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smi0006
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:36 am

amirs wrote:
A flight report from one of the passengers
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... k-business


Interesting report. I really think the jet lag challenges are being over hyped - as someone who did shift work for 10years with common shift times up to 14-16hrs after a disrupted flight (without the luxury of horizontal rest like crew get, and only a couple of breaks max 1hr) it’s simply about being sensible eating, exercise when your off and being disciplined with your sleep. Or perhaps people aren’t aware how much of the population work doing shift work?

Bigger challenge is simply comfort in economy, but given our sedentary lifestyles these days I still don’t see a huge challenge. Bring on the non-stop flights for me!!
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:43 am

But having 3-3-3 in economy for 20 hours is punishment!
 
questions
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:50 am

Ziyulu wrote:
But having 3-3-3 in economy for 20 hours is punishment!


Agree. What is the pitch?
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:23 am

Ziyulu wrote:
But having 3-3-3 in economy for 20 hours is punishment!

I think a ULR subfleet with more comfortable premium Y seating may be necessary to avoid high passenger dissatisfaction and even potential lawsuits in the event a related medical issue arises (with possibly devastating results).
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:34 am

smi0006 wrote:
amirs wrote:
A flight report from one of the passengers
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... k-business


Interesting report. I really think the jet lag challenges are being over hyped - as someone who did shift work for 10years with common shift times up to 14-16hrs after a disrupted flight (without the luxury of horizontal rest like crew get, and only a couple of breaks max 1hr) it’s simply about being sensible eating, exercise when your off and being disciplined with your sleep. Or perhaps people aren’t aware how much of the population work doing shift work?

Bigger challenge is simply comfort in economy, but given our sedentary lifestyles these days I still don’t see a huge challenge. Bring on the non-stop flights for me!!

the torture!
Prawns in lime chille.
The sweet potato soup with creme fraiche is thick and luxurious with toasted cheese sandwich (I deleted comments as I LOVE gourmet toasted cheese sandwiches)

But... What was breakfast? The blog ended after 13 hours of the 19.5 hour flight. There had to be at least one more meal!

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Special
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:43 am

Anyone know how much fuel the aircraft landed with?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:43 am

Congratulations QF on a successful research flight.

If 40 pax were packed in J, I think 10 can survive in 28PE and 166Y. QF 789 PE is very good compared to SQ A350ULR.

I think J seat weight need to come down significantly. 180lbs-220lbs weight for one J seat is bit much. Lighter materials, less motors and light weight entertainment systems are the solution.

42J with avg weight 200lbs each = 4.2 tons
166Y+28PE with avg weight 15lbs each= 0.293 ton
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:54 am

lightsaber wrote:
But... What was breakfast? The blog ended after 13 hours of the 19.5 hour flight. There had to be at least one more meal!



Maybe the article has been updated, but it definitely covers the whole flight. Breakfast involves "ancient grains" and avocado puree.
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Pcoder
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:39 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Congratulations QF on a successful research flight.


I think "research" is a bit of a misnomer as the flight is of similar length to the existing EWR-SIN. I'm considering this a PR exercise as the main test should have been on economy passengers, since SQ "research" with premium economy and business daily.

Another tell tale sign of a Media stunt is the special pillows and other items and the flight was packed to the brim with media people.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:57 am

A review of the flight is now up at https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 787-flight.

Interesting images of passengers doing stretching exercises in economy, which was of course empty, and the galley. Qantas has said it will have some stretching areas on the Sunrise jets, probably near the exit doors, but I can't see there will be a lot of room there.
 
OmerMaz
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:08 am

I'd never thought it would be such a "tough regime" flight, but those passengers and flightcrew definitely earned an iron nerve...
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:35 am

questions wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
But having 3-3-3 in economy for 20 hours is punishment!


Agree. What is the pitch?


32" pitch and 17.2" width.
 
cpd
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:49 am

smi0006 wrote:
amirs wrote:
A flight report from one of the passengers
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... k-business


Interesting report. I really think the jet lag challenges are being over hyped - as someone who did shift work for 10years with common shift times up to 14-16hrs after a disrupted flight (without the luxury of horizontal rest like crew get, and only a couple of breaks max 1hr) it’s simply about being sensible eating, exercise when your off and being disciplined with your sleep. Or perhaps people aren’t aware how much of the population work doing shift work?

