aviationjunky wrote:dmstorm22 wrote:It's gotta be a # of hours threshold I image??
Otherwise a 10pm flight delayed to 1am would count?
I believe after 8 hours (don't quote me because it haven't worked in the industry in almost a decade), the airline is legally obligated to begin the process of refunds, rescheduling, and/or rerouting passengers at the passenger's request. That is as per the FAA. We had a guideline we had to follow, and it was broken down by hour chunk. If my memory serves me correctly, it was: 0-4 passengers don't get anything, 4-8 food/drink vouchers +/or future flight vouchers, 8+ refund/reschedule (no fee)/reroute (no fee)/future flight voucher. Obviously, there are things that ware not covered, like weather and other "acts of God" or anything out of the control of the airline, but mechanical and team member time-out would be covered.
EDIT: I'm sorry.. It was the DOT, not FAA.
So, Delta offers rerouting after any delay. I was flying to PHX a week or two ago and the flight was delayed 30min and I got a notification about being able to reroute.
The problem isn't whether these passengers could have been rerouted, its whether it made sense to. If there were delays all over the east coast, there aren't going to be a lot of options. Reroute and fly out in 1-2 days or wait 18 hours for your original flight, I will take the original flight every time. JFK-LAX, not like there were going to be very many people connecting after arriving in LAX so I don't see how cancelling the flight would have accomplished anything.
As another poster mentioned, Delta should have provided hotel rooms for passengers while they waited as per deltas own policy, that is about the only thing that could have made this better. But even if it was a 100% legit weather delay, a number of the passengers could have just gone home (likely a fair number of NYC locals on the flight) and if you aren't local, arent their usually discounted hotel rates from the airline? Last time I was delayed Delta helped me arrange a room at a Marriott for $80/night, it was a weather delay so it was my decision but they still helped.
eielef wrote:You are seriously right in most things.
1) Sure, storms and weather are not the airline fault. But, at least as I see it, there were also mechanical issues and crew issues involved in this particular flight. DL975 was many hours (18) delayed, while, for instance, AA had between 3 and 5 hours delay that same afternoon. So is not weather the real problem here.
2) JFK still has 3 other runways. LHR handles more traffic (aircraft taking off and landing) with only 2 runways. Also, similar number of movements have HKG and DXB, both with only two runways.
3) Ok, say meteorology was very bad. Still, can you say New York City has not enough hotels for all these passengers? Do you think water and cheese are the answer?
4) How long were the storms? Why other airlines departed during the evening and DL left the following day? Mechanic or crew issues. Then, airline must be responsable and give passengers a compensation, hotel, etc.
5) I'm glad you agree with me on something. I don't really know how it works in the US, who regulates everything. Say the DOT. There should be an app for the passengers to write: the airline just told us, 1 minute ago, that we are delayed because of weather. Then, the DOT will check the radars to agree if there is or no weather. Say there is no weather problem (it happens very often: there is weather just for flight XX999, while XX997 has no weather issues and departures on time 2 minutes later). If it was technical issue, there should be a scale of how long it takes to get fixed. Also, how fast are passengers informed about the issue. How accurate is what they are told. If anything isn't ice clear, then put a fine to the airline. And force the airline to compensate the passengers. E.G. when they make you board the plane which hasn't been fixed yet, just to not pay the hotels for everyone.
6) You'll accomplish, while apologizing to each passenger, that realize that behind the airline they are human beings. That is not just a machine. That they are really sorry for getting those 200 people or so over 20 hours late to LAX, leaving them to sleep in the floor. This people had commitments, family, funerals, work, holidays, and they were ruined because of extremely poor airline performance. Even by PR standards, apologizing is the cheapest option.
1) this I think is the only part that makes sense.
2) have you ever looked at NYC Airspace? Like 4+ airports have to coordinate a runway change. And I highly doubt LHR and HKG don't delay just as many flights as JFK when there is a thunderstorm in the area.
3) while NYC is big hotels don't just have empty rooms for airline weather delays, and even if there were rooms (which i suspect there were), someone still has to pay for it, either delta or the passenger.
4) I am sure if you looked at Deltas whole schedule they didn't delay every flight until the next day. 1 flight out of hundreds gets a delay because that aircraft also had maintenance/crew issues.
5) It is nice to hear about your confidence in the DOT/FAA and their app building abilities. The scale of this app that you are suggesting is ridiculous. Someone checking on every passengers report of a delay? The DOT would need more employees than the TSA, and what would they do when the weather is perfect? Perhaps there is a Big Data tool that could handle this but I doubt the DOT/FAA have the resources or know how to make it happen.
and 6) I think this line of thought is fascinating. We want our airline to do something to make them seem more human and less machine. Yet passengers continue to yell and scream at airport employees as if they were not human. Airlines as a whole might be a machine, but they are operated by, you guessed it humans. Now I am not saying you(eielef) treat airline employees poorly, but a lot of travelers do and then they expect the airline to treat them better?
You would be surprised what you can accomplish when you treat people with respect. Airlines do not (to my knowledge) have people sitting in a back room plotting away to make peoples travel miserable. They are humans trying to move people around as best they can. I have never met an employee that wasn't trying to get people where they wanted to go (not every employee was good at it but every employee tried).
Some say the airline should apologize more, I say passengers should treat airline employees with more respect.
It seems like everyone thinks airlines are out to get them (and maybe there are some CEOs that are) but the front line employee is not (unless you treat them poorly, then maybe). Employees might not always apply every policy exactly correct (because we are humans and we make mistakes) but they certainly aren't out to get you.