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b747400erf
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Re: Delta Private Jets...aborts takeoff...catches fire....

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:53 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:

Thrust reversers.

So... in less than one month, four Cessna Citation crashes have occurred. That’s like having a 737NG crash every week (except worse, because Cessna Citations do not fly nearly as often as a 737NG).


Lots of owner/operator Citations, lots of low experience pilots; both types in their first jet. Many Citation accidents are high energy approaches with resulting overruns; hypoxia accidents, landing accidents not vastly different from a private pilot trying to “spike” it after a bounce or high flare. Lastly, a Citation is easily the easiest, most forgiving jet anyone can fly—it can just barely kill you.

GF


They are forgiving, but not always easy. Citations have really high power to weight ratios. Down low and on departure it's easy for experienced pilots to get behind the airplane. I flew the 525 series for 3 years and it was always a cold bath adrenaline rush on a cool 5am departure. Transport category jets aren't as much of a handful, but do have more complicated systems.


No, you didn't.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta Private Jets...aborts takeoff...catches fire....

Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:55 pm

11inni wrote:
For BizAv people, DPJ is the longest continuous holder of an ARG/US Platinum rating in Part 135 ops. I don’t imagine they will qualify for the rating going forward based on this incident. Hate to see it happen to anyone, but especially an operator with the highest safety rating attainable.

Would they lose Platinum over one event?

I wish to fly these jets. Let me check the couch cushions...


Lightsaber
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Gulfstream500
Posts: 474
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Re: Delta Private Jets...aborts takeoff...catches fire....

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:28 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Lots of owner/operator Citations, lots of low experience pilots; both types in their first jet. Many Citation accidents are high energy approaches with resulting overruns; hypoxia accidents, landing accidents not vastly different from a private pilot trying to “spike” it after a bounce or high flare. Lastly, a Citation is easily the easiest, most forgiving jet anyone can fly—it can just barely kill you.

GF


They are forgiving, but not always easy. Citations have really high power to weight ratios. Down low and on departure it's easy for experienced pilots to get behind the airplane. I flew the 525 series for 3 years and it was always a cold bath adrenaline rush on a cool 5am departure. Transport category jets aren't as much of a handful, but do have more complicated systems.


I understand that, 2,500 hours in Citations, 4,000 in the CL-350 and Globals, the C-5 was certainly complicated, I have a handle on transport category planes. I’ll still say Citations are the easiest, forgiving bizjets. Straight wing, simple systems, great visibility make it.

GF


The Citation has a significantly higher fatality rate per aircraft per year than aircraft such as the G280, the Eclipse 500, and the Embraer Phenoms. I don’t call that forgiving, or easy. Companies should be making a bigger commitment to aviation safety.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
Canuck600
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Re: Delta Private Jets...aborts takeoff...catches fire....

Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:24 pm

How many Citations are out there compared to the G280, Eclipse 500 & Embraer Phenoms? As somebody posted up thread there are a lot of Citations owned by non professional pilot private owners.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Delta Private Jets...aborts takeoff...catches fire....

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:02 pm

Canuck600 wrote:
How many Citations are out there compared to the G280, Eclipse 500 & Embraer Phenoms? As somebody posted up thread there are a lot of Citations owned by non professional pilot private owners.


Note the inclusion of per aircraft, per year. The Eclipse 500 is actually quite popular as a personal use aircraft, a higher number of Eclipse 500s are used as a personal use aircraft then the Cessna Citation.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Delta Private Jets...aborts takeoff...catches fire....

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:52 pm

You post a link to support that assertion, GLF500. Fact is, airplanes aren’t the cause of accidents, for the most part. I’ve flown a dozen jets, from the F-100 and A-10 to the Global with 6 bizjet types, the Citation remains the easiest and most forgiving of the bunch. It has no bad stall characteristics, it’s take-off and landing speeds are low, systems about as hard to understand as your washing machine and just as reliable and automatic. Can people crash them, yup. Are there several thousand out there being operated by a wide variety of experience levels, yup. Is it uniquely dangerous, nope.

The straight winged Citations are closely related to the Tweet, which safely trained thousands of USAF.


GF
 
Gulfstream500
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Delta Private Jets...aborts takeoff...catches fire....

Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:34 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You post a link to support that assertion, GLF500. Fact is, airplanes aren’t the cause of accidents, for the most part. I’ve flown a dozen jets, from the F-100 and A-10 to the Global with 6 bizjet types, the Citation remains the easiest and most forgiving of the bunch. It has no bad stall characteristics, it’s take-off and landing speeds are low, systems about as hard to understand as your washing machine and just as reliable and automatic. Can people crash them, yup. Are there several thousand out there being operated by a wide variety of experience levels, yup. Is it uniquely dangerous, nope.

The straight winged Citations are closely related to the Tweet, which safely trained thousands of USAF.


GF


https://aviation-safety.net/database/ty ... V/database
https://aviation-safety.net/database/ty ... t/database

https://aviation-safety.net/database/ty ... 0/database

Just to be clear, I am not trying to tell you what your favorite a/c is. Aircraft accidents don’t just happen as a result of one thing. It’s a chain of events, and aircraft manufacturers are often in this chain, such as Boeing in the MAX accidents, and Cessna in the 208 icing accidents (most famously).
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?

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