Bigger challenge is simply comfort in economy, but given our sedentary lifestyles these days I still don’t see a huge challenge. Bring on the non-stop flights for me!!


It's not even sedentary lifestyles, I'm extremely active and fit, but some taller people simply won't fit well in small economy class seats.

32" is not exactly that generous considering the time one would spend in that location. Maybe the real Project Sunrise planes might get something a bit more spacious.
 
chiki
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:54 am

Video of landing
https://twitter.com/breakingavnews/stat ... 89282?s=19

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tayser
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:59 am

Pcoder wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Congratulations QF on a successful research flight.


I think "research" is a bit of a misnomer as the flight is of similar length to the existing EWR-SIN. I'm considering this a PR exercise as the main test should have been on economy passengers, since SQ "research" with premium economy and business daily.

Another tell tale sign of a Media stunt is the special pillows and other items and the flight was packed to the brim with media people.


They're going to be doing an LHR-SYD research flight which is a longer distance (although flying eastward around the world)....

Anyhow, re: how much fuel was left, FR24 responded to the same question on their twitter: approx 6000kg of fuel left (started with 101,000kg): https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 6827850752
 
waly777
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:11 am

Pcoder wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Congratulations QF on a successful research flight.


I think "research" is a bit of a misnomer as the flight is of similar length to the existing EWR-SIN. I'm considering this a PR exercise as the main test should have been on economy passengers, since SQ "research" with premium economy and business daily.

Another tell tale sign of a Media stunt is the special pillows and other items and the flight was packed to the brim with media people.


At 19hrs and 15 mins flight, this was more than an hour longer than the average SQ21.

SQ21 has a block time of 18h45 mins but often has a flight time less than 18hrs. You can check the current flight (19oct departure) when it lands 4hrs from now, which should complete the flight in 17hrs 40 mins approximately.
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Pcoder
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:18 am

waly777 wrote:
Pcoder wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Congratulations QF on a successful research flight.


I think "research" is a bit of a misnomer as the flight is of similar length to the existing EWR-SIN. I'm considering this a PR exercise as the main test should have been on economy passengers, since SQ "research" with premium economy and business daily.

Another tell tale sign of a Media stunt is the special pillows and other items and the flight was packed to the brim with media people.


At 19hrs and 15 mins flight, this was more than an hour longer than the average SQ21.

SQ21 has a block time of 18h45 mins but often has a flight time less than 18hrs. You can check the current flight (19oct departure) when it lands 4hrs from now, which should complete the flight in 17hrs 40 mins approximately.


Its still not a lot of time difference. It would only take a day with strong headwinds and airport congestion to make SQ21 go as long. My point is that a flight already regularly does this similar trek with business and premium economy. A real test is for passengers in economy, which was not tested.

It looks too much of a PR stunt, rather then a practical test.
 
waly777
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:27 am

Pcoder wrote:
waly777 wrote:
Pcoder wrote:

I think "research" is a bit of a misnomer as the flight is of similar length to the existing EWR-SIN. I'm considering this a PR exercise as the main test should have been on economy passengers, since SQ "research" with premium economy and business daily.

Another tell tale sign of a Media stunt is the special pillows and other items and the flight was packed to the brim with media people.


At 19hrs and 15 mins flight, this was more than an hour longer than the average SQ21.

SQ21 has a block time of 18h45 mins but often has a flight time less than 18hrs. You can check the current flight (19oct departure) when it lands 4hrs from now, which should complete the flight in 17hrs 40 mins approximately.


Its still not a lot of time difference. It would only take a day with strong headwinds and airport congestion to make SQ21 go as long. My point is that a flight already regularly does this similar trek with business and premium economy. A real test is for passengers in economy, which was not tested.

It looks too much of a PR stunt, rather then a practical test.


I imagine the same headwinds would also affect the JFK to SYD flight.....

Yes, there is amazing PR being generated without a doubt but what right thinking airline does 3 of the longest ULH just for the sake of PR? If it was PR only, it would be 1 flight. The cost of these flights are no joke.

I read the crew had brain wave measurements being done for the duration of the flight to measure fatigue. I look forward to a write up from the crew or the researchers onboard. We already have a journalist's version. Perhaps you should read the posted article first...

"Marie Carroll, a professor at the University of Sydney who’s overseeing the passenger research on the flight, rallies her troops at the back of the plane. “This is the time, guys, when we really have to work through this,” she tells them. Moments later, they’re leaning against the food trolleys in the galley, stretching. Next, they perform upright press-ups among the empty economy sets. As a finale, they attempt synchronized dance moves in the aisles. All in the name of science."
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Pcoder
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:39 am

Part of the issue that I have with this too is that the media will not ask the tough questions, as what happened with Qantas and the arrival of the dreamliner, which turned into a puff piece bonanza.

https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episo ... ts/9972444
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:56 am

Special wrote:
Anyone know how much fuel the aircraft landed with?


70 minutes according to https://news.sky.com/story/after-10-000 ... y-11840142
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:39 am

Don’t understand why some people have dismissed the flight as a PR stunt. Sure, other airlines also have experience with ULR flights, but their data/analysis/experience isn’t going to be shared with their competitors. If the pax on board include journalists, so what? Why [u]wouldn’t[\u] you take advantage of the flight for a bit of PR?
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Pcoder
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:44 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Don’t understand why some people have dismissed the flight as a PR stunt. Sure, other airlines also have experience with ULR flights, but their data/analysis/experience isn’t going to be shared with their competitors. If the pax on board include journalists, so what? Why [u]wouldn’t[\u] you take advantage of the flight for a bit of PR?


Firstly, they could just buy tickets to SQ21 and do their own tests (they don't need to say their from Qantas) and secondly since economy is likely to be the largest passenger group and one most likely to be adversely affected, the tests should focus on them first.

They might redeem themselves with the later flights, but testing economy is very much needed, whereas Business and Premium Economy is almost tested every day by Singapore airlines.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:54 am

Pcoder wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Don’t understand why some people have dismissed the flight as a PR stunt. Sure, other airlines also have experience with ULR flights, but their data/analysis/experience isn’t going to be shared with their competitors. If the pax on board include journalists, so what? Why [u]wouldn’t[\u] you take advantage of the flight for a bit of PR?


Firstly, they could just buy tickets to SQ21 and do their own tests (they don't need to say their from Qantas) and secondly since economy is likely to be the largest passenger group and one most likely to be adversely affected, the tests should focus on them first.

They might redeem themselves with the later flights, but testing economy is very much needed, whereas Business and Premium Economy is almost tested every day by Singapore airlines.

LOL. You clearly have no idea what a research programme for anything looks like. You can’t just waltz onto others’ flights and get them to adjust their processes and procedures to suit your needs. Sorry, but this is comical.

In any event, what’s your actual objection to these flights? Is it just the extra hours of non-rev flying?
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bcworld
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:08 am

DavidByrne wrote:
LOL. You clearly have no idea what a research programme for anything looks like. You can’t just waltz onto others’ flights and get them to adjust their processes and procedures to suit your needs. Sorry, but this is comical.

In any event, what’s your actual objection to these flights? Is it just the extra hours of non-rev flying?


Unless Project Sunrise flights will be all business class with the economy cabin turned in to a dedicated yoga sala...what are they learning from a pax perspective?

With 50 pax on board, at least 9 of them should've been occupying a row up the back.
 
Pcoder
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:11 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Pcoder wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Don’t understand why some people have dismissed the flight as a PR stunt. Sure, other airlines also have experience with ULR flights, but their data/analysis/experience isn’t going to be shared with their competitors. If the pax on board include journalists, so what? Why [u]wouldn’t[\u] you take advantage of the flight for a bit of PR?


Firstly, they could just buy tickets to SQ21 and do their own tests (they don't need to say their from Qantas) and secondly since economy is likely to be the largest passenger group and one most likely to be adversely affected, the tests should focus on them first.

They might redeem themselves with the later flights, but testing economy is very much needed, whereas Business and Premium Economy is almost tested every day by Singapore airlines.

LOL. You clearly have no idea what a research programme for anything looks like. You can’t just waltz onto others’ flights and get them to adjust their processes and procedures to suit your needs. Sorry, but this is comical.

In any event, what’s your actual objection to these flights? Is it just the extra hours of non-rev flying?


I think your mistaken, all they have to have is one researcher and a couple of guinea pigs. They could have heart monitors on the test subjects, take blood pressure tests every so often, use laptops/ipads for reaction and cognitive ability, take mouth swabs, blood sugar level tests and many other tests that could be done with a Singapore flight. And since it is a university or other institution doing the research, there's unlikely to be any issues from the airline.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:54 am

During a Q&A session after landing in Sydney, Alan Joyce mentioned the plan is for Project Sunrise flights to begin in *2023* when the aircraft is available.

I believe they wanted to start the flights initially in 2022? Would this delay be related to waiting on Boeing’s proposal?

See Alan Joyce’s comments around 4:05 mark:
https://youtu.be/I2iAhgnnVhg
 
mmKUL
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:13 am

If this non stop route went in to service, are there any estimates of the increase in co2 emission per economy seat (vs same route with stop in same plane)?
 
smithhaddon123
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:32 am

What an excellent question, mmKUL.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:36 am

Guillaume787 wrote:
During a Q&A session after landing in Sydney, Alan Joyce mentioned the plan is for Project Sunrise flights to begin in *2023* when the aircraft is available.

I believe they wanted to start the flights initially in 2022? Would this delay be related to waiting on Boeing’s proposal?

See Alan Joyce’s comments around 4:05 mark:
https://youtu.be/I2iAhgnnVhg


It was mentioned a while back that first flight will be 2023 while first delivery will be in 2022 most likely q4 2022
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Pcoder
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:37 am

Guillaume787 wrote:
During a Q&A session after landing in Sydney, Alan Joyce mentioned the plan is for Project Sunrise flights to begin in *2023* when the aircraft is available.

I believe they wanted to start the flights initially in 2022? Would this delay be related to waiting on Boeing’s proposal?

See Alan Joyce’s comments around 4:05 mark:
https://youtu.be/I2iAhgnnVhg


They want the aircraft by 2022. As this is a new aircraft type, there will be a period of staff training, before it enters service. I think they mentioned this previously that the sunrise flights would start in 2023.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:41 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Don’t understand why some people have dismissed the flight as a PR stunt. Sure, other airlines also have experience with ULR flights, but their data/analysis/experience isn’t going to be shared with their competitors. If the pax on board include journalists, so what? Why [u]wouldn’t[\u] you take advantage of the flight for a bit of PR?


Because just how much useful data are QF really going to gather with so few pax?
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getluv
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:43 am

Pcoder wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Pcoder wrote:

Firstly, they could just buy tickets to SQ21 and do their own tests (they don't need to say their from Qantas) and secondly since economy is likely to be the largest passenger group and one most likely to be adversely affected, the tests should focus on them first.

They might redeem themselves with the later flights, but testing economy is very much needed, whereas Business and Premium Economy is almost tested every day by Singapore airlines.

LOL. You clearly have no idea what a research programme for anything looks like. You can’t just waltz onto others’ flights and get them to adjust their processes and procedures to suit your needs. Sorry, but this is comical.

In any event, what’s your actual objection to these flights? Is it just the extra hours of non-rev flying?


I think your mistaken, all they have to have is one researcher and a couple of guinea pigs. They could have heart monitors on the test subjects, take blood pressure tests every so often, use laptops/ipads for reaction and cognitive ability, take mouth swabs, blood sugar level tests and many other tests that could be done with a Singapore flight. And since it is a university or other institution doing the research, there's unlikely to be any issues from the airline.


Yes, I’m sure SQ is going to be receptive to allowing QF to test their pilots, crew and passengers.

What fantasy are you living in?
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getluv
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:47 am

scbriml wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Don’t understand why some people have dismissed the flight as a PR stunt. Sure, other airlines also have experience with ULR flights, but their data/analysis/experience isn’t going to be shared with their competitors. If the pax on board include journalists, so what? Why [u]wouldn’t[\u] you take advantage of the flight for a bit of PR?


Because just how much useful data are QF really going to gather with so few pax?


QF already have lots and lots of data. This is just extra validating data to provide CASA. CASA reps were also on this flight.

This is a very expensive exercise for simply just PR.
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flipdewaf
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:17 am

scbriml wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Don’t understand why some people have dismissed the flight as a PR stunt. Sure, other airlines also have experience with ULR flights, but their data/analysis/experience isn’t going to be shared with their competitors. If the pax on board include journalists, so what? Why [u]wouldn’t[\u] you take advantage of the flight for a bit of PR?


Because just how much useful data are QF really going to gather with so few pax?

It’s not about gathering data, it’s validation of models.

It’s the same as asking home much data can Boeing get by breaking just one set of wings?

Fred


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VV
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:25 am

Has 787-9 just set a record?

If that is the case then the "research" flight might have indeed been very useful for publicity purposes for the three parties involved; Qantas, Boeing and GE.
 
Guillaume787
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:42 am

qf789 wrote:
Guillaume787 wrote:
During a Q&A session after landing in Sydney, Alan Joyce mentioned the plan is for Project Sunrise flights to begin in *2023* when the aircraft is available.

I believe they wanted to start the flights initially in 2022? Would this delay be related to waiting on Boeing’s proposal?

See Alan Joyce’s comments around 4:05 mark:
https://youtu.be/I2iAhgnnVhg


It was mentioned a while back that first flight will be 2023 while first delivery will be in 2022 most likely q4 2022


Thanks for clarifying qf789 and Pcoder!
 
VV
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:54 am

Guillaume787 wrote:
During a Q&A session after landing in Sydney, Alan Joyce mentioned the plan is for Project Sunrise flights to begin in *2023* when the aircraft is available.

I believe they wanted to start the flights initially in 2022? Would this delay be related to waiting on Boeing’s proposal?

See Alan Joyce’s comments around 4:05 mark:
https://youtu.be/I2iAhgnnVhg


That's their plan today, I guess.
Things can change between now and then.
 
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qf789
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:58 am

VV wrote:
Has 787-9 just set a record?

If that is the case then the "research" flight might have indeed been very useful for publicity purposes for the three parties involved; Qantas, Boeing and GE.


Yes it is the longest flight ever operated by any member of the 787 family by an airline, GCM for JFK-SYD is 8656nm, ZNI actually flown 8806nm. PER-LHR is 7828nm GCM though has flown just over 8000nm before on that route. This record wont last long with LHR-SYD being flown next month
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ltbewr
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:01 am

It appears that flights from JFK to SYD will be westbound and flights SYD to JFK will be eastbound. SQ's flights EWR-SIN and SIN-EWR are both eastbound to take advantage of prevailing winds. Going westbound in the winter over the North Atlantic can often mean a lot more fuel burn that could mean a costly fuel stop or limiting the number of passengers or belly freight on winter westbound flights hurting revenues.

I suspect many coach pax or even employers of premium pax will NOT be willing to pay the higher fares for a non-stop JFK-SYD-JFK.

I have been on years ago 12 hour flights AUK-LAX and then followed by a LAX-EWR flight of another 5.5 hours with a short connecting time and that was not good on my body, likely only sightly better than a non-stop might be.
 
VV
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:24 am

qf789 wrote:
VV wrote:
Has 787-9 just set a record?

If that is the case then the "research" flight might have indeed been very useful for publicity purposes for the three parties involved; Qantas, Boeing and GE.


Yes it is the longest flight ever operated by any member of the 787 family by an airline, GCM for JFK-SYD is 8656nm, ZNI actually flown 8806nm. PER-LHR is 7828nm GCM though has flown just over 8000nm before on that route. This record wont last long with LHR-SYD being flown next month


That flight will be performed by the same three parties involved (Qantas, Boeing and GE) again.
So yes, it is a a quite effective publicity stunt that last several months.

That's an interesting way of advertising their service (Qantas) and products (Boeing and GE). It may be much cheaper than actually paying advertising companies to publish ads on TV or in newspapers.
 
Gemuser
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:01 am

scbriml wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Don’t understand why some people have dismissed the flight as a PR stunt. Sure, other airlines also have experience with ULR flights, but their data/analysis/experience isn’t going to be shared with their competitors. If the pax on board include journalists, so what? Why [u]wouldn’t[\u] you take advantage of the flight for a bit of PR?


Because just how much useful data are QF really going to gather with so few pax?

Data on passengers was a freeibe! The real targets were the technical crew, who were instunented during the flight. This data will be used to validate the fetuige models [as said above] for the crew. CASA is not really intrested in the efects on passengers, that does not effect saftey, unless something weird comes out of the expermential flights [which is why you do expirments!]
So please STOP talking about the effect on passengers, that's NOT the purpose of these flights, it is the effect on crews.

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moa999
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:41 am

And the cost of these flights is not substantial, they have to be delivered anyway just taking a slightly longer route. I'm sure well covered by the free press.

As for CO² for a proper calc you'd also need to consider the benefit from lower cycles costs over the life of the aircraft.
You also save a fair amount of fuel by dropping a high power takeoff, and any holding patterns, taxiing etc
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:07 pm

VV wrote:
Has 787-9 just set a record?

If that is the case then the "research" flight might have indeed been very useful for publicity purposes for the three parties involved; Qantas, Boeing and GE.


No that belongs to the 77L. She did HKG-LHR. The long way 'round :) Various delivery and demo flights have also been longer. There's a list on wikipedia. I believe this flight will drop in as number 9.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:21 pm

qf789 wrote:
VV wrote:
Has 787-9 just set a record?

If that is the case then the "research" flight might have indeed been very useful for publicity purposes for the three parties involved; Qantas, Boeing and GE.


Yes it is the longest flight ever operated by any member of the 787 family by an airline, GCM for JFK-SYD is 8656nm, ZNI actually flown 8806nm. PER-LHR is 7828nm GCM though has flown just over 8000nm before on that route. This record wont last long with LHR-SYD being flown next month


The wiki shows an -8 doing a 10691nm BFI-DAC in late 2011. But no source to back it up... gc distance is of course much shorter.

Edit: Found the presser, it was a Boeing flight so I guess you are correct with your precise wording. ;)
 
VV
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:43 pm

SwissCanuck wrote:
VV wrote:
Has 787-9 just set a record?

If that is the case then the "research" flight might have indeed been very useful for publicity purposes for the three parties involved; Qantas, Boeing and GE.


No that belongs to the 77L. She did HKG-LHR. The long way 'round :) Various delivery and demo flights have also been longer. There's a list on wikipedia. I believe this flight will drop in as number 9.


Oh yes, I almost forget the 777-200LR. It has indeed unbeatable range so far.

The only one that will beat it is the 777-8 when it will enter into service.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:31 pm

I think the research is about the impact on humans. Most of the 20 hrs in the night (or day) and also impact on the crew. They may need a third crew set?

My curiosity is about pushing a less capable yet stable platform on longer missions.

Yes, there will be more capable frames, but why have a sub fleet of a niche type, when a commodity frame can achieve the same mission.

If there is a headwind penalty, they have a tech stop at HNL. It appears QF tried HNL-SYD a year back with the same flight number.

BTW, how many timezones this flight crossed?
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:57 pm

qf789 wrote:
VV wrote:
Has 787-9 just set a record?

If that is the case then the "research" flight might have indeed been very useful for publicity purposes for the three parties involved; Qantas, Boeing and GE.


Yes it is the longest flight ever operated by any member of the 787 family by an airline, GCM for JFK-SYD is 8656nm, ZNI actually flown 8806nm. PER-LHR is 7828nm GCM though has flown just over 8000nm before on that route. This record wont last long with LHR-SYD being flown next month


Actually it isn't. Scoot operated 2 delivery flights CHS-SIN non-stop in mid-2018. The planned ground distance was 9211nm, actual flight time for the first flight (9V-OJG) was 19h45m. LHR-SYD will eventually break the record for all these flights anyway.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:59 pm

waly777 wrote:
Pcoder wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Congratulations QF on a successful research flight.


I think "research" is a bit of a misnomer as the flight is of similar length to the existing EWR-SIN. I'm considering this a PR exercise as the main test should have been on economy passengers, since SQ "research" with premium economy and business daily.

Another tell tale sign of a Media stunt is the special pillows and other items and the flight was packed to the brim with media people.


At 19hrs and 15 mins flight, this was more than an hour longer than the average SQ21.

SQ21 has a block time of 18h45 mins but often has a flight time less than 18hrs. You can check the current flight (19oct departure) when it lands 4hrs from now, which should complete the flight in 17hrs 40 mins approximately.

18h 49m total travel time ten days ago.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA ... /KEWR/WSSS
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:33 pm

I agree with other's comments that this is all a big PR stunt. When it comes down to it, Business Class is not the place to conduct your research. They need to instead be studying back in the Premium Economy or Economy cabins. Anyone wanting to do 19-20 hours nonstop is either crazy, or is willing to pay the premium to fly in Business Class. Will their planes flying JFK/LHR-SYD be in an all-Business Class configuration? I doubt it. No Economy passenger in their right mind would subject themselves to flights this long in an Economy Class seat.

Not everything that is possible actually makes good common sense. Just because you CAN drive your own car across the border into Mexico and go off to explore on your own doesn't mean you SHOULD.
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:45 pm

getluv wrote:
QF already have lots and lots of data. This is just extra validating data to provide CASA. CASA reps were also on this flight.

This is a very expensive exercise for simply just PR.


Not particularly expensive since these are delivery flights as well.
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