UA857
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:10 am

Another route that UA inherited from Pan Am is gone again.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6832
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:51 am

UA857 wrote:
Another route that UA inherited from Pan Am is gone again.

PA didn't fly EWR-EZE.

EWR-EZE has been a relatively tough nut to crack for CO/UA. It's been started and stopped a handful of times.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4116
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:03 am

TWA772LR wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Another route that UA inherited from Pan Am is gone again.

PA didn't fly EWR-EZE.

EWR-EZE has been a relatively tough nut to crack for CO/UA. It's been started and stopped a handful of times.


But in a broader sense what UA857 says is not far fetched. Pan Am did operate the first ever non stop to Buenos Aires from New York Idlewild in 1963 and continued to do so until its disappearance in 1991. United took over the route in 1993, dropped it in 2002 due to them closing most flying out of JFK. Moved the route from IAD to EWR in 2012, closed it in 2013, back on in 2017 and now closing it again in 2019.

AR was operating the Comet IVs to Idlewild since 1959, but due to its range limitations it had to stop at Rio de Janeiro GIG and Port of Spain en route to NYC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfFYlDISDqc
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:48 am

TWA772LR wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Another route that UA inherited from Pan Am is gone again.

PA didn't fly EWR-EZE.

EWR-EZE has been a relatively tough nut to crack for CO/UA. It's been started and stopped a handful of times.


CO never operated EWR-EZE with its own aircraft.. CO launched IAH-EZE in 2005 and the IAH route lives on and continues to operate as UA. The NYC to EZE route UA operates, on and off, as has been said before, is actually a legacy pmUA route. It operated initially from JFK in the 1990s post-Pan Am and then moved to IAD during the UA bankruptcy. It moved back to EWR when it was restarted in 2012 and was dropped in 2013 due to Argentina's economic crisis then. It was re-started in 2017 and is being suspended in October 2019.

The reason UA starts and drops EZE is not because it is a "tough nut to crack". The issue is Argentina's economy, which is a boom and bust cycle and has been for decades. The economy there is not doing well, and with the currency exchange rate being what it is, the yields are not good, particularly on anything POS originating in Argentina. Business demand from NYC is likely down due to Argentina's economy.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:30 am

You certainly can't fault UA for trying to make EZE work! They have tried to serve this market via EWR, IAD, JFK, MIA and ORD without success in recent years. They also operated an onward tag to MVD for a while. At least service via IAH has been consistent. I wonder if AA's new LAX-EZE flights are on the chopping block as well?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4116
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:19 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
You certainly can't fault UA for trying to make EZE work! They have tried to serve this market via EWR, IAD, JFK, MIA and ORD without success in recent years. They also operated an onward tag to MVD for a while. At least service via IAH has been consistent. I wonder if AA's new LAX-EZE flights are on the chopping block as well?


Quick answer: no. LAX-EZE as well as MIA-COR are performing above expectations. LAX has been a success since day one.

United has been a bit spotty in Argentina since they stopped serving MIA in 2002. For a good portion of the 90s they were ahead of AA in market share. AA now owns the US-Argentina market. Their own problems on the road to bankruptcy did not help and then moving to IAD didn't help things. Before then, JFK was stopped due to the airline's own reasons. And EWR flights don't lack in patronage, just not the profitable one when Argentina has one of its recurrent crisis. They'll be back eventually.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
leftcoast8
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:59 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:27 am

UA857 wrote:
Another route that UA inherited from Pan Am is gone again.


This is off topic, but I wonder if United ever inherited Karachi, which was a stop on Pan Am's RTW flight.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12496
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:34 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA seems to be purposing their hubs more strictly. EWR for Europe, SFO for Asia, IAH for Latin America, DEN for domestic, and ORD is still the jack of all trades hub.

Not really sure how ORD can be the "jack of all trades" hub when EWR has far more UA service to both Asia and LatAm, in addition to its European flows, than ORD does.

If anything, it's by far the most diverse of the hubs, followed by SFO which also has a significant European contingent in addition to its massive Asian service.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
klwright69
Posts: 2691
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:49 pm

Someone nailed it above. Eventually UA will return to EWR-EZE. They always do.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6786
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:58 pm

klwright69 wrote:
Someone nailed it above. Eventually UA will return to EWR-EZE. They always do.


