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spinotter
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:09 pm

EIBPI wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:


Interesting suggestions. I am not sure I see Gatwick or Karlsruhe happening, but many others seem reasonable. I don't think they can get traffic rights for Vienna-Baku.

As for Odesa, they will be operating it from Bratislava presumably because of subsidies offered by Odesa to cities not already served.


But they are all Slavic-speaking at least, right? How much can a Czech person understand an Odessan right off the bat? I was talking in the other thread about the least likely nonstop routing by a schedule airline. Bratislava to Odessa might rank pretty high on that list. What think'est?
 
SMKCosmopolitan
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:49 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
SMKCosmopolitan wrote:
Which potential routes do you see for W6 in Vienna? I think the should consider the following
- Turku (HEL currently with insanely high average fares from VIE)
- Leipzig/Nuremberg (in case their BRE/DTM/CGN endeavor turns out well; routes with rather low frequency and w/o a price battle from VIE à la BER/HAM)
- Turin or Verona (not yet served from VIE)
- Prague (OS monopoly route)
- Podgorica (high-yielding OS monopoly route; in case TIA/PRN will be a success)
- Iasi (given the success of VIE-CLJ and especially VIE-KIV; OS monopoly route)
What are your ideas on those suggestions? Or do you have some other routes in mind?


The routes you mentioned could make sense other than PRG. Vienna-Prague is a 300 km. car, 4-hour Flixbus/train ride. Nobody can compete on P2P with that. There are plenty of routes they could try:

- Gatwick: Level is cancelling the route.
- Frankfurt. OS/LH duopoly.
- Berlin SXF. Only easyJet and Austrian in TXL.
- Karlsruhe: Unserved
- Odesa and Lviv. OS monopoly and W6/FR are growing there.
- Split. OS/OU duopoly.
- Tallinn. Only Air Baltic and Nordica. No ULCC option.
- Lyon. Only Austrian and easyJet. No ULCC option.
- Copenhagen. Big market; only Austrian and Lauda.
- Dubai DWC. Emirates monopoly (and flyDubai to BTS)
- Baku. No flights Vienna-Azerbaijan. Not sure about bilateral stuff.

So routes like Vienna-Tallinn are unlikely to be unsustainable with 3 carriers, but W6 could start a fare war and try to kick others out.


Interesting suggestions! Let me add my two cents on them
- Frankfurt/Berlin SXF: High risk due to high number of flights required to be competitive (at least 2x daily) -> but maybe worth to give on route of this type a try
- London Gatwick/Lviv/Odesa: Already served indirectly by VIE-LTN and BTS-LWO, BTS-ODS, respectively
- Karlsruhe: VIE-STR is a bloodbath and given FKB's proximity to STR I think the yields will be low to very low
- Split: Great suggestion! Leisure route with high fares as of now
- Tallinn: Surely an interesting idea, especially in the light of Nordica ceasing this route
- Lyon: Decent yielding duopoly route but W6 with weak presence in the region Rhone-Alpes -> still worth a try I guess
- Copenhagen: VIE-CPH is currently a bloodbath, might be considered as Malmö replacement though (where W6's performance leaves a lot to be desired)
- Dubai DWC: Definitely worth considering, especially once the A321XLR will arrive in their fleet
- Baku: Would surely be interesting to see how it'd play out -> let's hope the bilateral agreement will change one day
 
EIBPI
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:02 pm

SMKCosmopolitan wrote:
- Frankfurt/Berlin SXF: High risk due to high number of flights required to be competitive (at least 2x daily) -> but maybe worth to give on route of this type a try


It has not stopped Wizz Air from trying Vienna-Cologne competing against 2 daily Austrian and up to 4 daily Eurowings flights.
 
MCTSET
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:18 pm

Non stop march in Vienna for wizz goes on.
 
MCTSET
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:19 pm

Notice they are flyers mg to that new airport Castellón from both Vienna and Luton, must be given those sweet subsides.
 
VCy
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:27 pm

I've enjoyed reading your opinions about the LCA situation and as a local and someone that is here and can see what's happening, I would like to add a few points.

For starters, Cobalt no longer flies to Madrid because it has gone bankrupt and the route wasn't cut before the airline started having its issues. Similarly, with CDG, CY used to fly a daily a330 there, sometimes capturing some BEY traffic as well.

Now, both airports have seen a healthy growth in numbers year on year, with Wizz offering an impressive list of destinations from LCA. Cypriots have been exposed to low fares and basically, there is no turning back now! So, if Wizz launched MAD, BCN etc with the current fares they are running from LCA, there is no doubt that they will be successful. A lot of you have mentioned that Cyprus is meant to be served via ATH and A3. Have you guys seen the prices? At this day and age, families shouldn't have to spend thousands to travel on a 4-5 hour flight. Europe is dominated by low cost airlines and there is no reason why LCA shouldn't benefit from this as well. Locals love to travel multiple times a year with the correct prices and they aren't too keen on one stop flights.

