fpetrutiu
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Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:06 am

According to CNN, an Hawaiian A321 made an emergency landing and subsequent evacuation via slides due to smoke in cabin/cargo hold. 6 people taken to the hospital.

Link: https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/22/us/haw ... cnn.com%2F

Does it seem that the A321NEO has some sorts of a problem, maybe engine issues? Sorry, been away for a little while and not to date, but I have heard quite a few smoke in cabin issues with the A321 recently.
Florin
Orlando, FL
 
LY777
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:30 am

You know what, guys? I am going to avoid brand new planes now lol.
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
Noise
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:52 am

LY777 wrote:
You know what, guys? I am going to avoid brand new planes now lol.


So...I was thinking the same thing lol. How long should we wait until a plane is no longer brand new? 5 years?
 
RickNRoll
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:02 am

Let's wait and see the details. If it is a cargo hold fire then there is not much to do with the NEO about that.
Edit: No fire found.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:11 am

RickNRoll wrote:
Let's wait and see the details. If it is a cargo hold fire then there is not much to do with the NEO about that.
Edit: No fire found.

They still discharged the halon bottles in the cargo hold; so, it sounds like they really thought it was a legit fire, and not a classic case of "A320Family cabin smoke".
 
MrBretz
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:21 am

I always wondered what would happen if this occurred at about halfway between Hawaii and the mainland. This happened 20 minutes outside of HNL.
 
RickNRoll
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:30 am

WayexTDI wrote:
RickNRoll wrote:
Let's wait and see the details. If it is a cargo hold fire then there is not much to do with the NEO about that.
Edit: No fire found.

They still discharged the halon bottles in the cargo hold; so, it sounds like they really thought it was a legit fire, and not a classic case of "A320Family cabin smoke".
You would discharge them anyway, just in case.
 
XRadar98
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:38 am

MrBretz wrote:
I always wondered what would happen if this occurred at about halfway between Hawaii and the mainland. This happened 20 minutes outside of HNL.



In that case, you keep going or return. Sort of self explanatory.
 
AA737-823
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:49 am

MrBretz wrote:
I always wondered what would happen if this occurred at about halfway between Hawaii and the mainland. This happened 20 minutes outside of HNL.


To expand on the (totally unhelpful and obvious) answer someone else gave you, there are actually two fire bottles for cargo holds on ETOPS/overwater aircraft, including such boring/lowly examples as the 737 and A320.
The first bottle is a quick-discharge burst of halon, to extinguish the hypothetical fire.
The second bottle is a "slow blow" bottle, which continues to disperse halon for a much longer time, to keep the oxygen level low enough that combustion isn't sustainable.

Hope that helps to answer your question.
 
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zeke
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:57 am

RickNRoll wrote:
Let's wait and see the details. If it is a cargo hold fire then there is not much to do with the NEO about that.
Edit: No fire found.


The way cargo fire detection units work means that normal cargo, fish, turtles, and some fruit can generate a false positive detection.

I would discharge the bottles and get on the ground ASAP, but would always take a decision to evacuate separately based upon the information at hand at the time.

Unless I had a secondary method to confirm there is immediate danger, I would opt to get the passengers off via a gate or stairs with RFF in attendance and cargo doors closed.

RFF have probs that can penetrate the cargo hold and induce additional suppression. The hold is an air tight volume by design.

https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/protecti ... rgo-fires/
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Armadillo1
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:26 am

 
hiflyeras
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:10 pm

Bad seal in engine...another black eye for the A321Neo PW engine? They finally seemed to be able to keep them flying but now this. Praise for the crew...evacuated in 30 seconds.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/2 ... cargo-pit/
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2019/08/ ... 98be02bfc9
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:11 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:


Future headline...grounding of A321neo?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:13 pm

Pratt is working to replace old seals. It is months away from a complete replacement. A bummer. I just hope this is the old seals...

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Sooner787
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Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:28 pm

    lightsaber wrote:
    Pratt is working to replace old seals. It is months away from a complete replacement. A bummer. I just hope this is the old seals...

