type inaugural since the MAX issues. Transport may go nuts!


Thanks for the clarification. One thing the 223 has going for it in Canada, is that TC already know the aircraft very, very well during the years of CSeries certification.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
queb wrote:
Jean Leloup wrote:
Interesting that the SEA aircraft will rest overnight in Seattle. I would have thought - just my opinion - that with a brand new type you would want to schedule it to be 'home' overnight in case there was any issue they would want to look into.

JL


the first 6 months they will initially deployed from Montreal and Toronto on routes such as to Ottawa, Winnipeg, Calgary, Edmonton and New York – La Guardia

Sending them to LGA and YOW means one could train as many as 6-8 pairs of crews a day. So basically, this will mean the end of the line for the mainline A319s, likely heading to scrap before their next heavy check is due?


I think the 319s at mainline will still be around for quite some time. The E90s are the first to go...but I'd imagine even those retirements are delayed until at least the MAX gets back in the air.
 
aeropix
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:53 pm

TObound wrote:
45 mins to deplane 130+ pax, clean and fuel the aircraft and then emplane that many and depart, seems tight. it just seems to be a tight turn after that long a flight. .


When I worked at Southwest in the 1990's, over half of our flights were scheduled 15 minute turns, with 137 seat 737-300's. I was working at LAX so it was a "termination" station with all pax off / all new pax on (almost never had any through customers).

Fast forward 25 years and with all the new computer technology and a relatively smaller airplane than the 737, I'm confident this can be done.
 
YYZORD
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:12 pm

YVR-SNA/ONT can happen along with YYZ-SNA

lostsound wrote:
Daydreaming for YVR-BUR but it's never gonna happen lol
Kudos AC looks like the comfortable cabins they've been installing on the rest of their fleet.
 
TObound
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:41 pm

YYZORD wrote:
YVR-SNA/ONT can happen along with YYZ-SNA

lostsound wrote:
Daydreaming for YVR-BUR but it's never gonna happen lol
Kudos AC looks like the comfortable cabins they've been installing on the rest of their fleet.


SNA has a case with Disney nearby. What's the case for ONT for Canadians?
 
lostsound
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:10 pm

YYZORD wrote:
YVR-SNA/ONT can happen along with YYZ-SNA

lostsound wrote:
Daydreaming for YVR-BUR but it's never gonna happen lol
Kudos AC looks like the comfortable cabins they've been installing on the rest of their fleet.


SNA for sure but I think BUR would take precedence over ONT for the large film industry in Vancouver & Toronto. Not sure what's near Ontario,CA for tourism.
 
YYZORD
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:09 pm

YVR-ONT can be used for connections, YVR wants to be an asian gateway like SFO and LAX. Also I'm sure many in Inland Empire want a direct connection with Canada than always driving to LAX. Also ONT can be a cheaper alternative to go to SoCal than flying into LAX.

TObound wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
YVR-SNA/ONT can happen along with YYZ-SNA

lostsound wrote:
Daydreaming for YVR-BUR but it's never gonna happen lol
Kudos AC looks like the comfortable cabins they've been installing on the rest of their fleet.


SNA has a case with Disney nearby. What's the case for ONT for Canadians?
 
Leslieville
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:21 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
RJ masquerading as a mainline aircraft. Three-abreast on one side with tiny armrests and very narrow seats. Way too uncomfortable for YUL-SEA.


I've flown on this aircraft (Swiss A223) and it's noticably more roomy and comfortable in Y than the standard B737/A320 fare. The seats are noticeably wider and I have no recollection about the arm rests being any different. Add to this the wider aisle, and it couldn't feel more different than an RJ if it tried.

Obvious troll is obvious?
 
kimimm19
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:29 pm

Leslieville wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
RJ masquerading as a mainline aircraft. Three-abreast on one side with tiny armrests and very narrow seats. Way too uncomfortable for YUL-SEA.


I've flown on this aircraft (Swiss A223) and it's noticably more roomy and comfortable in Y than the standard B737/A320 fare. The seats are noticeably wider and I have no recollection about the arm rests being any different. Add to this the wider aisle, and it couldn't feel more different than an RJ if it tried.

Obvious troll is obvious?


