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Dutchy
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PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:28 am

EASYJET has grounded a pilot flying holiday jets in and out of the UK after he told pals: “I’m suicidal.”

Worried friends tipped off bosses who immediately stood down the troubled flyer.

Worried friends are thought to have tipped off easyJet bosses about the 'suicidal' pilot (stock image)
2
Worried friends are thought to have tipped off easyJet bosses about the 'suicidal' pilot (stock image)Credit: Alamy
It comes after depressed Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, 27, killed 144 passengers and six crew by crashing Flight 9524 into the French Alps in March, 2015.

easyJet insiders said they had “no choice” but to ban their pilot after he told friends: “I’m probably going to kill myself.”

In private messages on a Whats­App group, he wrote: “I thought I would meet people, make friends with colleagues . . . my life is s**t since I was born.”


Link to the Sun article

Good of Easyjet to ground him and then get him some help. Hopefully, he will be ok and will be upfront soon and more importantly feel better about his life.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:26 pm

Mental health is still ignored by so many. Airline industry especially is still rooted in the old style of therapy being a sign of trouble. Should encourage people to seek help before people get to this point.

We all need a positive release of emotion
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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par13del
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:33 pm

So we are not expecting a law suit for removing the pilot from work based on non-professional / authorized notification to the employer?
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:12 pm

par13del wrote:
So we are not expecting a law suit for removing the pilot from work based on non-professional / authorized notification to the employer?


It's The Sun, we won't be getting the full story from that article.

I'd say it's almost certain that he has been stood down on full pay pending psychiatric assessment.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
EChid
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:17 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
par13del wrote:
So we are not expecting a law suit for removing the pilot from work based on non-professional / authorized notification to the employer?


It's The Sun, we won't be getting the full story from that article.

I'd say it's almost certain that he has been stood down on full pay pending psychiatric assessment.

I would hope it's full pay. There should no barrier preventing pilots from being honest about their mental health, including fear that they will lose their income.
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william
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Lets not forget pilots are human too.
 
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zkojq
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:35 pm

par13del wrote:
So we are not expecting a law suit for removing the pilot from work based on non-professional / authorized notification to the employer?


It's an interesting and difficult issue that you raise. A Qantas SO was stood down for similar reasons last year and they went through hell trying to prove to CASA that they didn't actually have suicidal thoughts. Apparently a neighbour they were having a dispute with was the one who reported them....

Very difficult issue to deal with fairly. After the GermanWings crash nobody wants to take risks with mental health.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... hbour.html
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Murdoughnut
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:35 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Mental health is still ignored by so many. Airline industry especially is still rooted in the old style of therapy being a sign of trouble. Should encourage people to seek help before people get to this point.

We all need a positive release of emotion


I don't know how it is with ICAO, but with the FAA, suicidal folks don't get their medical certificates back.
 
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FLIHGH
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:38 pm

Murdoughnut wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Mental health is still ignored by so many. Airline industry especially is still rooted in the old style of therapy being a sign of trouble. Should encourage people to seek help before people get to this point.

We all need a positive release of emotion


I don't know how it is with ICAO, but with the FAA, suicidal folks don't get their medical certificates back.

That’s not always true.
 
Airbuser
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:56 pm

You can get you license back. The FAA allows antidepressants now. You will be out for at least a year. Your pay will depend on your contract at your airline. Mine would be less than one third what I make. Tough adjustment and a barrier to self reporting for sure. Since 911 hundreds of pilots have taken their lives. It is discussed every time we go to recurrent training.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:59 pm

I'm glad Easy will give him mental health support, hope he finds peace within and those around him give him the support he needs.
@DadCelo
 
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lightsaber
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:49 pm

Airbuser wrote:
You can get you license back. The FAA allows antidepressants now. You will be out for at least a year. Your pay will depend on your contract at your airline. Mine would be less than one third what I make. Tough adjustment and a barrier to self reporting for sure. Since 911 hundreds of pilots have taken their lives. It is discussed every time we go to recurrent training.

That would discourage self reporting. I have personally been effected by suicide:
An aquantance in high school
A dear friend of mine I literally pulled the gun out of his mouth and helped him into therapy
I talked several depressed friends into therapy (I like to think they weren't suicidal, but related).
A relative with cancer
A coworker after a really bad review

So there needs to be a path.
There is an worsening epidemic of suicide, In particular with men my age (don't worry, I'm fine, just in a demographic), so the stigma must be addressed.

