Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
BNAMealer
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Delta international announcement later today

Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:37 pm

AirFiero wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
steex wrote:

No announcement, but DL is adding a second DTW-SJC-DTW rotation several days per week next summer. I expect SJC growth to look like that (as it has the last few years), not a bunch of new destinations.


True, but sooner or later, they will need to launch CDG or AMS from the likes of AUS, BNA and SJC if they want to become the premier network carrier in those markets. I have a feeling at least one of those markets will see a flight announced here soon.


Definitely. If they want to complete for lucrative business travelers in Silicon Valley, they will need more non stop markets for business travelers. For DL, I could see AUS, CVG, RDU, AMS/CDG, and Asia like KIX. Maybe additional flights to hubs, like DTW as someone just said. Any other ideas?


I don’t think they need domestic p2p, just increased/upgauged flights to hubs and TATL. I’m not really a fan of DL’s p2p flying strategy (outside of TATL).

I will be curious to see if any of those markets land AMS/CDG this year.
 
User avatar
Web500sjc
Posts: 861
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:23 am

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:37 pm

jayunited wrote:
Cory6188 wrote:
The timing for the new daytime JFK-LHR flight seems strange to me, not leaving until 10:30 am. Your day is shot anyway (not like many people are going to go to work for an hour at 7 am before going to the airport), and you don't land at LHR until 10:25 pm. UA's EWR-LHR flight leaves at 8:30 am, and VS's day flight leaves at 8:15 am, landing at 8:10 pm, so you can get into central London at a reasonable hour.

Maybe DL is planning on getting pax on connections into JFK to make the 10:30 am flight?


The timing is a bit strange DL's arrival time is only an hour before LHR curfew which starts at 23:30. Any lengthy delay out of JFK whether for maintenance or any other reason will result in DL's daytime flight being delay till 5, 6, or 7pm. DL should adjust their daytime schedule by an hour this way they would have a two hour window instead of one hour window before curfew.



DL and VS have a JV for flights between the US and UK, so in essence DL already has an 8:15am departure to LHR. Putting this departure at 10:30 makes it more accessible for people that don’t want to wake up too early in Manhattan or want to make early morning connections from the east coast and compliments the early VS departure.
Boiler Up!
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1240
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:38 pm

Cory6188 wrote:
The timing for the new daytime JFK-LHR flight seems strange to me, not leaving until 10:30 am. Your day is shot anyway (not like many people are going to go to work for an hour at 7 am before going to the airport), and you don't land at LHR until 10:25 pm. UA's EWR-LHR flight leaves at 8:30 am, and VS's day flight leaves at 8:15 am, landing at 8:10 pm, so you can get into central London at a reasonable hour.

Maybe DL is planning on getting pax on connections into JFK to make the 10:30 am flight?


It is to compete with BA/AA that offer similar 2 morning flights. These flights are very popular with J class business pax and less popular with Y tourists. Basically people are just going to London to sleep for their AM meeting instead of having to take a red eye. A 10:30am departure means you leave your Manhattan hotel/apt at 7:45/8am instead of 5:45/6am for a 8:15am flight. That is a big difference. Either way you are just going to your hotel room in London to sleep so what difference is arriving at 8pm or 10pm. Also this allows VS to have more J pax from JFK connecting to Lagos, JNB, DEL on the 8am pushing O&D to the 10:30am. Not to mention that a 10:30am JFK departure would connect to DL's morning JFK arrivals from the immediate region (like CLT, RDU etc). Those flights had to be mostly O&D now they can offer LHR as a connection.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:14 pm

So the total number of JFK-LHR flights on DL/VS is remaining constant at 8 - they're just moving one frequency from the afternoon to the morning and having DL take it over.

It's not crystal clear from the press release, but I assume the 3x-4x weekly LAX/SEA split will use the same aircraft (789), while one of the existing 2x daily LAX-LHR flights moves to the 35K?