And can the route again once the Argentinian economy struggles a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5872
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:25 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA seems to be purposing their hubs more strictly. EWR for Europe, SFO for Asia, IAH for Latin America, DEN for domestic, and ORD is still the jack of all trades hub.

Not really sure how ORD can be the "jack of all trades" hub when EWR has far more UA service to both Asia and LatAm, in addition to its European flows, than ORD does.

If anything, it's by far the most diverse of the hubs, followed by SFO which also has a significant European contingent in addition to its massive Asian service.


That’s because you’re neglecting domestic destinations. ORD has far more of those. When those are factored in, I stand by my statement.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12496
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:51 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Not really sure how ORD can be the "jack of all trades" hub when EWR has far more UA service to both Asia and LatAm, in addition to its European flows, than ORD does. If anything, it's by far the most diverse of the hubs, followed by SFO which also has a significant European contingent in addition to its massive Asian service.

That’s because you’re neglecting domestic destinations. ORD has far more of those. When those are factored in, I stand by my statement.

If by "far more of those" you mean 71 mainline UA domestic destinations (EWR) versus 86 (ORD), with only a small variance in regional flying--- then sure.

....but gonna venture on not-much-of-a limb and say that you're grasping at straws, to give validity to a statement that was never really thought through. ;)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
TW870
Posts: 1014
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:11 am

klwright69 wrote:
The fact that the flight uses two frames sure doesnt help the economics of the route either.


Ding ding! The most valuable observation of the discussion. So many posters on here want to make this about Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, when in reality the economics of US northeast to Argentina are extremely difficult, and have never lent themselves to sustained service. You not only have the double overnight rotation with long ground time down south, but you have very long block time from the northeast of the US. EWR-EZE is longer than SFO-NRT, and so you have to have strong, consistent economies on both sides (especially since you can run SFO-NRT as a turn). Argentina is a wealthy country with a cyclical economy, and anything out of the US northeast is going to be touchy. I think the political commentary in this thread is completely overblown.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5872
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:24 am

LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Not really sure how ORD can be the "jack of all trades" hub when EWR has far more UA service to both Asia and LatAm, in addition to its European flows, than ORD does. If anything, it's by far the most diverse of the hubs, followed by SFO which also has a significant European contingent in addition to its massive Asian service.

That’s because you’re neglecting domestic destinations. ORD has far more of those. When those are factored in, I stand by my statement.

If by "far more of those" you mean 71 mainline UA domestic destinations (EWR) versus 86 (ORD), with only a small variance in regional flying--- then sure.

....but gonna venture on not-much-of-a limb and say that you're grasping at straws, to give validity to a statement that was never really thought through. ;)


Cut the pomposity. Singling our mainline flights is ridiculous. The network as a whole must be considered and when that is the case my statement is absolutely correct.

https://hub.united.com/airport-fact-she ... l-airport/

https://hub.united.com/airport-fact-she ... l-airport/
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12496
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:10 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
That’s because you’re neglecting domestic destinations. ORD has far more of those. When those are factored in, I stand by my statement.

If by "far more of those" you mean 71 mainline UA domestic destinations (EWR) versus 86 (ORD), with only a small variance in regional flying--- then sure.

....but gonna venture on not-much-of-a limb and say that you're grasping at straws, to give validity to a statement that was never really thought through. ;)


Cut the pomposity. Singling our mainline flights is ridiculous.

The reason for that was given, the disparity in regional is highly.... regional.

Still the same tri-directional flows to essentially any given area of the domestic map minus concentrated regions unique to each. Hardly sufficient to distinguish one as a "jack of all trades."
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5872
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:33 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
If by "far more of those" you mean 71 mainline UA domestic destinations (EWR) versus 86 (ORD), with only a small variance in regional flying--- then sure.

....but gonna venture on not-much-of-a limb and say that you're grasping at straws, to give validity to a statement that was never really thought through. ;)


Cut the pomposity. Singling our mainline flights is ridiculous.

The reason for that was given, the disparity in regional is highly.... regional.

Still the same tri-directional flows to essentially any given area of the domestic map minus concentrated regions unique to each. Hardly sufficient to distinguish one as a "jack of all trades."


