Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

PlaneMad134 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:44 am

Delta are supposed to be announcing new routes today, Ive heard that Gatwick and Manchester will be among these new routes.

Eirules · Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:31 am

Well clearly the Gatwick routes are being launched to 1. put even more pressure on Norwegian & 2. to get in ahead of JetBlue and hope the DL/VS brand recognition is strong enough to deter customers migrating to B6.

Where are they getting the other LHR slot from?

I half thought they might announce DTW- DUB given the rumours that EI are going to launch it next summer and they got into MSP this summer

775899 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:06 am

Is this just going to be focused on BOS/JFK-UK or will it include other things too?

bcn92 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:52 am

Only this routes from BOS? No more routes from BOS will be open next S20?

VS4ever · Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:55 am

Eirules wrote:
Well clearly the Gatwick routes are being launched to 1. put even more pressure on Norwegian & 2. to get in ahead of JetBlue and hope the DL/VS brand recognition is strong enough to deter customers migrating to B6.

Where are they getting the other LHR slot from?

I half thought they might announce DTW- DUB given the rumours that EI are going to launch it next summer and they got into MSP this summer

Agree on #2, less so on number 1. DY have carved out an excellent niche on BOS-LGW, and whether they are making money or not, #2 is leading DL to add capacity on the route as there is a market there for sure, I don’t believe this is DL taking on DY, that’s BA’s thing, but they are doing what they have done on BOS-DUB and BOS-LIS, which is add capacity in seasonal and relatively small amounts (757’s) to support their pax base and routes that can absorb it. With MAN-BOS, VS was doing a horrid job and had the wrong aircraft, so a daily 757 will be much better suited (not sure if it’s only seasonal yet), the VS 330 it’s replacing can go off and do something much better 2-3 weekly.

hibtastic · Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:58 am

DL’s BOS-EDI on the 757 has had some decent load factors since it’s launch earlier this summer so makes sense to build on that.

enilria · Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:28 am

With Norwegian dropping DUB to the USA I expect much less growth there by other carriers.

codc10 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:35 am

BOS-LGW/MAN; JFK-LGW to head off JetBlue. Daytime JFK-LHR.

jumbojet · Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:54 am

codc10 wrote:
BOS-LGW/MAN; JFK-LGW to head off JetBlue. Daytime JFK-LHR.

so I shouldn't get my hopes up for a an announcement that they are buying some ULH 350's and flying JFK-SIN non stop?

tlecam · Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:57 am

jumbojet wrote:
codc10 wrote:
BOS-LGW/MAN; JFK-LGW to head off JetBlue. Daytime JFK-LHR.

so I shouldn't get my hopes up for a an announcement that they are buying some ULH 350's and flying JFK-SIN non stop?

Or that they’re launching AUS- LHR, CDG, AMS and ICN.

775899 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:59 am

tlecam wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
codc10 wrote:
BOS-LGW/MAN; JFK-LGW to head off JetBlue. Daytime JFK-LHR.

so I shouldn't get my hopes up for a an announcement that they are buying some ULH 350's and flying JFK-SIN non stop?

Or that they’re launching AUS- LHR, CDG, AMS and ICN.

I do wonder if there will be any new CDG/AMS routes launched in this.

SteveXC500 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:03 pm

Official announcement of MSP-PVG? It was said last year they would be looking to start in 2020. Could this finally be the official statement?

codc10 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:21 pm

jumbojet wrote:
codc10 wrote:
BOS-LGW/MAN; JFK-LGW to head off JetBlue. Daytime JFK-LHR.

so I shouldn't get my hopes up for a an announcement that they are buying some ULH 350's and flying JFK-SIN non stop?

I don’t think Delta wants to get into any ULH flying... DL has so much margin discipline and high-cost operations like that are just not profitable enough.

flymco753 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:24 pm

Eirules wrote:
I half thought they might announce DTW- DUB given the rumours that EI are going to launch it next summer and they got into MSP this summer

DTW shouldn't be part of any adds this year.

tphuang · Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:41 pm

codc10 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
codc10 wrote:
BOS-LGW/MAN; JFK-LGW to head off JetBlue. Daytime JFK-LHR.

so I shouldn't get my hopes up for a an announcement that they are buying some ULH 350's and flying JFK-SIN non stop?

I don’t think Delta wants to get into any ULH flying... DL has so much margin discipline and high-cost operations like that are just not profitable enough.

that might be the case for now, but these medium haul TATL out of JFK/BOS are going to get a lot less profitable once B6 jumps in. It wasn't that far back when transcon market was a golden goose and now they are quite bloody.

from what I've read on Boston thread, seems like this is just announcing start date for LGW flights + changing BOS-MAN from VS to DL. Seems like the only new addition is the daytime JFK-LHR flight.

