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LAXintl
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LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:37 pm

The city prosecutor is taking the rare step of filing criminal charges against a carrier that operates at Long Beach Airport, alleging it violated the city’s noise ordinance.

City Prosecutor Doug Haubert, in a email sent late Thursday, said Mesa Airlines, doing business as American Eagle—an affiliate of American Airlines—has repeatedly violated the city’s strict regulations on aircraft noise, even after intervention from the city. “Before filing this case in court, Airport staff was in communication with American Eagle to inform them of Long Beach’s ordinance and to encourage their compliance,” Haubert said in the email.

Long Beach’s noise ordinance forbids commercial plane operations between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m., among other restrictions. Airlines are first issued a warning and small fine, and then they are fined progressively steeper penalties if violations continue. As a last resort, the ordinance allows criminal prosecution after failure to adhere to local law, though it is rare for the city to take this step. Haubert said in the email that the Prosecutor’s Office has filed just four previous criminal cases against airlines since 2002.


https://www.presstelegram.com/2019/08/1 ... ordinance/
https://lbpost.com/news/noise-ordinance ... ch-airport

=

Some might remember city did similar with JetBlue previously to achieve improved compliance.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:49 pm

Airlines should strictly follow the laws and for any late flights be sure to let the Passengers know they are diverting to BUR and busing them in because the city will not let them land 10 minutes past curfew.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:55 pm

It's not the city's fault that Mesa can't operate on-time to a schedule that respects the curfew.
 
mia
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:56 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Airlines should strictly follow the laws and for any late flights be sure to let the Passengers know they are diverting to BUR and busing them in because the city will not let them land 10 minutes past curfew.


I agree 100%. Why don't they do this?
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Varsity1
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:59 pm

Just pull out and deprive the city of the tax revenue
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maps4ltd
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:05 pm

Oh my gosh Long Beach. Lay off. Your airport is one of your best resources, yet you pummel it at every turn.
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SonomaFlyer
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:11 pm

The rules are the rules. If the airline can't run on time then divert the flight to BUR/LAX/ONT and bus the passengers. Every airline knows the rules when they seek to fly to LGB and the folks living around LGB have been clear about the noise.

The airline could also adjust the flight times to not flirt with the curfew in the first place.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:15 pm

mia wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Airlines should strictly follow the laws and for any late flights be sure to let the Passengers know they are diverting to BUR and busing them in because the city will not let them land 10 minutes past curfew.


I agree 100%. Why don't they do this?


Alaska sent delayed flights to LAX and bussed often when I worked at SNA years ago. I assume it still happens. Passengers did not think “what a stupid rule”. They were still upset with the airline for being delayed. So I don’t think the airline would “win” passenger sympathy going that route.
 
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janders
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:17 pm

Its not like the curfew is a secret. Its up to the airlines to comply, and by the time they get to the stage of lawsuit its clear they essentially don't care and wilfully are ignoring the ordinance (aka JetBlue)

UpNAWAy wrote:
Airlines should strictly follow the laws and for any late flights be sure to let the Passengers know they are diverting to BUR and busing them in because the city will not let them land 10 minutes past curfew.


Well BUR also has a curfew.
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william
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:42 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Just pull out and deprive the city of the tax revenue


I am surprised the airlines are not at that stage yet.
 
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UPlog
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:48 pm

Mesa should well know if they will bust curfew or not as they come from short hop in PHX.
If they cant make it, they should either not even depart PHX, or operate to into SoCal airport like LAX or ONT.
 
MavyWavyATR
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:50 pm

I'm honestly surprised that LGB still has service considering their history of treating carriers poorly (especially B6) when it comes to the noise ordinance.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines

Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:55 pm

janders wrote:
Its not like the curfew is a secret. Its up to the airlines to comply, and by the time they get to the stage of lawsuit its clear they essentially don't care and wilfully are ignoring the ordinance (aka JetBlue)

UpNAWAy wrote:
Airlines should strictly follow the laws and for any late flights be sure to let the Passengers know they are diverting to BUR and busing them in because the city will not let them land 10 minutes past curfew.


Well BUR also has a curfew.


The airlines are in a lose-lose position here. If your PHX-LGB inbound is coming from OMA which got hit by thunderstorms, you're at the mercy of the weather gods. Fly to LGB and land at 12:15 am (which is past the weather "forgiveness" curfew cushion) or tell your passengers that you are either 1) cancelling the flight (stranding them) or 2) diverting to LAX or SNA (causing an hour or two of delays to the passengers). Either way they blame the airline - even though it is weather related.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:02 pm

It's not just the airport that LGB has a problem with. It's with any business that doesn't keep banker's hours. A rather large company that makes steel tubing and conduit is in the process of finding a site out near Fontana or San Bernadino, to build a new facility to get away from the stupidity of the LGB city council. I mean, this company is across the street from a rather large refinery, a fair distance from any residential areas.


Airlines won't leave LGB because there is money to be made.
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:21 pm

Mesa and JetBlue schedule aircraft intensely to cut costs. This creates issues at LGB.

Mesa better listen.

I have young kids and understand noise impact. But they need a penalty system that doesn't threaten criminal charges.

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SurfandSnow
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:53 pm

The LGB saga continues. It will be sad if AA pulls out of LGB, as those flights are often some of the cheapest options in and out of Greater Los Angeles. However, I'm sure WN wouldn't mind reinstating 3x daily LGB-LAS service with the AA slots. Maybe they'd even add some sort of nonstop LGB-PHX service...
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rlwynn
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:10 pm

It is 100% the airlines fault. LGB Looks at the the departure times to to see if they left too late to meet the curfiew. No Airline is going to get in trouble for an inflight delay.
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DCAfan
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:34 pm

It looks like Long Beach wants to run out Mesa (and AA) from the airport. Perhaps WN will fill the void and serve LGB-PHX if AA abandons the market.
 
chrisair
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:36 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
2) diverting to LAX or SNA (causing an hour or two of delays to the passengers).


SNA has a curfew as well and I don't believe there's room on the airfield for any extra jets at night.
 
MO11
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:53 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Mesa and JetBlue schedule aircraft intensely to cut costs. This creates issues at LGB.

Mesa better listen.


AA writes the schedule, not Mesa.

DCAfan wrote:

It looks like Long Beach wants to run out Mesa (and AA) from the airport. Perhaps WN will fill the void and serve LGB-PHX if AA abandons the market.


Although there is some local traffic, the market is for connections.
 
AirFiero
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:26 pm

How do you charge an airline with criminal charges? Who do you arrest, the entire airline??
 
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UPlog
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:32 pm

MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that LGB still has service considering their history of treating carriers poorly (especially B6) when it comes to the noise ordinance.


When airlines decide to start operating at the airport and sign their operating agreements they well know what the rules are. Follow them, or pay the price. Pretty simple

lightsaber wrote:
But they need a penalty system that doesn't threaten criminal charges.


As one of the posted articles states, criminal charges are last resort when other alternatives fail to achieve compliance

AirFiero wrote:
How do you charge an airline with criminal charges? Who do you arrest, the entire airline??


Companies are charged criminally all the time.
 
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:34 pm

UPlog wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that LGB still has service considering their history of treating carriers poorly (especially B6) when it comes to the noise ordinance.


When airlines decide to start operating at the airport and sign their operating agreements they well know what the rules are. Follow them, or pay the price. Pretty simple

lightsaber wrote:
But they need a penalty system that doesn't threaten criminal charges.


As one of the posted articles states, criminal charges are last resort when other alternatives fail to achieve compliance

AirFiero wrote:
How do you charge an airline with criminal charges? Who do you arrest, the entire airline??


Companies are charged criminally all the time.


The article text above doesn’t specify who would be charged. The pilots? CEO? How does a guilty sentence get carried out?
 
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:40 pm

What I don’t get is the industry—airlines, builders and ultimately consumers—billions upon billions in meeting Stage 3 and Stage 4 noise standards but we’re still stuck with noise restrictions like B-52s and Boeing 707s are screaming over LGB citizens. Really, the APU on a A220 makes more noise than the engines when it taxis by; the flaps and gear are often the primary noise generators on approach. Lastly, there’s darned few new airports where the locals were taken by surprise by the noise levels.

At my old base, the FAA spent millions buying out old homeowners or upgrading their roofs with sound insulation. Some people thought it was an open ended deal and figured they’d wait til retirement, sell their old home to the FAA and move to Florida. Surprise, the new C-5 engines brought the noise footprint inside the base perimeter and they lost out. The few remaining houses are now in a flattened development and close to worthless.

GF
 
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:01 pm

Back in my commuter days, we used to fly LAX-SNA. On one occasion we pushed back from the gate at 10:30pm, wishfully thinking we could make it to SNA prior to 11:15pm. The curfew is at 11pm, however you used to be able to ask for a 15 minute extension under certain criteria. Even with LAX tower allowing us to cut in front of numerous jets in front of us, we got to the outer marker LEMON at 11:15pm, meaning we would be touching down at 11:17pm. Executed a go around at 1000' and headed back to LAX. Very angry passengers not understanding nor caring what the consequences of landing were. Busting the noise sensors and landing may make you the hero for a few minutes, but you'll be the chief pilots whipping boy for a month if you land.
 
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:20 pm

While I totally agree that rules are rules, and it's the carrier's responsibility to comply, I have to stand back and take a moment to try to wrap my head around how our society got to a place where a CITY can file CRIMINAL charges against an AIRLINE for.... flying in a few minutes late?
That's pretty much sheer lunacy, and only speaks to the over-litigious nature of our US society at this point.

There aren't many scenarios where entity A would say "We want you to do business here," entity B says, "okay, but we screw up sometimes," and entity A says, "Fine, then, you're a criminal."
 
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:32 pm

B737Captain1980 wrote:
Back in my commuter days, we used to fly LAX-SNA. On one occasion we pushed back from the gate at 10:30pm, wishfully thinking we could make it to SNA prior to 11:15pm. The curfew is at 11pm, however you used to be able to ask for a 15 minute extension under certain criteria. Even with LAX tower allowing us to cut in front of numerous jets in front of us, we got to the outer marker LEMON at 11:15pm, meaning we would be touching down at 11:17pm. Executed a go around at 1000' and headed back to LAX. Very angry passengers not understanding nor caring what the consequences of landing were. Busting the noise sensors and landing may make you the hero for a few minutes, but you'll be the chief pilots whipping boy for a month if you land.


And, your noise footprint from 1,000’ and go wasn’t vastly different from just landing EXCEPT landing would be a violation.

GF
 
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:33 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
mia wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Airlines should strictly follow the laws and for any late flights be sure to let the Passengers know they are diverting to BUR and busing them in because the city will not let them land 10 minutes past curfew.


I agree 100%. Why don't they do this?


Alaska sent delayed flights to LAX and bussed often when I worked at SNA years ago. I assume it still happens. Passengers did not think “what a stupid rule”. They were still upset with the airline for being delayed. So I don’t think the airline would “win” passenger sympathy going that route.


Why should the airline catch grief from passengers if it is something out of their control? I couldn't work as an airline pilot or flight attendant. If a passenger gave me an attitude about a weather or mechanical delay I would say something that isn't very nice.

The airlines need to start finding anything they can complain about with LGB. If the ramp needs to be resurfaced, send them a bill for the additional wear on tires. Inoperative airport equipment? Send a bill for any costs incurred from the delayed flight. Two can play at this petty game.
 
kbmiflyer
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:04 pm

Some of this falls on Mesa. They tend to over schedule their CRJ900's with 30-40 minute turns for the whole day. If anything goes wrong during the day they are hopelessly behind and cannot catch up, which results in the last flight of the day being late.
 
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines

Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:04 pm

janders wrote:
Well BUR also has a curfew.


The BUR curfew is not a hard curfew like LGB and SNA.
 
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:27 pm

kbmiflyer wrote:
Some of this falls on Mesa. They tend to over schedule their CRJ900's with 30-40 minute turns for the whole day. If anything goes wrong during the day they are hopelessly behind and cannot catch up, which results in the last flight of the day being late.


No, that's on AA. Mesa has no control of scheduling of flights, AA does. Mesa takes what their given and flies it.
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strfyr51
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines

Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:41 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
Airlines should strictly follow the laws and for any late flights be sure to let the Passengers know they are diverting to BUR and busing them in because the city will not let them land 10 minutes past curfew.

Airlines should abandon airports with Draconian Noise Laws..
 
nine4nine
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:45 pm

I’ve screamed it many times here regarding this stupid airport that it should be razed and inundated with strip malls and overpriced high density apartments. I cannot wait till the day B6 announces the closure of this station and I doubt WN would make much of it after the fact with such low yields. The place is a total sh*thole in about every aspect known to man.

If anyone has ever been to downtown Long Beach, they would probably agree there are much much BIGGER issues than late arrivals at the airport. Good grief.
Last edited by nine4nine on Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ScottB
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:46 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What I don’t get is the industry—airlines, builders and ultimately consumers—billions upon billions in meeting Stage 3 and Stage 4 noise standards but we’re still stuck with noise restrictions like B-52s and Boeing 707s are screaming over LGB citizens. Really, the APU on a A220 makes more noise than the engines when it taxis by; the flaps and gear are often the primary noise generators on approach. Lastly, there’s darned few new airports where the locals were taken by surprise by the noise levels.


Well, in this particular case, the LGB noise ordinance does take into account the fact that newer aircraft are less noisy; the airport added nine daily slot pairs for commercial carriers a few years back on account of being under the noise budget. But even with aircraft being quieter these days, they're still pretty damn noisy. In parts of East Boston, the noise from take-offs from BOS is still a nuisance in certain runway configurations.

AA737-823 wrote:
I have to stand back and take a moment to try to wrap my head around how our society got to a place where a CITY can file CRIMINAL charges against an AIRLINE for.... flying in a few minutes late?
That's pretty much sheer lunacy, and only speaks to the over-litigious nature of our US society at this point.


Eh, it's not really different from a city filing criminal charges against a bar for staying open too late. And keep in mind that the Long Beach ordinance includes a grace period of an hour. Airlines aren't supposed to schedule arrivals after 10, and they're allowed to operate between 10 and 11 without penalty if they were delayed due to "unanticipated delays beyond the reasonable control of the aircraft Owner/Operator." So they're not just a few minutes late, they're at least an hour late, and the City isn't going to the extraordinary step of filing criminal charges just for one incident. They do so for repeated violations with no apparent willingness on the part of the operator to remedy the causes of the violations.
 
ual763
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:50 pm

What did these people do when McDouglas was there? They still throw a sh*tfit every time a DC-8, MD-80, DC-10, C-17 flew over? Wth changed in the last 15 years?
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nine4nine
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:02 pm

ual763 wrote:
What did these people do when McDouglas was there? They still throw a sh*tfit every time a DC-8, MD-80, DC-10, C-17 flew over? Wth changed in the last 15 years?



Society has become overly sensitive, easily offended, have no common sense and looking for any reason to sue.

BUT I guarantee you these NIMBYs sure don’t hesitate to book flights out of LGB and I’m sure are the exact types who lose their heads at the gate when a flight they are on coming home on gets cancelled or diverted due to curfew. “What do you mean...how can you do this to us, I’m never flying you again, I want to talk to a supervisor or better yet I’d like the phone number of your CEO”!
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lightsaber
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:06 pm

ual763 wrote:
What did these people do when McDouglas was there? They still throw a sh*tfit every time a DC-8, MD-80, DC-10, C-17 flew over? Wth changed in the last 15 years?

What changed? The price of the housing.

It has been a busy airfield since opening in WW2.

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LJ
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:06 pm

ual763 wrote:
What did these people do when McDouglas was there? They still throw a sh*tfit every time a DC-8, MD-80, DC-10, C-17 flew over? Wth changed in the last 15 years?


I doubt they flew at night.
 
AirFiero
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines

Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:29 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Airlines should strictly follow the laws and for any late flights be sure to let the Passengers know they are diverting to BUR and busing them in because the city will not let them land 10 minutes past curfew.

Airlines should abandon airports with Draconian Noise Laws..


This.

How many flights per day does Mesa fly out of LGB, and to where? If I were Mesa (or AA) I’d pull Mesa out ASAP.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:52 pm

LGB needs to decide what they want to do, get rid of these draconian restrictions or close the airport and put a park there instead.

I fear they won't but I really wish Mesa (AA), JetBlue, Southwest, Delta, and Hawaiian would pack up shop at LGB and tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
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Super80Fan
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:55 pm

UPlog wrote:

AirFiero wrote:
How do you charge an airline with criminal charges? Who do you arrest, the entire airline??


Companies are charged criminally all the time.


Yeah, usually by the Feds for high crimes, not some ultra left wing city council who has draconian laws relating to the airport and punishes airlines for landing a plane even 5 minutes after "curfew".
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
cschleic
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines

Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:04 pm

AirFiero wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Airlines should strictly follow the laws and for any late flights be sure to let the Passengers know they are diverting to BUR and busing them in because the city will not let them land 10 minutes past curfew.

Airlines should abandon airports with Draconian Noise Laws..


This.

How many flights per day does Mesa fly out of LGB, and to where? If I were Mesa (or AA) I’d pull Mesa out ASAP.


We get it, you don't like noise laws. But similar to entering into any contractual situation and then complaining about it....the airlines knew the rules (right or wrong) going in. Other airlines operate at LGB. Other airports have curfews (including the noted SNA that's much busier but located very close to LGB).

And to answer the repeated legal question, it's not a matter of the pilots or CEO, etc....corporations as entities themselves are charged with crimes all the time. There are plenty of remedies or punishments besides arrest and jail. Fines, operating restrictions, etc. And, no, it's not just the feds for high crimes.

From a practical standpoint, perhaps having defined fines (or other options) in the operating agreements would make sense.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines

Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:23 pm

cschleic wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Airlines should abandon airports with Draconian Noise Laws..


This.

How many flights per day does Mesa fly out of LGB, and to where? If I were Mesa (or AA) I’d pull Mesa out ASAP.


We get it, you don't like noise laws. But similar to entering into any contractual situation and then complaining about it....the airlines knew the rules (right or wrong) going in. Other airlines operate at LGB. Other airports have curfews (including the noted SNA that's much busier but located very close to LGB).

And to answer the repeated legal question, it's not a matter of the pilots or CEO, etc....corporations as entities themselves are charged with crimes all the time. There are plenty of remedies or punishments besides arrest and jail. Fines, operating restrictions, etc. And, no, it's not just the feds for high crimes.

From a practical standpoint, perhaps having defined fines (or other options) in the operating agreements would make sense.


There should be no "noise laws" in the first place. The airport dates back to the early 1920's. If someone had a house there before hand and is still living there, by all means they have a right to complain. I sincerely doubt that though and everyone who bought property there knows there is an airport right there.

This is just a power hungry city council trying to "go after corporations so government can become bigger".
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:42 pm

Why is LGB so concerned about residents? It's not like they are property owners. Almost everyone in Long Beach rents, the median income is one of the lowest in California. Why not try being business friendly first and then attract actual home buyers and build the community?

Btw, doesn't LGB have some big redevelopment plans on the table???
 
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:03 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
There should be no "noise laws" in the first place. The airport dates back to the early 1920's. If someone had a house there before hand and is still living there, by all means they have a right to complain. I sincerely doubt that though and everyone who bought property there knows there is an airport right there.


One of the beauties of America is that communities have say in their own land use. Be is a movie theater, oil refinery, office building or airport.
Community needs and interest evolve, and so do land-use policies.

UpNAWAy wrote:
Why is LGB so concerned about residents? It's not like they are property owners. Almost everyone in Long Beach rents, the median income is one of the lowest in California. Why not try being business friendly first and then attract actual home buyers and build the community?


Actually, the area around the airport is almost entirely single-family residential with a little commercial thrown in. So yes there are tons of landowners, including many quite wealthy ones, and most importantly they vote.

p.s. - LB was voted as top 5 most business-friendly city in LA County (thats out of 88 cities). They regularly land near top.
http://www.longbeach.gov/press-releases ... a--county/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Passedv1
Posts: 643
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:40 am

Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:14 pm

Airlines should pull of of LGB???

I think it has already happened. Not many airlines serve LGB. AS doesn't anymore.

This is all part of the game. Set aside a piece of land, call it an airport, collect the federal money. Then restrict the airport as much as possible so that its value as an airport is greatly diminished.

The DOT needs to grow a pair with these cities. These airports are funded with federal dollars. If you make it so difficult to use said airport that much of those federal dollars go to waste, then the DOT should cut the federal dollars off. Are you listening City of Seattle? No more federal subsidized Boeing factories.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:39 pm

The Feds and the DOT need to investigate this, methinks LGB is is a front for something else under the guise of being an "airport". Pull their funding immediately and file criminal charges against the Long Beach City Council. Unlike the airlines they should be facing some serious jail time.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
grbauc
Posts: 1426
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:47 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
The rules are the rules. If the airline can't run on time then divert the flight to BUR/LAX/ONT and bus the passengers. Every airline knows the rules when they seek to fly to LGB and the folks living around LGB have been clear about the noise.

The airline could also adjust the flight times to not flirt with the curfew in the first place.


Yes the world is black-and-white
Liberals are always right conservatives are always wrong
Republicans are always right Democrats are always wrong

The real world is made different shades of greys.
In the airline world there’s never delays due to weather, unforeseen mechanical problems or any other of the many factors that could happen.

I believe such of view is unrealistic
Long Beach sometimes thinks it’s like Newport Beach and walks around with his nose up in the Air. (Joke)
 
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UPlog
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:51 pm

ual763 wrote:
What did these people do when McDouglas was there? They still throw a sh*tfit every time a DC-8, MD-80, DC-10, C-17 flew over? Wth changed in the last 15 years?


I don't recall seeing night flights. Seems everything was done pretty much Mon-Fri daylight hours.

Passedv1 wrote:
The DOT needs to grow a pair with these cities. These airports are funded with federal dollars. If you make it so difficult to use said airport that much of those federal dollars go to waste, then the DOT should cut the federal dollars off. Are you listening City of Seattle? No more federal subsidized Boeing factories.


What has the airport done wrong? For decades its had the same noise policy. Its the airline here that has failed to observe the regulations.

More specifically, LGB noise ordinance was grandfathered even as part of the 1990 Federal Aircraft Noise Capacity Act (ANCA).


Super80Fan wrote:
The Feds and the DOT need to investigate this, methinks LGB is is a front for something else under the guise of being an "airport". Pull their funding immediately and file criminal charges against the Long Beach City Council. Unlike the airlines they should be facing some serious jail time.


Investigate? :confused: :confused:

Airlines are free to operate at the airport within the long-established rules. Failure to comply brings with it ever-increasing risk and cost.

As stated in earlier response LGB ordinance was blessed by ANCA.
 
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Blimpie
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:48 pm

Re: LGB files criminal charges against Mesa Airlines for noise violations

Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:00 am

Super80Fan wrote:
UPlog wrote:

AirFiero wrote:
How do you charge an airline with criminal charges? Who do you arrest, the entire airline??


Companies are charged criminally all the time.


Yeah, usually by the Feds for high crimes, not some ultra left wing city council who has draconian laws relating to the airport and punishes airlines for landing a plane even 5 minutes after "curfew".


And, there I think lies a valid question from a legal standpoint; as aviation is federally regulated (not in the sense as it was back in the day), does the city council have legal standing to file criminal charges?

Like it or not for LB residents, ultimate regulatory authority in aviation in this case falls under the FAA/USDOT. While local government can (try to) pass noise abatement ordinances, the last I checked, failure to comply with them hardly construes a criminal offense.

Do we have a lawyer around here versed in AV law who can attest to whether the city of LB has legal standing to even pursuit a criminal case against Mesa/AA?
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!

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