Agreed, as well as the larger windows, storage bins, and (at least on Swiss) a lighter cabin.
 
ElmerJrG
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:48 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
Leslieville wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
RJ masquerading as a mainline aircraft. Three-abreast on one side with tiny armrests and very narrow seats. Way too uncomfortable for YUL-SEA.


I've flown on this aircraft (Swiss A223) and it's noticably more roomy and comfortable in Y than the standard B737/A320 fare. The seats are noticeably wider and I have no recollection about the arm rests being any different. Add to this the wider aisle, and it couldn't feel more different than an RJ if it tried.

Obvious troll is obvious?


Agreed, as well as the larger windows, storage bins, and (at least on Swiss) a lighter cabin.


Likely he's never flown on an A220 before. If that's the case then the DC-9 / MD-80 / 717 were all RJs masquerading as mainline aircraft as well. Spoken like those armchair passengers who keeps complaining about TATL flying on narrowbodies.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:26 pm

Here's an A220 interview with AC's VP of Network Planning (in French only): http://www.lesailesduquebec.com/lutilis ... ir-canada/

Pretty much the article stipulates:
-14 223s delivered in 2020 with 10 or 11 delivered by the end of Q2.
-Half or about 7 frames by year's end will be directly replacing E90s. So that leaves room for about 4 more transcon length route announcements. I would imagine YUL-SAN will be one of these at some point.
-The additional 7 aircraft could also be for frequency increases on existing routes.
-Some 319s/320s sticking around for 'several more years'.
-Some E90s will be replaced by 319s/320s that in-turn will be replaced by the MAX (someday!)
-5 new CR9s getting delivered in 2020.
-No plans at this point to use the A220 on transatlantic routes.
 
TObound
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:55 pm

lostsound wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
YVR-SNA/ONT can happen along with YYZ-SNA

lostsound wrote:
Daydreaming for YVR-BUR but it's never gonna happen lol
Kudos AC looks like the comfortable cabins they've been installing on the rest of their fleet.


SNA for sure but I think BUR would take precedence over ONT for the large film industry in Vancouver & Toronto. Not sure what's near Ontario,CA for tourism.


I would argue that LGB would be better than BUR, SNA or ONT. Would AC be allowed to launch there from pre-cleared airports?
 
Noise
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:49 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
RJ masquerading as a mainline aircraft. Three-abreast on one side with tiny armrests and very narrow seats. Way too uncomfortable for YUL-SEA.


This guy is probably trolling.
 
yulexpansion
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:01 pm

gunsontheroof wrote:
Had a feeling YUL-SEA was coming with the A220, great to see that it will be the inaugural for AC to boot! Can't wait to see it next year, congrats to all involved.

*I would also note that for how much misguided effort Boeing put into killing the C Series, Montreal-Seattle as an inaugural route for the same type on a premier North American carrier is quite the coincidence.


You could also argue this is a jab at B by flying the program they tried to kill straight into hometurf.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:24 pm

TObound wrote:
45 min turn in SJC. Isn't that tight?

Not really... WN turns a full 800 in 35 minutes.
 
9252fly
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:40 pm

A quick AC fleet comparison in seating capacity differences. A319 - 14J/106Y, A223 - 12J/125Y, A320 - 14J/132Y. Interesting to see how close in capacity the A223 is to the A320.
 
TObound
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:56 pm

9252fly wrote:
A quick AC fleet comparison in seating capacity differences. A319 - 14J/106Y, A223 - 12J/125Y, A320 - 14J/132Y. Interesting to see how close in capacity the A223 is to the A320.


Entirely thanks to the decision to drop Y pitch to 30" from the 32" on the Airbus fleets. If Y was 31", it would be 12J/120Y, which would be 12 more than a 319 and 14 less than a 320. Instead, the large cut in pitch let them position the 223 at just 9 seats below a 320 and a massive 17 seats above a 319.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:11 pm

yulexpansion wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
Had a feeling YUL-SEA was coming with the A220, great to see that it will be the inaugural for AC to boot! Can't wait to see it next year, congrats to all involved.

*I would also note that for how much misguided effort Boeing put into killing the C Series, Montreal-Seattle as an inaugural route for the same type on a premier North American carrier is quite the coincidence.