I've flown on VY's former services from LCA to BCN and FCO and I can honestly say that they were packed with people to those cities but with some others that had to transit to Portugal etc.

Today, Cyprus has no flights to France, a market that is very popular from both directions and none to Spain. However, surprisingly, if you talk to anyone that works in tourism in Cyprus they will tell you that they have noticed an increase in visitors from France, Spain and Italy.

To sum it up, the Aegean model via ATH is not sustainable for a tourist destination like Cyprus with foreign and local demand.

P.S fares to ATH from LCA are at an all-time high this year!
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:13 pm

VCy wrote:
I've enjoyed reading your opinions about the LCA situation and as a local and someone that is here and can see what's happening, I would like to add a few points.

For starters, Cobalt no longer flies to Madrid because it has gone bankrupt and the route wasn't cut before the airline started having its issues. Similarly, with CDG, CY used to fly a daily a330 there, sometimes capturing some BEY traffic as well.

Now, both airports have seen a healthy growth in numbers year on year, with Wizz offering an impressive list of destinations from LCA. Cypriots have been exposed to low fares and basically, there is no turning back now! So, if Wizz launched MAD, BCN etc with the current fares they are running from LCA, there is no doubt that they will be successful. A lot of you have mentioned that Cyprus is meant to be served via ATH and A3. Have you guys seen the prices? At this day and age, families shouldn't have to spend thousands to travel on a 4-5 hour flight. Europe is dominated by low cost airlines and there is no reason why LCA shouldn't benefit from this as well. Locals love to travel multiple times a year with the correct prices and they aren't too keen on one stop flights.

I've flown on VY's former services from LCA to BCN and FCO and I can honestly say that they were packed with people to those cities but with some others that had to transit to Portugal etc.

Today, Cyprus has no flights to France, a market that is very popular from both directions and none to Spain. However, surprisingly, if you talk to anyone that works in tourism in Cyprus they will tell you that they have noticed an increase in visitors from France, Spain and Italy.

To sum it up, the Aegean model via ATH is not sustainable for a tourist destination like Cyprus with foreign and local demand.

P.S fares to ATH from LCA are at an all-time high this year!


Of course Aegean's model isn't suited for a tourist destination like Cyprus, that is why every summer there are thousands of charter flights from all around Europe scheduled to both PFO and LCA. A year or two before CY went bust, CDG was downgraded from daily to 6 weekly and then to 4 and eventually to 3. The A332 was removed from CDG the moment frequencies started to be reduced. By the end it was flying to LHR, SVO, BEY, TLV and ATH. In summers it would go to AMS as well but not more than 2 times per week, the rest of the flights were onboard the A320 with a stop in PFO. Even Aegean discontinued LCA-CDG some time ago and their loads weren't as fantastic by the way. So many airlines have tried this market and nothing has managed to stick.

Seems like Belgium and the Netherlands might have more potential so if anything Wizz Air should try to test the waters by introducing EIN-LCA. I don't see CRL working out with FR flying from BRU.

As for Athens, tickets are expensive because ATH is pricey. There is enough competition with Aegean, Blue Air, TUS and Cyprus Airways all offering flights.

W6 base in Cyprus would only work if in addition to European flights they could expand in the Middle East, especially to places such as Amman, Cairo, Beirut, Dubai, Tehran... and why not even northern Iraq? CY used to operate charter flights every ten days.
 
MCTSET
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:20 am

Interesting thing is that W6 will base its 8th aircraft in Vienna in July 2020, by then all the 321ceo would have been delivered and the new aircraft would most likely be an a321neo. With 239 seats and lean PW engines I reckon wizz will be able to really put the pain on Austrian, Lauda and so on.
 
holczakker
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:26 am

Any of the existing fleet of 40+ 321ceos could be relocated to VIE, shouldn't necessarily be a newly delivered neo.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:46 am

MCTSET wrote:
Notice they are flyers mg to that new airport Castellón from both Vienna and Luton, must be given those sweet subsides.


Wizz Air is indeed subsidised in CDT. They also fly to Bucharest (Romanian VFR), Budapest and Katowice (trying to attract Eastern European tourists to their coast).

Note that Lauda announced VIE-SDR a couple of months ago but nothing on sale yet: http://www.austrianaviation.net/detail/ ... ander-auf/ Weird. Santander subsidises both Ryanair and Wizz so maybe it is a question of money. If Lauda fails to launch the route, it could be an opportunity for W6. Lauda is also cancelling BIO-VIE, so Volotea is the only remaining carrier to Vienna in the area.

VCy wrote:
Today, Cyprus has no flights to France, a market that is very popular from both directions and none to Spain. However, surprisingly, if you talk to anyone that works in tourism in Cyprus they will tell you that they have noticed an increase in visitors from France, Spain and Italy.

To sum it up, the Aegean model via ATH is not sustainable for a tourist destination like Cyprus with foreign and local demand.


