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readytotaxi
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Updated: BA pilots call off strike on September 27th, 2019

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:16 pm

"The three-day strike - the first by BA pilots - could cause severe disruption, as Balpa represents about 90% of the airline's pilots."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49451142

Could be very nasty. :(
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title updated
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jomur
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:34 pm

I for one hope BA wins this one, there is more at stake than just the pilots pay. The pilots don't have much support with the general public on all the online forums i am on. The only one which seems to back the pilots is Flyertalk but most of those on there are work related travel and don't pay for their own travel and an easily change their plans at the last minute by switching to other airlines.
 
starguy
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:41 pm

I hope the pilots win, and by that I mean an agreement being reached and the strikes getting called off. Win win!
 
RobertPhoenix
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:55 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
"The three-day strike - the first by BA pilots - could cause severe disruption, as Balpa represents about 90% of the airline's pilots."
:(


?? The first by BA pilots ?? Google is your friend (maybe). Just do a search and use the "Toole" to adjust the time period to exclude current events.

Going further back I remember the strike by Concorde pilots, who wanted Jaguar XJ as their company provided cars.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:17 pm

RobertPhoenix wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
"The three-day strike - the first by BA pilots - could cause severe disruption, as Balpa represents about 90% of the airline's pilots."
:(


?? The first by BA pilots ?? Google is your friend (maybe). Just do a search and use the "Toole" to adjust the time period to exclude current events.

Going further back I remember the strike by Concorde pilots, who wanted Jaguar XJ as their company provided cars.

Robert, if you look at the post you will see that this is not my quote but the BBC, just relaying the article. ;)
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APYu
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:43 pm

jomur wrote:
but most of those on there are work related travel and don't pay for their own travel and an easily change their plans at the last minute by switching to other airlines.


These are the most profitable passengers though so even if you don’t care for them BA certainly will.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
zuckie13
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:53 pm

Anyone have more info on what the pilots are asking for compared to what they rejected. The article is short on a lot of detail other that BA apparently offering an 11.5% increase over 3 years, and the union rejecting it and that they're 5 million pounds apart.

Found that BA has around 3900 pilots, so they disagree by a but around 1280 pounds per pilot or about 430 pounds a year.

Can't the raise fares like 50 pence per flight and solve this?
 
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Slash787
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:54 pm

RobertPhoenix wrote:
Going further back I remember the strike by Concorde pilots, who wanted Jaguar XJ as their company provided cars.


I would be happy with a Mini Cooper. Are the current pilots demanding any cars?
 
jomur
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:49 pm

BALPA wants a share of the profits. Not something BA will entertain as all the other employees will then want the same.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:18 am

starguy wrote:
I hope the pilots win, and by that I mean an agreement being reached and the strikes getting called off. Win win!

The supply of pilots in Europe is not the same as in the US. Euro Pilots are coming to the states in droves for more money due to the shortage, while a kid in the UK has to CFI and work in a bar for years, even decades, for the slim hope of a slot at BA, or most any other European major.
 
Bellerophon
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:03 am

zuckie13 wrote:
...Anyone have more info on what the pilots are asking for compared to what they rejected?...


This is a short excerpt from the BALPA press release dated 23 Aug 19:

"...A day of strike action will cost BA around £40m. Three days will cost in the region of £120m. The gap between BA’s position and BALPA’s position is about £5m..."

Best Regards

Bellerophon
 
MYT332
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:26 am

Bellerophon wrote:

"...A day of strike action will cost BA around £40m. Three days will cost in the region of £120m. The gap between BA’s position and BALPA’s position is about £5m..."



So, when does Cruz get his P45?
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BA777FO
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:06 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
starguy wrote:
I hope the pilots win, and by that I mean an agreement being reached and the strikes getting called off. Win win!

The supply of pilots in Europe is not the same as in the US. Euro Pilots are coming to the states in droves for more money due to the shortage, while a kid in the UK has to CFI and work in a bar for years, even decades, for the slim hope of a slot at BA, or most any other European major.


