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bluefltspecial
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IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:30 am

A nice article in the Washington Post about growth at Dulles today.

I've always thought that airport had so much potential to be so much more. It's certainly had an interesting history over the years.

I remember as a young avgeek, watching planes for hours on the observation deck under the control tower, seeing everything from Russian built airframes to airlines I had never heard of - operating every type of plane I could imagine. Also, the mobile lounges had the best up close views.

It's certainly had it's ups and downs, pardon the pun. With ACA becoming Independence Air growing large only to disappear. Not to mention having JetBlue at one point becoming the second-largest carrier in the mid 2000s, I was hopeful they would make it a secondary hub, but they choose BOS instead, and DCA as their primary airport for DC.

The article mentions a number of new airlines and current ones expanding operations, should be interesting to see what will happen over the next 10-15 years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/after-years-long-slump-dulles-international-airport-bounces-back/2019/08/17/cf499140-b3d5-11e9-8949-5f36ff92706e_story.html (paywall)

Points of interest:

  • IAD again has more traffic than DCA, first time since 2014
  • 5.1% growth over last year
  • 24.1 million pax in previous year
  • BWI still ahead by 23 million a year
  • PFC at Dulles hit $25 at one point, vs $14 at DCA and $10 at BWI
  • Silver Metro line should be completed by end 2020
  • C/D concourse not likely to be replaced intol 30 mil mark

Attn Mods, searched but found no post about this, if dupe please delete.
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RyanairGuru
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:39 am

IAD is now in a position for sustained growth after a lost decade. This has little to do with IAD, though, and a lot to do with DCA.

A succession of factors led to rapid growth at DCA at the expense of IAD. First the US-DL slot swap that led to slots been divested, primarily to WN and B6. Congress then granted a series of beyond-perimeter exemptions which took transcon traffic from IAD. Then the US-AA merger led to, in effect, the entire slot portfolio of PMAA being divested, again primarily to WN and B6.

This one-two punch for IAD of growing LCC competition at DCA and some transcon routes moving across meant that DCA became more accessible and more affordable for passengers that had previously used IAD. It is highly unlikely that this set of circumstances will arise again in the next decade, and DCA will largely be status quo.

Metro Washington in general, and NOVA in particular, continues to grow, and those passengers will have to fly somewhere. That bodes well for IAD.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
TWA85
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:29 am

Wasn't it reported a few years back that six new wide body gates are supposed to be built where the regional gates currently are at the end of Concourse A?
 
wn676
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:34 am

TWA85 wrote:
Wasn't it reported a few years back that six new wide body gates are supposed to be built where the regional gates currently are at the end of Concourse A?


That’s probably still a long way off. There would have to be a way to accommodate those 31 regional positions, and with only 6 widebody gates you’re theoretically only able to get somewhere between 11-15 regional swing gates out of that.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
LoudounHound
Posts: 83
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:06 pm

wn676 wrote:
TWA85 wrote:
Wasn't it reported a few years back that six new wide body gates are supposed to be built where the regional gates currently are at the end of Concourse A?


That’s probably still a long way off. There would have to be a way to accommodate those 31 regional positions, and with only 6 widebody gates you’re theoretically only able to get somewhere between 11-15 regional swing gates out of that.


Seems to me they should move the UA regional gates to a purpose built new facility on the east side of where the train station is for the future C Concourse. The train is already there, along with the pedestrian tunnel to the current Concourse C, so transfers will be easy. When the C/D replacement eventually gets built, the regional facility would fit perfectly. IAD needs the international gates in A Concourse. I believe it's been reported that gates are just about full during the afternoon international bank (4 p.m. to 6 p.m.), so new carriers may not get the time slots they prefer.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:11 pm

Having just been through IAD in the last few weeks (along with DCA), I am happy to see the airport growing.

When I look at the development in that region, with the amount of commercial and residential demand that would be generated around there, there is a strong base to work from.

Loved using the mobile lounge this time around. Certainly an interesting experience.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 196
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:19 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
A nice article in the Washington Post about growth at Dulles today.

I've always thought that airport had so much potential to be so much more. It's certainly had an interesting history over the years.

I remember as a young avgeek, watching planes for hours on the observation deck under the control tower, seeing everything from Russian built airframes to airlines I had never heard of - operating every type of plane I could imagine. Also, the mobile lounges had the best up close views.

It's certainly had it's ups and downs, pardon the pun. With ACA becoming Independence Air growing large only to disappear. Not to mention having JetBlue at one point becoming the second-largest carrier in the mid 2000s, I was hopeful they would make it a secondary hub, but they choose BOS instead, and DCA as their primary airport for DC.

The article mentions a number of new airlines and current ones expanding operations, should be interesting to see what will happen over the next 10-15 years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/after-years-long-slump-dulles-international-airport-bounces-back/2019/08/17/cf499140-b3d5-11e9-8949-5f36ff92706e_story.html (paywall)

Points of interest:

  • IAD again has more traffic than DCA, first time since 2014
  • 5.1% growth over last year
  • 24.1 million pax in previous year
  • BWI still ahead by 23 million a year
  • PFC at Dulles hit $25 at one point, vs $14 at DCA and $10 at BWI
  • Silver Metro line should be completed by end 2020
  • C/D concourse not likely to be replaced intol 30 mil mark

Attn Mods, searched but found no post about this, if dupe please delete.


Typo in your points of interest. BWI was ahead with a total of 27 million passengers in 2018, not ahead by 23 million.
DCA is also going to take a little hit until the construction is complete.
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:49 pm

Is the new metro link to the city open yet?
 
golfingboy
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:58 pm

Certainly an interesting time for IAD - the silver line will help. When project journey over at DCA completes this will have a short term impact at IAD (AA intends to do a lot of upgauging which will increase capacity at DCA) but this project means DCA will be close to maxing out infrastructure wise. As demand continues to grow in the next decade most of the DC/Baltimore growth will take place at IAD/BWI.
 
rjmf22
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:04 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
Is the new metro link to the city open yet?


Not yet. Q4 of 2020 is the supposed finish date.
United Airlines
 
washingtonflyer
Posts: 1490
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:17 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
Is the new metro link to the city open yet?


No, but the pedestrian tunnel from the metro station to the terminal is. Not too bad of a walk.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8408
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:47 pm

IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED, HERE'S SOME FOOTAGE, OLD & NEW, I FOUND

The first 2 minutes of this brings back memories.

If you're an avgeek AND a musician..here's the perfect job


Massage bar? Who wants a massage in such a public setting?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYUwgSq20zE

Modern Dulles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGYZPayie4s

_____________________________________________________________
HERE'S A BUNCH OF OLD CLIPS FROM THE 1960s & 1970s


IAD 1960s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMDMr73slec


deserted Dulles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPZ81X5BBI8

Dulles exteriors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV1Sc5Tbdsw

Image
IAD dedication 1962
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIZi9mohPl0


another dedication clip...this time with sound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlTRF4r1J8E

another dedication clip..Pres Kennedy's speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixUrIt4RcMU


IAD in 1962
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd2RTqLnhBE
Image


The infamous IAD mobile lounge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGOh73eZZR8


Mobile lounge concept from 1958:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyb4nLFeg5M

IAD 1965
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rB6wCYxU14
Image

1970s IAD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC6HslkSxuQ


1970s TWA flight leaving from IAD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9JebErX9GI

IAD 1972...I don't remember National serving IAD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzcGUZMhybk

Image
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
ITSTours
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:12 pm

A new train service directly connecting IAD and DCA is needed. Let's call it a bronze line. This will strongly help the commute to the new Amazon campus from IAD that will be next to DCA. As orange, silver and blue lines all merge into Rosslyn, this is not a difficult idea.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2023
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:42 pm

Ever since moving to DC last August, I have actually come to prefer flying out of IAD. While DCA has Metro access and is great because I can literally be at my house in 20 minutes after landing, Terminal B/C is quite cramped and I hate 35X. DCA is also the only airport (besides ATL) that I have had to wait in a security line even with Clear and TSA Pre.

IAD is pretty easily accessible on the 5A Metrobus, and will be even more accesible once the Silver Line extension opens there next year, provided it doesn’t get delayed again. The security lines are short and I’m usually through the line in less than 2 minutes. Concourses A and B are among the nicest concourses in the USA, as is the international arrivals building. The Turkish Airlines Priority Pass Lounge is also quite lovely and is an added benefit.

That said, the C/D concourses are a royal dump, even with all of the refurbishments that have been made. The facility is embarrassing and I can’t quite understand why MWAA/UA are dragging their feet. I have seen the preliminary renderings for the permanent C/D Concourse and UA FIS area, and they look quite nice.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
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OzarkD9S
Posts: 5389
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:37 pm

In the 70's, my Mom and I flew out to DC every December to do some Secret Santa shopping with our relatives in Virginia and always flew Ozark PIA-CMI-IAD and return. The place was gorgeous but a real ghost town. Ozark, Piedmont and Southern used to pull right up to the area in front of the control tower and deplane without buggies. I don't think I ever saw more than 5 other planes on the ground. One year I remember we used the buggies because of ramp work and it was super chic back then, at least I thought so. IAD has and even more so IS coming into it's potential.
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
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STT757
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:39 am

Regarding concourse C/D redevelopment, why not include all the International carriers and UA into that facility. Build a new concourse that includes a FIS and locate all the International carriers and UA international flights to that facility.

Move UA domestic and Express to concourse A/B, and move all the domestic carriers (AS, AS, DL, F9, AC, WN) to expanded Z gates. Build out additional Z gates with more space for concessions, clubs etc..


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RJNUT
Posts: 1791
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:58 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
In the 70's, my Mom and I flew out to DC every December to do some Secret Santa shopping with our relatives in Virginia and always flew Ozark PIA-CMI-IAD and return. The place was gorgeous but a real ghost town. Ozark, Piedmont and Southern used to pull right up to the area in front of the control tower and deplane without buggies. I don't think I ever saw more than 5 other planes on the ground. One year I remember we used the buggies because of ramp work and it was super chic back then, at least I thought so. IAD has and even more so IS coming into it's potential.

Nice story. I often wondered who on earth boarded that oddly routed flight!
 
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OzarkD9S
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:39 am

RJNUT wrote:

Nice story. I often wondered who on earth boarded that oddly routed flight!


Lots of Caterpillar folks heading to Washington and New York. The funny thing about that route was I always noticed about 4-5 people flying PIA-CMI and getting off. I mean who the heck was flying that?
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
Rdh3e
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:45 am

USAirALB wrote:
That said, the C/D concourses are a royal dump, even with all of the refurbishments that have been made. The facility is embarrassing and I can’t quite understand why MWAA/UA are dragging their feet. I have seen the preliminary renderings for the permanent C/D Concourse and UA FIS area, and they look quite nice.

Possibly because CPE at IAD is already nearly double DCA and that would just add a ton of cost with little if any revenue to be gained?
 
DiscoverCSG
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:55 am

STT757 wrote:
Regarding concourse C/D redevelopment, why not include all the International carriers and UA into that facility. Build a new concourse that includes a FIS and locate all the International carriers and UA international flights to that facility.

Move UA domestic and Express to concourse A/B, and move all the domestic carriers (AS, AS, DL, F9, AC, WN) to expanded Z gates. Build out additional Z gates with more space for concessions, clubs etc..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


The issue would be that C/D (old or new) is a midfield concourse. When terminating international passengers have cleared immigration and customs at such a facility as you propose, and have their checked luggage in hand, they would still be a train ride from ground transportation. This means a second train, or a bus, or a separate part of the existing train (with a dedicated boarding zone, etc.), would have to be built to get those arriving passengers to the landside areas.
 
blockski
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:15 pm

STT757 wrote:
Regarding concourse C/D redevelopment, why not include all the International carriers and UA into that facility. Build a new concourse that includes a FIS and locate all the International carriers and UA international flights to that facility.


A single concourse wouldn't be big enough to handle IAD's peak international usage.

The current C/D (as well as the new planned facility) already has a midfield FIS for connecting passengers. The concepts for the new concourse also aimed to get all of the Star partners under one roof, but that's also going to be challenging. Even getting just the JV partners under one roof would be a squeeze.

Move UA domestic and Express to concourse A/B, and move all the domestic carriers (AS, AS, DL, F9, AC, WN) to expanded Z gates. Build out additional Z gates with more space for concessions, clubs etc..


UA was offered A/B when it was built, but they turned it down because the lease costs for C/D are much, much lower. Also, UA wants easy connections to and from their domestic flights to their international ones - they'd like to have as much under one roof as possible.

I don't think even the full buildout of the Z gates would be enough space to move all other domestic carriers out of A/B.
 
blockski
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:21 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
That said, the C/D concourses are a royal dump, even with all of the refurbishments that have been made. The facility is embarrassing and I can’t quite understand why MWAA/UA are dragging their feet. I have seen the preliminary renderings for the permanent C/D Concourse and UA FIS area, and they look quite nice.

Possibly because CPE at IAD is already nearly double DCA and that would just add a ton of cost with little if any revenue to be gained?


MWAA and UA aren't dragging their feet. A new concourse has to be paid for. MWAA doesn't just have cash sitting around. Likewise, UA needs to have a strong business case for the investment.

MWAA officials (mentioned in this article) call out a 30m pax per year level as a threshold for a new C/D concourse. That makes sense. The only way IAD gets there soon is if UA continues to grow a lot; the only way UA does that is to beef up domestic connections, adding banks to the hub, etc. UA has hinted at this in the recent past. If UA does that and can sustain the business, then not only will IAD's current CPE go down, but there's a stronger business case for taking on the expense of a new facility.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:32 pm

The article gets some things right, and misses others. The author relied heavily upon MWAA and MCOG people for information, got their party line, and essentially wound up writing an MWAA apology piece. The Washington Post should do better than that. Nevertheless, IAD is growing again, for reasons related to its particular strengths.

MWAA loves to blame the west-coast slots at DCA for Dulles's years of stagnation. Per the DCA website there are 15 daily nonstop narrowbody beyond-perimeter roundtrips, hardly enough to to serious damage to IAD. That's a red herring. And the AA-US / DL slot swap replaced 42 RJ's with 737's / A320's/ EMB-190's? That's equivalent to about 20-25 more narrowbodies. Not a big capacity jump.

The reality is, MWAA spent billions building at IAD for a market that did not arrive, which is what drove IAD's cost-per-enplanement through the roof. The convoluted underground train with its station-at-nowhere, and related security setup, that the traffic numbers weren't there to support. Also, the author doesn't mention that the UA-CO merger saw United move some traffic to the old CO hub at more-lucrative, busier Newark. If I were a VA taxpayer, I wouldn't be thrilled to be helping bail IAD's CPE out. But at least MWAA had the sense to sell some of the incredibly valuable land IAD owns and knock CPE down some that way. And, of course, MWAA took some big cash from DCA.

The mid-00-decade surge the article mentions was because Atlantic Coast Airlines split off from UA and and tried going alone as LCC Independence Air. Dulles traffic--and delays--surged as DH struggled to fill seats on high-cost regional jets with low fares, while United competed tooth-and nail to defend its hub. I think Independence could have survived with a better business plan, but history is that it didn't--and Dulles traffic dropped off a lot after DH went under.

Dulles today is growing because the DC area is a wealthy tech-economy coastal city where young professionals want to live. So it has grown a voracious appetite for international seat capacity. I suspect that foreign carriers underestimated that demand for a while. Also, they may not have wanted to challenge United who was happy sending people to Newark. But then more foreign carriers entered IAD and discovered what a good market the DC area is.

Also, good for United coming to their senses and starting to send more connecting traffic to IAD again. (I suspect their high-paying business travelers are sick of NYC-area airspace congestion and EWR airfield delays.) IAD is a *great* connecting airport--widely-spaced parallel runways on the edge of DC airspace, and lots of gate space. Who cares if Terminal C-D is old (and not that crowded, if I remember right) if you're getting an on-time flight? UA should just keep repainting and gussying up C-D, and probably will. CPE still isn't great, why jack it back up again?

Finally, there isn't just a "perception" that Dulles is too far out. It *is* too frigging far out for most of the DC area, and not just because of distance. Until you get to the wide-open Toll Road airport lanes, the roads are awful. Who wants to deal with traffic--or what will be about 20 stops from downtown when the Silver Line is done--to go out there for domestic travel, when DCA is in the middle of it all? I certainly don't. MWAA can wag its finger about "long flights / big airport" all they want.

But, as the article notes, IAD is growing again, for reasons related to its strengths. UA has come to their senses and is moving connecting traffic there again. And being an economic-winner metro area is going to fill international flights in front and in back.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
estorilm
Posts: 712
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:43 pm

Wow those photos are incredible!

I was born here and still live in western Loudoun County - the changes are amazing. My dad was flying once a week and always took me out of school for business trips, so I remember many a long nights where I could barely walk, and we STILL HAD TO GET ON THE MOBILE LOUNGES. lol!

Love the airport though, and routinely visit Udvar Hazy here now.

I'm a little confused about the "workflow" as far as getting people to the aerotrain thing, it just seems like a huge cluster that doesn't make any sense. I also hadn't flown out of there for almost a year and last week was there very early (530am) and the economy lot was full, so I was redirected to the garage 1. That was fine (better even) but the shuttles to/from the terminal were 20+ minutes apart when I landed, and I THINK I could have used the tunnel thing to go there by foot?

I now work next to the Sterling National Weather Service right across from the new runway 1L / 19R. It is just spectacular how much has changed since those first photos. Look at everyone in the main terminal all dressed in suits and dresses! Wow - quite the contrast to what I saw last week!
 
blockski
Posts: 547
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:59 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
The article gets some things right, and misses others. The author relied heavily upon MWAA and MCOG people for information, got their party line, and essentially wound up writing an MWAA apology piece. The Washington Post should do better than that. Nevertheless, IAD is growing again, for reasons related to its particular strengths.

MWAA loves to blame the west-coast slots at DCA for Dulles's years of stagnation. Per the DCA website there are 15 daily nonstop narrowbody beyond-perimeter roundtrips, hardly enough to to serious damage to IAD. That's a red herring. And the AA-US / DL slot swap replaced 42 RJ's with 737's / A320's/ EMB-190's? That's equivalent to about 20-25 more narrowbodies. Not a big capacity jump.


I mean, the data doesn't lie. The new beyond perimeter slots at DCA included a direct and immediate reduction of service at IAD from the same airlines to the same destinations. Likewise, the slot swap and AA divestitures didn't add lots of DCA capacity, exactly, but dramatically opened DCA up to more competition, which hurt IAD's relative position.

None of this is really in dispute.

You can disagree with MWAA's approach all you like, but that doesn't change the fundamental story of what happened at Dulles. The events of the past 15 years basically all worked against their plan for the airport - the collapse of Independence Air, the UA/CO merger and the loss of US Air from the Star Alliance, the changes at DCA (mergers, perimeter exemptions, etc), none of those actions helped Dulles at all.

The reality is, MWAA spent billions building at IAD for a market that did not arrive, which is what drove IAD's cost-per-enplanement through the roof. The convoluted underground train with its station-at-nowhere, and related security setup, that the traffic numbers weren't there to support. Also, the author doesn't mention that the UA-CO merger saw United move some traffic to the old CO hub at more-lucrative, busier Newark. If I were a VA taxpayer, I wouldn't be thrilled to be helping bail IAD's CPE out. But at least MWAA had the sense to sell some of the incredibly valuable land IAD owns and knock CPE down some that way. And, of course, MWAA took some big cash from DCA.

The mid-00-decade surge the article mentions was because Atlantic Coast Airlines split off from UA and and tried going alone as LCC Independence Air. Dulles traffic--and delays--surged as DH struggled to fill seats on high-cost regional jets with low fares, while United competed tooth-and nail to defend its hub. I think Independence could have survived with a better business plan, but history is that it didn't--and Dulles traffic dropped off a lot after DH went under.


The article doesn't skip over any of this, by the way.
 
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United787
Posts: 2865
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:18 pm

I am excited to see IAD come into it's own. But I think UA could do a lot more, especially with connecting traffic. Even connections from ORD is sparse as there are only 6 flights daily ORD-IAD and 3 of the flights arrive in the late evening, too late for most connections to international flights. My wife used to travel often to the Middle East back when UA had flights to the Gulf area. She preferred to fly on UA through IAD because 1) PQM 2) preferred UA's business class over LH's 3) preferred one short flight + one really long flight because it was easier to get a good night's rest. But the connection opportunities through IAD from ORD were terrible: either too long or short of a layover at IAD; and/or 100% booked flights ORD-IAD. Given the massive UA premier base at ORD, you think they would do more to support IAD as a transatlantic gateway by connecting ORD (and IAH, DEN, LAX, SFO) pax there. I would imagine connections from IAD and DEN aren't much better. Instead, UA seems to prefer to send ORD transatlantic pax from ORD through FRA on LH than through IAD or even EWR on UA. (not that I would ever choose to connect at EWR). If she got lucky, she would connect at ZRH on LX but hated the timing of the connections in Europe and the two medium length flights.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5838
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:45 pm

ITSTours wrote:
A new train service directly connecting IAD and DCA is needed. Let's call it a bronze line. This will strongly help the commute to the new Amazon campus from IAD that will be next to DCA. As orange, silver and blue lines all merge into Rosslyn, this is not a difficult idea.


The American antipathy to transit spending is strong. Look at all the metro areas where it's needed. Look at the few areas where they're willing to raise taxes to do it (Bay Area, LA, and Seattle being notable exceptions, where lefties just got sick of sitting in traffic and decided to $$$pend).
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:55 pm

blockski wrote:
[I mean, the data doesn't lie. The new beyond perimeter slots at DCA included a direct and immediate reduction of service at IAD from the same airlines to the same destinations. Likewise, the slot swap and AA divestitures didn't add lots of DCA capacity, exactly, but dramatically opened DCA up to more competition, which hurt IAD's relative position. None of this is really in dispute. You can disagree with MWAA's approach all you like, but that doesn't change the fundamental story of what happened at Dulles. The events of the past 15 years basically all worked against their plan for the airport - the collapse of Independence Air, the UA/CO merger and the loss of US Air from the Star Alliance, the changes at DCA (mergers, perimeter exemptions, etc), none of those actions helped Dulles at all.


Indeed data don't lie. The data I gave prove my point. You contradict yourself when you admit that the changes "didn't add lots of DCA capacity" but then say something unintelligible--"dramatically opened DCA up to more competition?" Huh? You admit *there isn't lots more seat capacity at DCA.* So the DCA changes couldn't have had a big effect on IAD. Period.

blockski wrote:
The article doesn't skip over any of this, by the way.