I recently had a coworker who is a friend who direct reports to me, go into mild depression. I ordered him, as his boss to go do a few activities to shake the funk. As a friend I pushed him to excercise near exhaustion to clear the mind. For the record, I just took over this project as morale was that bad and a new strategy of employee management was required. First thing I did was bring on seven new people so workers could have a life. 2nd is tell the customer we couldn't meet schedule as the work force was so burned out, the work hours were being reduced. Oh, I lit off that meeting...

Pilots, in particular those working the back of the clock, have it tough.

Lightsaber
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Aceskywalker
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:12 pm

Airbuser wrote:
You can get you license back. The FAA allows antidepressants now. You will be out for at least a year. Your pay will depend on your contract at your airline. Mine would be less than one third what I make. Tough adjustment and a barrier to self reporting for sure. Since 911 hundreds of pilots have taken their lives. It is discussed every time we go to recurrent training.


Caveat with the antidepressants is that an existing airman or ATC will need to see an HIMS AME every 6 months to get the process of their special issuance renewed and every year undergo an evaluation by a PHD psychologist (not a psychiatrist MD) who specializes in FAA procedures. Said airman will need to do batteries of psych and cognitive tests at considerable out of pocket expense (I’ve heard figures of up to $5000 annually for test fees and provider fees). Additionally, they’ll need to furnish to the FAA from the airline chief pilot or ATC supervisor regarding their mood, affect, and interpersonal behavior yearly. Not to mention that there is only 4 approved antidepressants and you’re done for if you were ever on an unapproved drug or used more than 1 at the same time.

For prospective pilots with documented history of suicidal ideation its difficult to the point of “don’t even bother”. Friend of mine who had an attempt several years back and got bit by the flying bug found out the hard way when his third class was denied (guy can’t even fly light sport aircraft now). According to well known AME Dr. Bruce Chien a person with ideation history who wants to fly needs the following:

10 years of good psychiatric hygiene proven by
1) No psychiatric incidences
2) No usage of medications
3) Continual positive reviews from their employer
4) Continual positive evaluations from their psychiatric MD
5) Continual positive evaluations from their psychologist PHD

And i’m assuming that even then its not a guarantee.


At the risk of sounding excessively harsh towards people with less than stellar mental health, I wouldn’t trust someone with mental disturbances to have such an important responsibility such as piloting without those restrictions and need for continual monitoring. Frankly I think that mandated self-reporting and FAA style restrictions should be instituted for any profession with such a hands on responsibility for human life (passenger transport, healthcare workers to name a few).
 
ual763
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:25 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
Airbuser wrote:
You can get you license back. The FAA allows antidepressants now. You will be out for at least a year. Your pay will depend on your contract at your airline. Mine would be less than one third what I make. Tough adjustment and a barrier to self reporting for sure. Since 911 hundreds of pilots have taken their lives. It is discussed every time we go to recurrent training.


Caveat with the antidepressants is that an existing airman or ATC will need to see an HIMS AME every 6 months to get the process of their special issuance renewed and every year undergo an evaluation by a PHD psychologist (not a psychiatrist MD) who specializes in FAA procedures. Said airman will need to do batteries of psych and cognitive tests at considerable out of pocket expense (I’ve heard figures of up to $5000 annually for test fees and provider fees). Additionally, they’ll need to furnish to the FAA from the airline chief pilot or ATC supervisor regarding their mood, affect, and interpersonal behavior yearly. Not to mention that there is only 4 approved antidepressants and you’re done for if you were ever on an unapproved drug or used more than 1 at the same time.

For prospective pilots with documented history of suicidal ideation its difficult to the point of “don’t even bother”. Friend of mine who had an attempt several years back and got bit by the flying bug found out the hard way when his third class was denied (guy can’t even fly light sport aircraft now). According to well known AME Dr. Bruce Chien a person with ideation history who wants to fly needs the following:

10 years of good psychiatric hygiene proven by
1) No psychiatric incidences
2) No usage of medications
3) Continual positive reviews from their employer
4) Continual positive evaluations from their psychiatric MD
5) Continual positive evaluations from their psychologist PHD

And i’m assuming that even then its not a guarantee.


At the risk of sounding excessively harsh towards people with less than stellar mental health, I wouldn’t trust someone with mental disturbances to have such an important responsibility such as piloting without those restrictions and need for continual monitoring. Frankly I think that mandated self-reporting and FAA style restrictions should be instituted for any profession with such a hands on responsibility for human life (passenger transport, healthcare workers to name a few).