As much as I'd love to I'm not going to comment on the dispute itself but I must correct the above.

Euro pilots are not going to the USA in droves for several reasons. First, unless you have the right to reside and work in the USA (American passport or Green Card eligibility through birth or marriage) then you can't work in the USA for an airline. Secondly, you can't fly in the USA on an EASA licence, you'd need to convert it to an FAA licence, which would cost ~$10,000 and take several months.

The European system is vastly different. It's very common to find yourself in the right hand seat of an A320 or B737 with 250 hours logged (plus a shed load of sim time) - lots of airlines have cadet systems largely because they come with "cadet" payscales.

Slim hope of a slot at BA? BA has recruited ~25% of its pilots in the last 3 to 4 years. Not sure where you get your information from but it's completely wide of the mark.
 
Someone83
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:53 am

Could there be more than just pay their are disagreeing about?
 
rbavfan
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:30 am

zuckie13 wrote:
Anyone have more info on what the pilots are asking for compared to what they rejected. The article is short on a lot of detail other that BA apparently offering an 11.5% increase over 3 years, and the union rejecting it and that they're 5 million pounds apart.

Found that BA has around 3900 pilots, so they disagree by a but around 1280 pounds per pilot or about 430 pounds a year.

Can't the raise fares like 50 pence per flight and solve this?


How can 1280 pound per pilot equal 430 pound a year?
 
TC957
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:47 am

Has Cruz been on the phone to Al Baker requesting QR's assistance again by bringing up a few of QR's A320's & A330's like the last two BA strike occasions ?
 
Natflyer
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:41 am

rbavfan wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
Anyone have more info on what the pilots are asking for compared to what they rejected. The article is short on a lot of detail other that BA apparently offering an 11.5% increase over 3 years, and the union rejecting it and that they're 5 million pounds apart.

Found that BA has around 3900 pilots, so they disagree by a but around 1280 pounds per pilot or about 430 pounds a year.

Can't the raise fares like 50 pence per flight and solve this?


How can 1280 pound per pilot equal 430 pound a year?


1280/3=426,66. Its a 3 year contract (potentially) so he split the difference over 3 years.
 
ltbewr
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:00 pm

The relative small amount of money in this dispute suggests it may be from adjustments not in favor of pilots as to staffing use, discipline, health, pension and other benefits like a company car (a common perk in the UK due to their tax laws).

One other big issue may be over the soon to be final step in Brexit by 31 October. They may want all they can get now before it sets in, won't be able to bring a dispute to an EC tribunal that might be more favorable to them, the likely worsening decline in the value of the UK Pound, or affect on their having a job as it kicks in.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:34 pm

Update.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49458342

It seems that the 2 days of strike action has turned into 5 days of cancellations to prevent crew and planes being in the wrong place. People are very frustrated that they can not get through to the BA customer support desk, overwhelmed I guess. Others reporting that their cancelled flights are still on sale on the website. The link provides information on customers rights that BA must meet.
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zuckie13
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:35 pm

Natflyer wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
Anyone have more info on what the pilots are asking for compared to what they rejected. The article is short on a lot of detail other that BA apparently offering an 11.5% increase over 3 years, and the union rejecting it and that they're 5 million pounds apart.

Found that BA has around 3900 pilots, so they disagree by a but around 1280 pounds per pilot or about 430 pounds a year.

Can't the raise fares like 50 pence per flight and solve this?


How can 1280 pound per pilot equal 430 pound a year?


1280/3=426,66. Its a 3 year contract (potentially) so he split the difference over 3 years.


Exactly how I did my math.
 
Bluesky58
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:42 pm

Data point

My LHR to PHX 9/11 and my friend’s 9/12 (same routing) just got reinstated after getting cancelled yesterday afternoon. Something up or an overzealous scheduling manager yesterday? I guess they are new to this strike thing so all is forgiven.