The article doesn't mention Independence Air.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
blockski
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:21 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
blockski wrote:
[I mean, the data doesn't lie. The new beyond perimeter slots at DCA included a direct and immediate reduction of service at IAD from the same airlines to the same destinations. Likewise, the slot swap and AA divestitures didn't add lots of DCA capacity, exactly, but dramatically opened DCA up to more competition, which hurt IAD's relative position. None of this is really in dispute. You can disagree with MWAA's approach all you like, but that doesn't change the fundamental story of what happened at Dulles. The events of the past 15 years basically all worked against their plan for the airport - the collapse of Independence Air, the UA/CO merger and the loss of US Air from the Star Alliance, the changes at DCA (mergers, perimeter exemptions, etc), none of those actions helped Dulles at all.


Indeed data don't lie. The data I gave prove my point. You contradict yourself when you admit that the changes "didn't add lots of DCA capacity" but then say something unintelligible--"dramatically opened DCA up to more competition?" Huh? You admit *there isn't lots more seat capacity at DCA.* So the DCA changes couldn't have had a big effect on IAD. Period.


There's no contradiction at all. The old regime at DCA meant new competitors couldn't get into the airport; the legacy carriers were sitting on a lot of slots. You can indeed add more competition without adding lots of capacity - you do this by adding competitors, and that's exactly what happened at DCA.

The dramatic increase in competition at DCA came mainly from the addition of Southwest and JetBlue to the mix. Both had previously been unable to get into DCA, both had also previously opened up substantial IAD operations, and both have since pulled their Dulles operations waaay back.

Southwest didn't come to DCA until the AirTran acquisition in 2011; this was about the same time that Jet Blue started operations at DCA. Both gained more service following the 2014 US/AA divestiture. The number of slots hasn't meaningfully changed, but it's a much more competitive airport with those two holding substantial numbers of slots.

And all of this, yes, had a big impact on IAD.

blockski wrote:
The article doesn't skip over any of this, by the way.


The article doesn't mention Independence Air.

Jim


Not by name (which isn't really important), but the Indy Air boom is in there.

Even after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, when some airports saw steep drops in traffic, Dulles boomed. In 2005, the airport had its best year ever, with 27 million passengers coming through its gates.

Then things slowly began to unravel.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:35 pm

blockski wrote:
And all of this, yes, had a big impact on IAD.


Seat capacity at DCA is the really relevant factor. WN and B6 operations at IAD were not hub operations like UA. Were IAD a stronger domestic market, their having not-gigantic operations at DCA shouldn't have moved them to cut back not-gigantic IAD operations so much.

blockski wrote:
Not by name (which isn't really important), but the Indy Air boom is in there.


Yes, I'm quite aware that the 2005 IAD enplanements figure was mentioned. Indy being mentioned by name is very important. It was an extraordinarily distorting factor that temporarily spiked IAD's numbers. So no, important information wasn't there.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
dcaproducer
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:43 pm

ITSTours wrote:
A new train service directly connecting IAD and DCA is needed. Let's call it a bronze line. This will strongly help the commute to the new Amazon campus from IAD that will be next to DCA. As orange, silver and blue lines all merge into Rosslyn, this is not a difficult idea.


Never going to happen and where in the world would they place this? Metro doesn't use a third track, so there's no way to run an express train. This is part of the design flaw of Metro.

The land between DCA-IAD is some of the most densely populated, high value property in the DMV. Heck Arlington has stopped the expansion of I-66 for decades.
Once the Silver Line opens to IAD people can take the train from Crystal City to IAD if they want. I'm sure many people will, it will just be a long ride.
 
blockski
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:43 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
blockski wrote:
And all of this, yes, had a big impact on IAD.


None of what you discuss is relevant. Seat capacity at DCA is. WN and B6 operations at IAD were not hub operations like UA. Were IAD a stronger domestic market, their opening not-gigantic operations at DCA shouldn't have moved them to cut back so much at IAD.



The whole point of MWAA's argument is that they know IAD isn't as strong of a local market as DCA, which is why they want to encourage more use of IAD.

It's not a coincidence that the biggest jump in DCA's total traffic was in 2015, following the 2014 slot divestitures. Those slots went from US/AA to WN/B6, and this added competition for the same number of slots dramatically increased the total number of passengers moving through DCA. It also resulted in both airlines reducing their presence at IAD. I'm not sure how you say that an airline like B6 adding slots at DCA and then later leaving IAD completely is somehow not relevant to IAD's struggles in the last decade.

Again, MWAA knew all of this, and they in fact predicted it. The dynamic still holds true today (B6 isn't coming back to IAD anytime soon), the key difference has been UA's decision-making. IAD is still weaker than DCA on local domestic traffic.
 
dcaproducer
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:51 pm

blockski wrote:
DCA-ROCguy wrote:
blockski wrote:
Southwest didn't come to DCA until the AirTran acquisition in 2011; this was about the same time that Jet Blue started operations at DCA. Both gained more service following the 2014 US/AA divestiture. The number of slots hasn't meaningfully changed, but it's a much more competitive airport with those two holding substantial numbers of slots.


AirTran got WN in the door.
The DL/USAir slot swap at LGA got WN many more slots at DCA. WN got additional slots last year from Alaska, who inherited some Dallas slots from the aquisition of Virgin America. They are now the second largest at DCA in terms of passengers.
 
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msp747
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:48 pm

blockski wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
That said, the C/D concourses are a royal dump, even with all of the refurbishments that have been made. The facility is embarrassing and I can’t quite understand why MWAA/UA are dragging their feet. I have seen the preliminary renderings for the permanent C/D Concourse and UA FIS area, and they look quite nice.

Possibly because CPE at IAD is already nearly double DCA and that would just add a ton of cost with little if any revenue to be gained?


MWAA and UA aren't dragging their feet. A new concourse has to be paid for. MWAA doesn't just have cash sitting around. Likewise, UA needs to have a strong business case for the investment.

MWAA officials (mentioned in this article) call out a 30m pax per year level as a threshold for a new C/D concourse. That makes sense. The only way IAD gets there soon is if UA continues to grow a lot; the only way UA does that is to beef up domestic connections, adding banks to the hub, etc. UA has hinted at this in the recent past. If UA does that and can sustain the business, then not only will IAD's current CPE go down, but there's a stronger business case for taking on the expense of a new facility.

Exactly. MWAA learned the hard way when they went on their building boom 15-20 years ago, instead of waiting to see if Independence Air had staying power. If UA decides IAD can handle more banks (which would get the airport close to the 30 million number) and is willing to commit money to help build a new C/D, then I think you'll see movement on this project.

While much of the building boom was a mistake (especially the 4th runway), that infrastructure will help keep costs down when C/D is finally built. The train is already place (the current C station is where the new concourse will be built), so all that would be needed is the extension from B to the new D.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:19 pm

blockski wrote:
Again, MWAA knew all of this, and they in fact predicted it. The dynamic still holds true today (B6 isn't coming back to IAD anytime soon), the key difference has been UA's decision-making. IAD is still weaker than DCA on local domestic traffic.


It seems to me that WN and B6 entered DCA limited. Unless there were some dramatic market change, they remain limited, and everyone knows it. The few Alaska slots were a rare one-off. B6 and WN can only do so much at DCA. WN's biggest aircraft are smaller than the legacies' largest narrowbodies. Unless B6 were to change its business plan significantly, don't expect to see many (any?) B6 A321's at DCA. I don't have numbers, but I see B6 EMB-190's at and around DCA. It's not surprising that DCA would surge after WN/ B6 entry but then grow more incrementally. As far as I know, the legacies haven't drastically upgauged at DCA. I'm not sure how to explain DCA's 1.8% drop in enplanements from 2017 to 2018.

IAD, it seems to me, will profit incrementally over time from DCA limitations, plus natural demand growth in the further NOVA region. Barring some drastic market change, which seems to me very unlikely, DCA will at most grow incrementally through upgauging as yields permit. Project Journey will make using DCA easier (new B-C security stations) and more pleasant (new AA regional concourse) to use, but, it seems to me, can't on its own lead to very significant market-conditions changes. I wouldn't rule out a B6 return to IAD at some future point--but probably a small station intended for that catchment area.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
NiMar
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:43 pm

Do you have a link for the preliminary design of a replacement C/D?
 
blockski
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:55 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
blockski wrote:
Again, MWAA knew all of this, and they in fact predicted it. The dynamic still holds true today (B6 isn't coming back to IAD anytime soon), the key difference has been UA's decision-making. IAD is still weaker than DCA on local domestic traffic.


It seems to me that WN and B6 entered DCA limited. Unless there were some dramatic market change, they remain limited, and everyone knows it. The few Alaska slots were a rare one-off. B6 and WN can only do so much at DCA. WN's biggest aircraft are smaller than the legacies' largest narrowbodies. Unless B6 were to change its business plan significantly, don't expect to see many (any?) B6 A321's at DCA. I don't have numbers, but I see B6 EMB-190's at and around DCA. It's not surprising that DCA would surge after WN/ B6 entry but then grow more incrementally. As far as I know, the legacies haven't drastically upgauged at DCA. I'm not sure how to explain DCA's 1.8% drop in enplanements from 2017 to 2018.

IAD, it seems to me, will profit incrementally over time from DCA limitations, plus natural demand growth in the further NOVA region. Barring some drastic market change, which seems to me very unlikely, DCA will at most grow incrementally through upgauging as yields permit. Project Journey will make using DCA easier (new B-C security stations) and more pleasant (new AA regional concourse) to use, but, it seems to me, can't on its own lead to very significant market-conditions changes. I wouldn't rule out a B6 return to IAD at some future point--but probably a small station intended for that catchment area.

Jim


There was a dramatic market change - that was the 2014 slot divestiture from the American/US merger. Southwest is now the second biggest carrier at DCA (16%). JetBlue is #4 (8.6%), bigger than United, bigger than Alaska.

They got control of those slots in late 2014. It's not a surprise that DCA's traffic jumped in 2015 from 20.8m to 23.1m.

The legacy carriers have been remarkably stable at DCA, moving the same number of passengers over the years. The net growth has been almost all B6 and WN.
 
ITSTours
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:02 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
A new train service directly connecting IAD and DCA is needed. Let's call it a bronze line. This will strongly help the commute to the new Amazon campus from IAD that will be next to DCA. As orange, silver and blue lines all merge into Rosslyn, this is not a difficult idea.


Never going to happen and where in the world would they place this? Metro doesn't use a third track, so there's no way to run an express train. This is part of the design flaw of Metro.

The land between DCA-IAD is some of the most densely populated, high value property in the DMV. Heck Arlington has stopped the expansion of I-66 for decades.
Once the Silver Line opens to IAD people can take the train from Crystal City to IAD if they want. I'm sure many people will, it will just be a long ride.


Direct meaning without a transit. Express is desirable but not necessary.
Also a passing siding at a station is enough for an express train. No third track is required.
A hypothetical bronze line will begin at the Loudoun county and end at Franconia-Springfield, stopping at all station. Merely changing the destination from Largo to Franconia.
All of the tracks are reused so it is not a really new line though.

The larger problem is the connection at Rosslyn and that is why I think this is not going to happen. A triangular junction (wye) between Rosslyn, Courthouse and Arlington Cemetery seems the easiest way, but...

I did some research and obviously the planners thought about it. https://ggwash.org/view/35293/a-wye-is- ... s-possible
The got rid of this idea b/c of the underground structures but they are thinking about a second Rosslyn station. This still requires a transit though.
 
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msp747
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:28 pm

NiMar wrote:
Do you have a link for the preliminary design of a replacement C/D?

I have seen sketches before, but I didn't have any luck finding them on Google. Anything that was out there is probably 20 years old by now, so I'm sure United's vision for the facility is different than it was back then.
 
blockski
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:36 pm

msp747 wrote:
NiMar wrote:
Do you have a link for the preliminary design of a replacement C/D?

I have seen sketches before, but I didn't have any luck finding them on Google. Anything that was out there is probably 20 years old by now, so I'm sure United's vision for the facility is different than it was back then.


If you google around for 'Dulles Tier 2' you'll find some stuff, but at this point, I'd expect anything that's built to have a new design.

https://www.kpf.com/projects/dulles-int ... ort-tier-2

http://www.degezelle.eu/en_public_buildings.html

Architectural plans have a shelf life. There have also been rumors about different approaches for building it (e.g. not all at once), where they might build part of Tier 3 first as a replacement RJ concourse to the Low A gates, so they can expand A in the same style as the rest of A/B. UA's RJ operations would move to the new Tier 3, and then you could in theory use the new A as 'swing space' to build a new C/D in phases rather than all at once.
 
tphuang
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:19 pm

DCA-ROCguy wrote:
blockski wrote:
Again, MWAA knew all of this, and they in fact predicted it. The dynamic still holds true today (B6 isn't coming back to IAD anytime soon), the key difference has been UA's decision-making. IAD is still weaker than DCA on local domestic traffic.


It seems to me that WN and B6 entered DCA limited. Unless there were some dramatic market change, they remain limited, and everyone knows it. The few Alaska slots were a rare one-off. B6 and WN can only do so much at DCA. WN's biggest aircraft are smaller than the legacies' largest narrowbodies. Unless B6 were to change its business plan significantly, don't expect to see many (any?) B6 A321's at DCA. I don't have numbers, but I see B6 EMB-190's at and around DCA. It's not surprising that DCA would surge after WN/ B6 entry but then grow more incrementally. As far as I know, the legacies haven't drastically upgauged at DCA. I'm not sure how to explain DCA's 1.8% drop in enplanements from 2017 to 2018.

IAD, it seems to me, will profit incrementally over time from DCA limitations, plus natural demand growth in the further NOVA region. Barring some drastic market change, which seems to me very unlikely, DCA will at most grow incrementally through upgauging as yields permit. Project Journey will make using DCA easier (new B-C security stations) and more pleasant (new AA regional concourse) to use, but, it seems to me, can't on its own lead to very significant market-conditions changes. I wouldn't rule out a B6 return to IAD at some future point--but probably a small station intended for that catchment area.

Jim


B6 currently operates mostly E90s out of DCA (outside of SJU). Given that E90 is likely going out of service, I would expect this to transition to A220-300 mostly + probably A220-100 for BOS. SJU will probably move to A321 at some point. So there will be quite a bit of upgauging coming for B6 over next 3 to 5 years. I do hold out hope for B6 returning to IAD, but it would need to be fully build out and profitable at BOS/FLL first. IAD always seemed to me the most logical place for B6 to build up.
 
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msp747
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:17 pm

blockski wrote:
msp747 wrote:
NiMar wrote:
Do you have a link for the preliminary design of a replacement C/D?

I have seen sketches before, but I didn't have any luck finding them on Google. Anything that was out there is probably 20 years old by now, so I'm sure United's vision for the facility is different than it was back then.


If you google around for 'Dulles Tier 2' you'll find some stuff, but at this point, I'd expect anything that's built to have a new design.

https://www.kpf.com/projects/dulles-int ... ort-tier-2

http://www.degezelle.eu/en_public_buildings.html

Architectural plans have a shelf life. There have also been rumors about different approaches for building it (e.g. not all at once), where they might build part of Tier 3 first as a replacement RJ concourse to the Low A gates, so they can expand A in the same style as the rest of A/B. UA's RJ operations would move to the new Tier 3, and then you could in theory use the new A as 'swing space' to build a new C/D in phases rather than all at once.

Thanks for posting these links. I had seen the first rendering, but that second link is fascinating. I'd bet that when the new C/D is built, it will not be that fancy looking. My bet is that MWAA and UA will be focused on keeping costs down, to avoid a repeat of the past.
 
doulasc
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:47 am

tphuang wrote:
DCA-ROCguy wrote:
blockski wrote:
Again, MWAA knew all of this, and they in fact predicted it. The dynamic still holds true today (B6 isn't coming back to IAD anytime soon), the key difference has been UA's decision-making. IAD is still weaker than DCA on local domestic traffic.


It seems to me that WN and B6 entered DCA limited. Unless there were some dramatic market change, they remain limited, and everyone knows it. The few Alaska slots were a rare one-off. B6 and WN can only do so much at DCA. WN's biggest aircraft are smaller than the legacies' largest narrowbodies. Unless B6 were to change its business plan significantly, don't expect to see many (any?) B6 A321's at DCA. I don't have numbers, but I see B6 EMB-190's at and around DCA. It's not surprising that DCA would surge after WN/ B6 entry but then grow more incrementally. As far as I know, the legacies haven't drastically upgauged at DCA. I'm not sure how to explain DCA's 1.8% drop in enplanements from 2017 to 2018.

IAD, it seems to me, will profit incrementally over time from DCA limitations, plus natural demand growth in the further NOVA region. Barring some drastic market change, which seems to me very unlikely, DCA will at most grow incrementally through upgauging as yields permit. Project Journey will make using DCA easier (new B-C security stations) and more pleasant (new AA regional concourse) to use, but, it seems to me, can't on its own lead to very significant market-conditions changes. I wouldn't rule out a B6 return to IAD at some future point--but probably a small station intended for that catchment area.

Jim


B6 currently operates mostly E90s out of DCA (outside of SJU). Given that E90 is likely going out of service, I would expect this to transition to A220-300 mostly + probably A220-100 for BOS. SJU will probably move to A321 at some point. So there will be quite a bit of upgauging coming for B6 over next 3 to 5 years. I do hold out hope for B6 returning to IAD, but it would need to be fully build out and profitable at BOS/FLL first. IAD always seemed to me the most logical place for B6 to build up.

I never knew why JetBlue did not expand at IAD when Independence Air folded in 2006
 
DCA350
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:20 am

[/quote]Thanks for posting these links. I had seen the first rendering, but that second link is fascinating. I'd bet that when the new C/D is built, it will not be that fancy looking. My bet is that MWAA and UA will be focused on keeping costs down, to avoid a repeat of the past.[/quote]

I don't see why they wouldn't make a carbon copy of A/B with an FIS facility. A/B is world class imo, I haven't seen many better.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:44 am

BWI has been hurt a lot by the MAX grounding w/WN and to a lesser degree the WOW collapse
 
SteelChair
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:18 am

Its is incredible to me how underutilized this airport continues to be. But the demand must not be there to justify more flights by the airlines
 
Antarius
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:43 am

SteelChair wrote:
Its is incredible to me how underutilized this airport continues to be. But the demand must not be there to justify more flights by the airlines


It is the Montreal Mirabel or Tokyo Narita of the US. It is used because it is forced to be used. The market doesnt care for it, otherwise 24 million at a massive airport that is also a hub for a large airline wouldnt be news.

The silver line is also a miss as it is going to be slow as molasses. Both Express and local service was needed, not just a metro.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
jplatts
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:10 am

Antarius wrote:
It is the Montreal Mirabel or Tokyo Narita of the US. It is used because it is forced to be used. The market doesnt care for it, otherwise 24 million at a massive airport that is also a hub for a large airline wouldnt be news.

The silver line is also a miss as it is going to be slow as molasses. Both Express and local service was needed, not just a metro.


At least Tokyo has the Narita Express to Tokyo Station and the Keisei Skyliner to Nippori and Ueno Station, whereas there will not be an express train running between IAD and DC proper, even with the opening of the WMATA Silver Line to IAD.

IAD is closer to DC proper than NRT is to Central Tokyo.

In Chicago, there are many travelers who fly in and out of ORD, even though MDW is closer to the Chicago Loop.

In Dallas, there are many travelers who fly in and out of DFW, even though DAL is closer to Downtown Dallas.

In Houston, there are many travelers who fly in and out of IAH, even though HOU is closer to Downtown Houston. While IAH is further distance wise from Downtown Houston than HOU is, there are some Airliners.net commentators who have

In New York City, there are many travelers who fly in and out of JFK, even though LGA is closer to Manhattan than JFK is.
 
iadadd
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:46 am

The Dulles slandering on this site makes it seem like every passenger who uses IAD views it as a burden. First, IAD is not THAT far from D.C. and is closer (and usually quicker) than BWI. Secondly, the DMV is quite decentralized, with a large amount of economic activity occurring in Northern Virginia and Western Montgomery County. In addition, the vast growth we are witnessing at IAD is primarily long-haul, and thus there is no option but IAD. I do believe that most DC area International travelers would rather make a 30-40 minute commute to Dulles to begin their International trips, rather than take a domestic flight out of DCA to EWR/JFK/ORD/PHL and connect to an International flight.

Of interesting note, it seems that Dulles has one of the highest collection of Star Alliance carriers in the Western Hemisphere with 17 carriers serving by next summer. With United making efforts to shift connecting traffic from EWR to IAD, this will only strengthen Dulles position for growth, and ultimately the airport will rely less on O/D
 
dcaviation
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Re: IAD Airport finally bounces back

Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:05 pm

Who cares if DCA had more passengers than IAD? At the end money goes to the very same pocket, MWAA.
It's a 3 way 33% 33% 33% pie that goes to BWI DCA IAD. It always will be. No matter how you look at it. You can see slight shift 34% - 31% etc. But it's not going to change.

I found some older chart that summarize situation at DC area perfectly.

Image


The increase in passenger numbers at IAD is because of additional airlines recently started flying to IAD or because additional frequencies on some flights or equipment up-gauges.

New airlines and routes:


Egypt Air B789 309 seats x 3 times a week = 3708 seats per month = ~70% occupancy = 2595

Air India B77W 338 seats x 3 times a week = 4056 seats per month = ~70% occupancy = 2840

Volaris A319 144 seats x 2 a week = 1152 seats per month = ~70% occupancy = 806

Cathay Pacific A350 334 seats x 7 = 9352 seats per month = ~70% occupancy = 6546

TAP Air Portugal A330 269 seats x 5 = 5380 seats per month = ~70% occupancy = 3766

Alitalia A330 256 seats x 5 = 5120 seats per month = ~70% occupancy = 3584

Return of Air Canada Express - CRJ200 50 seats x5 daily = 7500 seats per month = ~70% occupancy 5250

Expansion of Frontier Airlines A320N 168 seats x 20 flights a week = 13440 seats per month = ~70% occupancy 9408

Addition of Sun Country B738 183 seats x 7 = 5124 seats per month = ~70% occupancy 3586

KLM upgrading flight from A330/B789 to B772. Going from 292 seats a day to 316 seats a day. It gives us 672 seats extra a month.

With the average load factor of 70% that gives us 38380 extra people per month. Plus United's new international and domestic additions to Tel Aviv, Edinburgh, Barcelona, Lisbon, etc. Let's say that's another 12000 seats per month. Which gives us total of 50,000 extra people flying out of IAD.
That's 600,000 more passengers per year +/-.

IAD for the past several years was couple of million people behind DCA. What happened then? Adding half a million seats to IAD didn't change the numbers at DCA.
The only logical explanation is that IAD became DCs airport of choice.

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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos