Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
mercure1 wrote:I guess countries like New Zealand, Switzerland missed out again.
The ANA-JAL split seems pretty good.
Suppose we will see JAL transfer its Helsinki service to HND.
Wonder where in Italy ANA will go - MXP or FCO? They currently codeshare with AZ to both
The India 0.5 for each far from ideal.
Where in "Scandinavia" will ANA go - ARN, CPH, OSL?
The U.S. allocations will also be interesting to see what the airlines pick in coordination with their JV partners.
mercure1 wrote:I guess countries like New Zealand, Switzerland missed out again.
mercure1 wrote:I guess countries like New Zealand, Switzerland missed out again.
The ANA-JAL split seems pretty good.
Suppose we will see JAL transfer its Helsinki service to HND.
Wonder where in Italy ANA will go - MXP or FCO? They currently codeshare with AZ to both
The India 0.5 for each far from ideal.
Where in "Scandinavia" will ANA go - ARN, CPH, OSL?
The U.S. allocations will also be interesting to see what the airlines pick in coordination with their JV partners.
Jetty wrote:mercure1 wrote:I guess countries like New Zealand, Switzerland missed out again.
I'd say AMS/The Netherlands is the biggest loser here: AMS will be the only airport with more than daily NRT service by the local carrier in a country with no HND slots.
LondonXtreme wrote:We will see how NH and JL utilise valuable slots for China. Typically, they will only consider PVG and PEK. If both NH and JL plan 1 for each, I guess NH and JL will end NRT-PEK. The demand between PEK-TYO is way less compare to PVG-TYO.
LAXintl wrote:Foreign route allocation for ANA - JAL
ANA
USA - 6
China - 2
Russia - 1
Australia - 1
India - 0.5
Italy - 1
Turkey - 1
Scandinavia - 1
JAL
USA - 6
China - 2
Russia - 1
Australia - 1
India - 0.5
Finland - 1
LondonXtreme wrote:mercure1 wrote:I guess countries like New Zealand, Switzerland missed out again.
The ANA-JAL split seems pretty good.
Suppose we will see JAL transfer its Helsinki service to HND.
Wonder where in Italy ANA will go - MXP or FCO? They currently codeshare with AZ to both
The India 0.5 for each far from ideal.
Where in "Scandinavia" will ANA go - ARN, CPH, OSL?
The U.S. allocations will also be interesting to see what the airlines pick in coordination with their JV partners.
AY and TK will transfer existing NRT flights to HND
LAXintl wrote:Foreign route allocation for ANA - JAL
ANA
USA - 6
China - 2
Russia - 1
Australia - 1
India - 0.5
Italy - 1
Turkey - 1
Scandinavia - 1
JAL
USA - 6
China - 2
Russia - 1
Australia - 1
India - 0.5
Finland - 1
deltacto wrote:LAXintl wrote:Foreign route allocation for ANA - JAL
ANA
USA - 6
China - 2
Russia - 1
Australia - 1
India - 0.5
Italy - 1
Turkey - 1
Scandinavia - 1
JAL
USA - 6
China - 2
Russia - 1
Australia - 1
India - 0.5
Finland - 1
How will JAL and ANA each use half a slot for India?
deltacto wrote:LAXintl wrote:Foreign route allocation for ANA - JAL
ANA
USA - 6
China - 2
Russia - 1
Australia - 1
India - 0.5
Italy - 1
Turkey - 1
Scandinavia - 1
JAL
USA - 6
China - 2
Russia - 1
Australia - 1
India - 0.5
Finland - 1
How will JAL and ANA each use half a slot for India?
LAXdude1023 wrote:So how would NH/JL use their US slots? I’d think shifting IAH for NH would be a shoe in. Same for DFW and JL
centrair wrote:Exciting!!!! Look forward to some new movements at HND... with ANA moving international to T1 to integrate with domestic, it’ll become a very different international terminal.
QuawerAir wrote:LondonXtreme wrote:mercure1 wrote:I guess countries like New Zealand, Switzerland missed out again.
The ANA-JAL split seems pretty good.
Suppose we will see JAL transfer its Helsinki service to HND.
Wonder where in Italy ANA will go - MXP or FCO? They currently codeshare with AZ to both
The India 0.5 for each far from ideal.
Where in "Scandinavia" will ANA go - ARN, CPH, OSL?
The U.S. allocations will also be interesting to see what the airlines pick in coordination with their JV partners.
AY and TK will transfer existing NRT flights to HND
I don't think AY will move its NRT flights to HND anytime soon. It's more likely that AY will open HND route with A350 while maintaining its 2 daily NRT flights.
LAXintl wrote:The non-US International awards are out today:
By country:
China - 4
Russia - 2
Australia - 2
India - 1
Italy - 1
Turkey - 1
Finland - 1
"Scandinavia" - 1
https://www.mlit.go.jp/report/press/kou ... 00196.html
EFHK wrote:QuawerAir wrote:LondonXtreme wrote:AY and TK will transfer existing NRT flights to HND
I don't think AY will move its NRT flights to HND anytime soon. It's more likely that AY will open HND route with A350 while maintaining its 2 daily NRT flights.
Without more Russian overflight rights, AY can't just simply increase the number of flights to Japan without cutting something. If you see a 3rd frequency to TYO, what do you see would get cut?
I would see likely that they switch one frequency to HND, while keeping the other in NRT.
However, if they do indeed add HND as an additional frequency, with the current instability in HKG, the other daily frequency there would be a candidate to get cut in favor of HND.
Flanker7 wrote:Jetty wrote:mercure1 wrote:I guess countries like New Zealand, Switzerland missed out again.
I'd say AMS/The Netherlands is the biggest loser here: AMS will be the only airport with more than daily NRT service by the local carrier in a country with no HND slots.
Agreed, and that their partner airlines DL and AF are at Haneda.
QuawerAir wrote:That's actually a good point. I posted it without thinking any further. Yes, AY has to make some cuts if they'd fly to TYO 3 daily. One option is indeed swapping one daily NRT-flight to HND. Another option is that they decide with JAL to evade the Russian overflight restriction by launching HND–HEL service operated by JAL. Under the JV agreement, this is not completely out. They could also cut some HKG flight but I would not like to see that happen.
mmahpeel wrote:centrair wrote:Exciting!!!! Look forward to some new movements at HND... with ANA moving international to T1 to integrate with domestic, it’ll become a very different international terminal.
The ANA move to T1 is interesting. Isn't ANA at T2 for most domestic now? Are they consolidating all ANA ops at T1? I wonder if UA will stay at T3 (intl) then? I was looking for info on this but came up short. Do you have any links I can peruse?
centrair wrote:Exciting!!!! Look forward to some new movements at HND... with ANA moving international to T1 to integrate with domestic, it’ll become a very different international terminal.
Bazooka wrote:Will ANA fly it’s Superjumbo out of HND to HNL instead of NRT?
wenders825 wrote:insane that Malaysia Airlines couldn't get in on this, yet all surrounding countries' flag carriers have service.
LAXintl wrote:wenders825 wrote:insane that Malaysia Airlines couldn't get in on this, yet all surrounding countries' flag carriers have service.
Malaysia was one of the first countries that gained HND access. Rights were however given to Air Asia by the Malaysian government.
LAXintl wrote:Foreign route allocation for ANA - JAL
ANA
USA - 6
China - 2
Russia - 1
Australia - 1
India - 0.5
Italy - 1
Turkey - 1
Scandinavia - 1
JAL
USA - 6
China - 2
Russia - 1
Australia - 1
India - 0.5
Finland - 1
EFHK wrote:QuawerAir wrote:LondonXtreme wrote:AY and TK will transfer existing NRT flights to HND
I don't think AY will move its NRT flights to HND anytime soon. It's more likely that AY will open HND route with A350 while maintaining its 2 daily NRT flights.
Without more Russian overflight rights, AY can't just simply increase the number of flights to Japan without cutting something. If you see a 3rd frequency to TYO, what do you see would get cut?
I would see likely that they switch one frequency to HND, while keeping the other in NRT.
However, if they do indeed add HND as an additional frequency, with the current instability in HKG, the other daily frequency there would be a candidate to get cut in favor of HND.
I think it's a mistake by the OP. ANA is consolidating at T2 (NOT T1). T1 is JAL while T2 is ANA.
https://www.tokyo-airport-bldg.co.jp/fi ... 5_0617.pdf
It's basically a new CIQ (Custom/Immigration/Quarantine) facility and conversion of that wing to 5 gates that is shared between International and Domestic flights, and 2 International-exclusive gates.
Not sure whether UA can fit in there, though. There are just not enough gates.
hooverman wrote:Flanker7 wrote:Jetty wrote:I'd say AMS/The Netherlands is the biggest loser here: AMS will be the only airport with more than daily NRT service by the local carrier in a country with no HND slots.
Agreed, and that their partner airlines DL and AF are at Haneda.
Are you sure KLM even wants to fly to HND?
Perhaps NRT is more attractive for KLM as others are leaving for HND.
LAXintl wrote:The non-US International awards are out today:
By country:
China - 4
Russia - 2
Australia - 2
India - 1
Italy - 1
Turkey - 1
Finland - 1
"Scandinavia" - 1
https://www.mlit.go.jp/report/press/kou ... 00196.html
Waterbomber2 wrote:So how does this work?
The slots have been allocated to Japanese airlines, are they allowed to lease out the slots to their partners?
It's surprising that HND would waste a slot on HEL despite that most traffic on this route is not O&D. I wonder if it will be used for growth or JL to transfer its service.
janders wrote:What are odds one of the Australia rights goes to Virgin Australia?
QF already has a HND service. Are they really entitled to both additional new frequencies?
Waterbomber2 wrote:So how does this work?
The slots have been allocated to Japanese airlines, are they allowed to lease out the slots to their partners?
It's surprising that HND would waste a slot on HEL despite that most traffic on this route is not O&D. I wonder if it will be used for growth or JL to transfer its service.
UAEflyer wrote:For many years the UAE government has been asking for a HND slot for EY and additional for EK. It seems no luck !
janders wrote:What are odds one of the Australia rights goes to Virgin Australia?
QF already has a HND service. Are they really entitled to both additional new frequencies?
nicode wrote:Why so much slots allocation for USA only ?
Sydscott wrote:- a more extensive codeshare relationship between QF and JL to make up for the 744 lost capacity on SYD-HND; or
- a joint venture application between QF and JL for Australia - Japan routes.
Planes4you wrote:I’m betting JAL will move NRT-DFW to HND-DFW so they can send the 777
Jetty wrote:hooverman wrote:Flanker7 wrote:Agreed, and that their partner airlines DL and AF are at Haneda.
Are you sure KLM even wants to fly to HND?
Perhaps NRT is more attractive for KLM as others are leaving for HND.
I see no reason why specifically KLM would prefer NRT above HND when every other airline seems to prefer HND.
Most likely the reason that The Netherlands is denied a slot is that ANA and JAL have no interest in flying to AMS at the moment, as it seems they do plan on using all other frequencies. Either because there might be no slots available at AMS or in ANA’s case that they’ve just started flights to BRU that yet have to develop and AMS being close (there is no other airline flying more than 5-weekly between BRU and Asia, and ANA is the only airline with daily flights that chose BRU over AMS).
hooverman wrote:Most likely the reason that The Netherlands is denied a slot is that ANA and JAL have no interest in flying to AMS at the moment, as it seems they do plan on using all other frequencies. Either because there might be no slots available at AMS or in ANA’s case that they’ve just started flights to BRU that yet have to develop and AMS being close (there is no other airline flying more than 5-weekly between BRU and Asia, and ANA is the only airline with daily flights that chose BRU over AMS).
It is taking a long time for JAL or ANA to (re)start AMS(on a sidenote)
UAEflyer wrote:For many years the UAE government has been asking for a HND slot for EY and additional for EK. It seems no luck !
clrd4t8koff wrote:Planes4you wrote:I’m betting JAL will move NRT-DFW to HND-DFW so they can send the 777
Why would JL need to move DFW to HND to send the 777 when they could send the 777 from NRT today???
LAXdude1023 wrote:So how would NH/JL use their US slots? I’d think shifting IAH for NH would be a shoe in. Same for DFW and JL
eamondzhang wrote:Sydscott wrote:- a more extensive codeshare relationship between QF and JL to make up for the 744 lost capacity on SYD-HND; or
- a joint venture application between QF and JL for Australia - Japan routes.
Think this two are highly unlikely given they'll still command about 75-80% of total market share with any sort of cooperation, regardless of where ANA flies with its additional HND slot. Any applications will likely be shot down by ACCC.
Michael
wenders825 wrote:insane that Malaysia Airlines couldn't get in on this, yet all surrounding countries' flag carriers have service.
Sydscott wrote:eamondzhang wrote:Sydscott wrote:- a more extensive codeshare relationship between QF and JL to make up for the 744 lost capacity on SYD-HND; or
- a joint venture application between QF and JL for Australia - Japan routes.
Think this two are highly unlikely given they'll still command about 75-80% of total market share with any sort of cooperation, regardless of where ANA flies with its additional HND slot. Any applications will likely be shot down by ACCC.
Michael
I wouldn't be so sure as an ACCC position will take into account both the direct and indirect marketshare of Qantas and JAL in their assessment. There is also, in my opinion, no counterfactual position to take whereby competition emerges from the Australian side to Japan however that would also take into account the substantial amount of indirect competition for pax.
So it's not as straight forward as looking at direct marketshare.
mercure1 wrote:The India 0.5 for each far from ideal.
DWC wrote:Business wise, even politically wise, Amsterdam is not Tokyo, KLM surely wants to fly there, but why would the Japanese fly to a lesser Skyteam hub ? BRU is not the only one close to AMS, Star hubs CPH & FRA can serve it well, BA also from LHR.
Jetty wrote:DWC wrote:Business wise, even politically wise, Amsterdam is not Tokyo, KLM surely wants to fly there, but why would the Japanese fly to a lesser Skyteam hub ? BRU is not the only one close to AMS, Star hubs CPH & FRA can serve it well, BA also from LHR.
For the same reason AMS is served by an Asian airline from 10 out of 11 largest Asian airports, including by non-Skyteam airlines like SQ, BR and CX?