15 years ago sure. In the days of the E-175, no. Id hardly call routes like ORD-FAT/EUG regional. UA serves 40 domestic destinations outside the Midwest from ORD that it does not serve from EWR. I cant think of one domestic destination UA service to EWR that it does not serve ORD from outside the Northeast. There might be a couple, but the list wont be long.

This all said, I stand by my original claim. ORD is UA's domestic powerhouse and it also has a very healthy portfolio. EWR and SFO are more international of course, but they dont come close to ORD's domestic offerings. DEN could go toe-to-toe with ORD domestically but its doesnt come close to ORD international. IAH is king in Latin America and has a healthy domestic offering, but it doesnt have the European portfolio ORD does and only serves NRT in Asia.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
flyer56
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:46 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:48 pm

UA857 wrote:
Another route that UA inherited from Pan Am is gone again.
Well, another route that has been adjusted, multiple times in fact. I think we should allow UA to adjust their old PA routes, after all that is what PA was constantly doing themselves...
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12496
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:37 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
This all said, I stand by my original claim.

No matter how laughably arbitrary it may be, to prove a point that doesn't actually exist.....


....for example:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
ORD is UA's domestic powerhouse and it also has a very healthy portfolio. EWR and SFO are more international of course, but they dont come close to ORD's domestic offerings.

Just reverse the criteria in the second sentence, and you have a point that works in the exact opposite direction.


But stand tall, I guess.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
kondoo
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:34 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:10 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
You certainly can't fault UA for trying to make EZE work! They have tried to serve this market via EWR, IAD, JFK, MIA and ORD without success in recent years. They also operated an onward tag to MVD for a while. At least service via IAH has been consistent. I wonder if AA's new LAX-EZE flights are on the chopping block as well?



Let's remember that the only reason UA added EWREZE is because UA had inside information on how well the route does for AA ( Andrew Nocella and many network planning people from AA went to UA)
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4116
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:33 pm

kondoo wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
You certainly can't fault UA for trying to make EZE work! They have tried to serve this market via EWR, IAD, JFK, MIA and ORD without success in recent years. They also operated an onward tag to MVD for a while. At least service via IAH has been consistent. I wonder if AA's new LAX-EZE flights are on the chopping block as well?



Let's remember that the only reason UA added EWREZE is because UA had inside information on how well the route does for AA ( Andrew Nocella and many network planning people from AA went to UA)


After 27 years of operating in Argentina, one would like to think that United knows a thing or two about the market and the players on the US-Argentina routes, without having to resort to poached talent. They surely must have heard before (and have first hand experience) of AA's leadership and premium market command in Argentina.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
UA857
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:41 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:07 am

Two routes of the legacy UA are being dropped ORD-HKG and NYC-EZE.
 
N649DL
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:07 am

dcajet wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Another route that UA inherited from Pan Am is gone again.

PA didn't fly EWR-EZE.

EWR-EZE has been a relatively tough nut to crack for CO/UA. It's been started and stopped a handful of times.


But in a broader sense what UA857 says is not far fetched. Pan Am did operate the first ever non stop to Buenos Aires from New York Idlewild in 1963 and continued to do so until its disappearance in 1991. United took over the route in 1993, dropped it in 2002 due to them closing most flying out of JFK. Moved the route from IAD to EWR in 2012, closed it in 2013, back on in 2017 and now closing it again in 2019.

AR was operating the Comet IVs to Idlewild since 1959, but due to its range limitations it had to stop at Rio de Janeiro GIG and Port of Spain en route to NYC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfFYlDISDqc


EWR-EZE on UA is likely inheritance of MIA-EZE from PAA (Moved to IAD in the Early/Mid 2000s), if rather better said?
 
tpaewr
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:31 am

TWA772LR wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Another route that UA inherited from Pan Am is gone again.

PA didn't fly EWR-EZE.

EWR-EZE has been a relatively tough nut to crack for CO/UA. It's been started and stopped a handful of times.



Exactly, CO announced and never flew EWR-EZE and IAD-EZE was moved to EWR at merger.