Yeah, Dr. Chien is the best in the business. He helped me get my unrestricted Class 1 Medical a long time ago. I was originally denied and deemed ineligible by my hometown AME, because I took some ADD meds as a child. Most other websites at the time, made it seem like I could never fly again. I was completely devastated.

However, after finding Dr. Chien, he helped me through the very difficult process. I had to be off of he medication for a full year, and then I had to go in for a drug test, followed immediately by a complete 8hr. psychiatric exam by an FAA approved neuropsychiatrist. The results of this, got me my Special Issuance Medical. Finally, after another 6 months, I had to go back to the neuropsych and take another complete 8hrs of testing. His final report determined that I am completely normal and probably never even had ADD. With this report, Dr. Chien personally called the Flight Surgeon, and the medical board in OKC, on my behalf. He explained the situation to them in great detail and knew exactly what they were going to ask (he used to be on the board). As a result, I got my unrestricted 1st class Medical and never have to go through any of that garbage ever again. He is truly a miracle worker in my mind. He charged me nothing for his services either. The rest of it, cost about $8k. As a freshman in college, I had to sell my car and empty out my meager savings account at the time, just to pay for the testing. All of this, because my pediatrician was overzealous in prescribing me some ADD meds in 4th grade.

Moral of the story, never be afraid to self-report on the Medical form. It may seem like you are screwed, but there is almost always a way to succeed. It may be hard, but it is doable, especially if you work with Dr. Chien as I did. I was told I’d never fly again by multiple AMEs. The FAA medical handbook made it seem that way too. Luckily Dr. Chien knew exactly what it would take to convince the medical board to approve my app. Even though it wasn’t published at the time, the FAA did have a specific list of procedures to follow in order to get a medical with the condition I had. If it wasn’t for Dr. Chien, I wouldn’t be flying today, and the other AMEs I went to, would still be telling kids they could never fly again.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:38 pm

I hope he gets all the help he needs, and that U2 or any other airline won't use it against him in future employment assuming he gets past it. Mental health is something we don't understand completely, and, unfortunately, most of the time we don't give it the attention it deserves. Let's hope at some point we won't be treating it the way we currently are.
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BravoOne
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:02 pm

FLIHGH wrote:
Murdoughnut wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Mental health is still ignored by so many. Airline industry especially is still rooted in the old style of therapy being a sign of trouble. Should encourage people to seek help before people get to this point.

We all need a positive release of emotion


I don't know how it is with ICAO, but with the FAA, suicidal folks don't get their medical certificates back.

That’s not always true.


I guarantee you that is not true. Good news is that the pilot finished his career without further incident.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:01 pm

BravoOne wrote:
FLIHGH wrote:
Murdoughnut wrote:

I don't know how it is with ICAO, but with the FAA, suicidal folks don't get their medical certificates back.

That’s not always true.


I guarantee you that is not true. Good news is that the pilot finished his career without further incident.


Yeah that's what confused me. Pilots who are suicidal get grounded full stop. That Easyjet pilot hopefully has a plan B career. It's why a lot of career pilots recommend prospective pilots to have education in fields unrelated to flying. Things change, health may suddenly decline or accidents happen.
 
grbauc
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:41 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Airbuser wrote:
You can get you license back. The FAA allows antidepressants now. You will be out for at least a year. Your pay will depend on your contract at your airline. Mine would be less than one third what I make. Tough adjustment and a barrier to self reporting for sure. Since 911 hundreds of pilots have taken their lives. It is discussed every time we go to recurrent training.

That would discourage self reporting. I have personally been effected by suicide:
An aquantance in high school
A dear friend of mine I literally pulled the gun out of his mouth and helped him into therapy
I talked several depressed friends into therapy (I like to think they weren't suicidal, but related).
A relative with cancer
A coworker after a really bad review

So there needs to be a path.
There is an worsening epidemic of suicide, In particular with men my age (don't worry, I'm fine, just in a demographic), so the stigma must be addressed.

I recently had a coworker who is a friend who direct reports to me, go into mild depression. I ordered him, as his boss to go do a few activities to shake the funk. As a friend I pushed him to excercise near exhaustion to clear the mind. For the record, I just took over this project as morale was that bad and a new strategy of employee management was required. First thing I did was bring on seven new people so workers could have a life. 2nd is tell the customer we couldn't meet schedule as the work force was so burned out, the work hours were being reduced. Oh, I lit off that meeting...

