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moa999
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:53 am

Aircraft had to get from Everett to Australia somehow. Just took a slight detour.

Qantas have flights that are 3 hours shorter. Yes they can extrapolate based on that data, but you still need to validate it.

Maybe you also thing Boeing and Airbus shouldn't bother with test aircraft or test flight programs and just rely on the computer models.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:55 am

77H wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Would I be correct is assuming that Qantas does not have any Russian over-flight rights? They used to operate HKG-MEL so there is a chance they do.

The reason I ask is that I wouldn't be surprised if in certain conditions it was more efficient to fly over Russia and down over Japan. Chinese airspace is chronically inefficient, as can be seen in the above image with the dogs-leg through China.


Why would QF or any airline for that matter need Russian overflight rights to operate HKG-MEL? HKG is quite a ways south of Russia.

77H


Apologies, I meant HKG-LHR.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:25 pm

sevenair wrote:
Ultra long haul flying is nothing new. QF, CASA et all have untold amounts of data at hand from other competent authorities, airlines, crews, passengers, suppliers.

Whilst greater sydney burns, QF are producing tonnes and tonnes of emissions to provide data that already exists.


If ULH is nothing new, what is the issue here?
There is no blanket approval for ULH routes even within the same CAA/Airline combination. The airline has to prove each flight.

CASA is not going to approve SYD-LHR by watching Sam Chui's SIN-EWR vlog.
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:11 pm

Seems like the flight is making great time, it was estimated at about 19:15 and according to FR24 it might make it in 18:00.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:03 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
I ran some numbers through my model/simulation using almost equal legs from SYD-LHR (picked an airport somewhere in china) and the A350-1000 in total used about $5k less fuel for the two 1/2 legs vs the single long leg.

You should not model both cases with the same aircraft. Compare a single A359 ULR leg vs two 781 legs.
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:33 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
I ran some numbers through my model/simulation using almost equal legs from SYD-LHR (picked an airport somewhere in china) and the A350-1000 in total used about $5k less fuel for the two 1/2 legs vs the single long leg. The reality of the 2 "half" legs is that:
Fred


That doesn't sound right. Fuel savings have to be much higher with a stop.
Crew cost gets cheaper with 2MH compared 1ULH, because of heavy rest requirements mandated for ULH routes. You can roster a ULH crew set twice a month.
Catering and waste disposal is another advantage of 2MH.

If you pick an expensive and congested hub as the stop, all advantages are lost.
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:09 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
That doesn't sound right. Fuel savings have to be much higher with a stop.

I think the ‘burn fuel to carry fuel’ mantra gets very over played and in a relatively low fuel price environment it’s not as big of a deal.

Run some numbers, the more the match of technology moves on and the more the efficiencies improve the shallower the slope (fuel cost per unit distance effectively) of the payload range charts. We aren’t designing 8500nm jets. We are designing 5500nm MZFW jets but the cargo you swap for fuel gets you further theses days.

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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:59 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
- Takeoff fuel is 99 Tonnes. That’s ~2T below the max capacity


It's interesting to think about how the folks who planned the record-breaking 747-400 flight in 1989 would have reacted had they been told that a widebody 2/3 the size and weight would make the same flight with 40 passengers and a 99 t fuel load thirty years later. :faint:
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:33 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
I think the ‘burn fuel to carry fuel’ mantra gets very over played and in a relatively low fuel price environment it’s not as big of a deal.

Run some numbers, the more the match of technology moves on and the more the efficiencies improve the shallower the slope (fuel cost per unit distance effectively) of the payload range charts. We aren’t designing 8500nm jets. We are designing 5500nm MZFW jets but the cargo you swap for fuel gets you further theses days.

Fred


Interesting. Is there a thread/blog/article on this topic?
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:15 am

flipdewaf wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
That doesn't sound right. Fuel savings have to be much higher with a stop.