I would imagine BA has to make some addition at some point also.

codc10 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:52 pm

tphuang wrote:
codc10 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

so I shouldn't get my hopes up for a an announcement that they are buying some ULH 350's and flying JFK-SIN non stop?

I don’t think Delta wants to get into any ULH flying... DL has so much margin discipline and high-cost operations like that are just not profitable enough.

that might be the case for now, but these medium haul TATL out of JFK/BOS are going to get a lot less profitable once B6 jumps in. It wasn't that far back when transcon market was a golden goose and now they are quite bloody.

from what I've read on Boston thread, seems like this is just announcing start date for LGW flights + changing BOS-MAN from VS to DL. Seems like the only new addition is the daytime JFK-LHR flight.

I would imagine BA has to make some addition at some point also.

I think it’s just as much a strategic move, in an attempt to undermine a B6 TATL expansion.

behramjee · Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:01 pm

Just to clear the air, on a year round net profit/loss basis, all of Norwegian’s trans-Atlantic flights make a net loss as do all their EU-Asia bound flights. Again I’m referring to net loss and not operating loss as few of their wide body routes do actually cover their operating / variable costs of flying.

MIflyer12 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:03 pm

codc10 wrote:
I think it’s just as much a strategic move, in an attempt to undermine a B6 TATL expansion.

I expect so. I further suspect that DL has a war room where they're evaluating every potential TATL 321LR/XLR B6 destination from BOS - and seeing if they want to start it first, to suck all of the oxygen out of the room, as it were. Sure, B6 will eventually fly BOS-LON, anyway, but with four operating carriers on the city pair already they're not going to make it easy.

LHUSA · Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:14 pm

I wonder if DTW-MUC will be extended to year-round as a reaction to LH's seasonal service?

x1234 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:21 pm

I've heard its BOS-MAN/LGW, another JFK-LHR frequency and the launch of DTW-DUB.

Boeing74741R · Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:32 pm

Nothing on DL's site, but VS have just released this...

https://corporate.virginatlantic.com/gb ... eases.html

*MAN-BOS to switch from VS to DL and upgraded to daily, albeit still summer-only
*DL to operate the previously-announced LGW-BOS route
*VS to operate the previously-announced LGW-JFK route
*DL to launch daytime eastbound JFK-LHR flight to complement VS' own daytime eastbound JFK-LHR flight

Dldiamondboy · Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:32 pm

Delta to purchase 10 A350-900 ULR's and launch direct service from ATL to SIN and HKG!! :lol:

westgate · Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:35 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
codc10 wrote:
I think it’s just as much a strategic move, in an attempt to undermine a B6 TATL expansion.

I expect so. I further suspect that DL has a war room where they're evaluating every potential TATL 321LR/XLR B6 destination from BOS - and seeing if they want to start it first, to suck all of the oxygen out of the room, as it were. Sure, B6 will eventually fly BOS-LON, anyway, but with four operating carriers on the city pair already they're not going to make it easy.

BOS is seeing such ridiculously high demand for international flights at the moment, especially trans-atlantic, that there certainly will be a place for B6 in all of that, especially as they are the largest and 'hometown' airline. LHR is the 3rd busiest destination out of BOS behind ATL and ORD and ahead of LAX and SFO. LAX currently has 5 carriers so I can't see how B6 being the 4th carrier to LON is going to be all that difficult for them considering that LON is already the larger market, and that their new service will likely stimulate even more traffic on that route.

rajincajun01 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:37 pm

RDU/AUS-AMS :duck:

flymco753 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:49 pm

MCO-CDG?

Polot · Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:50 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
Official announcement of MSP-PVG? It was said last year they would be looking to start in 2020. Could this finally be the official statement?

DL still needs to reapply for the frequencies (although there is a good chance they can get them as there are plenty open after AA returned theirs).

EK77WNH · Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:00 pm

I think swapping metal in Boston was smart. I never got the sense that Virgin built much of a following at Logan, and the whole thing becomes better by virtue of DL flying these routes. So I guess that leaves Virgin with the lone flight to LHR...back to the future.

GCT64 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:09 pm

EK77WNH wrote:
I think swapping metal in Boston was smart. I never got the sense that Virgin built much of a following at Logan, and the whole thing becomes better by virtue of DL flying these routes. So I guess that leaves Virgin with the lone flight to LHR...back to the future.

As a regular London-BOS commuter, I'd be happy for DL to take over all the BOS-UK routes from VS. DL is a much better experience in Y.