    Lightsaber


    Okay, you're VP of Risk Management for a major airline.
    You have a new fleet of A32x NEOS with P&W GTF engines
    that haven't had these suspect seals replaced yet.

    Do you keep flying those frames or park 'em like
    several airlines did with their RR powered 787's
    until repairs are made?
     
    hiflyeras
    Posts: 2031
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    Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

    Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:30 pm

    Sooner787 wrote:
      lightsaber wrote:
      Pratt is working to replace old seals. It is months away from a complete replacement. A bummer. I just hope this is the old seals...

      Lightsaber


      Okay, you're VP of Risk Management for a major airline.
      You have a new fleet of A32x NEOS with P&W GTF engines
      that haven't had these suspect seals replaced yet.

      Do you keep flying those frames or park 'em like
      several airlines did with their RR powered 787's
      until repairs are made?


      I wouldn't fly one...particularly on an ETOPS flight...until I knew the issue was resolved on every engine affected :(
       
      Aptivaboy
      Posts: 783
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      Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

      Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:34 pm

      I always wondered what would happen if this occurred at about halfway between Hawaii and the mainland. This happened 20 minutes outside of HNL.


      It actually has, at least in terms of medical and other mechanical issues. The short answer is that planes divert to the nearest airport. The thing is, that far overwater it often means making some interesting decisions due to the prevailing wind and weather patterns at the time. Last year, I think it was, a westbound bird was slightly past the midpoint and still turned around and went back to the mainland because it was actually slightly faster than continuing on to the Islands. Sorry, I don't recall the flight number but it was on the Hawaiian travel blogs that I frequent. Some of the passengers weren't happy but the winds made it necessary to make that particular choice. I'm pretty sure this happened to a Hawaiian 767 a few years ago, too.

      Sorry I don't have any more information. Maybe a few pilots who fly overwater can chime in with more wisdom on how these decisions are made?
       
      Armadillo1
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      Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

      Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:37 pm

      Aptivaboy wrote:
      Last year, I think it was, a westbound bird was slightly past the midpoint and still turned around and went back to the mainland because it was actually slightly faster than continuing on to the Islands. Sorry, I don't recall the flight number but it was on the Hawaiian travel blogs that I frequent. Some of the passengers weren't happy but the winds made it necessary to make that particular choice. I'm pretty sure this happened to a Hawaiian 767 a few years ago, too.


      or repairs on mainland will be cheaper.
       
      MIflyer12
      Posts: 5575
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      Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

      Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:38 pm

      Sooner787 wrote:
        lightsaber wrote:
        Pratt is working to replace old seals. It is months away from a complete replacement. A bummer. I just hope this is the old seals...

        Lightsaber


        Okay, you're VP of Risk Management for a major airline.
        You have a new fleet of A32x NEOS with P&W GTF engines
        that haven't had these suspect seals replaced yet.

        Do you keep flying those frames or park 'em like
        several airlines did with their RR powered 787's
        until repairs are made?


        That's a good question. How many 32x Neos with P&W GTF have been delivered so far?
         
        MrBretz
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        Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

        Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

        Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:00 pm

        AA737-823 wrote:
        MrBretz wrote:
        I always wondered what would happen if this occurred at about halfway between Hawaii and the mainland. This happened 20 minutes outside of HNL.


        To expand on the (totally unhelpful and obvious) answer someone else gave you, there are actually two fire bottles for cargo holds on ETOPS/overwater aircraft, including such boring/lowly examples as the 737 and A320.
        The first bottle is a quick-discharge burst of halon, to extinguish the hypothetical fire.
        The second bottle is a "slow blow" bottle, which continues to disperse halon for a much longer time, to keep the oxygen level low enough that combustion isn't sustainable.

        Hope that helps to answer your question.


        That was very helpful. Thank you.
         
        RightRudder
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        Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

        Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:12 pm

        Armadillo1 wrote:
        RightRudder wrote:
        These narrow body ETOPs should not be flying over water. Just need one incident of accidental engine shutdown or even worse, smoke in cabin.

        what difference with WB in this particular case?