I think the ‘burn fuel to carry fuel’ mantra gets very over played and in a relatively low fuel price environment it’s not as big of a deal.

Run some numbers, the more the match of technology moves on and the more the efficiencies improve the shallower the slope (fuel cost per unit distance effectively) of the payload range charts. We aren’t designing 8500nm jets. We are designing 5500nm MZFW jets but the cargo you swap for fuel gets you further theses days.

Fred



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Yes it is overplayed, especially when comparing to a stopover having 2 somewhat heavy takeoffs instead of 1 really big one.

Another overlooked factor is that when you have salaried crews like Qantas, SYD-SIN-LHR takes a lot more bodies to operate than SYD-LHR.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:19 am

“moderate turbulence” reported on approach by the A332 ahead of 7879. i’m seeing 11kt wind at the field, no gust reported.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:19 am

I am sorry if this has been asked / discussed before, but as part of this project has QF ever considered running East Coast-LHR westbound with a technical fuel stop whilst doing non-stop eastbound? I am thinking if will be economically viable as regular scheduled services and make it less onerous for Airbus and Boeing. Going back to history quite a few airlines (not specifically QF routes) did this if range is an issue. To me it seems East Coast-LHR is much more challenging than JFK-SYD which I'll consider as the second longest sector targetted under this project.
Last edited by mdavies06 on Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:21 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
You can roster a ULH crew set twice a month.


This used to be the case but isn't anymore. SQ ULR crews now only need three nights at home before they can go again: https://www.caas.gov.sg/docs/default-so ... 11-2(rev-0)-fatigue-risk-management-for-ulr-operations.pdf
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:51 am

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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:07 am

benjjk wrote:
...
Another overlooked factor is that when you have salaried crews like Qantas, SYD-SIN-LHR takes a lot more bodies to operate than SYD-LHR.

benjjk wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
You can roster a ULH crew set twice a month.

This used to be the case but isn't anymore. SQ ULR crews now only need three nights at home before they can go again: https://www.caas.gov.sg/docs/default-so ... 11-2(rev-0)-fatigue-risk-management-for-ulr-operations.pdf


I have different take on these, but I think this is not the right thread to discuss ULH economics in detail.
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:06 am

ZNJ landed in SYD with around 6300 kg of fuel, roughly 1 hr and 45 minutes flying time

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... ght-lands/
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:48 am

qf789 wrote:


1st commercial service will be QF127 SYDHKG Saturday 16/11


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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:34 am

Do they have any more 787-9 on order? Which plane will operate the 3rd Project Sunrise flight?
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:01 am

There are 4 outstanding 787-9s for Qantas. I can't tell you which one will do the next PS delivery flight.
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:16 am

Pretty sure ZNK will be the 3rd test. It was only a few aircraft (or about a fortnight) behind ZNJ on the production schedule. Should be visible at Everett any day.

Don't believe ZNL/M/N are due until the 2nd half of 2020
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:16 pm

I assume the 06:00 departure time was driven more by LHR slots than a marketing opportunity, but I did get a smile out of Alan Joyce's declaration that "we saw a double sunrise" given the history behind the name Project Sunrise.

At the other end of the spectrum, I hate to be "that person" but I am not shocked in the slightest that the flight was late into Sydney. People may recall that a month or so ago me and other posters said that it appeared that they messed up the arrival time in Sydney. Either they managed to stuff up the time difference or they underestimated the length of the flight (I still lean towards the former) but 18h45m chocks-off to chocks-on was always wishful thinking.
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:14 pm

Video report from inside the aircraft.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-aus ... -to-sydney
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:14 am

VHZNJ entered revenue service operating today’s QF127 from Sydney to Hong Kong
https://fr24.com/QFA127/22dbed8d


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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:32 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
That doesn't sound right. Fuel savings have to be much higher with a stop.

I think the ‘burn fuel to carry fuel’ mantra gets very over played and in a relatively low fuel price environment it’s not as big of a deal.

Run some numbers, the more the match of technology moves on and the more the efficiencies improve the shallower the slope (fuel cost per unit distance effectively) of the payload range charts. We aren’t designing 8500nm jets. We are designing 5500nm MZFW jets but the cargo you swap for fuel gets you further theses days.

Fred


The more intersting study would be, how much payload (pax and/or cargo) one could carry for the same fuel consumption (ie. $, CO2 and NOx emissions per unit of paylaod) on the non-stop vs one-stop mission (and for good measures, might want to throw in the two-stop mission as well).
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:58 pm

PW100 wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
That doesn't sound right. Fuel savings have to be much higher with a stop.

I think the ‘burn fuel to carry fuel’ mantra gets very over played and in a relatively low fuel price environment it’s not as big of a deal.

Run some numbers, the more the match of technology moves on and the more the efficiencies improve the shallower the slope (fuel cost per unit distance effectively) of the payload range charts. We aren’t designing 8500nm jets. We are designing 5500nm MZFW jets but the cargo you swap for fuel gets you further theses days.

Fred


The more intersting study would be, how much payload (pax and/or cargo) one could carry for the same fuel consumption (ie. $, CO2 and NOx emissions per unit of paylaod) on the non-stop vs one-stop mission (and for good measures, might want to throw in the two-stop mission as well).

I put some basic numbers for payload availability and fuel loads in the A350-1000ulr thread. It doesn’t have the exact numbers you are after but if you can do some basic maths then you should be able to derive the figures you need through the breguet equation.

Fred


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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:47 am

Sam Chui was on the LHR-SYD flight. Posted very detailed report.

QF served only Coconut water and kombucha. No caffeinated soft drinks or alcohol were served. Interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJP93u7n5Ok
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:34 am

moa999 wrote:
Pretty sure ZNK will be the 3rd test. It was only a few aircraft (or about a fortnight) behind ZNJ on the production schedule. Should be visible at Everett any day.

Don't believe ZNL/M/N are due until the 2nd half of 2020


ZNL will be delivered early April , M and N will be delivered by June 2020
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:32 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Sam Chui was on the LHR-SYD flight. Posted very detailed report.

QF served only Coconut water and kombucha. No caffeinated soft drinks or alcohol were served. Interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJP93u7n5Ok


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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:40 am

I want to note on the LHR-SYD test flight, the Captain, especially for the take off and landing, was a woman. Perhaps this was intentional for public relations, but it also may be as to studying the affects of ULH flights on a woman as a lead pilot.
One question I have is do aircraft doing ULH is if there are special maintenance procedures, especially with the engines ?
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:53 am

ltbewr wrote:
I want to note on the LHR-SYD test flight, the Captain, especially for the take off and landing, was a woman. Perhaps this was intentional for public relations, but it also may be as to studying the affects of ULH flights on a woman as a lead pilot.
One question I have is do aircraft doing ULH is if there are special maintenance procedures, especially with the engines ?


You do know that the chief 787 pilot is also a woman and has piloted many long haul flights already, including the delivery of the first 789 plus the inaugural PER-LHR and was also on the first JFK-SYD as well
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:25 am

Is there any chance they would decide anything before year end?

Is the whole thing just a way to make publicity?
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:32 am

VV wrote:
Is there any chance they would decide anything before year end?

Is the whole thing just a way to make publicity?


Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said the following regarding Project Sunrise a couple of days ago

the intention is to make a decision this year and an order could follow into early next year.


https://www.airlineratings.com/news/tes ... e-sunrise/
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:39 am

qf789 wrote:
VV wrote:
Is there any chance they would decide anything before year end?

Is the whole thing just a way to make publicity?


Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said the following regarding Project Sunrise a couple of days ago

the intention is to make a decision this year and an order could follow into early next year.


https://www.airlineratings.com/news/tes ... e-sunrise/


It sounds like he will order some A350 and "postpone" the very long flights to a later date.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:36 am

VV wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VV wrote:
Is there any chance they would decide anything before year end?

Is the whole thing just a way to make publicity?


Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said the following regarding Project Sunrise a couple of days ago

the intention is to make a decision this year and an order could follow into early next year.


https://www.airlineratings.com/news/tes ... e-sunrise/


It sounds like he will order some A350 and "postpone" the very long flights to a later date.


How did you get that from the linked article?!?

If they are going ahead with ULR then all bets are off for an A350/77X order, but if they don't pursue ULR then I can't see an A350 order for the foreseeable future.

If the network remains largely as is then I don't think there will be an A350/77X order for another decade until the A380s are retired. 12 A380s and 12 787s isn't necessarily the most optimal fleet, but adding another <10 of a different types achieves nothing except added cost for limited returns. More 787s, possibly including 787-10 for SIN/HKG/HND, would be a more efficient.
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:13 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
...

How did you get that from the linked article?!?

If they are going ahead with ULR then all bets are off for an A350/77X order, but if they don't pursue ULR then I can't see an A350 order for the foreseeable future.

If the network remains largely as is then I don't think there will be an A350/77X order for another decade until the A380s are retired. 12 A380s and 12 787s isn't necessarily the most optimal fleet, but adding another <10 of a different types achieves nothing except added cost for limited returns. More 787s, possibly including 787-10 for SIN/HKG/HND, would be a more efficient.



I think they regretted to not having ordered 777-300ER back then. So, it would be normal to order some A350-1000 today even if it is not used for some the very long routes mentioned in the Project Sunrise.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:52 am

VV wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
...

How did you get that from the linked article?!?

If they are going ahead with ULR then all bets are off for an A350/77X order, but if they don't pursue ULR then I can't see an A350 order for the foreseeable future.

If the network remains largely as is then I don't think there will be an A350/77X order for another decade until the A380s are retired. 12 A380s and 12 787s isn't necessarily the most optimal fleet, but adding another <10 of a different types achieves nothing except added cost for limited returns. More 787s, possibly including 787-10 for SIN/HKG/HND, would be a more efficient.



I think they regretted to not having ordered 777-300ER back then. So, it would be normal to order some A350-1000 today even if it is not used for some the very long routes mentioned in the Project Sunrise.


They might "regret" it in as much, in hindsight, the 77W would probably have been a better option than the A380, but Qantas have a pretty tiny long hual fleet in the scheme of things and spreading that across three types with no commonality is not cost effective. Leaving aside the A330, on the current trajectory the fleet is migrating from A380+747 to A380+787, with two relatively small fleets of both.

If Sunrise happens then they will of course add another fleet but otherwise I really can't see them purchasing a different type, potential A330 replacement notwithstanding.

If Qantas can tap into the sort of high yield traffic they expect with Sunrise then the new fleet should pay for itself, but on the current network I really don't see how they recoup the added capex and operating costs.
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:06 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
I think they regretted to not having ordered 777-300ER back then.


Back when?. 777-300ERs might have been better than the 747ERs although the first 300ER wasnt delivered until 2004, 2 years after the 744ERs, but then until they got ETOPS330 they were pretty useless for many of QFs routes, as VA found out on its JNB route.

I think for QFs routes between busy airports with curfew the A380 has mostly worked, and certainly helped it's reputation. But they probably got a few too many.

Possibly a 10 A380 / 10 777 order would have been better than 12 A380 / 6 747s, but that's CEO Harry Hindsight

-

If Sunrise doesn't happen now, I'd suspect more 787 deliveries to replace the older 332s and 333s in 5 years or so, and then another CEO can try Sunrise2 when the 350neo is launched and look at 380 replacements.
 
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:58 pm

I haven’t read through all the posts on this topic so perhaps I’ve missed this, is there a plan to operate one of these ‘experimental’ flights from SYD- LHR ?


That is, after all the most challenging sector of all
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:02 pm

Max Q wrote:
I haven’t read through all the posts on this topic so perhaps I’ve missed this, is there a plan to operate one of these ‘experimental’ flights from SYD- LHR ?


That is, after all the most challenging sector of all

I don’t think any of QF current fleet is capable. A380 might be able to with nearly 0 payload but the 787-9 lacks fuel capacity. If the wanted to fit the 787-9 with some aux tanks it might make it, TOW on the previous sunrise test flights have been about 233t if memory serves correctly.

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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:05 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I want to note on the LHR-SYD test flight, the Captain, especially for the take off and landing, was a woman. Perhaps this was intentional for public relations, but it also may be as to studying the affects of ULH flights on a woman as a lead pilot.


Is this a joke?

Wake up, buddy, it’s 2019, not 1959.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:42 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I want to note on the LHR-SYD test flight, the Captain, especially for the take off and landing, was a woman. Perhaps this was intentional for public relations, but it also may be as to studying the affects of ULH flights on a woman as a lead pilot.
One question I have is do aircraft doing ULH is if there are special maintenance procedures, especially with the engines ?


This may be the longest ULH, but not the only ULH flight. AI's all-women crew did the DEL-SFO-DEL round-the-world(Pacific/Atlantic) route. I am sure other airlines had an all-women/women crew on ULH in the past.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:43 pm

Max Q wrote:
I haven’t read through all the posts on this topic so perhaps I’ve missed this, is there a plan to operate one of these ‘experimental’ flights from SYD- LHR ?


That is, after all the most challenging sector of all


No, these "tests" are just delivery flights of new build 787s.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:44 pm

moa999 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
I think they regretted to not having ordered 777-300ER back then.


Back when?. 777-300ERs might have been better than the 747ERs although the first 300ER wasnt delivered until 2004, 2 years after the 744ERs, but then until they got ETOPS330 they were pretty useless for many of QFs routes, as VA found out on its JNB route.

I think for QFs routes between busy airports with curfew the A380 has mostly worked, and certainly helped it's reputation. But they probably got a few too many.

Possibly a 10 A380 / 10 777 order would have been better than 12 A380 / 6 747s, but that's CEO Harry Hindsight

-

If Sunrise doesn't happen now, I'd suspect more 787 deliveries to replace the older 332s and 333s in 5 years or so, and then another CEO can try Sunrise2 when the 350neo is launched and look at 380 replacements.


You've quoted the wrong person.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
cpd
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:26 am

qf789 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I want to note on the LHR-SYD test flight, the Captain, especially for the take off and landing, was a woman. Perhaps this was intentional for public relations, but it also may be as to studying the affects of ULH flights on a woman as a lead pilot.
One question I have is do aircraft doing ULH is if there are special maintenance procedures, especially with the engines ?


You do know that the chief 787 pilot is also a woman and has piloted many long haul flights already, including the delivery of the first 789 plus the inaugural PER-LHR and was also on the first JFK-SYD as well


At the risk of us going off topic and away from the original subject, that would be Georgina Sutton. I have a huge amount of respect for her. Grateful also for some of her experiences she shared which have benefited me a lot.

She’d probably roll her eye at LTBEWR’s comment. She actually wanted to be a Police helicopter pilot, but the old fashioned Police bureaucracy of the day put paid to that, so she went and flew 747-400s and 767s instead. The rest of that story is classic.
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:08 pm

cpd wrote:
qf789 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I want to note on the LHR-SYD test flight, the Captain, especially for the take off and landing, was a woman. Perhaps this was intentional for public relations, but it also may be as to studying the affects of ULH flights on a woman as a lead pilot.
One question I have is do aircraft doing ULH is if there are special maintenance procedures, especially with the engines ?


You do know that the chief 787 pilot is also a woman and has piloted many long haul flights already, including the delivery of the first 789 plus the inaugural PER-LHR and was also on the first JFK-SYD as well


At the risk of us going off topic and away from the original subject, that would be Georgina Sutton. I have a huge amount of respect for her. Grateful also for some of her experiences she shared which have benefited me a lot.

She’d probably roll her eye at LTBEWR’s comment. She actually wanted to be a Police helicopter pilot, but the old fashioned Police bureaucracy of the day put paid to that, so she went and flew 747-400s and 767s instead. The rest of that story is classic.


The Chief Pilot for the 787, and the project lead for the 787 introduction, is actually Lisa Norman.
 
claudiofalcao
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:20 pm

Imagine that Boeing will be choosed, but the 777-8 is not available. Could the 777-200LR be used as interim option in Project Sunrise flights?
Flew, as a passenger, on B727-200, 737-200/300/400/800, 747-300, 757-200, 767-300, 777-200, A310, A319, A320 Ceo/Neo, A321, DC-10, MD-87, MD-11, E-190, E-195.
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:33 am

claudiofalcao wrote:
Imagine that Boeing will be choosed, but the 777-8 is not available. Could the 777-200LR be used as interim option in Project Sunrise flights?


Read articles yesterday indicating (rumour mill!) this was the compelling offer that was made to QF and it was too good to refuse... take the 777-200LRs with 270 capacity until the 777-8 is ready and then BA take them back and convert to freighters for FedEx.

EDIT: including link
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/wil ... -aircraft/
 
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Stitch
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Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:52 am

claudiofalcao wrote:
Imagine that Boeing will be choosed, but the 777-8 is not available. Could the 777-200LR be used as interim option in Project Sunrise flights?

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
Read articles yesterday indicating (rumour mill!) this was the compelling offer that was made to QF and it was too good to refuse... take the 777-200LRs with 270 capacity until the 777-8 is ready and then BA take them back and convert to freighters for FedEx.


I wonder how "compelling" that offer really is. As noted, Qantas looked at the 777-200LR and A340-500 in the mid-2000s and didn't find other attractive enough to go forward. And converting them to freighters implies Boeing (finally) has a P2F program ready to go for the 777 family.
 
claudiofalcao
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:40 pm

Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:13 am

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
claudiofalcao wrote:
Imagine that Boeing will be choosed, but the 777-8 is not available. Could the 777-200LR be used as interim option in Project Sunrise flights?


Read articles yesterday indicating (rumour mill!) this was the compelling offer that was made to QF and it was too good to refuse... take the 777-200LRs with 270 capacity until the 777-8 is ready and then BA take them back and convert to freighters for FedEx.

EDIT: including link
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/wil ... -aircraft/


Wow!
Has the 777-200LR enough ability to reach London, from Sydney, with 270 souls?
Flew, as a passenger, on B727-200, 737-200/300/400/800, 747-300, 757-200, 767-300, 777-200, A310, A319, A320 Ceo/Neo, A321, DC-10, MD-87, MD-11, E-190, E-195.
 
ShamrockBoi330
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:28 am

Re: Qantas plans 3 Project Sunrise research flights in Q4 2019 using 787-9's, final decision on PS by end of 2019

Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:49 am

claudiofalcao wrote:
ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
claudiofalcao wrote:
Imagine that Boeing will be choosed, but the 777-8 is not available. Could the 777-200LR be used as interim option in Project Sunrise flights?


Read articles yesterday indicating (rumour mill!) this was the compelling offer that was made to QF and it was too good to refuse... take the 777-200LRs with 270 capacity until the 777-8 is ready and then BA take them back and convert to freighters for FedEx.

EDIT: including link
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/wil ... -aircraft/


Wow!
Has the 777-200LR enough ability to reach London, from Sydney, with 270 souls?


if it did, you'd wonder what all the fuss is about, and why isn't it already operating tbh!

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