Pilots, in particular those working the back of the clock, have it tough.

Lightsaber



Very informative post that many managers and employers should read. Being proactive is such a good remedy vs acting after a attempt or deeper depression.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:17 am

I'm glad his friends were responsible enough to report it. It's definitely not safe to have a suicidal person at the controls of an aircraft. Maybe in the future they could get better, but they shouldn't be there right now.

One thing that always surprises me is that pilots, who arguably have one of the best jobs in the world, could feel suicidal. I always thought that a job like that in itself would make anyone feel like a successful person and it provides plenty of social and travel opportunities as well.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:47 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
I'm glad his friends were responsible enough to report it. It's definitely not safe to have a suicidal person at the controls of an aircraft. Maybe in the future they could get better, but they shouldn't be there right now.

One thing that always surprises me is that pilots, who arguably have one of the best jobs in the world, could feel suicidal. I always thought that a job like that in itself would make anyone feel like a successful person and it provides plenty of social and travel opportunities as well.


That’s slightly disingenuous and a somewhat uninformed assessment of mental health which is a complex beast and as of now is still one of the least understood parts of human health.

Piloting may be a good well paying and fulfilling job, but it can also be a really stressful one, especially for those at the bottom of seniority. Being on reserve, commuting, multiple days away from family (especially if you’re married and have children). Doesn’t even take into account of things that can happen outside the workplace. Whenever someone’s mental health comes up, armchair psychiatrists crawl out of the woodwork. Common sense dictates that judgement shouldn’t be passed without a good faith attempt to gather all the facts, and in this case along with many others, the facts aren’t available (nor should everyone be privy to them). What happens to the Easyjet pilot is between him, the airline, his mental healthcare provider, and the civil aviation authority.
 
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zkojq
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:50 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
One thing that always surprises me is that pilots, who arguably have one of the best jobs in the world, could feel suicidal. I always thought that a job like that in itself would make anyone feel like a successful person and it provides plenty of social and travel opportunities as well.


That's why rich people and celebrities never get depressed, right?
First to fly the 787-9
 
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zeke
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:25 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
One thing that always surprises me is that pilots, who arguably have one of the best jobs in the world, could feel suicidal. I always thought that a job like that in itself would make anyone feel like a successful person and it provides plenty of social and travel opportunities as well.


The role of a pilot takes you away from a "normal" life, you cannot plan normal social sports or other recreation activities as your roster is very disruptive to being able to do the same thing at the same time week in, week out. You can be away from home when you close ones are gravely ill, partners special days, children's birthdays, nights, weekends, and most holidays. Being away so much is extremely hard on relationships.

I hope this is treated like any other medical condition like a broken leg, ie when they are suitable to hold a medical again they return to work. This should have never made the news, the stigma attached to this will place additional pressure on the person.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Flow2706
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:29 am

The pilot job is not that ‚glamorous‘ anymore. Some people decide to become pilots with a wrong expectation and are then disappointed. If you are looking for the big salary, nice long overnights in exotic places or you just want to impress people on the social media, this is the wrong job. If you are in love with flying and you are motivated intrinsically (I.e. you want to do flying for the sake of it and not because of any other motivation behind) then it can be extremely awarding and indeed a dream job. Even then a lot of things will have to be sacrificed - a stable sleep pattern, healthy relationships etc...but for many it’s worth it and the love their jobs.
 
StTim
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:46 am

Mental health issues are just that - health issues. No one is immune from potentially getting them.

Until the public see them as that rather than stigmatise them we will not move forward in people being able to self report.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:28 am

StTim wrote:
Mental health issues are just that - health issues. No one is immune from potentially getting them.

Until the public see them as that rather than stigmatise them we will not move forward in people being able to self report.


Pilots know that self reporting mental issues especially suicidal ideation is an Express ride to never sitting in a cockpit again or a lot of hoops to jump through. It's not about a stigma. It's about preserving their jobs.

Can't really blame them. We all need a paycheck to survive. And the prospect of losing your wings and job won't do a depressed pilot any favors. But ultimately safety is first and they should be nowhere near the controls of a vehicle much less a plane full of passengers. It's the aviation bureaus job to keep the public safe and if it means being seen as excessively harsh on people with mental health issues, so be it.
 
StTim
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:42 am

Aceskywalker wrote:
StTim wrote:
Mental health issues are just that - health issues. No one is immune from potentially getting them.