        Not sure really. But the fulcrum of the aircraft and fuel distribution brings note. I just never trust a narrow body over the pond of the pacific.
        "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".
         
        dcajet
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        Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

        Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:22 pm

        RightRudder wrote:
        These narrow body ETOPs should not be flying over water. Just need one incident of accidental engine shutdown or even worse, smoke in cabin.


        Huh? This could have happened to an A330 or a 777 just as well... Last time I checked, those have 2 engines too.
        "Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
         
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        lightsaber
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        Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

        Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:23 pm

        MIflyer12 wrote:
        Sooner787 wrote:
          lightsaber wrote:
          Pratt is working to replace old seals. It is months away from a complete replacement. A bummer. I just hope this is the old seals...

          Lightsaber


          Okay, you're VP of Risk Management for a major airline.
          You have a new fleet of A32x NEOS with P&W GTF engines
          that haven't had these suspect seals replaced yet.

          Do you keep flying those frames or park 'em like
          several airlines did with their RR powered 787's
          until repairs are made?


          That's a good question. How many 32x Neos with P&W GTF have been delivered so far?

          One would have several VPs. For ETOPs, Pratt must prove reliability. If it drops too far, ETOPs is reduced or lost.

          Everyone does know LEAP-1As have issues. DL just had a CFM-56 fail with a 3rd country emergency landing.

          The PW1100Gs are far more reliable today. The old seals have issues and are being replaced for a reason.

          So one ensures a new seal engine if flying with an old seal. This isn't the GE-90 at entry into service that filled cabins with fuel vapor.

          There are processes.

          If I were the VP of risk management, I would know risk is a potentially high cost, so I would be demanding funds for inspection. I would also be demanding accelerated seals. I wouldn't ground the planes off the data I have, but I would threaten Pratt with a public grounding that I would due them for all expenses unless they come up with faster replacements.

          But my buddy VP in ops would be telling me how much fuel these engines save (even over LEAP) and the route planning VP and I would be arguing over how wise it is to open up longer range routes. That VP would council me to tone it down as our bonuses would be coming out of the profits these Pratt powered aircraft would make. He would note right now CFM isn't doing any better in IFSD, so there is no obvious choice.

          Pratt has the highest non-military engine differential bearing speeds on the GTFs. I believe CFM wasn't ready and went co-rotating as today's modern high Mach # compressors provide more benefit than counter rotation (if bearings/seals limit differential rpm, it becomes a choice if picking one or the other. I simply the constraints).

          Once Pratt engineers figure out the solution, they will have an advantage.

          I would fly ETOPs on a Pratt NEO, RR 787, or even SU100. There are airlines I won't fly. I also won't fly the ARJ-21 or C-919 as they have design compromises I strongly disagree with. I love the concepts in the MC-21 and I look forward to flying on it. I am biased as I designed subsystems for that aircraft. ;)

          Bummer on this issue. But for every Pratt having an issue in mid-2019.

          Oh, HA has good maintenance, this is on Pratt.

          Lightsaber
          IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
           
          airbazar
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:25 pm

          RightRudder wrote:
          Armadillo1 wrote:
          RightRudder wrote:
          These narrow body ETOPs should not be flying over water. Just need one incident of accidental engine shutdown or even worse, smoke in cabin.

          what difference with WB in this particular case?



          Not sure really. But the fulcrum of the aircraft and fuel distribution brings note. I just never trust a narrow body over the pond of the pacific.


          I guess you answered in your first 3 words :)
          You do realize that narrowbodies to/from Hawaii is nothing new right? In fact widebodies have been the exception for the last 30 years or so.
           
          Armadillo1
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:12 pm

          lightsaber wrote:
          I also won't fly the ARJ-21 or C-919 as they have design compromises I strongly disagree with.


          can you tell more?
           