It has nothing to do with PA and is completely the story and the boom/bust nature of EZE and legacy of CO in NYC/EWR.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:52 am

Firstly, to some people here to say that Argentina might become Venezuela .0 is ludricous. There are and will always be significant differences between these two countries and Argentina will certainly find it easier than Venezuela to recover with whatever government they have. Venuezuela's issues are deeply more political and do not serve to be commented here on A.net.

As for United's decision, I gather than the EZE-EWR route certinaly has less appeal for Argentinians than actually flying to New York into JFK. AA serves that route non-stop pretty well for now. On AA's case, there's the added benefit that, should it need to reduce capacity, it can rely on LATAM for flights via either SCL or GRU (just would need to setup codeshare if already not setup).

I feel United will consolidate their ops from EZE to IAH and this is not a catastrophe. By the way, United does not fly to NYC (be it JFK or EWR) from GRU and nopbody fusses about or say that Brazil willtank to oblivion.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:35 am

Jomar777 wrote:
Firstly, to some people here to say that Argentina might become Venezuela .0 is ludricous. There are and will always be significant differences between these two countries and Argentina will certainly find it easier than Venezuela to recover with whatever government they have. Venuezuela's issues are deeply more political and do not serve to be commented here on A.net.

As for United's decision, I gather than the EZE-EWR route certinaly has less appeal for Argentinians than actually flying to New York into JFK. AA serves that route non-stop pretty well for now. On AA's case, there's the added benefit that, should it need to reduce capacity, it can rely on LATAM for flights via either SCL or GRU (just would need to setup codeshare if already not setup).

I feel United will consolidate their ops from EZE to IAH and this is not a catastrophe. By the way, United does not fly to NYC (be it JFK or EWR) from GRU and nopbody fusses about or say that Brazil willtank to oblivion.


First of all, UA DOES fly daily between EWR and GRU and has for a long time (inheriting the pre-existing CO route between the two airports) and legacy UA flew between JFK and GRU from the mid-1990s until the route was transferred to IAD in 2002. As for whether Argentines prefer JFK or EWR, I think that point is irrelevant. AA has been flying between NYC and EZE for years and the route supposedly does very well. AA has a stronger point of sale in Latin America and is the dominant US carrier there. If the economic situation in Argentina (or the US for that matter) worsens, and AA was losing money on the route, they would cut it.

Argentina is not Venezuela and Venezuela is not Argentina, that's true and comparing the two makes no sense. They both have their problems but they are not similar.
 
NYKiwi
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:41 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:05 pm

Ok so understand this is 2 frames for the route, but could it work with a daytime return from EZE, sure its a long day but would be better aircraft utilization no doubt UA looked at this and said yields would have been garbage and can handled with only a single IAH flight. Just a thought. I know business folks like over night
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4116
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:34 pm

N649DL wrote:
dcajet wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
PA didn't fly EWR-EZE.

EWR-EZE has been a relatively tough nut to crack for CO/UA. It's been started and stopped a handful of times.


But in a broader sense what UA857 says is not far fetched. Pan Am did operate the first ever non stop to Buenos Aires from New York Idlewild in 1963 and continued to do so until its disappearance in 1991. United took over the route in 1993, dropped it in 2002 due to them closing most flying out of JFK. Moved the route from IAD to EWR in 2012, closed it in 2013, back on in 2017 and now closing it again in 2019.

AR was operating the Comet IVs to Idlewild since 1959, but due to its range limitations it had to stop at Rio de Janeiro GIG and Port of Spain en route to NYC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfFYlDISDqc


EWR-EZE on UA is likely inheritance of MIA-EZE from PAA (Moved to IAD in the Early/Mid 2000s), if rather better said?


Actually, United flew JFK-EZE between 1993-2002 and MIA-EZE from 1992 to 2002. Those were cookie cutter routes from PA's original network. It has started and stopped MIA, ORD, IAD, JFK, EWR.to EZE.. some due to recession in Argentina, others to its own issues (bankruptcy, closing of the MIA mini hub, stopping long haul flights out of JFK, etc.) so there is room for interpretation as to the origins of these flights.

United inherited Pan Am's loyal frequent flyer base in Argentina: PA had the top yielding customers in Argentina, for decades. For a few years in the 90s, UA was the #1 airline between the two countries, a distinction that was lost to American in the later part of the 90s. United's own issues, lack of focus in South America and Argentina's recurrent recessions have taken their toll. Only IAH has remained consistent, but then that route was inherited from CO.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
SurlyBonds
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:02 pm

dcajet wrote:

Quick answer: no. LAX-EZE as well as MIA-COR are performing above expectations. LAX has been a success since day one.