I think there is a lot of untapped demand from Spain/France to Cyprus. Very few Spaniards make their way to CY because it is tortuous and expensive. Today there are plenty of non-stop options from Spain to Croatia, Greek Islands, Malta, Southern Italy/Sicily/Sardinia, so for someone looking for a different Mediterranean, there is little point to spend more time and money going all the way to Cyprus. IMO Malta shows the way. For some reason it has became quite popular for Spaniards (despite just being another Mediterranean coast; it is not like there is a lack of Mediterranean destinations in Spain) and certainly it is because of its non-stop options. MLA has flights to 8 destinations in Spain: MAD, BCN, AGP, SVQ, VLC, BIO, SCQ and IBZ. Cyprus has its geographical disadvantage, but at least MAD/BCN (and maybe something else in the future) should work.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:09 am

SMKCosmopolitan wrote:
- Frankfurt/Berlin SXF: High risk due to high number of flights required to be competitive (at least 2x daily) -> but maybe worth to give on route of this type a try


Berlin (7h30' train) and Frankfurt (6h30' train) are quite different. easyJet in Berlin keeps affordable fares. For instance it is possible to find TXL-VIE on Austrian for 60 EUR for winter days, but FRA-VIE starts at 160 EUR one-way. With little advance prices start at 200-300 EUR one-way. The plane market is only catered to business travellers.

I am surprised FRA-VIE is not able to support a carrier more catered to VFR/leisure travellers that are not going to spend 400/500 EUR on a round-trip but are willing to spend more to avoid the long train/car journey.
 
SMKCosmopolitan
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:39 am

Is anyone aware of any rumors swirling around regarding new routes or aircraft allocations?

I've heard a fourth plane will be based in Krakow starting next January while BUD-MSQ (almost a given by now), BUD-CLJ and BUD-BEY are rumored as well. Personally, I could see W6 basing another aircraft each at BUD (don't let Ryanair outgrow W6), OTP (decent yields, put further pressure on Blue Air/TAROM) and IAS (strong yields).
 
SMKCosmopolitan
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:25 am

Breaking news: Wizz Air to launch KUT-CGN/BLQ in response to Ryanair's entry into the Georgian market. Furthermore, the frequency of KUT-MXP will be raised to 4x weekly while the starting date of KUT-NCE has been moved forward.
https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-a ... ther-route
Last edited by SMKCosmopolitan on Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:36 am

So Wizzair will have 41 routes next summer out of KUT. Unbelievable.
 
EIBPI
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:22 pm

SMKCosmopolitan wrote:
Breaking news: Wizz Air to launch KUT-CGN/BLQ in response to Ryanair's entry into the Georgian market. Furthermore, the frequency of KUT-MXP will be raised to 4x weekly while the starting date of KUT-NCE has been moved forward.
https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-a ... ther-route


This is getting ridiculous.

I wonder how long it will take Wizz Air to launch flights from Tbilisi.
 
MCTSET
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:14 pm

First Odesa, then Edinburgh, then South-End and now Kutaisi. Who will win the next space race to Mars, Wizzair or Ryanair. :scratchchin:
 
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albertocsc
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:53 pm

EIBPI wrote:
The surprise of the day.

Ryanair is going head to again against Wizz Air with flights from London Southend to Bucharest (5 weekly) and Vilnius (3 weekly). I would not be surprised if the flights are on the same days at similar times. Last week Ryanair more or less copied Wizz Air's Odessa-Budapest schedule.


https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryan ... expansion/



Bad part about that is that KSC, CLJ and CPH will be cut from October.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:07 pm

albertocsc wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
The surprise of the day.

Ryanair is going head to again against Wizz Air with flights from London Southend to Bucharest (5 weekly) and Vilnius (3 weekly). I would not be surprised if the flights are on the same days at similar times. Last week Ryanair more or less copied Wizz Air's Odessa-Budapest schedule.


https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryan ... expansion/



Bad part about that is that KSC, CLJ and CPH will be cut from October.


Who is cutting them and from where?
 
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albertocsc
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:49 pm

Blerg wrote:
albertocsc wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
The surprise of the day.

Ryanair is going head to again against Wizz Air with flights from London Southend to Bucharest (5 weekly) and Vilnius (3 weekly). I would not be surprised if the flights are on the same days at similar times. Last week Ryanair more or less copied Wizz Air's Odessa-Budapest schedule.


https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryan ... expansion/



Bad part about that is that KSC, CLJ and CPH will be cut from October.


Who is cutting them and from where?