Until the public see them as that rather than stigmatise them we will not move forward in people being able to self report.


Pilots know that self reporting mental issues especially suicidal ideation is an Express ride to never sitting in a cockpit again or a lot of hoops to jump through. It's not about a stigma. It's about preserving their jobs.

Can't really blame them. We all need a paycheck to survive. And the prospect of losing your wings and job won't do a depressed pilot any favors. But ultimately safety is first and they should be nowhere near the controls of a vehicle much less a plane full of passengers. It's the aviation bureaus job to keep the public safe and if it means being seen as excessively harsh on people with mental health issues, so be it.


I understand that is how it is BUT to get proper reporting then things do need to change. Those who have long term mental health issues shouldn't be behing the stick. BUT not all people who have episodes are long term dangers.
 
BravoOne
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:20 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
I'm glad his friends were responsible enough to report it. It's definitely not safe to have a suicidal person at the controls of an aircraft. Maybe in the future they could get better, but they shouldn't be there right now.

One thing that always surprises me is that pilots, who arguably have one of the best jobs in the world, could feel suicidal. I always thought that a job like that in itself would make anyone feel like a successful person and it provides plenty of social and travel opportunities as well.


That’s slightly disingenuous and a somewhat uninformed assessment of mental health which is a complex beast and as of now is still one of the least understood parts of human health.

Piloting may be a good well paying and fulfilling job, but it can also be a really stressful one, especially for those at the bottom of seniority. Being on reserve, commuting, multiple days away from family (especially if you’re married and have children). Doesn’t even take into account of things that can happen outside the workplace. Whenever someone’s mental health comes up, armchair psychiatrists crawl out of the woodwork. Common sense dictates that judgement shouldn’t be passed without a good faith attempt to gather all the facts, and in this case along with many others, the facts aren’t available (nor should everyone be privy to them). What happens to the Easyjet pilot is between him, the airline, his mental healthcare provider, and the civil aviation authority.


I have known at least five pilots who have in one way or another taken their own lives. With the exception of one guy, it was a combination of booze and women that drove them over the top.
 
F9Animal
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:44 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Mental health is still ignored by so many. Airline industry especially is still rooted in the old style of therapy being a sign of trouble. Should encourage people to seek help before people get to this point.

We all need a positive release of emotion


And thankfully the pilot had the courage to tell his friends. That is usually a cry for help. Pilots are people too, and sometimes life just takes the best of us, and can bring us to depression. I am hopeful he will get the help needed, and I really hope this doesn't damage his career. In the same thoughts, I am hopeful he is found competent enough to get back in the air and overcome those awful feelings. I would he lying my butt off if I said I didn't have thoughts of wanting to leave this world. I am sure the same rings true for alot of us. It sucks so bad to keep our heads above water sometimes. It's crushing to have that feeling, and I wish there was a cure for feeling down.

And this is such a good reminder to everyone. No matter who you are, I would be more than happy to have you reach out to me if you ever needed someone to talk to! Most important, I hope y'all know that there are complete strangers willing to try and help. Depression is a temporary problem, and suicide is a permanent end. Just remember, better days are in store for all of us!!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:17 am

StTim wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
StTim wrote:
Mental health issues are just that - health issues. No one is immune from potentially getting them.

Until the public see them as that rather than stigmatise them we will not move forward in people being able to self report.


Pilots know that self reporting mental issues especially suicidal ideation is an Express ride to never sitting in a cockpit again or a lot of hoops to jump through. It's not about a stigma. It's about preserving their jobs.

Can't really blame them. We all need a paycheck to survive. And the prospect of losing your wings and job won't do a depressed pilot any favors. But ultimately safety is first and they should be nowhere near the controls of a vehicle much less a plane full of passengers. It's the aviation bureaus job to keep the public safe and if it means being seen as excessively harsh on people with mental health issues, so be it.


I understand that is how it is BUT to get proper reporting then things do need to change. Those who have long term mental health issues shouldn't be behing the stick. BUT not all people who have episodes are long term dangers.


The FAA has a way with this. People with episodes can prove to the FAA that they're are mentally fit to fly through the ten year waiting period as I described above quoting a well known AME. I assume there are similar policies and procedures for airmen in other countries.

For existing airmen, like those flying for the airlines, I assume there is a similar cooling off period and a whole battery of tests one will need to go through. Suicidality is 100% abnormal behavior, and the civil aviation authority has every right to question the airman's mental capacity to operate an aircraft, and permanently ground him/her if it cannot be demonstrated.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:08 am

On the one hand we want pilots to speak up about depression as it's a major risk factor, but on the other hand they are pretty much guaranteed to lose their jobs if they do.
 
ltbewr
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:51 am

Likely most pilots who do commit suicide do it during non-flying time but the fear and several circumstances of commercial pilots doing so, killing 100's is very real and has to be prevented as much as possible. Like with those that want to commit acts of terrorism, if one 'sees' something, say something to prevent a potential tragedy.as apparently occurred in this case. One has to wonder if the several recent cases of pilots reporting to duty under the influence are from those self-medicating from mental health issues
 
Chasensfo
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:08 pm

Though the rules have changed in favor of pilots having more accessible help, things still aren't easy. A good friend of mine at a US airline was out for a bout 2 years past when his doctors had cleared him to resume flying successfully medicated due to what he described as an apparent reluctance for individuals at the FAA to sign him off in the event something bad happened down the line(granted, he was one of the very first US pilots to take advantage of the new rules). Hopefully that stigma improves.
 
Checklist787
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:13 pm

william wrote:
Lets not forget pilots are human too.



That's why we need psychological assistance for pilots and for other trades!

For safety but also for them..
 
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andrefranca
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:46 pm

Mental health is very very serious and many people to this day insist to mock it, when I worked for Lider Aviacao in Brazil, which claims to be the largest private jets operator in Latin america, we literally had to work round the clock and sleep at the lounge and get a 500 USD monthly salary, and they still tried to trick us in not paying the extra food stamps for overtime... Sometimes I worked 14 consecutive days with no day off... I was so depressed, my life sucked but then I started to refuse overtime, if it was time to leave it was time to leave, one of the best days of my life happened when they fired me for "refusing to work" as they called it, I went to the best cafe in town, ate several slices of cheesecake, slept the whole afternoon, hit the gym at night, it was amazing, I am glad I fled Brazil! and pity all the unfortunate souls who did not have the same luck! and I do my best to counsel people on the same situation.
Andre F. :blockhead:
 
StTim
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:55 pm

The must work bully culture is a root cause of a lot of this problem.

Yes it is difficult. We want pilots to report but if they do they may lose their jobs. Ok so what is the support structure after that? Nothing? Well they won’t self report then. We must support people who are ill. End of!
 
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william
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:15 pm

zeke wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
One thing that always surprises me is that pilots, who arguably have one of the best jobs in the world, could feel suicidal. I always thought that a job like that in itself would make anyone feel like a successful person and it provides plenty of social and travel opportunities as well.


The role of a pilot takes you away from a "normal" life, you cannot plan normal social sports or other recreation activities as your roster is very disruptive to being able to do the same thing at the same time week in, week out. You can be away from home when you close ones are gravely ill, partners special days, children's birthdays, nights, weekends, and most holidays. Being away so much is extremely hard on relationships.

I hope this is treated like any other medical condition like a broken leg, ie when they are suitable to hold a medical again they return to work. This should have never made the news, the stigma attached to this will place additional pressure on the person.


Thank you Zeke, I wish this post could be sticky at the top Anet.
 
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william
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Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:16 pm

Flow2706 wrote:
The pilot job is not that ‚glamorous‘ anymore. Some people decide to become pilots with a wrong expectation and are then disappointed. If you are looking for the big salary, nice long overnights in exotic places or you just want to impress people on the social media, this is the wrong job. If you are in love with flying and you are motivated intrinsically (I.e. you want to do flying for the sake of it and not because of any other motivation behind) then it can be extremely awarding and indeed a dream job. Even then a lot of things will have to be sacrificed - a stable sleep pattern, healthy relationships etc...but for many it’s worth it and the love their jobs.


Thank you Flow2706, this post and Zeke's sums up today's airline pilot. This post too should be a permanent at the top of the board.
 
peterinlisbon
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: PILOT GROUNDED EasyJet banned pilot from flying after he told friends ‘I’m suicidal’ and ‘my life is s**t’

Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:25 pm

Thank you both for your replies to my question.

When I was learning to fly I remember some of us asked the teacher (who was a retired A340 captain for Iberia) if he missed being in the cockpit and he told us a story about heading back towards Europe in the early hours of the morning with the bright sunlight shining into his eyes. It didn't sound like he missed it at all. On the other hand we had a very experienced captain who had flown pretty much everything including the 744 and he still loved everything about flying and taught just for the pleasure of it.

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