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Zoedyn
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China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:29 pm

MU has set up a subsidiary which will exclusively operate China's home-grown jets including ARJ21, C919 by rebranding its Eastern Jets (in general aviation business) as Air 123 (in public transportation) .

The report says MU will receive its 1st ARJ21 next year in 2020 and, as the launch customer, the 1st C919 in 2021.

Interesting move!
Will CZ and CA follow suit soon?

东航成立新公司一二三航空 运营国产飞机MU sets up a new company to operate China-made jets
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:57 pm

Umm...didn't realized that MU actually ordered ARJ21. I guess those will come from leasing companies?

For CZ - perhaps they'll put C919 on Xiong'an Airlines?
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32andBelow
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:17 pm

That shows great confidence when you have to open a whole new subsidiary to fly planes that are allegedly safe
 
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Erebus
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:24 pm

32andBelow wrote:
That shows great confidence when you have to open a whole new subsidiary to fly planes that are allegedly safe


Ironic name too. Air 123 sounds like the kind of name I'd make for a test run, lol. (Sort of like "mic check 1.2.3.")
 
c933103
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:25 pm

32andBelow wrote:
That shows great confidence when you have to open a whole new subsidiary to fly planes that are allegedly safe

As already mentioned on another thread, it cime with great benefits that the brand bame will not be risked, and it's also easier to count whatever special financing arrangement it might be able to get because of those aircrafts
When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:27 pm

How did they think of that super original and awesome name...
 
Dominion301
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:12 pm

I wonder if the new Air 123 will feature a more basic version of China Eastern's outstanding livery. :stirthepot:
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:28 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
I wonder if the new Air 123 will feature a more basic version of China Eastern's outstanding livery. :stirthepot:


Well, if it looks like another Chinese airlines that use number in its name (9 Air), than it wouldn't be that bad.

Alternatively, they can do something similar to Afriqiyah's old livery (although the 9.9.99 DOES mean something) but put 123 on its tail :scratchchin: :scratchchin:
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ILNFlyer
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:37 pm

Just a matter of time before this happened.
 
Antarius
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:51 pm

The immediate association between 123 and aviation for me is, unfortunately, JL 123.

But the average flying public isn't an avgeek
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EChid
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:51 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Umm...didn't realized that MU actually ordered ARJ21. I guess those will come from leasing companies?

For CZ - perhaps they'll put C919 on Xiong'an Airlines?

I don't think any of these airlines really get a choice. They are probably 'allotted' a certain number of purchases. Just as the government is the doing the negotiations and purchases for orders from Boeing and Airbus that then get allocated to certain carriers.
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:44 pm

Antarius wrote:
The immediate association between 123 and aviation for me is, unfortunately, JL 123.

But the average flying public isn't an avgeek


If you Google "Air 123" all of the search results are for JL 123 as well
 
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zeke
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:23 pm

Astrojet727 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
The immediate association between 123 and aviation for me is, unfortunately, JL 123.

But the average flying public isn't an avgeek


If you Google "Air 123" all of the search results are for JL 123 as well


I think google is banned in China so any domestic searches will probably have some fictional results which are far from the truth. There is the real history, and then their is always the domestic reinvented version which may have no resemblance.

I don’t know if the translation of that is something more prestigious in simplified Chinese.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:56 pm

zeke wrote:
Astrojet727 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
The immediate association between 123 and aviation for me is, unfortunately, JL 123.

But the average flying public isn't an avgeek


If you Google "Air 123" all of the search results are for JL 123 as well


I think google is banned in China so any domestic searches will probably have some fictional results which are far from the truth. There is the real history, and then their is always the domestic reinvented version which may have no resemblance.

I don’t know if the translation of that is something more prestigious in simplified Chinese.


I got bored and did a search on Baidu, but couldn’t find much other than a few news article about the name change. JL123 also pop up in Baidu.