Ryanair, from Southend
 
EIBPI
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:55 pm

22/08/2019: Wizz Air announce Southend to Bucharest (1/345/7), Sibiu, Vilnius (/2/4/6/)
22/08/2019 in the afternoon: Ryanair announce Southend to Bucharest (1/345/7), Vilnius (/2/4/6/)

21/08/2019: Ryanair announce Tbilisi to Milan Bergamo (1/3/5/7), Cologne (//3///7)
23/08/2019: Wizz Air announce 2 additional weekly flights Kutaisi to Milan Malpensa (1/345//), a new route Kutaisi to Cologne (//3///7)

21/08/2019: Ryanair announce Kutaisi to Bologna (/2///6/), Marseille (///4//7)
23/08/2019: Wizz Air announce Kutaisi to Bologna (/2///6/), bring forward the launch of Kutaisi to Nice (operated on ///4//7 as previously announced) closer to Ryanair’s launch date

06/08/2019: Wizz Air announce a number of new routes from Odesa including Budapest (/2///6/)
14/08/2019: Ryanair announce Budapest to Odesa (/2///6/)

05/08/2019: Wizz Air announce Edinburgh to Budapest, Bucharest, Gdansk, Warsaw
08/08/2019: Ryanair announce Edinburgh to Bucharest and additional frequencies to Budapest, Gdansk, Warsaw (Modlin)



It will be interesting to assess the above in a year or so. Part of me feels the Wizz Air of today is quite well equipped to defend its position with a good cost base, better brand recognition in the CEE markets, and in some cases significantly more cost effective aircraft if they can fill them. That said, thinking back to some earlier Wizz Air-Ryanair head-to-head battles, the results have been quite mixed:

Ryanair beat Wizz Air Sofia to Athens (Wizz came in after Ryanair).
Ryanair beat Wizz Air Sofia to Cologne: Wizz Air operated the route for about two years before Ryanair flooded the market.
Wizz Air have had a few victories in Romania.
 
marcogr12
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:08 pm

We are also waiting to see the results from Ryanair's attack on Wizzair at VIE this winter with Lauda's new routes..
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
EIBPI
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:25 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
We are also waiting to see the results from Ryanair's attack on Wizzair at VIE this winter with Lauda's new routes..


What new routes are Lauda launching from Vienna this winter?
 
marcogr12
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:07 am

They are launching VIE-AGA,ALC,ATH,BHX,BOD,EDI,EIN,FMO,GOT,LIS,LPL,MRS,NYO,OPO,RIX,SKG,SOF,TLV,TRF,VNO
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
konrad
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:32 am

marcogr12 wrote:
They are launching VIE-AGA,ALC,ATH,BHX,BOD,EDI,EIN,FMO,GOT,LIS,LPL,MRS,NYO,OPO,RIX,SKG,SOF,TLV,TRF,VNO


With the two of them having a fight in Vienna I can see Austrian European flights taking off half empty this winter.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:34 am

marcogr12 wrote:
They are launching VIE-AGA,ALC,ATH,BHX,BOD,EDI,EIN,FMO,GOT,LIS,LPL,MRS,NYO,OPO,RIX,SKG,SOF,TLV,TRF,VNO


Quite a list! So how many additional aircraft will they be basing in Vienna? Wizz Air just seems to be adding more and more each season.

I wonder how much longer before Level pulls out of Vienna or at least until they keep some routes out of there but operated by non-VIE based planes.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:10 am

I also notice that Wizzair is expanding quite a lot in Chișinău. They are starting DSA, FDH, LCA, PRG, TRN and VIE this winter.

KIV has two local carriers (Air Moldova and FlyOne) serving the airport. Is there space for 2 local carriers + W6? Air Moldova is the biggest one and has a participation from Blue Air so it seems more stable. But FlyOne is only operating 3 planes at the moment.

konrad wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
They are launching VIE-AGA,ALC,ATH,BHX,BOD,EDI,EIN,FMO,GOT,LIS,LPL,MRS,NYO,OPO,RIX,SKG,SOF,TLV,TRF,VNO


With the two of them having a fight in Vienna I can see Austrian European flights taking off half empty this winter.


And W6 is launching VIE-ALC,ATH,CGN,ETM,KIV,NAP,OPO,OSL,PRN,TIA.

Unsurprisingly some destinations like ALC, ATH and OPO are launched simultaneously. I wouldn't be surprised if Level pulls out of ALC and OPO.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:31 am

Athens will be interesting to follow as there is also Aegean with daily flights. That said, they have some things going on for them like a convenient schedule and feed on both ends.

1-34-6-
ATH-VIE 09.10-10.30
VIE-ATH 11.20-14.35

-2--5-7
ATH-VIE 16.20-17.35
VIE-ATH 18.20-21.30

I am actually curious to see how they perform on this route under new circumstances as they managed to defeat Ryanair on the domestic Greek market and to survive on some other international routes. I think ATH-SOF was a good example of that where both Wizz Air and Ryanair launched flights at the same time.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:50 am

Blerg wrote:
Athens will be interesting to follow as there is also Aegean with daily flights. That said, they have some things going on for them like a convenient schedule and feed on both ends.

1-34-6-
ATH-VIE 09.10-10.30
VIE-ATH 11.20-14.35

-2--5-7
ATH-VIE 16.20-17.35
VIE-ATH 18.20-21.30

I am actually curious to see how they perform on this route under new circumstances as they managed to defeat Ryanair on the domestic Greek market and to survive on some other international routes. I think ATH-SOF was a good example of that where both Wizz Air and Ryanair launched flights at the same time.


That's different as Aegean is an FSC. They can afford to charge higher fares due to the convenience they offer. Ryanair and Wizzair charge lower fares, but also offer less convenience. It gives customers a choice.