The two LHR flights to watch in the coming months, in my opinion, are SLC-LHR and the 2nd daily DTW-LHR. In a previous announcement regarding the routes that would be served by the refurbished 764 fleet, PDX-LHR, MSP-LHR, DTW-LHR, ATL-LHR, JFK-LHR, and BOS-LHR were all included. That conspicuously left SLC as the only DL U.S.-LHR route excluded from the upgraded product offering. I'm not sure if that means VS might take over SLC-LHR (probably a 789 route), or perhaps I'm reading into it too much and SLC-LHR will soldier on as the only 763 route left at LHR (or perhaps only one of the two DTW-LHR frequencies will get the refurbished 764). We'll see!
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10176
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Delta international announcement later today

Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:25 pm

Eirules wrote:
Well clearly the Gatwick routes are being launched to 1. put even more pressure on Norwegian & 2. to get in ahead of JetBlue and hope the DL/VS brand recognition is strong enough to deter customers migrating to B6.

I think they're being launched to better compete with BA/AA first and foremost.
BOS already sees up to 8 daily flights to LON, and NYC sees up to 29(?) daily. I don't think 1 more daily from DL is going to scare away B6 or kill DY. That's just a.net rational :)
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2400
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Delta international announcement later today

Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:16 pm

airbazar wrote:
Eirules wrote:
Well clearly the Gatwick routes are being launched to 1. put even more pressure on Norwegian & 2. to get in ahead of JetBlue and hope the DL/VS brand recognition is strong enough to deter customers migrating to B6.

I think they're being launched to better compete with BA/AA first and foremost.
BOS already sees up to 8 daily flights to LON, and NYC sees up to 29(?) daily. I don't think 1 more daily from DL is going to scare away B6 or kill DY. That's just a.net rational :)


No, its not. Go back to the timing of the DL announcement for LGW. It was right after serious leaks/discussions about B6's expansion (of course the signaling had been clear for some time). Subsequently, B6 ordered A321LRs and announced London service. The US destinations are not coincidence and are the two main battlegrounds for B6 and DL.

While I don't think DL is trying to kill DY, I do think they see a benefit to increased pressure. DL can afford to lose money on LGW . DY, on the other hand, is struggling already. Bleeding DY more makes a demise more likely. I'm not sure that's the end result for DY nevertheless.
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:30 pm

jayunited wrote:
Cory6188 wrote:
The timing for the new daytime JFK-LHR flight seems strange to me, not leaving until 10:30 am. Your day is shot anyway (not like many people are going to go to work for an hour at 7 am before going to the airport), and you don't land at LHR until 10:25 pm. UA's EWR-LHR flight leaves at 8:30 am, and VS's day flight leaves at 8:15 am, landing at 8:10 pm, so you can get into central London at a reasonable hour.

Maybe DL is planning on getting pax on connections into JFK to make the 10:30 am flight?


The timing is a bit strange DL's arrival time is only an hour before LHR curfew which starts at 23:30. Any lengthy delay out of JFK whether for maintenance or any other reason will result in DL's daytime flight being delay till 5, 6, or 7pm. DL should adjust their daytime schedule by an hour this way they would have a two hour window instead of one hour window before curfew.

I guess DL wants to get a good amount of connecting passengers, but I agree given the weather-related delays you often get at JFK, a good number of those flights will probably be significantly delayed because of the curfew. A 9:30a departure would’ve been wiser.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
MonAmQB
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:16 pm

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:48 pm

Cory6188 wrote:
The timing for the new daytime JFK-LHR flight seems strange to me, not leaving until 10:30 am. Your day is shot anyway (not like many people are going to go to work for an hour at 7 am before going to the airport), and you don't land at LHR until 10:25 pm. UA's EWR-LHR flight leaves at 8:30 am, and VS's day flight leaves at 8:15 am, landing at 8:10 pm, so you can get into central London at a reasonable hour.

Maybe DL is planning on getting pax on connections into JFK to make the 10:30 am flight?

I think that is the rationale behind it. For example, the earliest RDU-JFK lands at 8:56am, perfect timing to connect to the new JFK-LHR flight.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10176
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Delta international announcement later today

Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:58 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
No, its not. Go back to the timing of the DL announcement for LGW. It was right after serious leaks/discussions about B6's expansion (of course the signaling had been clear for some time). Subsequently, B6 ordered A321LRs and announced London service. The US destinations are not coincidence and are the two main battlegrounds for B6 and DL.

Whatever. People would have had the same exact conclusion regardless of timing because they had already made up their mind. B6 flying to Europe was the worst kept secret. B6 ordered the LR years ago in the form of options to convert from the base A321NEO. They didn't just order it now. You can say that they firmed it this year. The 2 destinations are the 2 DL hubs with the most demand to London by a long margin. Where else would they add the flights? There is no battle between B6 and DL. It's pure a.net fantasy. The markets at BOS and JFK are large enough for both airlines to co-exist, as they have for years now.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:07 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Cory6188 wrote:
The timing for the new daytime JFK-LHR flight seems strange to me, not leaving until 10:30 am. Your day is shot anyway (not like many people are going to go to work for an hour at 7 am before going to the airport), and you don't land at LHR until 10:25 pm. UA's EWR-LHR flight leaves at 8:30 am, and VS's day flight leaves at 8:15 am, landing at 8:10 pm, so you can get into central London at a reasonable hour.

Maybe DL is planning on getting pax on connections into JFK to make the 10:30 am flight?


It is to compete with BA/AA that offer similar 2 morning flights. These flights are very popular with J class business pax and less popular with Y tourists. Basically people are just going to London to sleep for their AM meeting instead of having to take a red eye. A 10:30am departure means you leave your Manhattan hotel/apt at 7:45/8am instead of 5:45/6am for a 8:15am flight. That is a big difference. Either way you are just going to your hotel room in London to sleep so what difference is arriving at 8pm or 10pm. Also this allows VS to have more J pax from JFK connecting to Lagos, JNB, DEL on the 8am pushing O&D to the 10:30am. Not to mention that a 10:30am JFK departure would connect to DL's morning JFK arrivals from the immediate region (like CLT, RDU etc). Those flights had to be mostly O&D now they can offer LHR as a connection.


Not arguing your points on the timing but how is getting in two hours later not a big deal but leaving NYC 2 hours later is? How long does it take to get to central London or wherever? I mean getting into your hotel at 10pm is probably better than after midnight, especially when you have an early meeting no? Just being devils advocate
 
jayunited
Posts: 2952
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Delta international announcement later today

Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:21 pm

BroadwayLimited wrote:
Read up thread. No cuts. One additional frequency for 2020.



Perhaps there will be no cuts in DL/VS USA-LHR flights if that is the case what flight then did VS cut to make room for DL's 3x daily year round flight? LHR didn't just increase the number of slots so DL could go 3x daily that slot came from somewhere. What I and others are asking is what frequency or route was cut to make room for this additional flight.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2400
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Delta international announcement later today

Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:37 pm

jayunited wrote:
BroadwayLimited wrote:
Read up thread. No cuts. One additional frequency for 2020.



Perhaps there will be no cuts in DL/VS USA-LHR flights if that is the case what flight then did VS cut to make room for DL's 3x daily year round flight? LHR didn't just increase the number of slots so DL could go 3x daily that slot came from somewhere. What I and others are asking is what frequency or route was cut to make room for this additional flight.


He told you to read up thread because SeanM already posted where it appears to come from. Flybe flight to EDI.
 
f4f3a
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:07 am

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:55 am

Virgin are part of worldwide by easyJet . Could we see delta joining this ?
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1537
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:06 pm

f4f3a wrote:
Virgin are part of worldwide by easyJet . Could we see delta joining this ?


Maybe if we’re talking UK domestic/Irish connections out of LGW, but that would be it. DL would rather send the continental transfers over AMS/CDG to support AF/KL flying.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1137
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:16 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
f4f3a wrote:
Virgin are part of worldwide by easyJet . Could we see delta joining this ?


Maybe if we’re talking UK domestic/Irish connections out of LGW, but that would be it. DL would rather send the continental transfers over AMS/CDG to support AF/KL flying.


I think it is worth remembering that the purpose of VS acquiring FlyBe was to provide a feed under the VS branding and banner.

Who knows what form and scale this might take, but in the short run this is likely to be focused at running transfer passengers over MAN.
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1537
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:33 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:
f4f3a wrote:
Virgin are part of worldwide by easyJet . Could we see delta joining this ?


Maybe if we’re talking UK domestic/Irish connections out of LGW, but that would be it. DL would rather send the continental transfers over AMS/CDG to support AF/KL flying.


I think it is worth remembering that the purpose of VS acquiring FlyBe was to provide a feed under the VS branding and banner.

Who knows what form and scale this might take, but in the short run this is likely to be focused at running transfer passengers over MAN.


Good point. It will be interesting to see what form this takes in the future.
 
iflyalexair
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:54 am

Re: Delta international announcement later today

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:38 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
I’m not really a fan of DL’s p2p flying strategy (outside of TATL).


Why not?
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1137
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Updated: DL, VS boost summer flying between U.S. and U.K. in 2020

Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:17 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
usdcaguy wrote:

Maybe if we’re talking UK domestic/Irish connections out of LGW, but that would be it. DL would rather send the continental transfers over AMS/CDG to support AF/KL flying.


I think it is worth remembering that the purpose of VS acquiring FlyBe was to provide a feed under the VS branding and banner.

Who knows what form and scale this might take, but in the short run this is likely to be focused at running transfer passengers over MAN.


Good point. It will be interesting to see what form this takes in the future.


Agreed - my speculation (I have no inside knowledge) is that DL/VS would like the VS base at MAN to be to Skyteam alliance and it’s TATL JV, what EI and DUB is for the BA/AA TATL JV and Oneworld alliance.
 
panamair
Posts: 4342
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta international announcement later today

Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:46 pm

Looks like the new flights have all been loaded and available for booking.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Which VS flight is being cut between LHR-JFK? I wish Delta operated more afternoon departures from EU. I understand why they want their planes back but as long as DL flyers get more benefits flying DL metal, we need options. Having DL fly mostly morning departures is a bit annoying. I mean a 7:30am LHR departure is super early. IF DL cancels its 5:30pm departure I will lose my mind


Looks like VS is dropping the 130pm departure out of LHR that arrives JFK at 425pm. On the return out of JFK, it looks like it’s the 830pm out of JFK arriving LHR at 845am being cut.

So LHR departures will be:
LHR 0730 JFK 1030 DL
LHR 0900 JFK 1145 VS
LHR 1030 JFK 1330 DL
LHR 1150 JFK 1450 VS
LHR 1430 JFK 1715 VS
LHR 1545 JFK 1845 VS
LHR 1730 JFK 2037 DL
LHR 2010 JFK 2305 VS

JFK-LHR will be:
JFK 0815 LHR 2010 VS
JFK 1015 LHR 2225 DL
JFK 1800 LHR 0625+ VS
JFK 1900 LHR 0720+ VS
JFK 1930 LHR 0750+ DL
JFK 2100 LHR 0915+ VS
JFK 2200 LHR 1015+ VS
JFK 2300 LHR 1110+ DL
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1240
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Delta international announcement later today

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:17 pm

panamair wrote:
Looks like the new flights have all been loaded and available for booking.

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Which VS flight is being cut between LHR-JFK? I wish Delta operated more afternoon departures from EU. I understand why they want their planes back but as long as DL flyers get more benefits flying DL metal, we need options. Having DL fly mostly morning departures is a bit annoying. I mean a 7:30am LHR departure is super early. IF DL cancels its 5:30pm departure I will lose my mind


Looks like VS is dropping the 130pm departure out of LHR that arrives JFK at 425pm. On the return out of JFK, it looks like it’s the 830pm out of JFK arriving LHR at 845am being cut.

So LHR departures will be:
LHR 0730 JFK 1030 DL
LHR 0900 JFK 1145 VS
LHR 1030 JFK 1330 DL
LHR 1150 JFK 1450 VS
LHR 1430 JFK 1715 VS
LHR 1545 JFK 1845 VS
LHR 1730 JFK 2037 DL
LHR 2010 JFK 2305 VS

JFK-LHR will be:
JFK 0815 LHR 2010 VS
JFK 1015 LHR 2225 DL
JFK 1800 LHR 0625+ VS
JFK 1900 LHR 0720+ VS
JFK 1930 LHR 0750+ DL
JFK 2100 LHR 0915+ VS
JFK 2200 LHR 1015+ VS
JFK 2300 LHR 1110+ DL


Not a bad outcome. I would have preferred the 8:30pm to stay and the 9pm JFK-LHR cut because the 8:30 connects best with their BOM flight and 9pm does not connect - but no biggie. At least DL kept their 5:30pm flight. Do you know if the EWR flight time changes? Right now it doesn’t connect to BOM and EWR has the most demand to BOM (much higher than JFK). Right now you cannot fly one stop to BOM from EWR on DL/VS/skyteam.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos