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Max Q
Topic Author
Posts: 8409
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:19 am

Can’t post it but I see Dl will be operating a
757 service from BOS to LGW in the fall


Smart move
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
APYu
Posts: 515
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:27 am

Max Q wrote:
Can’t post it but I see Dl will be operating a
757 service from BOS to LGW in the fall


Smart move

Fall? Its starting in May, so will probably be gone by the fall
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
jamsco99
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:02 am

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:30 am

Well it's now been confirmed which metal will be doing the flights.
Virgin will do the JFK rotation and delta will do the Boston one
 
77H
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:38 am

Max Q wrote:
Can’t post it but I see Dl will be operating a
757 service from BOS to LGW in the fall


Smart move


Out of genuine benign curiosity, why is it a smart move? I would assume they are flying into LGW, for the same reason most airlines fly into LGW... They couldn’t get a slot at LHR.. Though maybe you have knowledge that it was a purposeful add, unrelated to LHR?

My understanding is when the BDA II agreement dissolved and allowed for the more than 2 US carriers to operate into LHR, all the remaining US carriers, including DL, hastily abandoned LGW for LHR.. I can’t see why they would re-enter the market if they had the choice. Opening a new station is a costly and time consuming endeavor. Doesn’t seem worth it if they had the option to serve LHR.

77H
 
jamsco99
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:02 am

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:40 am

77H wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Can’t post it but I see Dl will be operating a
757 service from BOS to LGW in the fall


Smart move


Out of genuine benign curiosity, why is it a smart move? I would assume they are flying into LGW, for the same reason most airlines fly into LGW... They couldn’t get a slot at LHR.. Though maybe you have knowledge that it was a purposeful add, unrelated to LHR?

My understanding is when the BDA II agreement dissolved and allowed for the more than 2 US carriers to operate into LHR, all the remaining US carriers, including DL, hastily abandoned LGW for LHR.. I can’t see why they would re-enter the market if they had the choice. Opening a new station is a costly and time consuming endeavor. Doesn’t seem worth it if they had the option to serve LHR.

77H


Its discussed alot on the other thread, the conclusion seems to be that they prempted jet blue doing bos to lgw
 
77H
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:48 am

jamsco99 wrote:
77H wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Can’t post it but I see Dl will be operating a
757 service from BOS to LGW in the fall


Smart move


Out of genuine benign curiosity, why is it a smart move? I would assume they are flying into LGW, for the same reason most airlines fly into LGW... They couldn’t get a slot at LHR.. Though maybe you have knowledge that it was a purposeful add, unrelated to LHR?

My understanding is when the BDA II agreement dissolved and allowed for the more than 2 US carriers to operate into LHR, all the remaining US carriers, including DL, hastily abandoned LGW for LHR.. I can’t see why they would re-enter the market if they had the choice. Opening a new station is a costly and time consuming endeavor. Doesn’t seem worth it if they had the option to serve LHR.

77H


Its discussed alot on the other thread, the conclusion seems to be that they prempted jet blue doing bos to lgw


Apologies, I’m not familiar with what thread you are referring to. I assume either DL’s network and fleet thread or B6’s LON service announcement thread ? I am aware of the threads, but have not kept up to date on either. Thank you for the insight.

Sounds like the legacy carriers view B6 entering the TATL market as a reasonable threat, enough to preempt them from LON’s secondary international gateway.

77H
 
Andy33
Posts: 2567
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:49 am

77H wrote:

Opening a new station is a costly and time consuming endeavor.
77H

Not if an airline you effectively control has one of its bases at the same airport so you can use the same infrastructure and ground handling contractors, though. Unless Delta has some arcane union agreement that says ground staff have to be directly employed by them even at a location that has one (seasonal) flight a day of course.
 
77H
Posts: 1570
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:03 am

Andy33 wrote:
77H wrote:

Opening a new station is a costly and time consuming endeavor.
77H

Not if an airline you effectively control has one of its bases at the same airport so you can use the same infrastructure and ground handling contractors, though. Unless Delta has some arcane union agreement that says ground staff have to be directly employed by them even at a location that has one (seasonal) flight a day of course.


Hypothetical arcane union agreements aside, DL has different infrastructure (IT-wise) than VS that all needs to be set up, they need to draft service agreements with the ground handlers, train employees handling the DL flight on DL SoP.

Up until about a year ago my office was kiddy corner to the office of a Director in IT at the airline I work. She used to give me the 411 on new stations coming online months before they were officially announced. I bring this up to highlight the fact that it can take months to set up a new line station, even if you have established partners there. She told me it is a very intensive and costly process. With all due respect, I’ll take her word for it as setting up new stations (from an IT perspective) is part her responsibilities.

