bravoindia
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:07 pm

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:16 pm

globalflyer wrote:
This article got me thinking...

https://www.ajc.com/business/hartsfield ... mHV79HiSM/

So does anyone know who will get these gates? I would assume that AA would get a few to consolidate their operation and combine on T and maybe UA the others? I do think that the City of ATL should take the AA "D" gates and make then Common Use. The D1/1A/2/3/4/5 CUTE gates are an absolute third world and embarrassing. NK with its 20+ daily flights, F9 12+ daily flights, AS and multiple B6 flights, you cannot even move. ATL should be embarrassed tbh!


They should be building a terminal between 27L/28 and the airport should be run by someone other than the city. They should not be embarrassed tho just because NK or F9 has to wait for a gate very once in a while. When you see how hard the arrivals get pushed in there and how efficiently the departures leave there’s not much to be embarrassed about. Sometimes the tower doesn’t have anywhere to put all of the airplanes esp when they come in at above the expected rate.
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2936
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:42 pm

bravoindia wrote:
globalflyer wrote:
This article got me thinking...

https://www.ajc.com/business/hartsfield ... mHV79HiSM/

So does anyone know who will get these gates? I would assume that AA would get a few to consolidate their operation and combine on T and maybe UA the others? I do think that the City of ATL should take the AA "D" gates and make then Common Use. The D1/1A/2/3/4/5 CUTE gates are an absolute third world and embarrassing. NK with its 20+ daily flights, F9 12+ daily flights, AS and multiple B6 flights, you cannot even move. ATL should be embarrassed tbh!


They should be building a terminal between 27L/28 and the airport should be run by someone other than the city. They should not be embarrassed tho just because NK or F9 has to wait for a gate very once in a while. When you see how hard the arrivals get pushed in there and how efficiently the departures leave there’s not much to be embarrassed about. Sometimes the tower doesn’t have anywhere to put all of the airplanes esp when they come in at above the expected rate.

There has been a movement for a state agency to take over ATL. Watching the local politics, I personally like keeping it with the city. Yes, there has been some shady dealing in the past with contracts. The City of Atlanta isn't free of issues, but those that are the most behind the takeover are from the far ends of the state. I think they see the ATL airport as a cash cow they can milk to beef up their local area. One of the big hold backs in making a switch is the airport bonds. Right now they are underwritten by the city. With an ownership change all those bonds get renegotiated. They are now in the hands of a new unproven agency. Bond markets don't like that.

As for the access for F9, NK, AS, and B6. Yes the AA D gates will likely go CUTE after AA vacates. But I don't think the airport is really going to jump through hoops to make their ATL operations better. They just don't bring much to the market.
 
TW870
Posts: 1013
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:31 am

ikramerica wrote:
NYKiwi wrote:
Some people just like to complain. Having lived in ATL this was my home airport for a while and considering the amout of people that flow through here wvery day this place does very well. Sure its busy but what do you expect its a hub. Do people really want a terminal to themselves. The city is always investing in airport its bright always clean much better than 90% other airports in the US. Layout is pretty simple and easy to navigage and remember its not that far from doentown rither so its not a remote airport 45 mins out of city centre

Locals always view their home hub airport differently than visitors or connecters. Its because they don’t rent cars, don’t have to try to get across the airport in 45 minutes unless they are late from home, or worry about eating there.


I think ATL is very strong as someone who a visitor and connector. Thunderstorms on occasion but generally good weather, extremely efficient ground ops, excellent Skyclubs, and lots of action to watch. MARTA is a breeze to the city. So much better to LAX, where ground transportation is a total disaster, and NYC - which is beyond terrible in all ways except for the fantastic plane spotting. ATL is big and busy, and makes MSP or SLC seem sleepy. But when I have pressing business and a tight schedule, I rank it with DTW and MSP as a great place to connect.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 926
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:26 am

catiii wrote:
Atlanta though is one of the few (maybe only) airport of its size that is run by the City Council and not an independent airports authority or board.


If I'm not mistaken, PHL is also under the jurisdiction of it's city council instead of an independent board. Same with MDW/ORD and the City of Chicago.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1703
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:48 pm

Just a thought..Yes, Atlanta and Dl (and others) continue to have nice organic growth at ATL, but some of this gate construction/ congestion could be helped if Dl ( In this example, applies many airports) would acquire and schedule more larger aircraft (read widebody) on heavy / trunk routes like in the old days.
Perhaps some day the NMA will help solve this problem. I don't think scheduling more 738/9's is the best solution. Yes I know customers like frequency..we have had this discussion, but I believe they would rather have more on time performance arrivaing and departing.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6641
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:31 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
catiii wrote:
Atlanta though is one of the few (maybe only) airport of its size that is run by the City Council and not an independent airports authority or board.


If I'm not mistaken, PHL is also under the jurisdiction of it's city council instead of an independent board. Same with MDW/ORD and the City of Chicago.


ATL is the only airport of its size, but...

DEN, LAX, PHX, IAH/HOU, DAL, MIA, AUS, SAT, SFO, CLT, MCI, and MSY are all owned and operated by their respective cities (although a few of those cities have consolidated city/county governments). And an independent operating authority is certainly no bulwark against corruption and featherbedding; one need only look at the PANYNJ.
 
bdl2stl2pvg
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:44 pm

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:32 am

[quote="kbmiflyer"]The plan is for the gates to be for UA and AA. This will allow AA to consolidate operations into one area. I believe they will keep the separate baggage claim.