Would there be a case for UA to start SFO-EZE, then (especially if the Argentine economy improves)?
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4116
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:13 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
dcajet wrote:

Quick answer: no. LAX-EZE as well as MIA-COR are performing above expectations. LAX has been a success since day one.


Would there be a case for UA to start SFO-EZE, then (especially if the Argentine economy improves)?


No. Tiny market and mostly leisure driven. And not just to EZE but to GRU as well. LATAM failed miserably on the SFO-LIM a couple of years ago (and that was with LIM's ideal location as a South American regional hub). The only airline that has managed to succeed in the Bay Area-South America space is COPA leveraging the PTY hub and its unrivaled network in South America.

Additionally, connections to Asia (SFO's strength) are served just as well via IAH, DFW & LAX.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
N649DL
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:46 pm

dcajet wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:
dcajet wrote:

Quick answer: no. LAX-EZE as well as MIA-COR are performing above expectations. LAX has been a success since day one.


Would there be a case for UA to start SFO-EZE, then (especially if the Argentine economy improves)?


No. Tiny market and mostly leisure driven. And not just to EZE but to GRU as well. LATAM failed miserably on the SFO-LIM a couple of years ago (and that was with LIM's ideal location as a South American regional hub). The only airline that has managed to succeed in the Bay Area-South America space is COPA leveraging the PTY hub and its unrivaled network in South America.

Additionally, connections to Asia (SFO's strength) are served just as well via IAH, DFW & LAX.


Actually, there was thread on here a little while ago about UA's MIA Focus City and how in the late 1990s, UA was considering flying SFO/LAX-South America (in addition to MIA) because they were making money hand over fist in both markets during the "Dot Com Boom". It was also mentioned that profits on UA's MIA Focus City peaked in the late 1990s as well, MIA-EZE probably included.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4116
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:47 pm

N649DL wrote:
dcajet wrote:
SurlyBonds wrote:

Would there be a case for UA to start SFO-EZE, then (especially if the Argentine economy improves)?


No. Tiny market and mostly leisure driven. And not just to EZE but to GRU as well. LATAM failed miserably on the SFO-LIM a couple of years ago (and that was with LIM's ideal location as a South American regional hub). The only airline that has managed to succeed in the Bay Area-South America space is COPA leveraging the PTY hub and its unrivaled network in South America.

Additionally, connections to Asia (SFO's strength) are served just as well via IAH, DFW & LAX.


Actually, there was thread on here a little while ago about UA's MIA Focus City and how in the late 1990s, UA was considering flying SFO/LAX-South America (in addition to MIA) because they were making money hand over fist in both markets during the "Dot Com Boom". It was also mentioned that profits on UA's MIA Focus City peaked in the late 1990s as well, MIA-EZE probably included.


Actually, around 1994, UA flew for a brief period between LAX-GRU with the 747SP. As far as I can remember, it did not last for too long and same as Pan Am's LAX-SCL-EZE of the late 80s, it ended up being mostly sublos on board. Back then, AR & RG had the LAX-Deep South America market cornered.

As far as Argentina is concerned, most of the 90s were a boomtown for UA. A daily 747-100 to MIA, and a daily 763ER to JFK and ORD each. Until AA became the #1 carrier between the 2 markets, UA was the leader down there. Towards 2001-2, both United and Argentina collapsed, one into bankruptcy and the other one, into default.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
N649DL
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:55 pm

dcajet wrote:
N649DL wrote:
dcajet wrote:

No. Tiny market and mostly leisure driven. And not just to EZE but to GRU as well. LATAM failed miserably on the SFO-LIM a couple of years ago (and that was with LIM's ideal location as a South American regional hub). The only airline that has managed to succeed in the Bay Area-South America space is COPA leveraging the PTY hub and its unrivaled network in South America.

Additionally, connections to Asia (SFO's strength) are served just as well via IAH, DFW & LAX.


Actually, there was thread on here a little while ago about UA's MIA Focus City and how in the late 1990s, UA was considering flying SFO/LAX-South America (in addition to MIA) because they were making money hand over fist in both markets during the "Dot Com Boom". It was also mentioned that profits on UA's MIA Focus City peaked in the late 1990s as well, MIA-EZE probably included.


Actually, around 1994, UA flew for a brief period between LAX-GRU with the 747SP. As far as I can remember, it did not last for too long and same as Pan Am's LAX-SCL-EZE of the late 80s, it ended up being mostly sublos on board. Back then, AR & RG had the LAX-Deep South America market cornered.

As far as Argentina is concerned, most of the 90s were a boomtown for UA. A daily 747-100 to MIA, and a daily 763ER to JFK and ORD each. Until AA became the #1 carrier between the 2 markets, UA was the leader down there. Towards 2001-2, both United and Argentina collapsed, one into bankruptcy and the other one, into default.


Ah I think I recall finding that route on departed flights. Same deal with how UA flew the 747SP on EWR-NRT for quite a few years in the early/mid 1990s.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7045
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:36 am

Argentina is going into economic meltdown so it’s only natural to cut a route to EZE. United still flies there from Houston. UA May have a perception problem with Newark in Argentina since they associate JFK as New York’s international airport.
 
Jomar777
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:02 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
Firstly, to some people here to say that Argentina might become Venezuela .0 is ludricous. There are and will always be significant differences between these two countries and Argentina will certainly find it easier than Venezuela to recover with whatever government they have. Venuezuela's issues are deeply more political and do not serve to be commented here on A.net.

As for United's decision, I gather than the EZE-EWR route certinaly has less appeal for Argentinians than actually flying to New York into JFK. AA serves that route non-stop pretty well for now. On AA's case, there's the added benefit that, should it need to reduce capacity, it can rely on LATAM for flights via either SCL or GRU (just would need to setup codeshare if already not setup).

I feel United will consolidate their ops from EZE to IAH and this is not a catastrophe. By the way, United does not fly to NYC (be it JFK or EWR) from GRU and nopbody fusses about or say that Brazil willtank to oblivion.


First of all, UA DOES fly daily between EWR and GRU and has for a long time (inheriting the pre-existing CO route between the two airports) and legacy UA flew between JFK and GRU from the mid-1990s until the route was transferred to IAD in 2002. As for whether Argentines prefer JFK or EWR, I think that point is irrelevant. AA has been flying between NYC and EZE for years and the route supposedly does very well. AA has a stronger point of sale in Latin America and is the dominant US carrier there. If the economic situation in Argentina (or the US for that matter) worsens, and AA was losing money on the route, they would cut it.

Argentina is not Venezuela and Venezuela is not Argentina, that's true and comparing the two makes no sense. They both have their problems but they are not similar.


1) GRU - EWR - Sorry - my bad. You are right. Missed this one;
2) EZE - JFK x EWR - AA is not the dominant US Carrier on all LATAM markets (LATAM being the region - not the airline). Unless you can back this with hardcore data. Fact is UA removed their flight and AA has not. Differential was basically airports since the price was very similar;
3) ARG x VEN - you are right and it proves my point.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:10 am

Jomar777 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
Firstly, to some people here to say that Argentina might become Venezuela .0 is ludricous. There are and will always be significant differences between these two countries and Argentina will certainly find it easier than Venezuela to recover with whatever government they have. Venuezuela's issues are deeply more political and do not serve to be commented here on A.net.

As for United's decision, I gather than the EZE-EWR route certinaly has less appeal for Argentinians than actually flying to New York into JFK. AA serves that route non-stop pretty well for now. On AA's case, there's the added benefit that, should it need to reduce capacity, it can rely on LATAM for flights via either SCL or GRU (just would need to setup codeshare if already not setup).

I feel United will consolidate their ops from EZE to IAH and this is not a catastrophe. By the way, United does not fly to NYC (be it JFK or EWR) from GRU and nopbody fusses about or say that Brazil willtank to oblivion.


First of all, UA DOES fly daily between EWR and GRU and has for a long time (inheriting the pre-existing CO route between the two airports) and legacy UA flew between JFK and GRU from the mid-1990s until the route was transferred to IAD in 2002. As for whether Argentines prefer JFK or EWR, I think that point is irrelevant. AA has been flying between NYC and EZE for years and the route supposedly does very well. AA has a stronger point of sale in Latin America and is the dominant US carrier there. If the economic situation in Argentina (or the US for that matter) worsens, and AA was losing money on the route, they would cut it.

Argentina is not Venezuela and Venezuela is not Argentina, that's true and comparing the two makes no sense. They both have their problems but they are not similar.


1) GRU - EWR - Sorry - my bad. You are right. Missed this one;
2) EZE - JFK x EWR - AA is not the dominant US Carrier on all LATAM markets (LATAM being the region - not the airline). Unless you can back this with hardcore data. Fact is UA removed their flight and AA has not. Differential was basically airports since the price was very similar;
3) ARG x VEN - you are right and it proves my point.


AA has the largest market share among the Big 3 US Airlines in Latin America and has for a long time. I never said they were the dominant carrier on all Latin America markets, but they do have the biggest market share across Central and South America among the 3 US airlines. No, AA has not suspended JFK-EZE as of yet, but they are routinely pruning JFK operations and AA will suspend a flight if it is losing money. What AA has in Argentina that DL and UA do not is a crew base at EZE. My sense is that AA will maintain the JFK service (it did so during the last 2 economic crises in Argentina) and probably benefits from UA suspending their route and AR reducing the frequency. AA is not immune though to the Peso impacting yields and the restoration of capital controls reducing the amount of ARS that can be expatriated or converted to USD.
 
User avatar
TK787
Posts: 4172
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:46 am

Yeah, I got a message about my schedule change on my upcoming flight;
EWR-EZE-SCL(EZE-SCL on AC) became EWR-IAH-EZE-SCL. I wasn't too happy.
But when I called UA, they were super nice about it and without me asking for it, they rescheduled me to EWR-IAH-SCL
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1093
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:12 pm

leftcoast8 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Another route that UA inherited from Pan Am is gone again.


This is off topic, but I wonder if United ever inherited Karachi, which was a stop on Pan Am's RTW flight.


No Karachi went to Delta which got most Atlantic routes. UA did get HKG-DEL (which they then added DEL-LHR to - pretty sure Pan Am didn't fly the DEL-LHR leg but I could be wrong).
By the time DL bought Pan Am, Karachi had been canceled but the route authority went to DL.
 
AtomicGarden
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:51 am

jfk777 wrote:
Argentina is going into economic meltdown so it’s only natural to cut a route to EZE. United still flies there from Houston. UA May have a perception problem with Newark in Argentina since they associate JFK as New York’s international airport.


yet tourism was increasing (at least until the last elections which worsened the economic situation). I'm still surprised NYC are to Buenos Aires cannot handle 3 daily flights. is it a matter of connections with UA and EWR? or is this flight really that POS Argentina dependant? wouldn't be surprised if AA put another flight on the route.
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
incitatus
Posts: 3308
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:44 am

Referring to NYC-EZE as a United route inherited from Pan Am may be fair but it deserves qualification. Pan Am rarely flew the route nonstop and in most years for most days of the week the flight stopped in Rio - and sometimes in Sao Paulo.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4116
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:57 am

incitatus wrote:
Referring to NYC-EZE as a United route inherited from Pan Am may be fair but it deserves qualification. Pan Am rarely flew the route nonstop and in most years for most days of the week the flight stopped in Rio - and sometimes in Sao Paulo.


Actually, PA flew EZE-JFK six times a week via GIG and then once a week it was a nonstop (Friday evenings out of EZE and Saturday evening out of JFK) during the last few years of the airline. Before that, it was a Saturday evening departure out of JFK and a Sunday noon departure out of EZE. with the SP. AFAIK, GRU only appeared on PA's network in 1990-91.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4116
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: United to suspend EWR-EZE

Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:46 am

Delta is temporarily suspending one weekly frequency from its daily ATL-EZE flight between Sept 25 and Nov. 26, when daily service resumes. Equipment remains unchanged (A333). Tuesday's southbound flight and Wednesday's northbound one are being suspended. With the resumption of daily service, there will be an equipment change to the 767-400. which had been announced a few months ago. AFAIK, EZE will see the 764s with the new Delta One suites
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos