**UA EWR-PSP JAN 1.0>0.2[1.0] FEB 1.0>0[1.0] MAR 1.0>0[1.0] APR 1.0>0[0.7] MAY 1.0>0[0]

YVAMWB1900 wrote:

**UA EWR-PSP JAN 1.0>0.2[1.0] FEB 1.0>0[1.0] MAR 1.0>0[1.0] APR 1.0>0[0.7] MAY 1.0>0[0]

What is up with this? I fly this route as a non-rev on a regular basis, and have been patiently waiting for UA to add the non-stop PSP-EWR flights back online for the winter schedule. There were always open seats. I'm tired of flying out of LAX. So, what's the schedule for this gonna be? No more non-stops for sure?

Judge1310 wrote:

YVAMWB1900 wrote:

**UA EWR-PSP JAN 1.0>0.2[1.0] FEB 1.0>0[1.0] MAR 1.0>0[1.0] APR 1.0>0[0.7] MAY 1.0>0[0]

What is up with this? I fly this route as a non-rev on a regular basis, and have been patiently waiting for UA to add the non-stop PSP-EWR flights back online for the winter schedule. There were always open seats. I'm tired of flying out of LAX. So, what's the schedule for this gonna be? No more non-stops for sure?

I think you, literally, just answered your own question...

Rdh3e wrote:

Judge1310 wrote:

YVAMWB1900 wrote:

What is up with this? I fly this route as a non-rev on a regular basis, and have been patiently waiting for UA to add the non-stop PSP-EWR flights back online for the winter schedule. There were always open seats. I'm tired of flying out of LAX. So, what's the schedule for this gonna be? No more non-stops for sure?

I think you, literally, just answered your own question...

T100 puts it at 60% for the season and only 50% for January...

Cubsrule wrote:

enilria wrote:

jplatts wrote:

WN had stated that it was going to be permanently discontinuing DAL-OKC in its January 2020 Base Schedule summary.

The PDEW on DAL-OKC was only 45 passengers per day in 2018, and over 86% of the passengers on the DAL-OKC nonstops in 2018 were connecting through DAL to other destinations.

The other destinations that had daily nonstop service to DAL on WN in 2018 had higher PDEW's (and more O&D passengers) than DAL-OKC.

To me that's extremely shocking. That market used to be MUCH larger. Maybe NK should be considering it.

The way you stimulate a ~200 mile city pair profitably is by convincing the business travelers on 0-1 day trips to fly it. That's not exactly a market NK targets or one with which NK succeeds.

jplatts wrote:

The PDEW on DFW-OKC was only 72 passengers per day in 2018, and AA already has more than enough nonstop flights to DFW from OKC to cover any O&D.

Cubsrule wrote:

Ehh. The history of the route includes a time of significantly lower speed limits. Isn’t it 75 most of the way now?

sprxUSA wrote:

Well the drive is easy and now maybe AMTRAK between OKC-FTW-DAL will gain a couple more folks.....

cledaybuck wrote:

NK would get their ass handed to them on DFW-OKC.

AWACSooner wrote:

Once again, OKC gets screwed! Between UA ditching the EWR route which they never promoted, now WN pulling out of DAL? Maybe the fares sucked, but I've flown that route a dozen times in the past year, and each time the flight was full (if not a few seats from being full)...now granted most of the pax were transferring intra-Texas, but this decision to drop DAL is completely asinine as far as planning for keeping business pax is concerned.
Of course, I should have expected it from an airline that refuses to paint a plane in Oklahoma colors, even though we were their second state outside of Texas.

UALifer wrote:

UA is hardly "ditching" EWR-OKC. They run the route seasonally every year April-December. 2020 will be the same.

AWACSooner wrote:

UALifer wrote:

UA is hardly "ditching" EWR-OKC. They run the route seasonally every year April-December. 2020 will be the same.

Given how they’ve never promote this route like their others out of here and can’t seem to sustain anything besides this yearly seasonal service to their biggest trans Atlantic hub...

AWACSooner wrote:

cledaybuck wrote:

NK would get their ass handed to them on DFW-OKC.

Actually, NK (as much as I don't care for em) would do really well in OKC. The fares outta here have been really trending upward recently, even with G4 and F9 and their occasional flights. The biggest issue is...where would they fly to from here that would actually both stimulate demand and drive the fares back down?

5KOVERLIBOR wrote:

WN's OKC news is a stunner. As are the PDEW figures offered above both DFW and DAL - which evidently would barely support a basic mainline narrow body.
OKC was part of the second set of non-Texas cities developed in WN's system - and became its 13th station - in 1980 (when they also added TUL and ABQ. MSY was the first outside-Texas station, opened 1979.
Best I can tell, they've been running non-stops between the two since 1980.

While I understand these are apples and oranges, in a global aviation mkt that supports IND-CDG and CHS-LHR, isn't it something it will no longer include DAL-OKC?

Brickell305 wrote:

N292UX wrote:

LAX-MEM on AA was overdue IMO. Hopefully that route ends up working out for them.

The route was only added for the holiday season.

OKCDCA wrote:

The end of the Wright Amendment was definitely a problem for OKC as a WN station. Prior to that, Missouri getting added to the list of states where you could fly from DAL before going onward didn’t help either and I believe that’s when OKC-MCI disappeared or shortly thereafter. But for all the losses they were the first to fly N/S to the DC area with the BWI flights. They added DCA, which folks in OKC had been clamoring for forever. BNA going daily is a nice alternative to STL. Also, isn't MDW year round now? And even with the loss of 3x daily flights to DAL, the net number of WN flights is zero with BNA going daily and adding a 4th HOU and 3rd PHX frequency. So clearly WN found it more profitable to connect OKC passengers through other “hubs” and make better use of the gate space at DAL.

I think the biggest problem for WN at OKC in the last couple years has been AA. 8-10 flights/day to DFW, 4-5x to ORD, 2-3x to CLT, 2-3x to LAX, 1-2x to PHX, 1x to DCA and soon to be 1x to MIA is a lot of options. Really all they have left to add is LGA. I also think AA is making a dent with corporate accounts around OKC. While this is only one example, a buddy of mine works for one of the decent size oil companies in OKC and used to fly WN to MAF and HOU a couple times per month. Now he has to take AA through DFW unless the WN N/S to HOU is absolutely necessary. He’s racked up a ton of AA miles and status and now wishes he would’ve been flying AA all along.

jplatts wrote:

The only reason for WN to add OKC-OAK nonstop service is for OKC to San Francisco Bay Area O&D traffic as WN could already connect passengers to the other West Coast markets served by WN from OKC through other airports that are much better connecting points than OAK is. There is also not enough demand for OKC-OAK nonstop service as the PDEW on OKC-OAK was only 16 passengers per day in 2018.

jplatts wrote:

AWACSooner wrote:

I snicker when folks bring up the "there's not enough PDEW to stimulate the route" argument because, if airlines purely operate on that paradigm, WN would be hosed as a business and never start new routes...does it occur to anyone that new routes can actually stimulate the PDEW?

While I agree with your point that new routes can stimulate the PDEW, there are already plenty of 1-stop connecting options to OAK from OKC (and vice versa) on WN.

I also agree that WN does not purely operate on the paradigm that there isn't enough PDEW to operate certain routes, even though there are many city pairs between cities already served by WN that do not have enough demand for nonstop service on WN.

jplatts wrote:

I also agree that WN does not purely operate on the paradigm that there isn't enough PDEW to operate certain routes, even though there are many city pairs between cities already served by WN that do not have enough demand for nonstop service on WN.