775899 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:19 pm

Sounds like this is only about finalizing BOS/JFK-UK flights and the rest of DL’s 2020 TATL schedule will come out later?

CaliguyNYC · Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:34 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
Nothing on DL's site, but VS have just released this...

https://corporate.virginatlantic.com/gb ... eases.html

*MAN-BOS to switch from VS to DL and upgraded to daily, albeit still summer-only
*DL to operate the previously-announced LGW-BOS route
*VS to operate the previously-announced LGW-JFK route
*DL to launch daytime eastbound JFK-LHR flight to complement VS' own daytime eastbound JFK-LHR flight

Great expansion. I only have two small issues with the DL/VS partnership - why don't DM/PM get access to the club house in Manchester - why only LHR & LGW. Makes no sense. Also not getting extra legroom seats for free on VS is a major downgrade vs flying Delta metal. 25% of the time I fly coach the way back from LHR (a day flight). Just flew VS and their normal seats are tight. I wish they would just align offerings. Also if you fly DL metal that is VS coded you can't get upgraded to comfort - why? DL and VS should make things less complicated not more. Otherwise I love that DL and VS are so close.

User001 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:37 pm

Great expansion. I only have two small issues with the DL/VS partnership - why don't DM/PM get access to the club house in Manchester

Genuinely not being sarcastic here but there is no clubhouse at Manchester (yet), so, that will be why. There is a clubhouse slated to open next year however.

carljanderson · Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:39 pm

https://news.delta.com/delta-virgin-atl ... nd-uk-2020

LAX to get VS A350
DL LGW-BOS Daily 757

Eirules · Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:41 pm

What route(s) or frequencies are being reduced for the VS LHR additions?

panamair · Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:46 pm

The Delta news release also provides more info such as schedules and aircraft types. Both BOS-LGW and BOS-MAN will be with the 75S - the international 757s equipped with 16 flat-bed D1 seats up front; VS will use the A332 on JFK-LGW. Also interesting is that the new DL LHR-JFK flight will be at 0730 out of LHR, arriving at JFK at 1030, which will be the earliest of all carriers....

https://news.delta.com/delta-virgin-atl ... nd-uk-2020

SeanM1997 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:00 pm

Eirules wrote:
What route(s) or frequencies are being reduced for the VS LHR additions?

4x SEA/3x LAX will replace 7x JFK frequency (weekly flights)

DL daytime flight seems to replace 1x daily Flybe flight between LHR-EDI based on timings but that could change

jumbojet · Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:04 pm

panamair wrote:
The Delta news release also provides more info such as schedules and aircraft types. Both BOS-LGW and BOS-MAN will be with the 75S - the international 757s equipped with 16 flat-bed D1 seats up front; VS will use the A332 on JFK-LGW. Also interesting is that the new DL LHR-JFK flight will be at 0730 out of LHR, arriving at JFK at 1030, which will be the earliest of all carriers....

https://news.delta.com/delta-virgin-atl ... nd-uk-2020

Here is a quote from the article you posted:

Delta is boosting its transatlantic schedule between London-Heathrow and its coastal hubs in Boston and New York-JFK next summer, adding 15 percent capacity compared to 2019. Alongside joint venture partner Virgin Atlantic, the two airlines will increase capacity across the Atlantic by nearly 10,000 seats per week compared to this year, offering customers unrivalled customer experience and more choice than ever before.

Thats a lot of extra capacity, 10,000 extra seats PER WEEK!!!

CaliguyNYC · Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:08 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
Eirules wrote:
What route(s) or frequencies are being reduced for the VS LHR additions?

4x SEA/3x LAX will replace 7x JFK frequency (weekly flights)

DL daytime flight seems to replace 1x daily Flybe flight between LHR-EDI based on timings but that could change

Which VS flight is being cut between LHR-JFK? I wish Delta operated more afternoon departures from EU. I understand why they want their planes back but as long as DL flyers get more benefits flying DL metal, we need options. Having DL fly mostly morning departures is a bit annoying. I mean a 7:30am LHR departure is super early. IF DL cancels its 5:30pm departure I will lose my mind

kavok · Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:21 pm

Where are the LHR slots coming from? Is DL/VS dropping LHR flights to other locations to make these adds happen?

PlaneMad134 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:23 pm

Is this all the Uk changes or will there be more?

AirFiero · Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:28 pm

rajincajun01 wrote:
RDU/AUS-AMS

Or SJC-AMS/KIX? I’m still waiting for DL to announce *anything* new after their “focus city” statement.