I did also saw a few random Chinese BBS post here and there, and the reaction there mostly goes “what a joke of a name” or “is this April’s fools” :white:
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Ziyulu
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:32 pm

I think this is perfect in case the aircraft has an accident, China Eastern's brand would not be tarnished.
 
OmerMaz
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:49 pm

Wasn't there a Thai carrier in the past named "One Two go"? Seems to be a tribute isn't it?
Besides, seeing "123" as a name for an airline truely brings chills of JAL 123...

Either way, it seems that safety isn't really an issue in the Chiness Aviation industry, I think that those C919s and ARJs will do just fine.
 
anrec80
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:52 pm

Well - there is a need apparently, given all recent U.S. leadership sanctions hobby, attacks against Huawei, ZTE, etc. As it turns out, in Washington there are like 10 offices who can impose sanctions. And if China Eastern will be mentioned in the wrong context - it will cease flying the next day, not being able to maintain Boeing and Airbus planes. They can’t take these risks apparently.

Well, congratulations Comac - with new clientele. And thank you Donald Trump for help in convincing Chinese airlines to by Chinese planes.
 
anrec80
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Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:58 pm

    OmerMaz wrote:
    Either way, it seems that safety isn't really an issue in the Chiness Aviation industry, I think that those C919s and ARJs will do just fine.


    Apparently they put technological sovereignty issues in front of safety.
     
    Ziyulu
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    Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

    Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:08 pm

    I wonder what the seat width is in these planes?
     
    pewpew320
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    Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

    Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:23 pm

    I don't blame them. Look how pathetic ARJ21 production is, and how unreliable it is. Why would you want substandard planes tainting your image.
     
    sincx
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    Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

    Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:25 pm

    anrec80 wrote:
      OmerMaz wrote:
      Either way, it seems that safety isn't really an issue in the Chiness Aviation industry, I think that those C919s and ARJs will do just fine.


      Apparently they put technological sovereignty issues in front of safety.


      After ZTE and Huawei, if any Chinese CEO doesn't have a plan for in case they get put on the Entities List, they're committing corporate malpractice.

      Also (knock on wood) I don't think the C919's safety record will be worse than the 737 Max's record. After what happened at Boeing, the CAAC will hopefully think twice before rubber-stamping anything questionable that COMAC puts out, unlike their counterparts at the FAA.
       
      anrec80
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      Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

      Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:35 pm

      sincx wrote:
      After ZTE and Huawei, if any Chinese CEO doesn't have a plan for in case they get put on the Entities List, they're committing corporate malpractice.


      Can’t agree more - perfectly prudent thing to do. Reduce reliance on American entities as much as you can - to the point of eliminating American suppliers.

      sincx wrote:
      Also (knock on wood) I don't think the C919's safety record will be worse than the 737 Max's record. After what happened at Boeing, the CAAC will hopefully think twice before rubber-stamping anything questionable that COMAC puts out, unlike their counterparts at the FAA.


      We all hope C919 will do fine safety wise.
       
      hoons90
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      Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

      Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:19 am

      A cheap name totally fit for an outfit that flies dollar-store versions of the 717.
      The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
       
      B1168
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      Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

      Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:58 am

      The whole idea of "123" comes from the Daodejing, excerpted as such:
      "Dao begets One (nothingness; or reason of being), One begets Two (yin and yang), Two begets Three (Heaven, Earth and Man; or yin, yang and breath qi), Three begets all things."
      Well, that is actually unexpected, but OK.
       
      c933103
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      Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

      Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:09 am

      B1168 wrote:
      The whole idea of "123" comes from the Daodejing, excerpted as such:
      "Dao begets One (nothingness; or reason of being), One begets Two (yin and yang), Two begets Three (Heaven, Earth and Man; or yin, yang and breath qi), Three begets all things."
      Well, that is actually unexpected, but OK.

      I guess that mean it's not complete until C939?
      When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
       
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      Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

      Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:12 am

      anrec80 wrote:
      Well - there is a need apparently, given all recent U.S. leadership sanctions hobby, attacks against Huawei, ZTE, etc. As it turns out, in Washington there are like 10 offices who can impose sanctions. And if China Eastern will be mentioned in the wrong context - it will cease flying the next day, not being able to maintain Boeing and Airbus planes. They can’t take these risks apparently.

      Well, congratulations Comac - with new clientele. And thank you Donald Trump for help in convincing Chinese airlines to by Chinese planes.

      China Eastern itself probably have closer connection to the Chinese government than Comac.
      When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
       
      OmerMaz
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      Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

      Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:00 am

      sincx wrote:
      anrec80 wrote:
        OmerMaz wrote:
        Either way, it seems that safety isn't really an issue in the Chiness Aviation industry, I think that those C919s and ARJs will do just fine.


        Apparently they put technological sovereignty issues in front of safety.


        After ZTE and Huawei, if any Chinese CEO doesn't have a plan for in case they get put on the Entities List, they're committing corporate malpractice.

        Also (knock on wood) I don't think the C919's safety record will be worse than the 737 Max's record. After what happened at Boeing, the CAAC will hopefully think twice before rubber-stamping anything questionable that COMAC puts out, unlike their counterparts at the FAA.



        Then again, we'll have to wait and see how the first few years of flying of the C919 will work out, hope for the best.
         
        Someone83
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:06 am

        Any links to an English speaking news site about this?
         
        kelval
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:49 pm

        In a a way, this also means the Chinese carriers don't have high hopes for the COMAC products.
         
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        Erebus
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:40 pm

        kelval wrote:
        In a a way, this also means the Chinese carriers don't have high hopes for the COMAC products.


        How much confidence do you think the Chinese government and other appointed public officials have in their own products? Will they make Air 123 their first choice carrier where possible?
         
        anrec80
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:40 pm

        kelval wrote:
        In a a way, this also means the Chinese carriers don't have high hopes for the COMAC products.


        It was the same story with Russian carriers - they didn’t have confidence in anything local offered. Until recent sanctions that was. Now they do. They bought up all MS-21 slots and want a 70 seater SSJ. No convincing was required.

        Same with China - they have to decide between relying on Comac they claim to have no confidence in, or play Russian roulette with US government’s sanctions fashion, where nobody can be confident of anything either.
         
        c933103
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:53 pm

        anrec80 wrote:
        kelval wrote:
        In a a way, this also means the Chinese carriers don't have high hopes for the COMAC products.


        It was the same story with Russian carriers - they didn’t have confidence in anything local offered. Until recent sanctions that was. Now they do. They bought up all MS-21 slots and want a 70 seater SSJ. No convincing was required.

        Same with China - they have to decide between relying on Comac they claim to have no confidence in, or play Russian roulette with US government’s sanctions fashion, where nobody can be confident of anything either.

        It's simple - Don't violate sanctions then you won't be sanctioned. Sure Trump have been using Huawei and ZTE as its cards when playing against China on trade issues, but they can't become such a card if it were not for them being caught dealing with Iran and selling them products with American components in the first place.
        Russia is different in the sense that Russia itself is the target of sanctions - but that is not the situation of China for now.
        When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
         
        Newark727
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:08 pm

        So plenty of airlines have subsidiaries that have different hubs, route networks, or products/fares, but separating out a subsidiary based on airplane type seems like something pretty unusual. How would MU set this up? What routes would they keep mainline, what routes would go to 123, and how do they decide?
         
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        lightsaber
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:27 pm

        Newark727 wrote:
        So plenty of airlines have subsidiaries that have different hubs, route networks, or products/fares, but separating out a subsidiary based on airplane type seems like something pretty unusual. How would MU set this up? What routes would they keep mainline, what routes would go to 123, and how do they decide?

        I believe this unusual setup is to bill for unexpected costs with issues. If they must staff up mechanics, it will be clear in the charging.

        The more I think about this, the more I'm certain this is to track all expenses related to the ARJ-21 and C919 and to clearly benchmark versus Western aircraft everything:. Utilization, dispatch reliability, fuel burn, maintenance, training, and costs.

        Lightsaber
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        anrec80
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:43 pm

        c933103 wrote:
        It's simple - Don't violate sanctions then you won't be sanctioned.


        And is there an independent process to determine whether or not sanctions are violated or not? No, of course. In Washington, there are President Administration, State Dept., Congress, then there are Departments of Energy, Finance, Justice, Homeland Security - every single one of those can maintain its own sanction list, and it’s totally up to their discretion, without any ability to change anything. Not too long ago they claimed that ZTE violated Iran sanctions, tomorrow they will claim that someone else broke Cuban sanctions (even though there is nothing to do in Cuba).

        c933103 wrote:
        Sure Trump have been using Huawei and ZTE as its cards when playing against China on trade issues, but they can't become such a card if it were not for them being caught dealing with Iran and selling them products with American components in the first place.


        Easily. Too many groundless accusations lately. It’s about current moods and interests in Washington, and not actuality at all. And this is a really strong reason to avoid dealing with American suppliers.

        c933103 wrote:
        Russia is different in the sense that Russia itself is the target of sanctions - but that is not the situation of China for now.


        Bingo. Today it’s Russia, tomorrow - it’s China, some European country, anyone else. Russia alone had 70+ sanctions packages already by now, 3/4 of which duplicate one another. All to no avail of course. Not too many countries left who weren’t affected by this sanctions craze - even Europeans keep receiving threats. And vast majority of them aren’t related to anything of course.

        What did Rusal have to do with anything? A typical private company, with investments all over the place. They have plants and provide jobs, pay taxes in the USA - what’s someone’s problem? What’s the deal with Venezuelan PDVSA? Yes, Venezuelan president has a long tongue, but that’s all about it. There never has been any threats to US interests or security, PDVSA was operating in the USA legally, again, paying taxes and providing jobs.

        It’s natural that nobody wants to take such risks. Really dumb - USA is creating themselves strong competition, for absolutely no reason, when nobody is looking at any sorts of alternate offerings, in the areas with highest added value.
         
        anrec80
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:47 pm

        lightsaber wrote:
        The more I think about this, the more I'm certain this is to track all expenses related to the ARJ-21 and C919 and to clearly benchmark versus Western aircraft everything:. Utilization, dispatch reliability, fuel burn, maintenance, training, and costs.

        Lightsaber


        In this political climate, it’s not about benchmarks. It’s about having in-house or at least alternative suppliers to everything that is needed to run a modern economy - in this context it’s planes, but also can be CPUs, machinery, online services, financial infrastructure.
         
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        seabosdca
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:48 pm

        Now we know which Chinese airline not to book.

        (This is not a comment on safety, but on the support and reliability challenges that will happen with these aircraft.)
         
        c933103
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:07 pm

        anrec80 wrote:
        c933103 wrote:
        It's simple - Don't violate sanctions then you won't be sanctioned.


        And is there an independent process to determine whether or not sanctions are violated or not? No, of course. In Washington, there are President Administration, State Dept., Congress, then there are Departments of Energy, Finance, Justice, Homeland Security - every single one of those can maintain its own sanction list, and it’s totally up to their discretion, without any ability to change anything. Not too long ago they claimed that ZTE violated Iran sanctions, tomorrow they will claim that someone else broke Cuban sanctions (even though there is nothing to do in Cuba).

        c933103 wrote:
        Sure Trump have been using Huawei and ZTE as its cards when playing against China on trade issues, but they can't become such a card if it were not for them being caught dealing with Iran and selling them products with American components in the first place.


        Easily. Too many groundless accusations lately. It’s about current moods and interests in Washington, and not actuality at all. And this is a really strong reason to avoid dealing with American suppliers.

        c933103 wrote:
        Russia is different in the sense that Russia itself is the target of sanctions - but that is not the situation of China for now.


        Bingo. Today it’s Russia, tomorrow - it’s China, some European country, anyone else. Russia alone had 70+ sanctions packages already by now, 3/4 of which duplicate one another. All to no avail of course. Not too many countries left who weren’t affected by this sanctions craze - even Europeans keep receiving threats. And vast majority of them aren’t related to anything of course.

        What did Rusal have to do with anything? A typical private company, with investments all over the place. They have plants and provide jobs, pay taxes in the USA - what’s someone’s problem? What’s the deal with Venezuelan PDVSA? Yes, Venezuelan president has a long tongue, but that’s all about it. There never has been any threats to US interests or security, PDVSA was operating in the USA legally, again, paying taxes and providing jobs.

        It’s natural that nobody wants to take such risks. Really dumb - USA is creating themselves strong competition, for absolutely no reason, when nobody is looking at any sorts of alternate offerings, in the areas with highest added value.

        1. ZTE was found to be violated the Iran sanction. They get itself away from the situation by agreeing to comply with American regulation and supplying evidence of Huawei's violation.
        2. China have been building up its belt and road program to prepare itself for what will happen if they are blocked from western economy.
        When no other countries around the world is going to militarily stop China and its subordinate fom abusing its citizens within its national boundary, it is unreasonable to expect those abuse can be countered with purely peaceful means.
         
        zakuivcustom
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:52 pm

        c933103 wrote:
        2. China have been building up its belt and road program to prepare itself for what will happen if they are blocked from western economy.


        It's all neocolonialism anyway. Belt and Road is basically turning all those African countries and Central Asian countries into Banana Republics.

        To certain extent, yes, it's to make sure they have certain resources (mainly natural resource) in the case of blockade, along with guaranteeing themselves a market where they can sell things to.
        On the other hand, it doesn't help much on the "knowledge economy" side, i.e. when it comes to advance technology, those Belt and Road nations are not going to help much.

        Side note - while we're talking about ARJ21, I was looking at Chengdu Airlines' schedule, and well, they're running the following on ARJ21 right now:
        CTU-LFQ-HRB 7/wk
        CTU-HNY-JJN 4/wk [1357]
        CTU-SQD-HSN 4/wk [1357]
        CTU-YYA-SHA 3/wk [246]
        HRB-HEK 7/wk
        HRB-DTU-NZH 7/wk

        So that's 4 daily round trips, plus 4 round trips per week, using 12 planes :banghead:
        Free Hong Kong! Free China!
         
        ScottB
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:35 pm

        Erebus wrote:
        Ironic name too. Air 123 sounds like the kind of name I'd make for a test run, lol. (Sort of like "mic check 1.2.3.")


        Seems like a really poor choice for an airline name in China. What comes after 1, 2, 3? The joke of "fly Air 123, then 4" seems to make itself.
         
        kelval
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:35 pm

        c933103 wrote:
        anrec80 wrote:
        kelval wrote:
        In a a way, this also means the Chinese carriers don't have high hopes for the COMAC products.


        It was the same story with Russian carriers - they didn’t have confidence in anything local offered. Until recent sanctions that was. Now they do. They bought up all MS-21 slots and want a 70 seater SSJ. No convincing was required.

        Same with China - they have to decide between relying on Comac they claim to have no confidence in, or play Russian roulette with US government’s sanctions fashion, where nobody can be confident of anything either.

        It's simple - Don't violate sanctions then you won't be sanctioned. Sure Trump have been using Huawei and ZTE as its cards when playing against China on trade issues, but they can't become such a card if it were not for them being caught dealing with Iran and selling them products with American components in the first place.
        Russia is different in the sense that Russia itself is the target of sanctions - but that is not the situation of China for now.


        Uh, I didn't intend to turn this into China vs USA commercial war stuff.
        Just meant what I wrote: I don't think the Chinese airlines have much confidence in the C919, and obviously in the ARJ 21. Pretty much like anyone out here.
        Lightsaber is most likely in the right with his opinion.
        I'll add that if the "debugging" of the planes is really painfull (it most likely will be), or worse, deadly, it preserves the main company's brand, and allows to account precisely for the losses (as a negotiation tool with the central powers maybe?).
         
        User avatar
        Revelation
        Posts: 21362
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:37 pm

        anrec80 wrote:
        Can’t agree more - perfectly prudent thing to do. Reduce reliance on American entities as much as you can - to the point of eliminating American suppliers.

        I think I see a problem with that:

        Image
        Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
        The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
        Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
        The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
         
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        Erebus
        Posts: 1044
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:20 pm

        Revelation wrote:
        anrec80 wrote:
        Can’t agree more - perfectly prudent thing to do. Reduce reliance on American entities as much as you can - to the point of eliminating American suppliers.

        I think I see a problem with that:

        Image


        So going by that pic, pretty much just the empty shell is made in China. Everything else that makes the thing fly comes from Western suppliers.
         
        TWA902fly
        Posts: 3058
        Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:28 pm

        anrec80 wrote:
        kelval wrote:
        In a a way, this also means the Chinese carriers don't have high hopes for the COMAC products.


        It was the same story with Russian carriers - they didn’t have confidence in anything local offered. Until recent sanctions that was. Now they do. They bought up all MS-21 slots and want a 70 seater SSJ. No convincing was required.

        Same with China - they have to decide between relying on Comac they claim to have no confidence in, or play Russian roulette with US government’s sanctions fashion, where nobody can be confident of anything either.


        The biggest difference here is that Russia/Soviet Union actually has experience manufacturing commercial aircraft. China - not so much.

        '902
        life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
         
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        Revelation
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        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:29 pm

        Erebus wrote:
        So going by that pic, pretty much just the empty shell is made in China. Everything else that makes the thing fly comes from Western suppliers.

        They have a handle on the belt and the road but not on the sky.
        Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
        The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
        Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
        The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
         
        zakuivcustom
        Posts: 2797
        Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:31 pm

        Erebus wrote:
        Revelation wrote:
        anrec80 wrote:
        Can’t agree more - perfectly prudent thing to do. Reduce reliance on American entities as much as you can - to the point of eliminating American suppliers.

        I think I see a problem with that:

        Image


        So going by that pic, pretty much just the empty shell is made in China. Everything else that makes the thing fly comes from Western suppliers.


        Essentially, yes.

        For the engine there is the AVIC CJ-1000 that is under development also. Of course, performance of that engine is not really known.

        China would eventually move to all Chinese component, of course, by “developing” (aka reverse engineering or outright stealing) those foreign technologies.
        Free Hong Kong! Free China!
         
        Ziyulu
        Posts: 631
        Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:04 pm

        Who knows, with the 737 Max problems, maybe UA, AA, and WN would be interested in this plane?
         
        strfyr51
        Posts: 3929
        Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:29 pm

        If China can support that airplane to international standards IN China? Then? They might be able to sell it anywhere it anywhere in the world, BUT! It had better be stellar in China FIRST! with proven engineering and parts support.
         
        anrec80
        Posts: 2086
        Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:27 am

        Revelation wrote:
        anrec80 wrote:
        Can’t agree more - perfectly prudent thing to do. Reduce reliance on American entities as much as you can - to the point of eliminating American suppliers.

        I think I see a problem with that:

        Image


        Yes, a known problem. Current variant of SSJ has it too. Irkut MS-21 however does not. The only major dependency on the USA in that plane was composite fiber - and as soon as that got under sanctions, there came up a Russian supplier. Yes, that caused a small (a few months) launch delay, but several million USD per plane will remain in Russia, and not produce scarce middle class jobs and tax revenue for the USA. And I am sure Comac and Chinese government are working on a solution to this problem, and the next iteration of C919 will be much more Chinese.
         
        anrec80
        Posts: 2086
        Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

        Re: China Eastern sets up Air 123 to exclusively fly home-grown Chinese jets including ARJ21, C919

        Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:30 am

        TWA902fly wrote:

        The biggest difference here is that Russia/Soviet Union actually has experience manufacturing commercial aircraft. China - not so much.

        '902


        Experience is attainable. They might or might have not attain all the experience at once, but now they have to.

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