          Armadillo1
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:20 pm

          WayexTDI wrote:
          I am pretty sure the replenishing rate of air is very similar between a narrow or a wide body; so, if the fumes are coming from the engine, and unless you're on a 787, the cabin will fill with fumes about as quickly in a wide body than a narrow body.

          1) what about A350/
          2) i still wayting when they did the same with NB
           
          BlueberryWheats
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:24 pm

          RightRudder wrote:
          Two, Three, Four engines. Logic or no logic. Vent or no vent.

          I trust a "widebody" over the pacific pond any day. More breathing room & more fuel = more time.


          Being a wide body doesn't necessarily mean you have more fuel time. Airlines don't just fill 'em to the top and send them on their way.

          If a flight is 8 hours long then a NB or WB on the same route would fuel up for an 8 hour flight (plus reserves etc).
           
          barney captain
          Posts: 2210
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:52 pm

          WayexTDI wrote:
          How can you vent out fumes in an airplane, short of opening the doors??? Full depressurization will ensure.


          By using the outflow valve. The Smoke Removal QRH calls for putting the remaining PACK(S) on high, and raising the cabin altitude to 10k feet, causing the outflow valve to open further and venting the smoke out.
          Southeast Of Disorder
           
          User avatar
          hOMSaR
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:53 pm

          All the extra fuel capacity of a widebody didn't seem to help Air Canada on a 767 in the early 1980s, nor the Air Transat A330 over the Azores a few years ago.
          The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
          There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
          A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
          Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
           
          Redd
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:02 pm

          lightsaber wrote:
          I also won't fly the ARJ-21 or C-919 as they have design compromises I strongly disagree with. I

          Lightsaber



          Could you elaborate on that, I would be very interested in why.
           
          barney captain
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:20 pm

          Aptivaboy wrote:
          I always wondered what would happen if this occurred at about halfway between Hawaii and the mainland. This happened 20 minutes outside of HNL.


          It actually has, at least in terms of medical and other mechanical issues. The short answer is that planes divert to the nearest airport. The thing is, that far overwater it often means making some interesting decisions due to the prevailing wind and weather patterns at the time. Last year, I think it was, a westbound bird was slightly past the midpoint and still turned around and went back to the mainland because it was actually slightly faster than continuing on to the Islands. Sorry, I don't recall the flight number but it was on the Hawaiian travel blogs that I frequent. Some of the passengers weren't happy but the winds made it necessary to make that particular choice. I'm pretty sure this happened to a Hawaiian 767 a few years ago, too.

          Sorry I don't have any more information. Maybe a few pilots who fly overwater can chime in with more wisdom on how these decisions are made?


          The decision is actually made prior to every flight. Every etops flight has a computed ETP, or Equal Time Point (longer flights have more than one for multiple diversion points along the way). But for flights to HI from the mainland, there is just the one. This point varies for every flight depending on the forecast winds. As one can image, the closest airport may not be the quickest - and it's all about time (meaning fuel). If a diversion for any reason is required prior to that point, you turn around, if past, you press on. The planning gets quite involved and considers multiple scenarios; engine failure, depressurization, and engine failure combined with depressurization. In the case of the 737, the most critical scenario in terms of highest fuel burn is the depressurization with both engines still running. We carry enough fuel to lose pressurization exactly at the ETP, descend to 10k feet and make it to an airport. Additionally, the etops certification (180 mins in the case of the 737/A321) is predicated on (among other things) the cargo holds being rated to contain a fire for that amount of time plus a buffer. The cargo holds on the 737 (and I assume the A321) are rated for 195 minutes of fire containment.
          Southeast Of Disorder
           
          Aptivaboy
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:33 pm

          barney captain, thank you. That's superbly informative.
           
          WayexTDI
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:37 pm

          Armadillo1 wrote:
          WayexTDI wrote:
          I am pretty sure the replenishing rate of air is very similar between a narrow or a wide body; so, if the fumes are coming from the engine, and unless you're on a 787, the cabin will fill with fumes about as quickly in a wide body than a narrow body.

