AngelsDecay
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Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:55 pm

Could this become a written off..!?
Looks a Lil bit nasty...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/acores. ... 386448162/
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:56 pm

Yikes that’s a hell of a wrinkle! Do you have the weather?
 
by738
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:07 pm

Others with similar have repaired so wouldn't discount. What ever happened to the UA 757 thats nose wheel buckled?
 
Caspian27
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:09 pm

by738 wrote:
Others with similar have repaired so wouldn't discount. What ever happened to the UA 757 thats nose wheel buckled?


It was written off.
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
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zeke
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:18 pm

The 321 that landed in the corn field the other day looks better than that
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asuflyer
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:38 pm

https://jornalacores9.pt/uma-aterragem- ... au-estado/

The winds in PDL can be very nasty at times, however this morning only ranging between 10-14 knots. Surprised no comments from yet regarding where/what the Azores are and those who can't understand why DL flies there.
 
T4thH
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:40 pm

AngelsDecay wrote:
Could this become a written off..!?
Looks a Lil bit nasty...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/acores. ... 386448162/

Regular it can be repaired, but it is really expensive and the bird will be for long time in the repair shop.

As this is a B757-251 according link, it iwill become a written of. It will be just phased out a little bit earlier.
Does someone know, how old it is, the production number?

EDIT: and most worse, the accident has occurred on the Azores, on an island n the middle of the Atlantic ocean with a real special airport. How they will get it back from there? They will have to part it out locally.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:58 pm

If it still has enough structural integrity, it will likely be ferried to some place it could be parted out.
Last edited by JetBuddy on Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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N776AU
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:59 pm

T4thH wrote:
AngelsDecay wrote:
Could this become a written off..!?
Looks a Lil bit nasty...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/acores. ... 386448162/

Regular it can be repaired, but it is really expensive and the bird will be for long time in the repair shop.

As this is a B757-251 according link, it iwill become a written of. It will be just phased out a little bit earlier.
Does someone know, how old it is, the production number?

EDIT: and most worse, the accident has occurred on the Azores, on an island n the middle of the Atlantic ocean with a real special airport. How they will get it back from there? They will have to part it out locally.

Looks like it was N543US. Delivered to Northwest in 1996.
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bennett123
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:08 pm

It is ship 5643.

According to deltamuseum.org that in N543US.

First flight 1996.
 
AngelsDecay
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:14 pm

asuflyer wrote:
https://jornalacores9.pt/uma-aterragem-dificil-da-delta-airlines-em-ponta-delgada-deixou-a-aeronave-em-mau-estado/

The winds in PDL can be very nasty at times, however this morning only ranging between 10-14 knots. Surprised no comments from yet regarding where/what the Azores are and those who can't understand why DL flies there.

Being raised in Azores myself decades ago please have in mind that there is a giant migrant community of azoreans living in the States... A possible answer to your question.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:16 pm

That must have been quite a landing. :(

N776AU wrote:
T4thH wrote:
AngelsDecay wrote:
Could this become a written off..!?
Looks a Lil bit nasty...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/acores. ... 386448162/

Regular it can be repaired, but it is really expensive and the bird will be for long time in the repair shop.

As this is a B757-251 according link, it iwill become a written of. It will be just phased out a little bit earlier.
Does someone know, how old it is, the production number?

EDIT: and most worse, the accident has occurred on the Azores, on an island n the middle of the Atlantic ocean with a real special airport. How they will get it back from there? They will have to part it out locally.

Looks like it was N543US. Delivered to Northwest in 1996.


a 22y/o plane, the case for a right off well be pretty good, I'm afraid.
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qf789
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:24 pm

Here are a couple of pictures of damage sustained

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/1 ... 65696?s=20
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T4thH
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:28 pm

Thank you both for the information. With an age of 23 years, it is not one of the oldest, but old enough for scrap.

JetBuddy wrote:
If it still has enough structural integrity, it will likely be ferried to some place it could be parted out.


According to the pictures in this link (already posted prior in here by asuflyer). the bird is structural damaged in two areas and foils wrinkled. In the lower part around the front landing gear bay and on the top. This bird will not any more fly anywhere without a less or more complete repair, and as it is already 23 years old....
There is also no much space on the airport to part it out, space is limited But perhaps they will be able to disassemble it and transport it on trucks to the port, only 1 km from the airport area away. And than to ferry it by ship to somewhere else.
 
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chepos
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Did they send a ferry flight to makeup DL 415?


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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:36 pm

 
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qf789
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:39 pm

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wjcandee
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:40 pm

23 years isn't that old. If it's just that wrinkle, it can be repaired. Atlas repaired a 767-300 with a worse-looking wrinkle after bending it with troops aboard at PSM.
 
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qf789
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:40 pm

chepos wrote:
Did they send a ferry flight to makeup DL 415?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


N538US is operating DL9959 as the rescue flight

https://twitter.com/JacdecNew/status/11 ... 44129?s=20
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Khvtosea
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:53 pm

asuflyer wrote:
https://jornalacores9.pt/uma-aterragem-dificil-da-delta-airlines-em-ponta-delgada-deixou-a-aeronave-em-mau-estado/

The winds in PDL can be very nasty at times, however this morning only ranging between 10-14 knots. Surprised no comments from yet regarding where/what the Azores are and those who can't understand why DL flies there.


The Azores are absolutely beautiful, and are a largely undiscovered destination. I think Delta just started flying there in the last year or so.

My recollection is that the runway is fairly short at PDL as well, and given to some pretty nasty crosswinds (but apparently not at the time of the incident).
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:53 pm

Probably touched down on nose gear
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AngelsDecay
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:08 pm

Khvtosea wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
https://jornalacores9.pt/uma-aterragem-dificil-da-delta-airlines-em-ponta-delgada-deixou-a-aeronave-em-mau-estado/

The winds in PDL can be very nasty at times, however this morning only ranging between 10-14 knots. Surprised no comments from yet regarding where/what the Azores are and those who can't understand why DL flies there.


The Azores are absolutely beautiful, and are a largely undiscovered destination. I think Delta just started flying there in the last year or so.

My recollection is that the runway is fairly short at PDL as well, and given to some pretty nasty crosswinds (but apparently not at the time of the incident).

Rwy is now 2500 meters, pretty decent for a 752.
Winds pretty calm at the time... Some locals referring to a naughty nose gear touch.
 
kiowa
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:10 pm

Khvtosea wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
https://jornalacores9.pt/uma-aterragem-dificil-da-delta-airlines-em-ponta-delgada-deixou-a-aeronave-em-mau-estado/

The winds in PDL can be very nasty at times, however this morning only ranging between 10-14 knots. Surprised no comments from yet regarding where/what the Azores are and those who can't understand why DL flies there.


The Azores are absolutely beautiful, and are a largely undiscovered destination. I think Delta just started flying there in the last year or so.

My recollection is that the runway is fairly short at PDL as well, and given to some pretty nasty crosswinds (but apparently not at the time of the incident).


Azores are beautiful. That Delta airplane, not so much.
 
AngelsDecay
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:14 pm

METAR Weather report:

08:00 UTC / local time:
LPPD 180800Z 04013KT 9999 FEW010 SCT040 21/17 Q1020

08:30 UTC / local time:
LPPD 180830Z 04012KT 020V080 9999 FEW010 SCT040 21/17 Q1020

09:00 UTC / local time:
LPPD 180900Z 04012KT 010V070 9999 FEW014 SCT035 21/17 Q1021
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:20 pm

In the past external temp repairs have been made for similar remote damages. Even that is a pretty big job. Sheet aluminum riveted to the outside with external stringer sections spanning the damage. Then it gets ferry flighted to a base that can fix the damage, likely ATL.

Being that it's an ETOPs aircraft I would think it will get fixed. It likely has a lower cycle count than the Domestic 757. Plus the ETOPs fleet is pretty important to the DL operation and can not easily be replaced.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:25 pm

They always got to ruin the nice planes like the MD80's and 757's. Couldn't have happened to an A321 or 737 for once?
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T4thH
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:27 pm

wjcandee wrote:
23 years isn't that old. If it's just that wrinkle, it can be repaired. Atlas repaired a 767-300 with a worse-looking wrinkle after bending it with troops aboard at PSM.

Delta will now start to phase out the 100 B757-200 next year and to replace them by A321 Neo. I do not know, when the last of the B757-200 will be replaced, perhaps the whole B757-200 story will already end between 2025 to 2027? And these birds will not have any second live (as freighter), just because all of them are now so old. With 30 years, they are at the end of their live.

The B757-300 is another story, they are younger (first was delivered in 1999), only 55 have been build and all 55 are still on duty. Airlines like them, they are not giving them away.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:24 pm

Does anyone know if the DL A321Neos will be ETOPS capable? They would be perfect for this route, given the relatively short distance (comparable to West Coast - Hawaii) and the low demand for true premium, lie-flat seating.
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md11sdf
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:33 pm

Reinforced sheet metal strengthening for fuselage buckling (from hard landings) is common enough just to get an aircraft to a proper repair facility.
But just look at that right wing.... OUCH!! I seriously doubt that this 757 will ever fly again. I wonder if the left wing was similarly bent?
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coolian2
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:40 pm

Where are the wing photos?
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Scorpio
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:44 pm

md11sdf wrote:
Reinforced sheet metal strengthening for fuselage buckling (from hard landings) is common enough just to get an aircraft to a proper repair facility.
But just look at that right wing.... OUCH!! I seriously doubt that this 757 will ever fly again. I wonder if the left wing was similarly bent?

Where are you seeing pictures of a bent wing?
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:20 pm

I think the blogger is mistaking the rooftop photos with it being the wing.

I'd be surprised if this is repaired. Retirement isn't too many years away.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:22 pm

Scorpio wrote:
md11sdf wrote:
Reinforced sheet metal strengthening for fuselage buckling (from hard landings) is common enough just to get an aircraft to a proper repair facility.
But just look at that right wing.... OUCH!! I seriously doubt that this 757 will ever fly again. I wonder if the left wing was similarly bent?

Where are you seeing pictures of a bent wing?


I think he thinks the last picture is a picture of the wing based on the angle it was taken at, I thought it was too first. But it actually appears to be the top of the fuselage taken from a point slightly below the top surface of the airplane. You can see the beacon off to the right.
 
Thunderbolt500
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:55 pm

How much is this worth in dollars
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:09 pm

The cost of scrapping and parting out will not be cheap in the Azores - this is likely to make the case for a repair more compelling.
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backseatdriver
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:12 pm

Thunderbolt500 wrote:
How much is this worth in dollars


Right now it's worth the sum of its parts. USD.
 
A380MSN004
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:04 pm

backseatdriver wrote:
Thunderbolt500 wrote:
How much is this worth in dollars


Right now it's worth the sum of its parts. USD.


Anyone can drop some ballpark numbers to scrape it localy ?
 
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zeke
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:15 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
The cost of scrapping and parting out will not be cheap in the Azores - this is likely to make the case for a repair more compelling.


A good crew of mechanics would be able to remove the best parts of it in a week or two. Doors, avionics, actuators, engines, apu. They can be loaded into shipping containers.

An excavator and truck could dispose of the aircraft into landfill in a day. Sometimes they are donated as airport fire fighting training tools.
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Jouhou
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:36 pm

AngelsDecay wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
https://jornalacores9.pt/uma-aterragem-dificil-da-delta-airlines-em-ponta-delgada-deixou-a-aeronave-em-mau-estado/

The winds in PDL can be very nasty at times, however this morning only ranging between 10-14 knots. Surprised no comments from yet regarding where/what the Azores are and those who can't understand why DL flies there.

Being raised in Azores myself decades ago please have in mind that there is a giant migrant community of azoreans living in the States... A possible answer to your question.


This is precisely why New England has always had flights to the azores. However I think Delta jumped in on it because non-azorean Americans have utilized these flights in recent years and have discovered the Azores as a relatively close, inexpensive, and enriching tourist destination, and brought back their experiences and have encouraged more people to go as tourists.

But I think the original poster here was just taking a jab at how anet discussions tend to go.
 
airtechy
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:39 am

Assuming that nothing else got pranged .. like the nose wheel, could they get a ferry permit to fly that plane unpressured to Atlanta? Seems like the crease is only between two adjacent axial ribs. And also, seems like it would only be metal and labor to Delta.... no crushed avionics bay like stuff.
 
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:50 am

airtechy wrote:
Assuming that nothing else got pranged .. like the nose wheel, could they get a ferry permit to fly that plane unpressured to Atlanta? Seems like the crease is only between two adjacent axial ribs. And also, seems like it would only be metal and labor to Delta.... no crushed avionics bay like stuff.

Besides the wrinkle on the fuselage crown around door 2, there is some pretty good deformation rear of the nose gear, which indicates a lot of structural damage and because of the location of the source (nosegear) might require the ferry to be done gear down. A transatlantic ferry flight in that configuration might be extremely difficult.
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reltney
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:29 am

T4thH wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
23 years isn't that old. If it's just that wrinkle, it can be repaired. Atlas repaired a 767-300 with a worse-looking wrinkle after bending it with troops aboard at PSM.

Delta will now start to phase out the 100 B757-200 next year and to replace them by A321 Neo. I do not know, when the last of the B757-200 will be replaced, perhaps the whole B757-200 story will already end between 2025 to 2027? And these birds will not have any second live (as freighter), just because all of them are now so old. With 30 years, they are at the end of their live.

The B757-300 is another story, they are younger (first was delivered in 1999), only 55 have been build and all 55 are still on duty. Airlines like them, they are not giving them away.





Ahhhhh. No they won’t.
As we were told in operations during one of the days management comes and chats with pilots, this is what they said.....The current 757/767 fleet will stay on until 2026 in present numbers or more if we find some. Nothing on the market today can do the 757 job, not even the 321 neo or the 737-900/9 It comes close but cannot directly replace the 757. The 757=300:is our best money on property. We are looking into the 797 and could be the launch customer. Boeing is now working with us and airbus isn’t . Their rolls have changed. A few other things were mentioned with the 88 drawdown and the stretched Canabus.

These were the managements words.. however, this was right before the MAX problems so all bets are off.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:35 am

Spacepope wrote:
airtechy wrote:
Assuming that nothing else got pranged .. like the nose wheel, could they get a ferry permit to fly that plane unpressured to Atlanta? Seems like the crease is only between two adjacent axial ribs. And also, seems like it would only be metal and labor to Delta.... no crushed avionics bay like stuff.

Besides the wrinkle on the fuselage crown around door 2, there is some pretty good deformation rear of the nose gear, which indicates a lot of structural damage and because of the location of the source (nosegear) might require the ferry to be done gear down. A transatlantic ferry flight in that configuration might be extremely difficult.


Not a problem for a gear down ferry. Jus fly at gear down speed. Friends did a gear down ferry from SYD to KSUU. I’ve done Saudi to Germany.

GF
 
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zeke
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:51 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Not a problem for a gear down ferry. Jus fly at gear down speed. Friends did a gear down ferry from SYD to KSUU. I’ve done Saudi to Germany.

GF


If the loads are sufficient to damage the integrity of the fuselage in multiple locations I would wager the gear, wheels, and tyres also require replacement.

The crown damage on the starboard side has an existing repair. I doubt anyone would sign off on throng the aircraft where there is damage to a previous repair.
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Babyshark
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:17 am

reltney wrote:
T4thH wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
23 years isn't that old. If it's just that wrinkle, it can be repaired. Atlas repaired a 767-300 with a worse-looking wrinkle after bending it with troops aboard at PSM.

Delta will now start to phase out the 100 B757-200 next year and to replace them by A321 Neo. I do not know, when the last of the B757-200 will be replaced, perhaps the whole B757-200 story will already end between 2025 to 2027? And these birds will not have any second live (as freighter), just because all of them are now so old. With 30 years, they are at the end of their live.

The B757-300 is another story, they are younger (first was delivered in 1999), only 55 have been build and all 55 are still on duty. Airlines like them, they are not giving them away.


They thought they could needle more out of Airbus on the A321Ns, get the 100 options plus some more and some other stuff included. Then the Max happened.

As to the nothing can do what the 757 could do... maybe. But one thing the 321 did that the 757 couldn't was... get more than 1,049 orders. So far the 321 has 4500 orders and the 757 stopped at 1049.

The Neos will be ETOPs, we will be replacing them on 757 routes.

.




Ahhhhh. No they won’t.
As we were told in operations during one of the days management comes and chats with pilots, this is what they said.....The current 757/767 fleet will stay on until 2026 in present numbers or more if we find some. Nothing on the market today can do the 757 job, not even the 321 neo or the 737-900/9 It comes close but cannot directly replace the 757. The 757=300:is our best money on property. We are looking into the 797 and could be the launch customer. Boeing is now working with us and airbus isn’t . Their rolls have changed. A few other things were mentioned with the 88 drawdown and the stretched Canabus.

These were the managements words.. however, this was right before the MAX problems so all bets are off.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:20 am

I was answering the question as to a gear down ferry TAT in general, not on the feasibility of THIS plane doing so. I’d agree this plane might not be ferried without a lot of work.


GF
 
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AerolineasAR343
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:40 am

In cases like these when the plane is damaged (not extensively, but at the same time enough to consider a write-off), do the pilots ever face disciplinary or economic charges from the airlines? Is that common? A hard landing in normal wheater is usually pilot error, no?
 
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NWAROOSTER
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:47 am

This aircraft will most likely be parted out on site of any and all useable parts. It's flying days are over. It will either be scraped on site or donated as a fire training aircraft. A one way ferry permit won't be issued to ferry the aircraft any where such as Kimble in Great Britain for scraping. :old:
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questions
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Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:48 am

Sorry if I missed this, but I’ve only read “hard landing” and “rough landing.”

Can someone describe the type of landing that would cause this type of damage? For example, nose gear first or main and nose gear at the same time.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Delta 757 hard landing this morning at Azores PDL

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:20 am

AerolineasAR343 wrote:
In cases like these when the plane is damaged (not extensively, but at the same time enough to consider a write-off), do the pilots ever face disciplinary or economic charges from the airlines? Is that common? A hard landing in normal wheater is usually pilot error, no?


It depends on the country since safety cultures are not equal around the world.

In the United States, it depends on the circumstances. If the pilots did not follow procedures then they may be forced to take more training. In extreme circumstances they can be fired or disciplined. Economic charges would go beyond negligence and imply that the pilots intended to damage the airplane which is highly unlikely. We have no idea at this point. There could have been a mechanical issue with the plane resulting in a rough landing or there could have been outside factors such as wake turbulence there could have been an erroneous glide slope or other approach guidance.

Most likely the crew will have a discussion with management. Any hard landing above a certain G threshold requires the pilots to document the event. The goal with a healthy safety culture is that the pilots learn from the event and the data is not only shared with Delta Flight Operations to help enhance training but also shared with Boeing and the FAA in case any policies, procedures, airplane design (such as warnings, approach guidance, etc) or training need to be enhanced. The goal is not to punish people, but instead learn from the events.

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