BTW it will be 49 years between 747 flights . The first being Pan Am JFK to SJU. Wonder if the old girl has changed much.......
 
ro318
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:13 pm

Bluesky58 wrote:
Data point

My LHR to PHX 9/11 and my friend’s 9/12 (same routing) just got reinstated after getting cancelled yesterday afternoon. Something up or an overzealous scheduling manager yesterday? I guess they are new to this strike thing so all is forgiven.

BTW it will be 49 years between 747 flights . The first being Pan Am JFK to SJU. Wonder if the old girl has changed much.......


I got the same message for BA114 JFK-LHR for 9/10 but now shows as cancelled again on my booking
 
AMALH747430
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:33 pm

With the "flight shaming" movement gaining traction in Europe, this may not be the best time for Euro airline personnel to strike. Some passengers forced to make a journey by train may decide to take more rail vs plane journeys in the future.

This also isn't good for AA who depends heavily on BA's LHR network to get folks to destination they don't serve on their own metal in Europe.

Whether the passengers are pushed to rail, Sky Team, or Star, it's never a good idea to give your customers a chance to sample the competition. Especially when you consider BA's decline in service standards compared to it's peers.
 
Canuck600
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:25 pm

As a Canadian this concept of "scheduled strikes" is foreign to me, is there a particular reason for this style of job action? In Canada they would go on strike until things are settled.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:35 pm

My same thought! When I went on strike at Eastern, it was you win or we lose proposition. I looked at my situation as resigning, not getting a three-day vacation.

GF
 
RollerRB211
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:54 pm

zuckie13 wrote:
Anyone have more info on what the pilots are asking for compared to what they rejected. The article is short on a lot of detail other that BA apparently offering an 11.5% increase over 3 years, and the union rejecting it and that they're 5 million pounds apart.

Found that BA has around 3900 pilots, so they disagree by a but around 1280 pounds per pilot or about 430 pounds a year.

Can't the raise fares like 50 pence per flight and solve this?


If RM thought the market would allow fares to be higher, they would have already raised them.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:06 am

British Airways, like their partner American, is and has been racing to the bottom of the barrel for years now. They are a cheapskate carrier relying heavily on their prior respect earned now over a decade or more ago.

FYI: No one can EVER get a hold of this carrier, so that's nothing new, and when they do answer, they treat you like the biggest inconvenience they have ever had to deal with, and its their job to deal with you so ROFL, pathetic.

Hope the pilots bend BA over on this one, this carrier and management team deserves it
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bob75013
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:13 pm

Interesting story about BA sending cancellation notices TO THE WRONG PASSENGERS

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/british- ... -customers
 
max999
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:39 pm

BA admits it made errors in sending cancellation emails to the wrong passengers. It will refund those who booked alternatives because of the wrong emails.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-49471720
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skipness1E
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:47 pm

Rumours tonight that CEO Alex Cruz and COO Klaus Goresch have left the business. Dare I hope?
 
penguins
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:18 pm

RobertPhoenix wrote:
Going further back I remember the strike by Concorde pilots, who wanted Jaguar XJ as their company provided cars.


Do you have a source for this? I can't find anything online about the strike and would like to learn more.
 
solracfunk14
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:00 am

Any guess on routes being cancelled?
 
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MrBren
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:13 am

 
xijiayu
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:34 am

All LHR and LGW flights to/ from GLA have been cancelled today. I think it affects a lot of connecting passengers from GLA.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:41 am

With T5 a bit of a ghost town I guess now would be a good time to bring forward any maintenance issues, baggage handling and the like. The catering company will have to sit on 2 days of extra supplies, might cause a ripple in their supply chain. ATC will have a less stressful time and the local residents will probably notice the difference. So not all bad news.
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:08 am

FR24 showing just 10 BA flights airborne at this time; nine a/c returning home, plus BA245 that took off from LHR late last night (before the strike took effect) and is now just approaching EZE.

On the upside; the residents of London and the Thames Valley must be enjoying the relative quiet today.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
ltbewr
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:25 am

The timing of this strike/job action by pilots is interesting. While BA's parent company has had great profits in the last several years, they are likely to take a hit in Brexit, especially a 'no deal' one. Better to force a deal now rather than post-Brexit. I also suspect the push by pilots is due to the extremely high costs of living in their London base compounded by no or low wage increases in the 2008 - 2012 era, so their expected standard of living has declined.
 
uta999
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:51 am

It would be interesting to see some photos of all the grounded BA planes parked at LHR and elsewhere. It must be a logistics nightmare finding enough space, plus the aircraft and crews are now in the wrong place.
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steeler83
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:04 pm

PIT-LHR is cancelled - is the 787 going to sit at PIT indefinitely or would they have someone come in to ferry the plane back to London? I'm thinking it's the latter. Forgive me; don't know much about the logistics of planes when it comes to these strikes.
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ChrisNH38
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:28 pm

BA just kept a couple of their A380s stateside instead of sending them back. The Boston inbound went to Dulles; the SFO inbound went to Oakland.
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flightuk
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:38 pm

3.8% for the next 3 years and they still decided to strike, they are playing a high stakes game here. This could really damage the airline. I hope it works out ok for all involved, albeit the customers have now been damaged, and as we all know they are quite important in all this.
 
steeler83
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:59 pm

flightuk wrote:
3.8% for the next 3 years and they still decided to strike, they are playing a high stakes game here. This could really damage the airline. I hope it works out ok for all involved, albeit the customers have now been damaged, and as we all know they are quite important in all this.

Agreed. If it were me, I'd be happy with a 3.8% raise. I worked for a company that gave a 20 CENT raise each year...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
jomur
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:12 pm

Reading on the BBC website it seems BALPA wants to get BA to change its direction and future actions as well as want a share in profits (not going to happen as all the rest of the BA employees and then all the other IAG employees will want the same). Its seems to me that just aepay rise isn't the issue in this dispute.. If that was all BALPA wanted the strikes would not have gone ahead.

BA will not give in on this as they will lose more in the long run. Also it will be interesting to see how those pilots that use staff travel to get to work are going to react now its has been withdrawn from them including thier families booked using them as well when that part kicks in.
 
DWC
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:15 pm

Seems most flights today are cancelled, perhaps even tomorrow.
BA claims that the strike costs them £40m.
The union that the difference between what costs BA & what they’re asking for is £5m - maybe.
https://onemileatatime.com/british-airw ... -underway/

Considering how IAG have become profitable, it is only normal that pilots ask for a slice of the bigger cake, after all it is they who fly the money making frames. Now, what about crew ? How low so they pay their mixed fleet FA ?
Either way, this is bad management & bad publicity for BA, going AF's way :
there is no reason BA should be going so stingy with their workforce & with Pax alike, cramming them ever more including in premium.
Shows monopolistic behaviour & market failure.
It the tiny 9,5 million UAE can have 2 global FSCs, surely superconnector LHR in 66 million UK could sustain a second sizable local FSC to have healthy competition, specially service wise. Virgin tried but is still too small to be of any influence, FR & Easyjet do part of the job but as LLCs, so BA pretty much does what it wants, with the consequences we see now.
Last edited by DWC on Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:16 pm

Canuck600 wrote:
As a Canadian this concept of "scheduled strikes" is foreign to me, is there a particular reason for this style of job action? In Canada they would go on strike until things are settled.

It's not new, and according to some viewpoints it can be a more civilized way of going about things.

And cunning too. :twisted:

BA have got to be pretty determined to sack people who are on strike today & tomorrow, but coming back to work the day after that. In many minds the responsibility for cancelled flights in the next 48hrs is maybe split 50:50 between BA & the pilots. But if BA wave the big stick the responsibility for any further cancelled flights falls 100% on BA.

Also a single day (or 48 hrs) of action causes maximum disruption for minimum loss of pay. Indeed, lots of employees could be enjoying overtime bonuses over the next week as the airline struggles to get things back on track.

And finally, the threat of further action at a specific scheduled date in the near future suddenly becomes very very real and focusses everyone's minds on reaching a compromise before that date arrives.

By comparison; going out on indefinite strike seems very 1970's.

So what's not to like? :bigthumbsup:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
Andy33
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:19 pm

steeler83 wrote:
PIT-LHR is cancelled - is the 787 going to sit at PIT indefinitely or would they have someone come in to ferry the plane back to London? I'm thinking it's the latter. Forgive me; don't know much about the logistics of planes when it comes to these strikes.

This is not an indefinite period strike. The pilots are out for just two days, so the plane and crew is now in the correct place to operate PIT-LHR on 11 September.
These one or two day strikes are common in many countries - the strikers don't lose so much income, they usually cannot be sacked for going on strike as they have a legal right to do so, and in some ways the disruption and cost to the employers is as great as if they went out and stayed out.
 
Virtual737
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:30 pm

DWC wrote:
Seems most flights today are cancelled, perhaps even tomorrow.
BA claims that the strike costs them £40m.
The union that the difference between what costs BA & what they’re asking for is £5m - maybe.
https://onemileatatime.com/british-airw ... -underway/

Considering how IAG have become profitable, it is only normal that pilots ask for a slice of the bigger cake, after all it is they who fly the money making frames. Now, what about crew ? How low so they pay their mixed fleet FA ?
Either way, this is bad management & bad publicity for BA, going AF's way :
there is no reason BA should be going so stingy with their workforce & with Pax alike, cramming them ever more including in premium.
Shows monopolistic behaviour & market failure.
It the tiny 9,5 million UAE can have 2 global FSCs, surely superconnector LHR in 66 million UK could sustain a second sizable local FSC to have healthy competition, specially service wise. Virgin tried but is still too small to be of any influence, FR & Easyjet do part of the job but as LLCs, so BA pretty much does what it wants, with the consequences we see now.



If they want a share in the profits they can.... buy shares and get dividends. Of course this involves an investment and they might lose some money too.

For the union to say that the cost of the strike to BA far outweighs the difference between their demands and what BA has offered is no way to negotiate.

Stay on strike. Take the airline down with you. Reap what you sow.
 
DWC
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:01 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
If they want a share in the profits they can.... buy shares and get dividends. Of course this involves an investment and they might lose some money too.
For the union to say that the cost of the strike to BA far outweighs the difference between their demands and what BA has offered is no way to negotiate.
Stay on strike. Take the airline down with you. Reap what you sow.

That's not how societies work, and society in many languages means private company ( whether or not publicly traded ).
Investors & shareholders have every right to earn profits on their money.
But so do all workers who actually make that happen.
Reserving the money to shareholders who sit there waiting their arms folded & legs on the table drinking scotch is not only morally wrong, it is economically asinine. All economic & social studies show that sharing dividends with the workforce actually not only keeps them content & calm, but also augments productivity. Good for everyone involved, including pax : by culture but also because of relative good pays, East Asian airlines are in another league in terms of courtesy & customer service.

A strike means a management failure. You'd hardly see that in Germany or Japan ( but it did happen to LH lately ).
It is management's duty to manage a company well & keep workforce happy, specially the pilots, who were not asking anything remotedly close to IAG's profits.
Stay filthily stingy & expect more strikes. Images goes down, loyalty dwindles or pax go elsewhere, then more strikes terrible management.

If I were a majority shareholder, I would sack the current board, for that & pathetic customer service. Same of AA's. OneWorld, what a coincidence, without CX, JL, QF, LA and QR, OW is now an empty shell.
Last edited by DWC on Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
jamsco99
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Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:01 pm

steeler83 wrote:
PIT-LHR is cancelled - is the 787 going to sit at PIT indefinitely or would they have someone come in to ferry the plane back to London? I'm thinking it's the latter. Forgive me; don't know much about the logistics of planes when it comes to these strikes.


I assume it will sit overnight at pit and the next days flight from lhr to pit will be cancelled
 
TXMikeDC
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:47 pm

Re: BA pilots to strike, 9-10 27 September.

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:02 pm

I assume this is why BA’s BWI-LHR flight last night and LHR-BWI flight today are cancelled. Any idea why BA switched from a 787 to a 777 on the route a couple weeks ago?

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