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Boston757
Topic Author
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:39 pm

Re: American Airlines Boston LHR, CDG and other Europe

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:47 am

Currently, yes the 321-t is still in Boston then it’s off to Miami in a few months.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: American Airlines Boston LHr, CDG and other Europe.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:44 pm

Cunard wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:

Pan Am flew BOS-LHR in the 1960s and then there was some type of exchange where they dropped the route and started IAD-LHR instead. I’m not sure of the specifics, it was before my time.


Both PA and TWA had BOS-LHR authority prior to Bermuda II.

In the 1960s and 1970s, PA flew MSP-DTW-BOS-LHR as part of an interchange with NW. NW flew MSP-DTW, and PA flew DTW-BOS-LHR, with no change of aircraft. In 1976, PA was given local traffic rights on DTW-BOS; this was the first route PA was allowed to carry local passengers on in the 48 state US mainland.

The Bermuda II agreement in 1977 said all routes to the US could be served by either PA or TWA, but not both, with the exception of JFK and either BOS or LAX. The CAB gave Pan Am a choice between BOS-LHR or LAX-LHR, and PA chose to suspend BOS and serve LAX.

The US and Great Britain subsequently agreed to allow a second US carrier to fly from BOS to London, but that carrier had to serve LGW, not LHR. BOS-LGW was awarded to NW.


Well done for an excellent post and your correct with everything that you have wrote but if I could just add some detail to a slight error regarding LGW-BOS.

In 1978 World Airways were operating regular ABC flights between BOS and LGW almost on a daily basis with a mix of DC8-63 and DC10-30. World Airways applied to the DOT in 1979 for a scheduled license and to be awarded route authority for BOS to LGW

World Airways we're initially awarded a 12 month temporary route authority to fly from BOS to LGW which commenced in May 1980.

Routing was OAK-BOS-LGW-FRA six times weekly with DC10-30.

Northwest Orient we're subsequently awarded route authority for BOS to LGW which commenced on 01 June 1981.

Routing was DTW-BOS-LGW-FRA daily with B742.

World Airways we're subsequently awarded route authority for BWI to LGW which commenced in May 1982.

Routing was OAK-BWI-LGW-FRA six times weekly with DC10-30.

Northwest later changed BOS to LGW to DTW-LGW.

Routing was SEA-DTW-LGW-FRA daily with the B742, with the DC10-40 also appearing on the route.


Just to add to my above post.

World Airways we're awarded route authority for BWI to LGW which commenced in May 1981 (not May 1982 as I previously posted).
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: American Airlines Boston LHr, CDG and other Europe.

Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:07 pm

Cunard wrote:
Cunard wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:

Both PA and TWA had BOS-LHR authority prior to Bermuda II.

In the 1960s and 1970s, PA flew MSP-DTW-BOS-LHR as part of an interchange with NW. NW flew MSP-DTW, and PA flew DTW-BOS-LHR, with no change of aircraft. In 1976, PA was given local traffic rights on DTW-BOS; this was the first route PA was allowed to carry local passengers on in the 48 state US mainland.

The Bermuda II agreement in 1977 said all routes to the US could be served by either PA or TWA, but not both, with the exception of JFK and either BOS or LAX. The CAB gave Pan Am a choice between BOS-LHR or LAX-LHR, and PA chose to suspend BOS and serve LAX.

The US and Great Britain subsequently agreed to allow a second US carrier to fly from BOS to London, but that carrier had to serve LGW, not LHR. BOS-LGW was awarded to NW.


Well done for an excellent post and your correct with everything that you have wrote but if I could just add some detail to a slight error regarding LGW-BOS.

In 1978 World Airways were operating regular ABC flights between BOS and LGW almost on a daily basis with a mix of DC8-63 and DC10-30. World Airways applied to the DOT in 1979 for a scheduled license and to be awarded route authority for BOS to LGW

World Airways we're initially awarded a 12 month temporary route authority to fly from BOS to LGW which commenced in May 1980.

Routing was OAK-BOS-LGW-FRA six times weekly with DC10-30.

Northwest Orient we're subsequently awarded route authority for BOS to LGW which commenced on 01 June 1981.

Routing was DTW-BOS-LGW-FRA daily with B742.

World Airways we're subsequently awarded route authority for BWI to LGW which commenced in May 1982.

Routing was OAK-BWI-LGW-FRA six times weekly with DC10-30.

Northwest later changed BOS to LGW to DTW-LGW.

Routing was SEA-DTW-LGW-FRA daily with the B742, with the DC10-40 also appearing on the route.


Just to add to my above post.

World Airways we're awarded route authority for BWI to LGW which commenced in May 1981 (not May 1982 as I previously posted).


This is an excellent recap - thank you.

NW did not begin DTW-LGW nonstops until the mid 1990s.

At one time, PA and TWA both flew DTW-LHR. In 1974, TWA relinquished their DTW-London authority, in exchange for PA's authority to serve Dublin.

PA became the sole US carrier serving DTW-LHR. The route was flown via BOS before Bermuda II, then via IAD or JFK afterward. In the mid 1980s, PA resumed DTW-LHR nonstops, using A310s. These flights continued on to CLE.

When PA sold their London routes to UA in 1991, DTW (and MIA) were not included in the transaction, and shifted to LGW. DTW / MIA - LGW were sold to Delta shortly before PA's shutdown. DL flew DTW-LGW with L-1011-500s, but sold the route to NW around 1995.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: American Airlines Boston LHr, CDG and other Europe.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:12 am

WA707atMSP wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Cunard wrote:

Well done for an excellent post and your correct with everything that you have wrote but if I could just add some detail to a slight error regarding LGW-BOS.

In 1978 World Airways were operating regular ABC flights between BOS and LGW almost on a daily basis with a mix of DC8-63 and DC10-30. World Airways applied to the DOT in 1979 for a scheduled license and to be awarded route authority for BOS to LGW

World Airways we're initially awarded a 12 month temporary route authority to fly from BOS to LGW which commenced in May 1980.

Routing was OAK-BOS-LGW-FRA six times weekly with DC10-30.

Northwest Orient we're subsequently awarded route authority for BOS to LGW which commenced on 01 June 1981.

Routing was DTW-BOS-LGW-FRA daily with B742.

World Airways we're subsequently awarded route authority for BWI to LGW which commenced in May 1982.

Routing was OAK-BWI-LGW-FRA six times weekly with DC10-30.

Northwest later changed BOS to LGW to DTW-LGW.

Routing was SEA-DTW-LGW-FRA daily with the B742, with the DC10-40 also appearing on the route.


Just to add to my above post.

World Airways we're awarded route authority for BWI to LGW which commenced in May 1981 (not May 1982 as I previously posted).


This is an excellent recap - thank you.

NW did not begin DTW-LGW nonstops until the mid 1990s.

At one time, PA and TWA both flew DTW-LHR. In 1974, TWA relinquished their DTW-London authority, in exchange for PA's authority to serve Dublin.

PA became the sole US carrier serving DTW-LHR. The route was flown via BOS before Bermuda II, then via IAD or JFK afterward. In the mid 1980s, PA resumed DTW-LHR nonstops, using A310s. These flights continued on to CLE.

When PA sold their London routes to UA in 1991, DTW (and MIA) were not included in the transaction, and shifted to LGW. DTW / MIA - LGW were sold to Delta shortly before PA's shutdown. DL flew DTW-LGW with L-1011-500s, but sold the route to NW around 1995.


And I have to say that yours is also excellent recap :-)

You have filled in the additional information regarding the LHR to BOS and DFW flights with absolute accuracy :-)

Between our two posts I think that we have both given an excellent account of the flights being discussed :-)
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.

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