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LAXintl
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United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:47 pm

United announced it will begin newly awarded service between four of its U.S. hubs and Tokyo's Haneda International Airport on March 28, 2020.

United will begin operating nonstop service between Chicago, Los Angeles, New York/Newark and Washington, D.C. and Haneda, subject to government approval. United currently offers daily nonstop service between San Francisco and Haneda. Tickets fornew Haneda flights will be available for purchase starting August 17.

https://hub.united.com/united-adds-serv ... 55994.html

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BIG caveat being able to obtain these desired slot times. Airlines have till October to work with local Japanese authorities to secure timings.

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UPlog
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:55 pm

Anybody know what happens with UA's ground staff and inflight base at NRT? Are employees being offered transfers to HND, or will ANA handle everything as it does for the current SFO flight? Also, I understand AFA agreement does not allow additional HND satellite inflight base. So what happens with them?
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LAXintl
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:58 pm

For the record here is the planned NRT service for Summer 2020 as well. IAD and ORD flights dropped as they now will op at HND instead.


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YoungDon
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:16 pm

Interesting that UA is using a 77W on SFO-NRT but a 789 on SFO-HND. I guess DEN and IAH traffic will remain at NRT until UA gets more slots.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:17 pm

UPlog wrote:
Anybody know what happens with UA's ground staff and inflight base at NRT? Are employees being offered transfers to HND, or will ANA handle everything as it does for the current SFO flight? Also, I understand AFA agreement does not allow additional HND satellite inflight base. So what happens with them?

Probably nothing. NRT is only losing two flights, ORD/IAD. They will probably work out an agreement with AFA to allow cobasing NRT/HND.
 
Judge1310
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:21 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Anybody know what happens with UA's ground staff and inflight base at NRT? Are employees being offered transfers to HND, or will ANA handle everything as it does for the current SFO flight? Also, I understand AFA agreement does not allow additional HND satellite inflight base. So what happens with them?

Probably nothing. NRT is only losing two flights, ORD/IAD. They will probably work out an agreement with AFA to allow cobasing NRT/HND.



Not even necessary for all that complexity -- the HND flights can be flown by crews from the respective US American domiciles.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:33 pm

Current FA contract does not allow HND to become a co-terminal of NRT. They could, however, designate HND as a satellite base, but that would open it to transfers fro all FAs, no matter their current base which defeats some of the cultural and language benefits of having the Tokyo base. Though its unlikely UA wants so many flights full of US-based crews in expensive downtown Tokyo hotels.
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janders
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:35 pm

Lets see if they actually get the slot timing even close to what they wish for. Entire published schedule subject change.
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ericm2031
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:38 pm

YoungDon wrote:
Interesting that UA is using a 77W on SFO-NRT but a 789 on SFO-HND. I guess DEN and IAH traffic will remain at NRT until UA gets more slots.


I was just thinking that. If demand to HND is so high, they could have upgauged SFO-HND a long time ago. Now to keep all their exisiting West Coast capacity to HND/NRT plus add a 787-10 on LAX-HND to the mix, that's a lot of capacity...and they have all the ANA flights in there too. Hope the market can absorb it all. DL may end up with the leading position at HND, but with no partner on the other end, they are going to have an uphill battle to fill those flights with almost all O&D compared to AA/JL and UA/NH.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:43 pm

United has been flying SFO-NRT and SFO-HND side by side for a few years now so they should have a good idea of what aircraft is optimal for which one.

Larger capacity likely works for NRT as there are all those beyond Asian JV markets it can feed. HND is more local and Japanese domestic connections.
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UPlog
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:20 pm

I think HND will function much more as Tokyo O&D market while NRT will serve as beyond connecting point for UA/NH JV across Asia.
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jayunited
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:53 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Anybody know what happens with UA's ground staff and inflight base at NRT? Are employees being offered transfers to HND, or will ANA handle everything as it does for the current SFO flight? Also, I understand AFA agreement does not allow additional HND satellite inflight base. So what happens with them?