$330,000,000 for 5 gates is absurd. I know other buildings have to relocated and there are other considerations, but really?

So, I figured that the O'Hare 5 gate expansion could be a benchmark, surprisingly the 5 AA gates (L-20-24 Stinger) were only $78M. Now, Chicago isn't exactly known for its efficiency, and there was the Power Plant issue, yet they got 5 gates for the price of only 1-1.25 in Atlanta. Very surprising.
 
kbmiflyer
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:23 am

bdl2stl2pvg wrote:
kbmiflyer wrote:
The plan is for the gates to be for UA and AA. This will allow AA to consolidate operations into one area. I believe they will keep the separate baggage claim.

$330,000,000 for 5 gates is absurd. I know other buildings have to relocated and there are other considerations, but really?


So, I figured that the O'Hare 5 gate expansion could be a benchmark, surprisingly the 5 AA gates (L-20-24 Stinger) were only $78M. Now, Chicago isn't exactly known for its efficiency, and there was the Power Plant issue, yet they got 5 gates for the price of only 1-1.25 in Atlanta. Very surprising.


The L20 stinger also required a pretty long walkway to attach it to the rest of the L concourse. I don't know the exact cost of the B stinger gates at DFW, but the bonding estimate was $25 million. That bought us 9 new gates.

I can't fathom why it cost $330 million to extent T north for 5 gates.
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1640
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:14 am

The reasons this costs so much are covered in the article, if anyone bothered to read it. ATL is a fully-developed airfield. Any major expansion is going to involve significant enabling events, some of which are going to be very costly. In this case, roadways, fuel tanks, a GSE facility and an ARFF station all have to be relocated. Thats the price to pay to grow ATL. And top be clear, these projects require buy-in from the the airlines. If it is acceptable to them, why are all of you concerned?
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13992
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:25 pm

jetlanta wrote:
The reasons this costs so much are covered in the article, if anyone bothered to read it. ATL is a fully-developed airfield. Any major expansion is going to involve significant enabling events, some of which are going to be very costly. In this case, roadways, fuel tanks, a GSE facility and an ARFF station all have to be relocated. Thats the price to pay to grow ATL. And top be clear, these projects require buy-in from the the airlines. If it is acceptable to them, why are all of you concerned?


I agree with your last couple of sentences, but the cost does seem high to me in comparison to the recent L expansion at ORD, which was also very much on a "fully developed airfield" and, much like ATL, right on a dense landside/airside boundary.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
User avatar
WassbiKhalifa
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:53 pm

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:19 pm

If I remember correctly B North (old EA) is higher that B South because of baggage sorting under B North.
 
kbmiflyer
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:08 am

All the article tells me is they are making the effort much larger than it needs to be. One only needs to look at the airport now, and you can see you can see there is room to add 5 gates to the end of the terminal without even touching the terminal exit row and the economy parking exit plaza, but somehow it is necessary to do both to add the 5 gates. Why is there a new bridge needed to get out of the economy parking lot?
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2936
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:03 pm

kbmiflyer wrote:
All the article tells me is they are making the effort much larger than it needs to be. One only needs to look at the airport now, and you can see you can see there is room to add 5 gates to the end of the terminal without even touching the terminal exit row and the economy parking exit plaza, but somehow it is necessary to do both to add the 5 gates. Why is there a new bridge needed to get out of the economy parking lot?

I'm guessing here, but I bet the five gates will not be in direct line with the current T gates. I'm thinking they need to angle them to the west into the area of the North Terminal Parkway and the economy lot. The area of the GSE and ARFF station will only give enough room for terminal, jet ways and ramp. When a plane pushes back it would have to push back directly on to the two active taxiways. That would block ramp 1 access from the north at every push back.
 
bkflyguy
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:25 pm

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:29 pm

The breadth of airline route planning and construction expertise on A.net is really quite remarkable.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:30 pm

n2dru wrote:
Those new gates on T are definitely for AA, so they can consolidate on T and UA. I'm sure AA would love the extra space, they are the 3rd largest carrier at ATL. They have a pretty nice setup with their check in counters right by a TSA screening area away from the main security checkpoint along with the Admirals club, gates and own baggage claim area. Was surprised AA was as large as they are here. That would free up gates on D for other carriers. I'm sure JetBlue, Spirit and Frontier would be happy. Maybe even expand since they would have the extra room. All 3 seem to be doing well in this market. Construction prices are soaring around the country but I agree that is quite expensive for 5 gates!



Yea with the current AA management team I doubt they will add any outside of the box flights. So to it's hubs and that's it, no P2P are focus cities for AA. Heck they won't even fight for Boston that the combined operation had a pretty good footprint at.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: The 5 New "T" Gates in ATL

Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:35 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
n2dru wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
ATL and the city of Atlanta are notoriously corrupt. I'm not bit surprised at the ridiculous cost for just five gates.



As is most US cities' governments.


It seems like some Atlanta politician is ways being indicted or investigated.

By comparison, CVG renovated the entire A concourse for only $1 million.


yea I don't agree that all cities Governments are corrupt. I'm leery though there is a huge amount of pocket stuffing going on.

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