You could also argue this is a jab at B by flying the program they tried to kill straight into hometurf.


From its Bombardier's home turf, no less. That was what I was getting at. Probably not the intent, the A220 is the right plane for this route. If they could fill an A319/A320 on YUL-SEA, they'd be flying it already.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
questions
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:11 am

LawAndOrder wrote:
questions wrote:
Kudos to AC for using a full wall between F/J and the main cabin. The visual cabin dividers being used by others, e.g., DL, are cheap, tacky and awful and degrade the F/J cabin experience.

I also like the gray/charcoal color palette. It’s much better than the overused blue.

A very sharp aircraft.


The wall is probably why it’s majority 30 inch in back. When I’m in first I could care less what’s behind me. I don’t need a wall to make me feel exclusive.


Unless you’re in that last row of F and the economy people in the row behind you:
    - Put their bare feet on the armrest (using it as a foot rest)
    - Grab the back of your seat and jostle it as they are trying to get to the aisle
    - Put their face between the seats and ask about the meal you’re eating

(All things that have happened to me.)

The extra inches required to insert the wall is significantly less than the space required for an additional inch of seat pitch for 25-30 rows of Y seating. Bean counters chasing growth through cramming additional rows into windowless portions of the fuselage are the reasons for 30” pitch.





Insert
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:34 am

Dominion301 wrote:
-Half or about 7 frames by year's end will be directly replacing E90s. So that leaves room for about 4 more transcon length route announcements. I would imagine YUL-SAN will be


Besides the ones already discussed in an earlier thread, recently it was mentioned that YYZ-YCD might be converted over to the 223:

Beyond that, Nanaimo is the “perfect” market for the Airbus A220, said Ferio Pugliese, senior vice-president of Air Canada Express and government relations, speaking to business people during an event hosted by the Greater Nanaimo Chamber of Commerce on Wednesday.

“Very likely, you’ll see this aircraft here,” Pugliese said, adding that the A220 is a good fit for Nanaimo because its speed, range and efficiency allows Air Canada to operate in smaller markets more regularly on a year-round basis.


https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/busines ... nada-says/

I also recall YYJ being mentioned a few years ago for YYZ and making YUL year-round. Both are currently served by RV, the latter only seasonal.
 
TObound
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:55 pm

It's incredible that the mainline 223 will have one more seat than the Rouge 319. This is what has me questioning what the point of Rouge is. Maybe AC can replace Rouge 319s with mainline 223s in due course and wind down Rouge.
 
Thomaas
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Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:05 pm

TObound wrote:
It's incredible that the mainline 223 will have one more seat than the Rouge 319. This is what has me questioning what the point of Rouge is. Maybe AC can replace Rouge 319s with mainline 223s in due course and wind down Rouge.


I think that over time you'll see Rouge moving its narrow body fleet to A320/A321 sized aircraft, given that AC can operate the mainline product at lower cost in that size category. AC can hand down quite a few A320s once the 737MAX deliveries resume. They have already been opportunistically purchasing second hand A321s for Rouge on the second hand market.
 
TObound
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:21 pm

Thomaas wrote:
TObound wrote:
It's incredible that the mainline 223 will have one more seat than the Rouge 319. This is what has me questioning what the point of Rouge is. Maybe AC can replace Rouge 319s with mainline 223s in due course and wind down Rouge.


I think that over time you'll see Rouge moving its narrow body fleet to A320/A321 sized aircraft, given that AC can operate the mainline product at lower cost in that size category. AC can hand down quite a few A320s once the 737MAX deliveries resume. They have already been opportunistically purchasing second hand A321s for Rouge on the second hand market.


Again though. What's the point? AC can put on the same density at mainline apparently.
 
JamesCousins
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:26 pm

TObound wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
TObound wrote:
45 min turn in SJC. Isn't that tight?


It's not a hub, so it shouldn't face the kinds of delays a large hub airport can see. Also they don't have to worry about passengers making connections.


Sure. But 45 mins to deplane 130+ pax, clean and fuel the aircraft and then emplane that many and depart, seems tight. And some pax will have connections on the YYZ side. I'm no expert, but it just seems to be a tight turn after that long a flight. Will be interesting to see how OTP is after launch.


Someone clearly hasn't flown Ryanair, I've seen them turn a 189 seat 737 in half that :lol:
Q400, A320-200, A321-200, 737-500, 737-800, 747-400, 757-200, 787-9 // FCA, TOM, TUI, MON, MT, BA, VS, DL, BE, X9, OLY // Upcoming: W6 A320, W6 A321, EVA 77W, VS 787-9m AS A320, VS A35K, KLM E190, KLM 738, LS 737
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:35 pm

Thomaas wrote:
I think that over time you'll see Rouge moving its narrow body fleet to A320/A321 sized aircraft, given that AC can operate the mainline product at lower cost in that size category. AC can hand down quite a few A320s once the 737MAX deliveries resume. They have already been opportunistically purchasing second hand A321s for Rouge on the second hand market.


They actually bought brand new 321s for Rouge.

Any clarity on when the actual first flight of the 223 will be? None of them have been loaded into the schedule yet, right?
 
ElmerJrG
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:37 am

Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:57 pm

Looks like the A220 will start flying domestic first between YUL-YYC & YUL-YWG taking over some A319 routes as expected. Of course it can change anytime especially with the MAX8 grounding but a good pointer in case anyone wants to fly the first commercial flights. No surprise that this will show up on the random rapidair subs as well.

Effective February 1

AC396 - YUL - YYC
AC318 - YUL - YYC

Effective April 5

AC371 - YUL - YWG
AC373 - YUL - YWG

* Edit, looks like YUL-YEG will getting it as well effective March 5..
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:22 pm

questions wrote:
The extra inches required to insert the wall is significantly less than the space required for an additional inch of seat pitch for 25-30 rows of Y seating.


Thing is the position of the seats at the exit row kind of dictate where you can allocate inches. So the extra space required for the full bulkhead would have to be taken from only the rows in front of the exit.
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:30 pm

Thomaas wrote:
TObound wrote:
It's incredible that the mainline 223 will have one more seat than the Rouge 319. This is what has me questioning what the point of Rouge is. Maybe AC can replace Rouge 319s with mainline 223s in due course and wind down Rouge.


I think that over time you'll see Rouge moving its narrow body fleet to A320/A321 sized aircraft, given that AC can operate the mainline product at lower cost in that size category. AC can hand down quite a few A320s once the 737MAX deliveries resume. They have already been opportunistically purchasing second hand A321s for Rouge on the second hand market.


Definitely. Bought 4x A321s from WOW back in the fall, and have sourced 2-4 more from leasing companies following their liquidation. Add this to the 5 new ones they leased in a few years back. Also adding at least 3 A320s on lease ex-Interjet. From there as MAXes replace mainline A320/A321s those aircraft will be transitioned over to Rouge and A319s will depart as quickly as the pilot agreement allows.
 
TObound
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 12:54 am

Re: Air Canada A220 launch - Interior Picture and New routes

Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:49 pm

wrongwayup wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
TObound wrote:
It's incredible that the mainline 223 will have one more seat than the Rouge 319. This is what has me questioning what the point of Rouge is. Maybe AC can replace Rouge 319s with mainline 223s in due course and wind down Rouge.


I think that over time you'll see Rouge moving its narrow body fleet to A320/A321 sized aircraft, given that AC can operate the mainline product at lower cost in that size category. AC can hand down quite a few A320s once the 737MAX deliveries resume. They have already been opportunistically purchasing second hand A321s for Rouge on the second hand market.


Definitely. Bought 4x A321s from WOW back in the fall, and have sourced 2-4 more from leasing companies following their liquidation. Add this to the 5 new ones they leased in a few years back. Also adding at least 3 A320s on lease ex-Interjet. From there as MAXes replace mainline A320/A321s those aircraft will be transitioned over to Rouge and A319s will depart as quickly as the pilot agreement allows.


So what's Rouge's limit on narrowbodies and widebodies now? According to Wiki, AC has 41 320s and 15 321s. I am guessing Rouge is going to be maxed out at fleet size pretty quickly in the coming 2 years. Even if only 75% of those mainline retirements go to Rouge and most of that replaces existing aircraft at Rouge, that would still be incredible growth.

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