c933103
Topic Author
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Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:30 am

Because of the worsening relationship between Korea and Japan and that Korean are now boycotting tourism to Japan, travel demand between the two countries have lowered and Korean Air have announced a number of route suspension and frequency adjustment as a result of this. http://news1.kr/articles/?3699057
The following routes will be suspended:
Busan - Osaka Kansai (14x weekly; to be suspended from September 16)
Jeju - Osaka Kansai (4x weekly; to be suspended from November 1)
Jeju - Tokyo Narita (3x weekly; to be suspended from November 1)
The following routes will be suspended for a period of time:
Seoul Incheon - Komatsu (3x weekly; to be suspended from September 29 to November 16)
Seoul Incheon - Kagoshima (3x weekly; to be suspended from September 29 to November 16)
Seoul Incheon - Asahikawa (5x weekly; to be suspended from September 29 to October 26)
The following routes will be operated with reduced frequency for a period of time:
Seoul Incheon - Osaka Kansai (28→ 21 weekly; October 27 - November 16)
Seoul Incheon - Fukuoka (28→ 21 weekly; October 27 - November 16)
Seoul Incheon - Okinawa Naha (7→ 4 weekly; September 29 - November 16)
Busan - Tokyo Narita (14→ 7 weekly; September 29 - November 16)
Busan - Fukuoka (14→ 7 weekly; September 29 - November 16)
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TC957
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:40 am

The Korean LCC's are reducing or suspending services during that timescale too. Haven't read anything yet about what Asiana are doing. All in all not good when the Japan Rugby World Cup will be on, many fans will be connecting through ICN.
 
lhrsfosyd91
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 am

More likely that the supply adjusts itself after years and years of growth by the LCCs. Anyone got any stats as to the number of routes between the countries year by year?
 
upperdeckfan
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:01 am

c933103 wrote:
Because of the worsening relationship between Korea and Japan and that Korean are now boycotting tourism to Japan,


Wasn't aware of this, doesn't show up in european media
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kriskim
Posts: 373
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:25 am

I wonder how affected the Japanese carriers are, they have such little presence in Korea.
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TYWoolman
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:13 am

Can Delta get ANY luck in Japan?
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:28 am

TC957 wrote:
The Korean LCC's are reducing or suspending services during that timescale too. Haven't read anything yet about what Asiana are doing. All in all not good when the Japan Rugby World Cup will be on, many fans will be connecting through ICN.


https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -nov-2019/
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -aug-2019/

So far I only saw these two for Asiana. I would argue that Air Busan would probably be more affected, though.

But either way, from what I read Korean LCC are taking the blunt as it is the leisure travelers that are “boycotting” Japan.

kriskim wrote:
I wonder how affected the Japanese carriers are, they have such little presence in Korea.


Wouldn’t surprise me if Peach drop a few frequencies. JL/NH shouldn’t be affected too much for now, although if the trade spat continues, I would expect them to cut back the GMP-HND frequency to 2, along with downgauging.
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FromCDGtoSYD
Posts: 328
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:34 am

Most LCCs have dropped services. The most affected cities are the secondary market point to point routes from places la Daegu and Muan to name a few to secondary cities in Japan. Jeju and Busan have also been affected badly, korean media says korean tourist agencies such as Hana tour have seen an over 50% drop in forward bookings for trips to Japan and many cancellations in favor of Taiwan and Hong Kong.

The Seoul to Tokyo market is the least affected but I reckon that is an important enough of a market to justify the flights.

Incidently I have a few flights from GMP to HND next month in Y and they all seem empty, not sure if this is normal for the route so close to the departure date.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:11 pm

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Most LCCs have dropped services. The most affected cities are the secondary market point to point routes from places la Daegu and Muan to name a few to secondary cities in Japan. Jeju and Busan have also been affected badly, korean media says korean tourist agencies such as Hana tour have seen an over 50% drop in forward bookings for trips to Japan and many cancellations in favor of Taiwan and Hong Kong.


Seems like it's mostly Taiwan. Just skimming through schedule change lately, Asiana is shifting the A380 from ICN-NRT to ICN-TPE, while LCCs are increasing frequency to/from TPE and to lesser extent, KHH. The protests in HK is probably scaring some tourists away for now (Although HKG-ICN is well served as-is anyway).