77H
 
panamair
Posts: 4324
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:08 am

Being discussed in this thread started yesterday:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429287
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4813
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:08 am

Sounds a lot like she's trying to overstate the importance of her position tbh.
Delta are handled by third parties in Europe with only a small handful of their own staff at the larger stations. Virgin will be looking after the overwing with whoever currently handles VS at Gatters the below wing, it's not rocket science.
This lady was likely talking about in-house US stations rather than outsourced overseas ones, there's something amiss if she's not.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8012
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:02 am

77H wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Can’t post it but I see Dl will be operating a
757 service from BOS to LGW in the fall


Smart move


Out of genuine benign curiosity, why is it a smart move? I would assume they are flying into LGW, for the same reason most airlines fly into LGW... They couldn’t get a slot at LHR.. Though maybe you have knowledge that it was a purposeful add, unrelated to LHR?



Yes, I expect LHR slots are rare and costly but there's nothing inherently wrong with LGW (so long as you're not AA relying on connections to the BA network). You recognize that Norwegian moves about as many passengers LGW-JFK as BA does LHR-JFK, right? http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traf ... Y_2019.pdf
 
airbazar
Posts: 10156
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:13 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
77H wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Can’t post it but I see Dl will be operating a
757 service from BOS to LGW in the fall

Smart move


Out of genuine benign curiosity, why is it a smart move? I would assume they are flying into LGW, for the same reason most airlines fly into LGW... They couldn’t get a slot at LHR.. Though maybe you have knowledge that it was a purposeful add, unrelated to LHR?



Yes, I expect LHR slots are rare and costly but there's nothing inherently wrong with LGW (so long as you're not AA relying on connections to the BA network). You recognize that Norwegian moves about as many passengers LGW-JFK as BA does LHR-JFK, right? http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traf ... Y_2019.pdf


Indeed there's nothing inherently wrong with it if being profitable is not your main goal :)
 
Andy33
Posts: 2567
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:16 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
77H wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Can’t post it but I see Dl will be operating a
757 service from BOS to LGW in the fall


Smart move


Out of genuine benign curiosity, why is it a smart move? I would assume they are flying into LGW, for the same reason most airlines fly into LGW... They couldn’t get a slot at LHR.. Though maybe you have knowledge that it was a purposeful add, unrelated to LHR?



Yes, I expect LHR slots are rare and costly but there's nothing inherently wrong with LGW (so long as you're not AA relying on connections to the BA network). You recognize that Norwegian moves about as many passengers LGW-JFK as BA does LHR-JFK, right? http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traf ... Y_2019.pdf

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that Port Authority summary for both BA and Norwegian show passenger count on their flights to JFK to/from everywhere in the world rather than individual airports?. Now even BA has flights from LGW and LCY mixed in, but for Norwegian it would include Barcelona, Madrid, Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Oslo, as well as London?
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1988
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:17 am

Not convinced it is smart. Guessing DL is trying to blunt B6's entry into the TATL market (even though B6's airport for London service has not yet been confirmed). There is demand for LGW to serve the region south of London, which is wealthy, and a way to grab some additional market share, but if NAX folds, I can see DL and VS removing these routes quickly. JFK to LGW is all about competing with NAX and I'm not sure it is worth it.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8339
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:28 am

skipness1E wrote:
Sounds a lot like she's trying to overstate the importance of her position tbh.
Delta are handled by third parties in Europe with only a small handful of their own staff at the larger stations. Virgin will be looking after the overwing with whoever currently handles VS at Gatters the below wing, it's not rocket science.
This lady was likely talking about in-house US stations rather than outsourced overseas ones, there's something amiss if she's not.


If she is overstating it then you are understating it, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Whichever ground handler is contracted must be trained on the airlines operating system and their SOPs. An obvious example is who opens the doors? At some airlines the flight attendant must open the door and at others the ground agent must do so. Very, very few ground handlers train their staff to handle all airlines, especially at a large airport like LGW, because of the adminstrative hassle and cost of doing so.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10322
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:33 am

So no one thinks that there is a market of pax who would prefer to travel via LGW versus LHR, if there are flights to NYC from both airports everyone would prefer to use LHR?
Ok
 
mutu
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:04 am

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:33 am

[/quote]

Yes, I expect LHR slots are rare and costly but there's nothing inherently wrong with LGW (so long as you're not AA relying on connections to the BA network). You recognize that Norwegian moves about as many passengers LGW-JFK as BA does LHR-JFK, right? http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traf ... Y_2019.pdf[/quote]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that Port Authority summary for both BA and Norwegian show passenger count on their flights to JFK to/from everywhere in the world rather than individual airports?. Now even BA has flights from LGW and LCY mixed in, but for Norwegian it would include Barcelona, Madrid, Paris, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Stockholm, Oslo, as well as London?[/quote]
Absolutely correct. The data is not LON NYC alone. I might have imagined anyone with a modest amount of aviation knowledge would spot this given the scale of BAs operationbetween the 2 cities....but I was wrong.
 
FlyHPN
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:15 pm

Re: Delta to Gatwick again

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:38 am

There is already a thread for this: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429287

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