Probably nothing. NRT is only losing two flights, ORD/IAD. They will probably work out an agreement with AFA to allow cobasing NRT/HND.



Not even necessary for all that complexity -- the HND flights can be flown by crews from the respective US American domiciles.


Forgive my ignorance but I truly do not know the answer to this question I'm about to ask.
Because of the contract NRT crews can't fly HND flights which leaves US based FA's. With so many new HND routes are some of the FA positions reserved for language qualified FA's or will UA staff these flights purely based off senority? And if UA does hold some positions for language qualified FA's how many positions are held?
 
theasianguy
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:58 pm

So UA will end up having
SFO, LAX, and EWR with service to both HND and NRT
IAH, DEN, HNL, GUM to NRT only
ORD, IAD to HND only

That's a total of 14 daily flights to Japan.

It's interesting how close the timings are for cities with both NRT and HND service. Granted, the flights serve different purpose: HND works well for Tokyo O&D and smaller Japanese cities, and NRT will serve connections to ITM/NGO/FUK/CTS in Japan and SE Asia and China.

The loss of the ORD-NRT flight is not a big issue since connecting passengers can just take the similarly timed ANA flight. However, the loss of the IAD-NRT flight may require double connecting for markets like SHE/WUH/CAN/MNL/KUL/CGK to IAD. ANA's NRT-IAD flight leaves in the morning well before the afternoon NRT bank.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:01 pm

theasianguy wrote:
So UA will end up having
SFO, LAX, and EWR with service to both HND and NRT
IAH, DEN, HNL, GUM to NRT only
ORD, IAD to HND only

That's a total of 14 daily flights to Japan.

It's interesting how close the timings are for cities with both NRT and HND service. Granted, the flights serve different purpose: HND works well for Tokyo O&D and smaller Japanese cities, and NRT will serve connections to ITM/NGO/FUK/CTS in Japan and SE Asia and China.

The loss of the ORD-NRT flight is not a big issue since connecting passengers can just take the similarly timed ANA flight. However, the loss of the IAD-NRT flight may require double connecting for markets like SHE/WUH/CAN/MNL/KUL/CGK to IAD. ANA's NRT-IAD flight leaves in the morning well before the afternoon NRT bank.


I expect either NH will move their NRT-IAH flight to HND or on the next go around, UA will get the opportunity to move theirs to HND. Where the JV has multiple flights to Japan, Id imagine theyd want service to both airports.
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jbs2886
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:07 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
Interesting that UA is using a 77W on SFO-NRT bjut a 789 on SFO-HND. I guess DEN and IAH traffic will remain at NRT until UA gets more slots.


I was just thinking that. If demand to HND is so high, they could have upgauged SFO-HND a long time ago. Now to keep all their exisiting West Coast capacity to HND/NRT plus add a 787-10 on LAX-HND to the mix, that's a lot of capacity...and they have all the ANA flights in there too. Hope the market can absorb it all. DL may end up with the leading position at HND, but with no partner on the other end, they are going to have an uphill battle to fill those flights with almost all O&D compared to AA/JL and UA/NH.


It is interesting that the smallest aircraft to HND is from SFO.
 
theasianguy
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:25 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
Interesting that UA is using a 77W on SFO-NRT bjut a 789 on SFO-HND. I guess DEN and IAH traffic will remain at NRT until UA gets more slots.


I was just thinking that. If demand to HND is so high, they could have upgauged SFO-HND a long time ago. Now to keep all their exisiting West Coast capacity to HND/NRT plus add a 787-10 on LAX-HND to the mix, that's a lot of capacity...and they have all the ANA flights in there too. Hope the market can absorb it all. DL may end up with the leading position at HND, but with no partner on the other end, they are going to have an uphill battle to fill those flights with almost all O&D compared to AA/JL and UA/NH.


It is interesting that the smallest aircraft to HND is from SFO.


That may be an indication that ANA will want to add an additional SFO-HND on their own metal.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:27 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
YoungDon wrote:
Interesting that UA is using a 77W on SFO-NRT bjut a 789 on SFO-HND. I guess DEN and IAH traffic will remain at NRT until UA gets more slots.


I was just thinking that. If demand to HND is so high, they could have upgauged SFO-HND a long time ago. Now to keep all their exisiting West Coast capacity to HND/NRT plus add a 787-10 on LAX-HND to the mix, that's a lot of capacity...and they have all the ANA flights in there too. Hope the market can absorb it all. DL may end up with the leading position at HND, but with no partner on the other end, they are going to have an uphill battle to fill those flights with almost all O&D compared to AA/JL and UA/NH.


It is interesting that the smallest aircraft to HND is from SFO.


I think both flights SFO-TYO do pretty well especially up front. Both upgrades are hard which seems like a decent proxy for paid J. The 789 is also rotated through a number of SFO intl destinations.
 
mcdu
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:32 pm

janders wrote:
Lets see if they actually get the slot timing even close to what they wish for. Entire published schedule subject change.


And what if UA believes they will be able to get these times for the schedule. Wouldn’t t they know better than a random anet moderator?
 
Ionosphere
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:36 pm

Unlike DL, UA has a lot of connections at NRT with other Star carries especially ANA.
 
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:47 pm

jayunited wrote:

Forgive my ignorance but I truly do not know the answer to this question I'm about to ask.
Because of the contract NRT crews can't fly HND flights which leaves US based FA's. With so many new HND routes are some of the FA positions reserved for language qualified FA's or will UA staff these flights purely based off senority? And if UA does hold some positions for language qualified FA's how many positions are held?


The current contract between United and AFA calls for 3 language speaking flight attendants on those flights. On most A/C, 1 works in the Polaris cabin and 2 work in the Economy cabin.
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leftcoast8
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:49 pm

Will AC/NH also switch to YVR-HND and SEA-HND? (ANA already flies the former.)
 
hereandthere41
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:36 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Anybody know what happens with UA's ground staff and inflight base at NRT? Are employees being offered transfers to HND, or will ANA handle everything as it does for the current SFO flight? Also, I understand AFA agreement does not allow additional HND satellite inflight base. So what happens with them?

Probably nothing. NRT is only losing two flights, ORD/IAD. They will probably work out an agreement with AFA to allow cobasing NRT/HND.



The NRT base only covers a few of the NRT-US flights anyway, often swapping positions/flights with US-based crews.
Most likely, US-based crews will cover all of the HND flights. NRT will continue as it always does with 3 or so US mainland flights and some of the HNL/GUM flights split with HNL and GUM crews. United isn't really growing any of the four international flight attendant bases. Transfers that sporadically happen to those bases are covering attrition/retirements these days.
 
Ishrion
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:40 pm

leftcoast8 wrote:
Will AC/NH also switch to YVR-HND and SEA-HND? (ANA already flies the former.)


Are they allocating slots for Canadian airlines?
 
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:45 pm

I would be surprised if there isn’t an equipment flip on EWR-TYO, with HND getting the B77W and NRT getting a pmCO B772 or B789.
 
Fuling
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:50 pm

leftcoast8 wrote:
Will AC/NH also switch to YVR-HND and SEA-HND? (ANA already flies the former.)


We already have YVR-HND (NH), so I would imagine YVR-NRT will stay for the onward connections to/from Asia.
 
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:04 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I would be surprised if there isn’t an equipment flip on EWR-TYO, with HND getting the B77W and NRT getting a pmCO B772 or B789.


I wouldn't be so sure. While subject to change, the proposed schedule has the 772 operating EWR and IAD rotating in HND, i.e. EWR-HND-IAD and IAD-HND-EWR.

Because of their JV with ANA, NRT will continue to be a very important market for United. In effect EWR-HND will carry Tokyo O&D and EWR-NRT will carry connections to the rest of Asia.
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Judge1310
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:04 am

jayunited wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
Probably nothing. NRT is only losing two flights, ORD/IAD. They will probably work out an agreement with AFA to allow cobasing NRT/HND.



Not even necessary for all that complexity -- the HND flights can be flown by crews from the respective US American domiciles.


Forgive my ignorance but I truly do not know the answer to this question I'm about to ask.
Because of the contract NRT crews can't fly HND flights which leaves US based FA's. With so many new HND routes are some of the FA positions reserved for language qualified FA's or will UA staff these flights purely based off senority? And if UA does hold some positions for language qualified FA's how many positions are held?


Nothing wrong in asking. ;-)
There is a good amount of JP language qualified FAs so that shouldn't be a problem. Depending on the a/c size and language need there are either 2-3 scheduled lang-qual'd FAs on board -- if it's less then that's because there aren't enough available in the language.
 
UALFAson
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:16 am

IAD-NRT at least used to be staffed largely by DCA-based crews. My mother worked it for years (by virtue of her seniority, not language skills) before she retired. Switching NRT for HND shouldn't change the fact of it continuing to be staffed by U.S.-based inflight crews.
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YYZORD
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:27 am

if that's the case, NH has the opportunity to add HND-YYZ or NRT-YYZ! It's been too long that YYZ has been without a japanese carrier serving the airport, kinda makes me mad that both JL and NH are ignoring YYZ for so long...

Ishrion wrote:
leftcoast8 wrote:
Will AC/NH also switch to YVR-HND and SEA-HND? (ANA already flies the former.)


Are they allocating slots for Canadian airlines?
 
notconcerned
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:30 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I would be surprised if there isn’t an equipment flip on EWR-TYO, with HND getting the B77W and NRT getting a pmCO B772 or B789.


Unlikely as they usually do a 77W swap at NRT, SFO-NRT-EWR.
 
leftcoast8
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:49 am

Fuling wrote:
leftcoast8 wrote:
Will AC/NH also switch to YVR-HND and SEA-HND? (ANA already flies the former.)


We already have YVR-HND (NH), so I would imagine YVR-NRT will stay for the onward connections to/from Asia.


So that means

YVR:
AC to Narita (*A)
JAL to Narita (OW)
ANA to Haneda (*A)

SEA:
Delta to Haneda (ST)
JAL to Narita (OW)
ANA to Narita (*A)

PDX:
Delta to Haneda (ST)

I wonder, of the AC/DL, JAL and ANA flights between the PNW and Japan, which are designed for O&D traffic, and which are for connecting traffic? Is there a lot of corporate and/or leisure/VFR demand to Japan out of Seattle and Portland, and vice versa? I believe (speaking as someone who has lived in Vancouver his whole life) there is a fair amount of YVR-Japan demand for business, education and leisure.

Leisure/VFR: YVR is a gateway to the Rockies (a popular tourist destination for Japanese visitors) and Toronto/Montreal, and that Metro Vancouver has a sizeable Japanese population itself of about 30,000 that stimulates VFR demand. In addition, many Japanese students come to Vancouver for ESL programs.

Business: Vancouver is the closest Canadian port to Japan and has had close economic ties with Japan stretching back over 130 years. Japan is British Columbia's third largest export destination after the U.S. and China ($4.5 billion or 10.4% of the province's total exports went to Japan), and 40% of Canada's total exports to Japan came from B.C. in 2013.
 
notconcerned
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:26 am

leftcoast8 wrote:
I wonder, of the AC/DL, JAL and ANA flights between the PNW and Japan, which are designed for O&D traffic, and which are for connecting traffic? Is there a lot of corporate and/or leisure/VFR demand to Japan out of Seattle and Portland, and vice versa? I believe (speaking as someone who has lived in Vancouver his whole life) there is a fair amount of YVR-Japan demand for business, education and leisure.


The only route that's likely relying on O&D is DL PDX-HND and its corporate contracts. Otherwise the 2 other cities are both hubs for connecting traffic.
SEA: DL for US-SEA-HND, NH/JL for Asia-NRT-SEA
YVR: AC for US/Canada-YVR-NRT and also NRT-beyond with codeshare partners, NH/JL for Asia-NRT/HND-YVR

But back to thread, I think NH SEA-NRT will remain the same to draw on connecting traffic. Only routes that might changeover to complement the new UA schedule would be 1 of 2 NH NRT-LAX to go HND (that will make it 2x HND and 1x NRT) and NH NRT-IAH to go HND and maybe potential new routes. But that's just my guess.
 
muralir
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:47 am

If I was the Japanese aviation authority, I'd be pissed right about now. With 9 route announcements (5 Delta and 4 United), only 2 have resulted in additional service, with the other 7 used merely to transfer service from NRT to HND. The point of awarding these additional bilaterals was to increase service and competition in the US-TYO market, not merely allowing incumbents to switch routes.

We'll have to see what happens with the Japanese carriers, and perhaps new airlines will fill in the vacated NRT slots. But right now, the net effect of all these new slots has been pretty minimal...
 
LondonXtreme
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:28 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:

I was just thinking that. If demand to HND is so high, they could have upgauged SFO-HND a long time ago. Now to keep all their exisiting West Coast capacity to HND/NRT plus add a 787-10 on LAX-HND to the mix, that's a lot of capacity...and they have all the ANA flights in there too. Hope the market can absorb it all. DL may end up with the leading position at HND, but with no partner on the other end, they are going to have an uphill battle to fill those flights with almost all O&D compared to AA/JL and UA/NH.


It is interesting that the smallest aircraft to HND is from SFO.


I think both flights SFO-TYO do pretty well especially up front. Both upgrades are hard which seems like a decent proxy for paid J. The 789 is also rotated through a number of SFO intl destinations.

SFO-TYO should be one of the most profitable Japan-US routes. Look at the J fare and Y fare. Especially, the nonstop SFO-TYO is always more than $1200, higher than most nonstop or 1 stop US-TYO, and way higher than LAX-TYO.
 
ITSTours
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:56 am

muralir wrote:
If I was the Japanese aviation authority, I'd be pissed right about now. With 9 route announcements (5 Delta and 4 United), only 2 have resulted in additional service, with the other 7 used merely to transfer service from NRT to HND. The point of awarding these additional bilaterals was to increase service and competition in the US-TYO market, not merely allowing incumbents to switch routes.

We'll have to see what happens with the Japanese carriers, and perhaps new airlines will fill in the vacated NRT slots. But right now, the net effect of all these new slots has been pretty minimal...

It already happened in Europe.

Nobody flies MUC-NRT. (MUC-HND 1x LH and 1x NH)
LH and NH does not fly FRA-NRT. (Only JL does. FRA-HND 2x NH and 1x LH)
NH and JL does not fly LHR-NRT. (Only BA does. LHR-HND 2x JL, 1x NH, 1x BA)
NH and JL does not fly CDG-NRT. (Only AF does. CDG-HND 2x AF, 1x NH, 1x JL)

The government knows very well that airlines want to ditch NRT whenever possible.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:04 am

LAXintl wrote:
Current FA contract does not allow HND to become a co-terminal of NRT. They could, however, designate HND as a satellite base, but that would open it to transfers fro all FAs, no matter their current base which defeats some of the cultural and language benefits of having the Tokyo base. Though its unlikely UA wants so many flights full of US-based crews in expensive downtown Tokyo hotels.


Is it possible that UA would have all crews routing through Tokyo fly into NRT and overnight there, then provide ground transfers to HND for outbounds - reversing the process for HND inbound crews - so no one ends up staying downtown except for perhaps the flight deck crews?
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FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:13 am

muralir wrote:
If I was the Japanese aviation authority, I'd be pissed right about now. With 9 route announcements (5 Delta and 4 United), only 2 have resulted in additional service, with the other 7 used merely to transfer service from NRT to HND.


Don't forget the loss of both MNL and SIN from DL.
 
DXTraveler
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:05 am

Looking at the new schedule. Horrible connection times to places like BKK, ICN, MNL from IAD if you use the new HND route.
 
codc10
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:49 pm

DXTraveler wrote:
Looking at the new schedule. Horrible connection times to places like BKK, ICN, MNL from IAD if you use the new HND route.


UA ICN connections are crappy regardless of whether you use HND or NRT. Asia connections are oriented to NRT anyway; HND is going to be best for local traffic... even domestic transfers require a terminal change.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:02 pm

codc10 wrote:
DXTraveler wrote:
Looking at the new schedule. Horrible connection times to places like BKK, ICN, MNL from IAD if you use the new HND route.


UA ICN connections are crappy regardless of whether you use HND or NRT. Asia connections are oriented to NRT anyway; HND is going to be best for local traffic... even domestic transfers require a terminal change.

Not for too long as T2 is partly being converted to intl traffic. Knowing UA, NH and LH will move in for sure.

Michael
 
ikramerica
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:16 pm

DXTraveler wrote:
Looking at the new schedule. Horrible connection times to places like BKK, ICN, MNL from IAD if you use the new HND route.

Yeah I don’t get it. They are going to use an afternoon arrival from IAD while SFO leaves too early ro pick up many connections.

Swap the Haneda timings of the IAD and SFO flights and it makes more sense. In a vacuum. But maybe when you look at NH Timings it works better
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LAXintl
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:23 pm

For you guys talking about connections, I think you are missing the point.

HND is meant to serve as the local O&D and Japan connection airport. You want to connect to other points in Asia, then NRT is the airport to still where NH maintains its primarily international gateway at. Between NH & UA they will have a comprehensive schedule offering at both airports for U.S. flights.
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LAXintl
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:29 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Is it possible that UA would have all crews routing through Tokyo fly into NRT and overnight there, then provide ground transfers to HND for outbounds - reversing the process for HND inbound crews - so no one ends up staying downtown except for perhaps the flight deck crews?


Guaranteed they won't limo crews 2-hours across town. Not only is traffic unpredictable, such a transfer would do quite a number on duty day.
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EA CO AS
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Re: United announces 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:37 pm

LAXintl wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Is it possible that UA would have all crews routing through Tokyo fly into NRT and overnight there, then provide ground transfers to HND for outbounds - reversing the process for HND inbound crews - so no one ends up staying downtown except for perhaps the flight deck crews?


Guaranteed they won't limo crews 2-hours across town. Not only is traffic unpredictable, such a transfer would do quite a number on duty day.


If it adds 2 hours, you’re correct.
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UPlog
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:51 pm

Limo HND<>NRT :shakehead:

We tried it briefly at my company and it did not work well. The only time I see it now are part of short domestic or regional(Seoul-Tokyo) deadheads and then limo to NRT, but those are pretty rare also. In general, if you operate into NRT, you'll operate out from there also.

The best case 1-hour limo could easily exceed 2-hours in rush hour or during inclement weather (remember rains frequently in Tokyo).
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UA857
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:01 pm

LAXintl wrote:
United announced it will begin newly awarded service between four of its U.S. hubs and Tokyo's Haneda International Airport on March 28, 2020.

United will begin operating nonstop service between Chicago, Los Angeles, New York/Newark and Washington, D.C. and Haneda, subject to government approval. United currently offers daily nonstop service between San Francisco and Haneda. Tickets fornew Haneda flights will be available for purchase starting August 17.

https://hub.united.com/united-adds-serv ... 55994.html

=

BIG caveat being able to obtain these desired slot times. Airlines have till October to work with local Japanese authorities to secure timings.

=


Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECGqtwJU8AAyPj5?format=jpg

Why no 777-300ER service to HND?
 
Judge1310
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:42 pm

So many folks on here are worried about hotel prices, and yes, they are taken into account, but let's not forget that there is another *very* expensive city where UA receives discounts due to guaranteed room blocks for crews: LHR. The costs of accommodations in a locale are also figured (in aggregate) with the ticket price offerings for such flights. HND should command a very decent yield over time.
 
notconcerned
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Re: United announces proposed 2020 Haneda schedule

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:46 am

UA857 wrote:
Why no 777-300ER service to HND?


I noted it earlier in the thread that UA uses NRT to perform the 77W swap, SFO-NRT-EWR. I don't think there's much slack in the 77W fleet right now, even with SFO-HKG going 2x 772, the 77W goes straight to EWR-PVG.

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