Sure Ryanair and Wizzair won't offer the frequency that Aegean is offering, however for those who don't care when they fly a low frequency is enough. They just take that one cheap flight, whenever it goes. Others who do care about frequency as they need to fly at a certain time will happily pay more to fly Aegean.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:03 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Athens will be interesting to follow as there is also Aegean with daily flights. That said, they have some things going on for them like a convenient schedule and feed on both ends.

1-34-6-
ATH-VIE 09.10-10.30
VIE-ATH 11.20-14.35

-2--5-7
ATH-VIE 16.20-17.35
VIE-ATH 18.20-21.30

I am actually curious to see how they perform on this route under new circumstances as they managed to defeat Ryanair on the domestic Greek market and to survive on some other international routes. I think ATH-SOF was a good example of that where both Wizz Air and Ryanair launched flights at the same time.


That's different as Aegean is an FSC. They can afford to charge higher fares due to the convenience they offer. Ryanair and Wizzair charge lower fares, but also offer less convenience. It gives customers a choice.

Sure Ryanair and Wizzair won't offer the frequency that Aegean is offering, however for those who don't care when they fly a low frequency is enough. They just take that one cheap flight, whenever it goes. Others who do care about frequency as they need to fly at a certain time will happily pay more to fly Aegean.


By that logic OS should be unaffected. Regardless of what type of a carrier they are, an airline is always affected when competition enters the market. I don't see why Aegean should be any different.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:46 pm

Aegean is different from Austrian because they serve an extensive domestic network with Austrian doesn't. Many islands (which happen to be major touristic destinations) have the most effective connections via ATH on A3. Even SKG for some international destinations (for instance Spain) or some islands, via ATH is the most convenient option. That is why A3 can keep ATH-SKG with connections on ATH while Ryanair cannot compete with the new train based solely on point-to-point traffic.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:11 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Aegean is different from Austrian because they serve an extensive domestic network with Austrian doesn't. Many islands (which happen to be major touristic destinations) have the most effective connections via ATH on A3. Even SKG for some international destinations (for instance Spain) or some islands, via ATH is the most convenient option. That is why A3 can keep ATH-SKG with connections on ATH while Ryanair cannot compete with the new train based solely on point-to-point traffic.


As I already explained to you in another forum, it's not so much the train that affected them on ATH-SKG as the Aegean/Ellinair combination did. The latter has even boosted flights on this route despite the train link. Even though the rail link has considerably improved, it still takes around 4 hours to make it while a flight is around 35 minutes. For many that are travelling there and back on the same day (mostly businessmen) the train is not really an option. And btw FR has failed on other domestic routes where there is no modern train link.

And anyway, Austrian Airlines has a growing intercontinental network and a solid coverage of USA and Canada. By that logic they, just like Aegean, it shouldn't be affected since there are far more travellers from Greece to North America than there from Austria to the Greek islands (on scheduled flights, of course, not charters).

Maybe the one who stands to lose the most is Ryanair which operates ATH-BTS. That said, both Aegean and Austrian Airlines will also be affected but it all depends to what extent. OS has remained consistent in TLV and LCA where they faced just as much competition. I am sure they are not going to give up on Athens just yet.
 
Blerg
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:14 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Aegean is different from Austrian because they serve an extensive domestic network with Austrian doesn't. Many islands (which happen to be major touristic destinations) have the most effective connections via ATH on A3. Even SKG for some international destinations (for instance Spain) or some islands, via ATH is the most convenient option. That is why A3 can keep ATH-SKG with connections on ATH while Ryanair cannot compete with the new train based solely on point-to-point traffic.


As I already explained to you in another forum, it's not so much the train that affected them on ATH-SKG as the Aegean/Ellinair combination did. The latter has even boosted flights on this route despite the train link. Even though the rail link has considerably improved, it still takes around 4 hours to make it while a flight is around 35 minutes. For many that are travelling there and back on the same day (mostly businessmen) the train is not really an option. And btw FR has failed on other domestic routes where there is no modern train link.

And anyway, Austrian Airlines has a growing intercontinental network and a solid coverage of USA and Canada. By that logic they, just like Aegean, it shouldn't be affected since there are far more travellers from Greece to North America than there from Austria to the Greek islands (on scheduled flights, of course, not charters).

Maybe the one who stands to lose the most is Ryanair which operates ATH-BTS. That said, both Aegean and Austrian Airlines will also be affected but it all depends to what extent. OS has remained consistent in TLV and LCA where they faced just as much competition. I am sure they are not going to give up on Athens just yet.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5332
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:52 pm

Austrian is a minor competitor in long-haul. They are only particularly strong in some minor, low-yield markets like Sarajevo or Skopje. Anywhere else there is nothing that Lufthansa/Swiss or other carriers (like LOT, etc.) cannot do. So Austrian is strong mostly in markets with a big VFR component looking for the cheapest one-stop price.

Aegean has a quasi-monopoly on connecting flights from abroad to Greek islands that in some cases can command high yields (Santorini, Mykonos, etc.) for a very short flight (the alternative is a long ferry). A3 has also a low cost base so it is a win-win situation.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2191
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:15 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Austrian is a minor competitor in long-haul. They are only particularly strong in some minor, low-yield markets like Sarajevo or Skopje. Anywhere else there is nothing that Lufthansa/Swiss or other carriers (like LOT, etc.) cannot do. So Austrian is strong mostly in markets with a big VFR component looking for the cheapest one-stop price.

Aegean has a quasi-monopoly on connecting flights from abroad to Greek islands that in some cases can command high yields (Santorini, Mykonos, etc.) for a very short flight (the alternative is a long ferry). A3 has also a low cost base so it is a win-win situation.


Due to government taxes on local businesses, Aegean does not have such low costs. There was an interview with their CEO who actually spoke of this, it was in one of the Greek aviation portals. One of the first things the new government did was to announce the reform of the tax code which should be enforced from January 2020.

Furthermore, the schedule I posted above is for the winter season. Tell me, how popular are the Greek islands in winter? The last time I checked they weren't. So you see where your theory is flawed? Though this wouldn't be your first time when it comes to Balkan aviation.

Seems like you missed the fact that Aegean has been building a hub network beyond the Greek islands. They have been adding flights to the Middle East for a while now. So in a way they are after the same market Turkish Airlines and Pegasus are as well. Their presence in Vienna is similar to Austrian's in Athens, the only difference is that they are carrying passengers to the opposite geographical areas.

Both OS and A3 have been carrying considerable O&D passengers. In order to keep them they will have to lower their fares to match those offered by FR and W6. However, unlike these two, their hubs will allow them to replace some lost O&D passengers with transfers. Given the bloodbath that will happen this might not be such a bad thing.
 
MCTSET
Posts: 89
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:33 pm

Will W9 open any other bases in the UK. Luton is well served but space is becoming limited, I can see them making all of Luton operations A321. Other bases are interesting, DSA would be obvious due to their large presence, however I could see them keeping that market as it is.

The 2 interesting ones to me is LPL and BHX.

BHX: with TC on the ropes and Flybe downsizing it is very possible they could pickup some slots and stands at BHX, the area is well connected and has a high migrant population and a strong VFR market particularly eastwards. The only problem I see is it’s proximity to LTN at only 80 miles, it has the potential for cannibalism.

LPL: strong presence already from W6 and if they can obtain cheap slots and rights they could base some aircraft there in the future.
 
Humberside
Posts: 3234
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:05 pm

albertocsc wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
The surprise of the day.

Ryanair is going head to again against Wizz Air with flights from London Southend to Bucharest (5 weekly) and Vilnius (3 weekly). I would not be surprised if the flights are on the same days at similar times. Last week Ryanair more or less copied Wizz Air's Odessa-Budapest schedule.

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryan ... expansion/


Bad part about that is that KSC, CLJ and CPH will be cut from October.

Giving Wizz a monopoly on London to Kosice and Cluj again
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
AirMitko
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:10 am

EIBPI wrote:
Ryanair beat Wizz Air Sofia to Athens (Wizz came in after Ryanair).
Ryanair beat Wizz Air Sofia to Cologne: Wizz Air operated the route for about two years before Ryanair flooded the market.
Wizz Air have had a few victories in Romania.

Ryanair had more wins at Sofia.
SOF-FCO was operated for years by W6 but now is only FR to CIA plus FB and AZ to FCO.
Also FR managed to chase out W6 from SOF- BHX and SOF-BRS.
AB6 313 318/19/20/2N/21 332/3 343/5/6 388 717 733/4/5/6/G/8/9 7M8 74E/4/8 752/3 763 772/3 788/9 AN4 AT4/7 AR1/8 141/2/3 CR2/7/9/K CS1/3 DHT/4 D38 ER3/4 E70/75/90/95 F50/70/100 IL8/9 J32/41 L4T M82/3 TU3/5 SF3 S20 SU9 NDE
 
Blerg
Posts: 2191
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:16 am

AirMitko wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
Ryanair beat Wizz Air Sofia to Athens (Wizz came in after Ryanair).
Ryanair beat Wizz Air Sofia to Cologne: Wizz Air operated the route for about two years before Ryanair flooded the market.
Wizz Air have had a few victories in Romania.

Ryanair had more wins at Sofia.
SOF-FCO was operated for years by W6 but now is only FR to CIA plus FB and AZ to FCO.
Also FR managed to chase out W6 from SOF- BHX and SOF-BRS.


So Wizz Air completely withdrew from Sofia-Rome market? Any changes in recent times, have they modified their SOF operations this summer/winter?
 
Skyeurope
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:55 am

SCQ83 wrote:
I also notice that Wizzair is expanding quite a lot in Chișinău. They are starting DSA, FDH, LCA, PRG, TRN and VIE this winter.

KIV has two local carriers (Air Moldova and FlyOne) serving the airport. Is there space for 2 local carriers + W6? Air Moldova is the biggest one and has a participation from Blue Air so it seems more stable. But FlyOne is only operating 3 planes at the moment.

.


Are you sure about FDH? Only thing I heard Wizz may be moving all flights ex FMM to FDH during the runway constructions works at FMM.

Would definetely be surprised to see FDH-KIV in addition to FMM-KIV. Won't work.
 
pdp
Posts: 171
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:04 am

MCTSET wrote:
Will W9 open any other bases in the UK. Luton is well served but space is becoming limited, I can see them making all of Luton operations A321. Other bases are interesting, DSA would be obvious due to their large presence, however I could see them keeping that market as it is.

The 2 interesting ones to me is LPL and BHX.

BHX: with TC on the ropes and Flybe downsizing it is very possible they could pickup some slots and stands at BHX, the area is well connected and has a high migrant population and a strong VFR market particularly eastwards. The only problem I see is it’s proximity to LTN at only 80 miles, it has the potential for cannibalism.

LPL: strong presence already from W6 and if they can obtain cheap slots and rights they could base some aircraft there in the future.


The thing with Luton is that it has rather poor connectivity from the north beyond the M1. BHX has the M6, M42 and the West Coast Mainline pretty much on it's doorstep.

Coventry, Birmingham and Derby all have high Polish populations, so it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to see them open BHX as a base

Although if Brexit doesn't go completely pear-shaped I see W9 disappearing and being assimilated back into W6, which could change the dynamic.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:10 am

Skyeurope wrote:
Are you sure about FDH? Only thing I heard Wizz may be moving all flights ex FMM to FDH during the runway constructions works at FMM.

Would definetely be surprised to see FDH-KIV in addition to FMM-KIV. Won't work.


Indeed these airports are relatively close, yet they have entirely different catchment areas. Of course there is some overlap, however the catchment area of Memmingen is mostly east of the airport. Sometimes it is even called Munich West, although that might be a bit of a stretch. Still a lot of passengers using Memmingen are actually headed for Munich. I can't see anyone headed for Munich using Friedrichshafen, that's way too far. The catchment area of that airport is the area around the Bodensee with the Black Forest in Germany in the north and the north of Switzerland in the south. It even reaches as far as Zurich. And again, I can't see anyone headed for Zurich use Memmingen but I can see them use Friedrichshafen.
 
MCTSET
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:52 am

pdp wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
Will W9 open any other bases in the UK. Luton is well served but space is becoming limited, I can see them making all of Luton operations A321. Other bases are interesting, DSA would be obvious due to their large presence, however I could see them keeping that market as it is.

The 2 interesting ones to me is LPL and BHX.

BHX: with TC on the ropes and Flybe downsizing it is very possible they could pickup some slots and stands at BHX, the area is well connected and has a high migrant population and a strong VFR market particularly eastwards. The only problem I see is it’s proximity to LTN at only 80 miles, it has the potential for cannibalism.

LPL: strong presence already from W6 and if they can obtain cheap slots and rights they could base some aircraft there in the future.


The thing with Luton is that it has rather poor connectivity from the north beyond the M1. BHX has the M6, M42 and the West Coast Mainline pretty much on it's doorstep.

Coventry, Birmingham and Derby all have high Polish populations, so it wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to see them open BHX as a base

Although if Brexit doesn't go completely pear-shaped I see W9 disappearing and being assimilated back into W6, which could change the dynamic.



So W9 is actually a temporary measure, that’s really interesting.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5332
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:30 pm

pdp wrote:
Although if Brexit doesn't go completely pear-shaped I see W9 disappearing and being assimilated back into W6, which could change the dynamic.


I don't see why. The trend for European low-costs is towards multiple AOCs. Ryanair now with Irish, Polish, Maltese, Austrian and British. Vueling (with Level), Spanish, French and Austrian. easyJet British, Swiss and Austrian.

An immediate advantage is access to more bilateral. Wizzair is launching daily flights from LTN to Moscow and St Petersburg. If W9 disappears, those flights will not be allowed.
 
Skyeurope
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 8:13 pm

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:30 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Skyeurope wrote:
Are you sure about FDH? Only thing I heard Wizz may be moving all flights ex FMM to FDH during the runway constructions works at FMM.

Would definetely be surprised to see FDH-KIV in addition to FMM-KIV. Won't work.


Indeed these airports are relatively close, yet they have entirely different catchment areas. Of course there is some overlap, however the catchment area of Memmingen is mostly east of the airport. Sometimes it is even called Munich West, although that might be a bit of a stretch. Still a lot of passengers using Memmingen are actually headed for Munich. I can't see anyone headed for Munich using Friedrichshafen, that's way too far. The catchment area of that airport is the area around the Bodensee with the Black Forest in Germany in the north and the north of Switzerland in the south. It even reaches as far as Zurich. And again, I can't see anyone headed for Zurich use Memmingen but I can see them use Friedrichshafen.


Coming from Munich the additional time to FDH compared to FMM is just about 40 minutes by car. I don't think that makes much difference for the budget traveller.
Given what kind of licence plates are always parked at the FMM parking lots you'd think half of Germany is using FMM as a budget alternative for travel to Eastern Europe...
I'd say the catchment area of FMM stretches equally both east towards Munich as well as northwest towards Stuttgart and South towards Lake Constance and Vorarlberg. FDH on the other hand mainly caters to the local business travellers and holiday makers. Zurich to Friedrichshafen is just taking as long as Munich to Friedrichshafen ;)

But anyway. Friedrichshafen - Chisinau (as well as all other Wizz flights usually leaving from Memmingen) will only operate between 17 and 30 September when the runway at FMM is closed for construction works.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 233
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Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:46 pm

AirMitko wrote:
EIBPI wrote:
Ryanair beat Wizz Air Sofia to Athens (Wizz came in after Ryanair).
Ryanair beat Wizz Air Sofia to Cologne: Wizz Air operated the route for about two years before Ryanair flooded the market.
Wizz Air have had a few victories in Romania.

Ryanair had more wins at Sofia.
SOF-FCO was operated for years by W6 but now is only FR to CIA plus FB and AZ to FCO.
Also FR managed to chase out W6 from SOF- BHX and SOF-BRS.

Ryanair beat also Wizzair on the OTP-ATH route,KTW-ATH...They both kept ATH-IEV/KBP,ATH-BUD and ATH-LTN year-round, though FR is reducing for Winter to 3w but keeps 2daily to STN..They also both kept the seasonal ATH-VNO..Ryanair has the upper hand against W6 also on all polish routes to ATH flying WMI,KRK,KTW,GDN,POZ,WRO
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
Blerg
Posts: 2191
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:46 pm

Wizz Air was also beaten on OTP-LCA by Blue Air and Tarom. They completely suspended the route.
 
MCTSET
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:31 pm

Blerg wrote:
Wizz Air was also beaten on OTP-LCA by Blue Air and Tarom. They completely suspended the route.



How did and are they fairing in Budapest, I know know that is their home so they have to defend that to the end, actually saying that EasyJet didn’t do much to combat wizz at Luton, maybe because they fly different markets.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2191
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:16 pm

MCTSET wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Wizz Air was also beaten on OTP-LCA by Blue Air and Tarom. They completely suspended the route.



How did and are they fairing in Budapest, I know know that is their home so they have to defend that to the end, actually saying that EasyJet didn’t do much to combat wizz at Luton, maybe because they fly different markets.


They do quite ok in Budapest actually, I think they are the dominant carrier there. When MA went bust they were competing with FR which was quite aggressive but eventually they lost the battle. Seems like the fight is heating up once again, FR seems to be going for the kill. Wizz Air did announce a new round of frequencies out of Budapest.

I think Wizz Air might be experiencing issues in BUD in the future with LO expanding there, they seem to have the support of the Hungarian government. Wizz Air needs to lobby hard for the night curfew and the LCC move to Kecskemet not to happen.
 
EIBPI
Topic Author
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:15 pm

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:02 pm

Blerg wrote:
MCTSET wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Wizz Air was also beaten on OTP-LCA by Blue Air and Tarom. They completely suspended the route.


I think Wizz Air might be experiencing issues in BUD in the future with LO expanding there, they seem to have the support of the Hungarian government. Wizz Air needs to lobby hard for the night curfew and the LCC move to Kecskemet not to happen.


What is the potential move to Kecskemet? I must have missed that story. From looking at Google maps, there is not much there.

What is Wizz Air's market share in Budapest? With 14 based aircraft, it must be 30-40%.
 
Blerg
Posts: 2191
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Wizz Air News & Expansion

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:13 am

EIBPI wrote:
Blerg wrote:
MCTSET wrote:

I think Wizz Air might be experiencing issues in BUD in the future with LO expanding there, they seem to have the support of the Hungarian government. Wizz Air needs to lobby hard for the night curfew and the LCC move to Kecskemet not to happen.


What is the potential move to Kecskemet? I must have missed that story. From looking at Google maps, there is not much there.

What is Wizz Air's market share in Budapest? With 14 based aircraft, it must be 30-40%.


Kecskemet is some 90 km from Budapest and the airport there is used by the military. There was a proposal, I think by the mayor of Budapest, to move LCC traffic there so as to relieve BUD and to reduce noise. That's when they also proposed a curfew which would seriously affect Wizz Air. Conspiracy theory or not, I think it might have something to do with LO expanding in BUD.

Budapest airport struggled financially and it took them a decade and 15 million passengers to record a solid profit. I am sure LO is a far more desired customer as they probably pay more in charges being a legacy and all that. Not to mention that from next spring they are starting to introduce regional flights and to build a hub there.

All in all, Wizz Air will have both Ryanair and LOT to compete with. I don't think they'll give up on Budapest, it's their stronghold and I think their biggest and most important hub. BUD airport on the other hand might struggle this year again since their cargo numbers are collapsing and those are a solid source of revenue for airports.

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