          1) what about A350/
          2) i still wayting when they did the same with NB

          787 has bleedless engines, so the pressurization is done via electric fans/compressors.
          From memory, the A350 engines have a traditional bleed system.
           
          WayexTDI
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:39 pm

          barney captain wrote:
          WayexTDI wrote:
          How can you vent out fumes in an airplane, short of opening the doors??? Full depressurization will ensure.


          By using the outflow valve. The Smoke Removal QRH calls for putting the remaining PACK(S) on high, and raising the cabin altitude to 10k feet, causing the outflow valve to open further and venting the smoke out.

          I wasn't sure about that, so I didn't make mention of it.
          Regardless, the procedure doesn't differ between a narrow and a wide body, which was to what I was responding.

          Thanks for the info though.
           
          Etheereal
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:22 pm

          RightRudder wrote:
          These narrow body ETOPs should not be flying over water. Just need one incident of accidental engine shutdown or even worse, smoke in cabin.

          Get on with the times, grandpa. ETOPS are precisely for that.
          JetBuddy wrote:
          "737 slides off the runway" is the new "Florida man"..

          :lol:
           
          TWA902fly
          Posts: 3052
          Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:46 pm

          Armadillo1 wrote:
          WayexTDI wrote:
          I am pretty sure the replenishing rate of air is very similar between a narrow or a wide body; so, if the fumes are coming from the engine, and unless you're on a 787, the cabin will fill with fumes about as quickly in a wide body than a narrow body.

          1) what about A350/
          2) i still wayting when they did the same with NB


          787 has a no-bleed system for cabin pressurization. On most airliners, cabin pressure comes from bleed air from the engine and is controlled by outflow valves. The 787 does not use bleed air, and as such, if there are fumes being created from oil leaking onto an engine, those fumes wouldn't necessarily enter the cabin. The A350 has a more conventional bleed-air cabin pressurization system.

          '902
          life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
           
          Lukas757
          Posts: 21
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:17 pm

          barney captain wrote:
          In the case of the 737, the most critical scenario in terms of highest fuel burn is the depressurization with both engines still running. We carry enough fuel to lose pressurization exactly at the ETP, descend to 10k feet and make it to an airport.


          So a 737 uses less fuel with one engine out at 10k feet? Interesting. I understand that the required total thrust at 10k is quite low, so the single working engine can (has to) be operated on a higher, more economic thrust level, but I thought that economic advantage would be diminished by the drag of the shutdown engine.
           
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          WesternDC6B
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:25 pm

          It was not smoke. It was just that new-airplane smell.
          Remember: Only one dwarf in seven is Happy.
           
          RightRudder
          Posts: 129
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:34 pm

          TWA902fly wrote:
          Armadillo1 wrote:
          WayexTDI wrote:
          I am pretty sure the replenishing rate of air is very similar between a narrow or a wide body; so, if the fumes are coming from the engine, and unless you're on a 787, the cabin will fill with fumes about as quickly in a wide body than a narrow body.

          1) what about A350/
          2) i still wayting when they did the same with NB


          787 has a no-bleed system for cabin pressurization. On most airliners, cabin pressure comes from bleed air from the engine and is controlled by outflow valves. The 787 does not use bleed air, and as such, if there are fumes being created from oil leaking onto an engine, those fumes wouldn't necessarily enter the cabin. The A350 has a more conventional bleed-air cabin pressurization system.

          '902
          Thank you for that clarification and fact on 787 electric pressurization. Questions: Does the electric pressurization on the 78 work in relation with ram air and the Attitude Indicator (Artificial Horizon)? I do know pressure is equal when the end of lines A&B are equal. Which works in relation with the Attitude Indicator on the 37's, 57's and A32's the above mentioned aircrafts, correct?
          "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".
           
          WayexTDI
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:40 pm

          RightRudder wrote:
          rbavfan wrote:
          RightRudder wrote:
          These narrow body ETOPs should not be flying over water. Just need one incident of accidental engine shutdown or even worse, smoke in cabin.


          Your comment would mean that wide body ETOP's should not be flying overseas as well. There is zero difference between a narrow body twin & a wide body twin in this situation.You sound like you just don't like flying long distance on a narrow body flight.


          Big and juicy tanks. I like the well rounded ones. These 737's and 321's are to slim for me. More stick and rudder. Less computer updates.

          You're funny, ain't ya?
          The vast majority of wide bodies flying overseas these days are A330/340, A350, 777 and 787; all fly-by-wire, meaning no direct stick & rudder, all through computer.

          Same player, try again.
           
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          lightsaber
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          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:42 pm

          Folks, this isn't a thread on narrowbody ETOPs.

          RightRudder wrote:
          TWA902fly wrote:
          Armadillo1 wrote:
          1) what about A350/
          2) i still wayting when they did the same with NB


          787 has a no-bleed system for cabin pressurization. On most airliners, cabin pressure comes from bleed air from the engine and is controlled by outflow valves. The 787 does not use bleed air, and as such, if there are fumes being created from oil leaking onto an engine, those fumes wouldn't necessarily enter the cabin. The A350 has a more conventional bleed-air cabin pressurization system.

          '902
          Thank you for that clarification and fact on 787 electric pressurization. Questions: Does the electric pressurization on the 78 work in relation with ram air and the Attitude Indicator (Artificial Horizon)? I do know pressure is equal when the end of lines A&B are equal. Which works in relation with the Attitude Indicator on the 37's, 57's and A32's the above mentioned aircrafts, correct?

          Cabin pressurization has pumps always on with bleed valves. It works on differential pressure to minimize hoop stress.

          All electrical subsystems save about 3%. That is why the A220, A350, and E2 jets are going down that path. It would have prevented this issue, but is more of concern as current anti-ice and cabin pressurization require over twice the maintenance of electrical subsystems and are not fuel efficient.

          Next generation electrical subsystems will save another percent. The cabin pressurization is heavier, but I included that in the next fuel savings.

          Lightsaber
          IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
           
          StinkyPinky
          Posts: 22
          Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 pm

          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:13 pm

          STLflyer wrote:
          RightRudder wrote:
          airbazar wrote:

          I guess you answered in your first 3 words :)
          You do realize that narrowbodies to/from Hawaii is nothing new right? In fact widebodies have been the exception for the last 30 years or so.
          I would think that you could vent out more smoke in a wide body. History or statistics ain't going to change my mind on a narrow body. I like them big and juicy...


          Sure, just ask them to open a window and let some fresh air in. If you're lucky, the airplane has a lovely panoramic sunroof that they can open. And let's not forget about the 767 Cabriolet, when you really want to feel the cool breeze in your hair.


          Actually, emergency procedures to vent smoke basically tell you to crack open the door. At least on the 747, the aircraft descends to a lower altitude, the cabin is depressurized, FAs secure belts and seatbelt extensions across a door and its cracked ajar. The pressure difference caused by the slip stream will suck out the smoke from the cabin. I will have to find my old United Airlines FA manual that shows the procedure for the 747.
           
          RickNRoll
          Posts: 1748
          Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:30 am

          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:12 pm

          hiflyeras wrote:
          Armadillo1 wrote:


          Future headline...grounding of A321neo?
          IAE engine is not NEO engine.
           
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          DIRECTFLT
          Posts: 1960
          Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:26 am

          MrBretz wrote:
          I always wondered what would happen if this occurred at about halfway between Hawaii and the mainland. This happened 20 minutes outside of HNL.


          Drop down to 1,000 feet, and open the windows.
          Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
           
          LY777
          Posts: 2518
          Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

          Re: Hawaiian A321 Smoke in cabin/evac

          Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:49 am

          Noise wrote:
          LY777 wrote:
          You know what, guys? I am going to avoid brand new planes now lol.


          So...I was thinking the same thing lol. How long should we wait until a plane is no longer brand new? 5 years?


          5 years would be a minimum lol.
          Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388

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