Speaking of Taiwan - with the tourist ban from mainland China, the cross-strait flights are seeing tons of downgauges, i.e. A330 to A321 and A321 to A320 also. The increase in Korean tourist traffic should more than enough compensate for that, though (Plus Taiwanese probably love Korean tourists way more than mainland Chinese one anyway).
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FSDan
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:13 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Can Delta get ANY luck in Japan?


What do you mean? DL got 5 out of their requested 6 HND frequencies in the recent proceeding (and the one they didn't get was just a throwaway frequency increase on HND-HNL anyway), so I'd say they have had pretty good luck recently. Also, the demand from the U.S. to the secondary/tertiary Japanese destinations where KE is eliminating service would be a really insignificant part of the overall U.S.-Japan market.
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zakuivcustom
Posts: 2806
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:33 pm

FSDan wrote:
What do you mean? DL got 5 out of their requested 6 HND frequencies in the recent proceeding (and the one they didn't get was just a throwaway frequency increase on HND-HNL anyway), so I'd say they have had pretty good luck recently. Also, the demand from the U.S. to the secondary/tertiary Japanese destinations where KE is eliminating service would be a really insignificant part of the overall U.S.-Japan market.


Adding on - just looking at the schedule for ICN-KMQ/AKJ/KOJ, none of those flights connect well to DL's flight to/from ICN unless you originate in ATL anyway. Those Japanese flight leave in the morning, while DL's flights to/from ICN usually arrive around 3-4pm at ICN (except ATL-ICN which arrive at 4am).

People are simply not going to wait 15h at ICN when you can buy interline ticket or even separate tickets going to HND and fly to wherever you want in Japan from there. Hack, even going rail all the way (Which can take forever, i.e. Tokyo - Asahikawa would be something like 10h) is quicker than waiting 15h at ICN. And what's the PDEW from KMQ/AKJ/KOJ to US? Something like 20 combined?
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TYWoolman
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:07 pm

FSDan wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Can Delta get ANY luck in Japan?


What do you mean? DL got 5 out of their requested 6 HND frequencies in the recent proceeding (and the one they didn't get was just a throwaway frequency increase on HND-HNL anyway), so I'd say they have had pretty good luck recently. Also, the demand from the U.S. to the secondary/tertiary Japanese destinations where KE is eliminating service would be a really insignificant part of the overall U.S.-Japan market.



Haneda is definately a plus. But Delta has been squeezed out of every opportunity to work with a Japanese carrier. The only thing it has going for it relatively in that regard is service via Korean.
 
x1234
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:09 pm

Well they shouldn't reduce Okinawa to less than daily as that flight actually has US Military/Allied traffic on it. But this will soon be somewhat negated with US carriers flying into Haneda allowing seamless ANA/JAL connections to Okinawa from Haneda for US bound traffic.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2806
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:19 pm

x1234 wrote:
Well they shouldn't reduce Okinawa to less than daily as that flight actually has US Military/Allied traffic on it. But this will soon be somewhat negated with US carriers flying into Haneda allowing seamless ANA/JAL connections to Okinawa from Haneda for US bound traffic.


The KE ICN-OKA flight does not even connect that well with any of the US-ICN flights. That flight departs at 1535 from ICN, while the US-ICN flights either arrive at 4am or at 4-5pm. Same for the return - the OKA-ICN flight arrives at ICN at 2135, while the ICN-US flights depart either around 10am in the morning or 6-7pm in the evening.

Plus, there are 30+ flights daily from HND to OKA, and 6 flights (minimum) daily from NRT to OKA, with NH and JL (via GK) having a flight timed specifically for connection to/from US. Why would anyone pick ICN over connecting at TYO?
Last edited by zakuivcustom on Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jbs2886
Posts: 2147
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:19 pm

lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
More likely that the supply adjusts itself after years and years of growth by the LCCs. Anyone got any stats as to the number of routes between the countries year by year?


You must not be paying attention to the situation; its gotten quite bad. I suspect you'll see LCCs cut back too.

Plus, these were temporary cuts (not permanent). If the cuts were due to LCCs, it would be more than a couple of months.
 
klakzky123
Posts: 663
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:23 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
FSDan wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Can Delta get ANY luck in Japan?


What do you mean? DL got 5 out of their requested 6 HND frequencies in the recent proceeding (and the one they didn't get was just a throwaway frequency increase on HND-HNL anyway), so I'd say they have had pretty good luck recently. Also, the demand from the U.S. to the secondary/tertiary Japanese destinations where KE is eliminating service would be a really insignificant part of the overall U.S.-Japan market.



Haneda is definately a plus. But Delta has been squeezed out of every opportunity to work with a Japanese carrier. The only thing it has going for it relatively in that regard is service via Korean.


DL actually has its code on ANA domestic flights from HND (and some from NRT). Connecting to secondary Japanese cities via HND has always been available so regardless of KE's drop in service, there's still plenty of options to connect via HND.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2806
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:38 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
lhrsfosyd91 wrote:
More likely that the supply adjusts itself after years and years of growth by the LCCs. Anyone got any stats as to the number of routes between the countries year by year?


You must not be paying attention to the situation; its gotten quite bad. I suspect you'll see LCCs cut back too.

Plus, these were temporary cuts (not permanent). If the cuts were due to LCCs, it would be more than a couple of months.


The LCCs already cut back a LOT already:
https://www.routesonline.com/advanced-s ... =10&month=
https://www.routesonline.com/advanced-s ... ews&page=2

(Just look at all the "Japan Service Change" posts...there are too many of them for me to post individually).

The trade spat is hurting the Korean LCCs bottom line quite a bit also.
https://www.hmgaerospace.com/news/lara/ ... escalates/
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hoons90
Posts: 3547
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:32 am

As someone who loves both countries, it's such a shame to see tensions escalate to this point. As unrealistic as this sounds, I hope that both countries can set their differences aside and form a stronger bond to counter certain geopolitical threats in the region.

kriskim wrote:
I wonder how affected the Japanese carriers are, they have such little presence in Korea.


ANA and JAL can still rely on a Japanese point-of-sale advantage and corporate traffic. If anything I'd expect JL to downgauge the two 772 flights to a 788 before reducing frequencies (currently 2x 772 and 1x 788).

Peach is still flying its full schedule to Korea with 7 daily flights to ICN and daily flight to PUS.
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TYWoolman
Posts: 105
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:23 am

klakzky123 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
FSDan wrote:

What do you mean? DL got 5 out of their requested 6 HND frequencies in the recent proceeding (and the one they didn't get was just a throwaway frequency increase on HND-HNL anyway), so I'd say they have had pretty good luck recently. Also, the demand from the U.S. to the secondary/tertiary Japanese destinations where KE is eliminating service would be a really insignificant part of the overall U.S.-Japan market.



Haneda is definately a plus. But Delta has been squeezed out of every opportunity to work with a Japanese carrier. The only thing it has going for it relatively in that regard is service via Korean.


DL actually has its code on ANA domestic flights from HND (and some from NRT). Connecting to secondary Japanese cities via HND has always been available so regardless of KE's drop in service, there's still plenty of options to connect via HND.




What do you mean? I never saw this talked about or advertised.
 
ITSTours
Posts: 435
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:54 am

TYWoolman wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:


Haneda is definately a plus. But Delta has been squeezed out of every opportunity to work with a Japanese carrier. The only thing it has going for it relatively in that regard is service via Korean.


DL actually has its code on ANA domestic flights from HND (and some from NRT). Connecting to secondary Japanese cities via HND has always been available so regardless of KE's drop in service, there's still plenty of options to connect via HND.


What do you mean? I never saw this talked about or advertised.


I don't think they codeshare, but Delta.com indeed sells LAX-HND-FUK where HND-FUK is operated by ANA.
The price is actually a few dollars cheaper than KE ICN connection.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 105
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Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:10 pm

That's interesting. I guess Delta doesn't want to advertise this or make known since it would be free advertising for a *A carrier. Maybe back in the day they would have, but now ST, OW and *A have each become entities on to themselves.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2806
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Korean Air reduce service to Japan

Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:33 am

On a somewhat related note (Japanese only for now):
https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=2019 ... om-bus_all

Peach is also suspending a few Japan-South Korea routes:
CTS-ICN from 10/28 (This route was only started in March)
KIX-PUS from 1/7/2020
ICN-OKA suspended between 1/28-2/22/2020

KIX-ICN seems to survived for now, but not sure if frequencies were reduced or not (Right now it's 4 daily) in Winter Schedule.
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