CaliguyNYC · Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:30 pm

I don't know what DL gains by having another daytime JFK-LHR flight and a 7:30am return from LHR to JFK IF they have to cut another JFK-LHR flight to fund LAX/SEA. Looking at their schedule, I can't see an obvious flight to cut JFK-LHR-JFK. The only one would be VS 9am LHR-JFK.

steex · Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:37 pm

AirFiero wrote:
rajincajun01 wrote:
RDU/AUS-AMS

Or SJC-AMS/KIX? I’m still waiting for DL to announce *anything* new after their “focus city” statement.

No announcement, but DL is adding a second DTW-SJC-DTW rotation several days per week next summer. I expect SJC growth to look like that (as it has the last few years), not a bunch of new destinations.

flflyer · Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:46 pm

Happy about the daytime DL from JFK-LHR, any idea on A/C on that route? VS 346 a little dated, but service is good.

775899 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:46 pm

steex wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
rajincajun01 wrote:
RDU/AUS-AMS

Or SJC-AMS/KIX? I’m still waiting for DL to announce *anything* new after their “focus city” statement.

No announcement, but DL is adding a second DTW-SJC-DTW rotation several days per week next summer. I expect SJC growth to look like that (as it has the last few years), not a bunch of new destinations.

True, but sooner or later, they will need to launch CDG or AMS from the likes of AUS, BNA and SJC if they want to become the premier network carrier in those markets. I have a feeling at least one of those markets will see a flight announced here soon.

AirFiero · Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:08 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
steex wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

Or SJC-AMS/KIX? I’m still waiting for DL to announce *anything* new after their “focus city” statement.

No announcement, but DL is adding a second DTW-SJC-DTW rotation several days per week next summer. I expect SJC growth to look like that (as it has the last few years), not a bunch of new destinations.

True, but sooner or later, they will need to launch CDG or AMS from the likes of AUS, BNA and SJC if they want to become the premier network carrier in those markets. I have a feeling at least one of those markets will see a flight announced here soon.

Definitely. If they want to complete for lucrative business travelers in Silicon Valley, they will need more non stop markets for business travelers. For DL, I could see AUS, CVG, RDU, AMS/CDG, and Asia like KIX. Maybe additional flights to hubs, like DTW as someone just said. Any other ideas?

Cory6188 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:17 pm

The timing for the new daytime JFK-LHR flight seems strange to me, not leaving until 10:30 am. Your day is shot anyway (not like many people are going to go to work for an hour at 7 am before going to the airport), and you don't land at LHR until 10:25 pm. UA's EWR-LHR flight leaves at 8:30 am, and VS's day flight leaves at 8:15 am, landing at 8:10 pm, so you can get into central London at a reasonable hour.

Maybe DL is planning on getting pax on connections into JFK to make the 10:30 am flight?

OA412 · Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:21 pm

Please keep this thread on topic, which is DL/VS expansion across the Atlantic, not which airlines are/are not profitable on certain domestic legs from BOS. Thank you!

jayunited · Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:23 pm

kavok wrote:
Where are the LHR slots coming from? Is DL/VS dropping LHR flights to other locations to make these adds happen?

That is question because in DL's press release their JFK-LHR service is going 3 x daily year around not just during IATA summer. DL's investment in VS is truly paying off here DL was able to get its hands on a lucrative year around slot, whereas UA who has been searching for a year around slot for DEN-LHR can't find one. Very smart move by DL investing in VS and forming a JV with VS.

Later on we will find out what frequency or route was cut to make room for DL's 3x daily JFK-LHR.

jayunited · Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:29 pm

Cory6188 wrote:
The timing for the new daytime JFK-LHR flight seems strange to me, not leaving until 10:30 am. Your day is shot anyway (not like many people are going to go to work for an hour at 7 am before going to the airport), and you don't land at LHR until 10:25 pm. UA's EWR-LHR flight leaves at 8:30 am, and VS's day flight leaves at 8:15 am, landing at 8:10 pm, so you can get into central London at a reasonable hour.

Maybe DL is planning on getting pax on connections into JFK to make the 10:30 am flight?

The timing is a bit strange DL's arrival time is only an hour before LHR curfew which starts at 23:30. Any lengthy delay out of JFK whether for maintenance or any other reason will result in DL's daytime flight being delay till 5, 6, or 7pm. DL should adjust their daytime schedule by an hour this way they would have a two hour window instead of one hour window before curfew.

BroadwayLimited · Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:31 pm

jayunited wrote:
kavok wrote:
Where are the LHR slots coming from? Is DL/VS dropping LHR flights to other locations to make these adds happen?

Later on we will find out what frequency or route was cut to make room for DL's 3x daily JFK-LHR.

Read up thread. No cuts. One additional frequency for 2020.

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