Scorpio
Topic Author
Posts: 5025
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:23 am

Does anyone know what's going on with Airbus narrowbody deliveries? In the first three weeks of August, only ten aircraft have been delivered according to https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2019-08-08T18:43:00%2B02:00&max-results=20&start=38&by-date=false , and the last deliveries from Hamburg and Toulouse were on the 9th and 7th respectively. That's two weeks ago. I realise August is traditionally a slower month, but not this slow. For comparison's sake, these were the number of delivered planes in the first three weeks of August in previous years:
2018: 21
2017: 26
2016: 26

The plants ARE active BTW, because test flights are happening, as are first flights. But nothing's getting delivered.
 
T4thH
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:25 am

Scorpio wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with Airbus narrowbody deliveries? In the first three weeks of August, only ten aircraft have been delivered according to https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2019-08-08T18:43:00%2B02:00&max-results=20&start=38&by-date=false , and the last deliveries from Hamburg and Toulouse were on the 9th and 7th respectively. That's two weeks ago. I realise August is traditionally a slower month, but not this slow. For comparison's sake, these were the number of delivered planes in the first three weeks of August in previous years:
2018: 21
2017: 26
2016: 26

The plants ARE active BTW, because test flights are happening, as are first flights. But nothing's getting delivered.


This is Europe. Summer leave time.
 
Scorpio
Topic Author
Posts: 5025
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:30 am

T4thH wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with Airbus narrowbody deliveries? In the first three weeks of August, only ten aircraft have been delivered according to https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2019-08-08T18:43:00%2B02:00&max-results=20&start=38&by-date=false , and the last deliveries from Hamburg and Toulouse were on the 9th and 7th respectively. That's two weeks ago. I realise August is traditionally a slower month, but not this slow. For comparison's sake, these were the number of delivered planes in the first three weeks of August in previous years:
2018: 21
2017: 26
2016: 26

The plants ARE active BTW, because test flights are happening, as are first flights. But nothing's getting delivered.


This is Europe. Summer leave time.

Nope. Like I just said, the plants are open, and other years far more planes are delivered in the same period.
 
T4thH
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:25 am

Scorpio wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with Airbus narrowbody deliveries? In the first three weeks of August, only ten aircraft have been delivered according to https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2019-08-08T18:43:00%2B02:00&max-results=20&start=38&by-date=false , and the last deliveries from Hamburg and Toulouse were on the 9th and 7th respectively. That's two weeks ago. I realise August is traditionally a slower month, but not this slow. For comparison's sake, these were the number of delivered planes in the first three weeks of August in previous years:
2018: 21
2017: 26
2016: 26

The plants ARE active BTW, because test flights are happening, as are first flights. But nothing's getting delivered.


This is Europe. Summer leave time.

Nope. Like I just said, the plants are open, and other years far more planes are delivered in the same period.


Please note, It is "summer leave time" and and not "plant leave"; production in Hamburg is reduced as many/most workers are now with their families in summer leave. The same will be in Toulouse, many/most of them can now be found with their families at a beach. .
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5632
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:47 am

T4thH wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with Airbus narrowbody deliveries? In the first three weeks of August, only ten aircraft have been delivered according to https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2019-08-08T18:43:00%2B02:00&max-results=20&start=38&by-date=false , and the last deliveries from Hamburg and Toulouse were on the 9th and 7th respectively. That's two weeks ago. I realise August is traditionally a slower month, but not this slow. For comparison's sake, these were the number of delivered planes in the first three weeks of August in previous years:
2018: 21
2017: 26
2016: 26

The plants ARE active BTW, because test flights are happening, as are first flights. But nothing's getting delivered.


This is Europe. Summer leave time.


So, they didn't have summer leave in 2016, 2017, or 2018? Your answer doesn't - in any way - any the year-over-year decline outlined by the OP.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1173
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Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:15 pm

T4thH wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
T4thH wrote:

This is Europe. Summer leave time.

Nope. Like I just said, the plants are open, and other years far more planes are delivered in the same period.


Please note, It is "summer leave time" and and not "plant leave"; production in Hamburg is reduced as many/most workers are now with their families in summer leave. The same will be in Toulouse, many/most of them can now be found with their families at a beach. .

This is happening less and less, as people are trying to avoid Augustians (they are the worse vacationers) and as factories are reducing the traditional summer downtime.
That was true a few decades ago; much less now.
 
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hOMSaR
Posts: 2187
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Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:19 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
Nope. Like I just said, the plants are open, and other years far more planes are delivered in the same period.


Please note, It is "summer leave time" and and not "plant leave"; production in Hamburg is reduced as many/most workers are now with their families in summer leave. The same will be in Toulouse, many/most of them can now be found with their families at a beach. .

This is happening less and less, as people are trying to avoid Augustians (they are the worse vacationers) and as factories are reducing the traditional summer downtime.
That was true a few decades ago; much less now.


I guess the relevant question is, “is Airbus reducing summer downtime” not “are factories (generally) reducing summer downtime?”

As to why there are fewer A320 deliveries this year than previous years, could it be a factor of Airbus having more of an undelivered backlog caused by engine shortages last year, pushing deliveries into August that should have been done in July (or earlier), but if the engine manufacturers are getting more caught up (and I don’t know if this is true), those deliveries actually occurred earlier, leaving fewer frames leftover to be delivered in early August?
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
catiii
Posts: 3125
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:46 pm

Scorpio wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with Airbus narrowbody deliveries?


Relative to the 321neos, they weren’t prepared for the complexity of ramping up the ACF line. ACF allows for more customization in the LOPA, and it also removed the 2L and 2R doors and increased the size of the overwing exits. They’re signficantly delayed in getting these airplanes to customers. IAG cited their inability to deliver an airplane on time as why they went with the MAX (which should tell you how little confidence IAG has in Airbus).

JetBlue cited these significant delays, and their disappointment in Airbus, on their earnings call in July.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:10 pm

if not summer leave, what is causing the delays?

There have been significant delivery days for a while on the A320neo and it won’t be ending soon. The list of airlines rescheduling routes due to A321neo delivery delays is long with deliveries being pushed in 2020.

Salam Air

With a remaining four A320neo aircraft on order, SalamAir’s CEO originally expected the second jet (on lease from Kuwait’s ALAFCO) to be delivered in February 2019. Ahmed told me “Airbus has said this week that our second aircraft due in February will now be delayed by two months, and our third aircraft due in March will be delayed by three months.” While Ahmed acknowledged SalamAir isn’t alone with A320neo delays, he said: “Our expectations now is that all of our remaining A320neos on order will be delayed, similar to other customer airlines.”

https://aviationanalyst.co.uk/2019/01/1 ... eo-delays/

JetBlue

The New York-based airline now expects to take six A321neos "minimum" in 2019, down from 13 deliveries previously, says chief financial officer Steve Priest in an earnings call today. "We've been officially notified by Airbus of widely-known delays in neo deliveries," says Priest.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... el-455266/

American

American Airlines faces another fleet-related setback to its growth plans this year, as delays at Airbus push delivery of five A321neos into 2020.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ys-457732/

Air Lease

Air Lease will continue to experience delays to its deliveries in 2019, management says.

“While we believe Airbus has its industrial recovery plan in place, and that Pratt & Whitney are getting their arms around these issues, we fall just short of saying these problems are fully behind us,” chief executive John Plueger told investors during a fourth-quarter earnings call on 21 February.

The Los Angeles-based lessor says it continues to receive delay notices from Airbus into 2020. While Air Lease predicts the delays will be in lower volumes this year and less prolonged than in 2018, the company says “they’re still happening”.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 20-456047/

Aer Lingus

Aer Lingus has announced that aircraft delivery delays will mean its Dublin to Montreal service, due to start on August 8, will not launch until summer 2020.
Meanwhile four transatlantic routes will see reduced frequency during July – Dublin to Philadelphia, Dublin to Minneapolis-St Paul, Dublin to Connecticut and Shannon to JFK.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... shed-back/
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:48 pm

Summer time leave + A321NX production issues.
 
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Revelation
Posts: 21228
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Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:53 pm

Maybe 'Motley Fool' wasn't as off the mark as some suggest?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:01 am

ikolkyo wrote:
Summer time leave + A321NX production issues.


What are the A321nx production issues?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 10800
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:44 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with Airbus narrowbody deliveries? In the first three weeks of August, only ten aircraft have been delivered according to https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2019-08-08T18:43:00%2B02:00&max-results=20&start=38&by-date=false , and the last deliveries from Hamburg and Toulouse were on the 9th and 7th respectively. That's two weeks ago. I realise August is traditionally a slower month, but not this slow. For comparison's sake, these were the number of delivered planes in the first three weeks of August in previous years:
2018: 21
2017: 26
2016: 26

The plants ARE active BTW, because test flights are happening, as are first flights. But nothing's getting delivered.


This is Europe. Summer leave time.


So, they didn't have summer leave in 2016, 2017, or 2018? Your answer doesn't - in any way - any the year-over-year decline outlined by the OP.


School vacation isn't at the same time every year. Whoever doesn't have children in school avoids vacationing at that time as it is more expensive. This year summer vacation extends only one week into August for Hamburg, in 2016 and 17 covered all of August, 2018 just half of it. Wales also doesn't have the same dates for summer holiday either..

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Babyshark
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:25 am

Carpet delays.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:02 am

Babyshark wrote:
Carpet delays.


What does that mean? Are there interior furnishing delays
 
holczakker
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:30 am

Scorpio wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with Airbus narrowbody deliveries? In the first three weeks of August, only ten aircraft have been delivered according to https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2019-08-08T18:43:00%2B02:00&max-results=20&start=38&by-date=false , and the last deliveries from Hamburg and Toulouse were on the 9th and 7th respectively

You look at some historic version of the site you quoted. Pls check the full version at https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/ to see that a lot of deliveries are happening, three aircraft are listed as delivered yesterday (23AUG) in XFW only. That being said, still a lot of delays are happening for missing engines, parts, damages during production etc.
 
Scorpio
Topic Author
Posts: 5025
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:37 am

holczakker wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with Airbus narrowbody deliveries? In the first three weeks of August, only ten aircraft have been delivered according to https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2019-08-08T18:43:00%2B02:00&max-results=20&start=38&by-date=false , and the last deliveries from Hamburg and Toulouse were on the 9th and 7th respectively

You look at some historic version of the site you quoted. Pls check the full version at https://xfw-spotter.blogspot.com/ to see that a lot of deliveries are happening, three aircraft are listed as delivered yesterday (23AUG) in XFW only. That being said, still a lot of delays are happening for missing engines, parts, damages during production etc.

My numbers were correct at the time I posted them.
 
holczakker
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:59 am

They were not. Eg. D-AIWH was delivered to Lufthansa from XFW on 12AUG.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1173
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Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:46 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
Carpet delays.


What does that mean? Are there interior furnishing delays

AAB supposedly refused the delivery of an A380 a few years ago for carper defects; that's the reference.
 
Scorpio
Topic Author
Posts: 5025
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Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:06 pm

holczakker wrote:
They were not. Eg. D-AIWH was delivered to Lufthansa from XFW on 12AUG.

Making it one of the ten I mentioned.
 
Eiszeit
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:23 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
T4thH wrote:

This is Europe. Summer leave time.


So, they didn't have summer leave in 2016, 2017, or 2018? Your answer doesn't - in any way - any the year-over-year decline outlined by the OP.


School vacation isn't at the same time every year. Whoever doesn't have children in school avoids vacationing at that time as it is more expensive. This year summer vacation extends only one week into August for Hamburg, in 2016 and 17 covered all of August, 2018 just half of it. Wales also doesn't have the same dates for summer holiday either..

Best regards
Thomas


This should be the reason, less aircraft build during june but it should pick up fast as the vacation time is over.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8425
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:14 pm

Deliveries and production are not directly coupled. I assume that the different FAL do not slow down in summer. There are quite a few frames standing around waiting for something.

Airbus has problems with the complexity of the A321neo ACF frames, but AFAIK that is mainly in outfitting. There are also many different HoV frames.
Engines are still in short supply, it seems especially the high thrust versions and there especially the LEAP.

Apart from the above, Airbus is still in record numbers in regards to A320 family frame deliveries. End of July 2019 346 frames compared to end of July 2018 302 frames delivered.
By end of August 2018 it was 349 frames. Airbus is now at 358 frames with a week left in August.

The problems, including stored frames, seem to be confined to XFW (Hamburg). By design, keeping supply problems away from the other locations, or because of troubles being only in XFW, I do not know.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:44 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
Carpet delays.


What does that mean? Are there interior furnishing delays

AAB supposedly refused the delivery of an A380 a few years ago for carper defects; that's the reference.

QR/AAB is notorious for finding issues to delay receipt of an aircraft.

Although I somehow doubt two dozen deliveries were due to QR. It seems to be a systemic A320 issue as JetBlue was quoted earlier.

It happens. Bad and stressful, but it isn horrible.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
SteelChair
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Re: A320 family delivery problems?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:03 pm

Shame the aviation journalists aren't writing about the reason for the delays.

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