Sancho99504
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WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:08 am

USA TODAY: Southwest dropping nearly 20 nonstop routes

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/a ... 049341001/



First they axe EWR, now they're cutting other routes. Some don't seem too surprising like LAX-OMA, FLL-JAX, MCO-SJC.

DAL-OKC seems kind of a surprise since they've operated it forever it seems.

I know the Max grounding has caused some problems, but they've also been quietly retiring 73G's. Wonder if that is smart given the current situation and what they're doing to maintain frequency on other routes.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Cubsrule
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:10 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
I know the Max grounding has caused some problems, but they've also been quietly retiring 73G's. Wonder if that is smart given the current situation and what they're doing to maintain frequency on other routes.


I’m not sure they have any choice. They may have some 73Gs close to timing out. Remember that they were the launch customer and have 1997 builds in service.
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enilria
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:14 am

Cubsrule wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
I know the Max grounding has caused some problems, but they've also been quietly retiring 73G's. Wonder if that is smart given the current situation and what they're doing to maintain frequency on other routes.


I’m not sure they have any choice. They may have some 73Gs close to timing out. Remember that they were the launch customer and have 1997 builds in service.

Timing out in that they are going to UA.
 
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enilria
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:16 am

I know I should probably know this, but how many of these were already on rolling suspension from the MAX and are just being rolled forward?
 
bravotango75
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:18 am

Surprised to see AUS-SFO and DAL-SFO being cut. Not too shocked to see EWR being axed, Newark, seemed to be a bit of an odd fit.
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:24 am

I'm surprised they are retiring 737s. Are they sourcing 738s from anywhere to cover the gap, or just going without and shrinking capacity?
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727LOVER
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:38 am

The one that was damaged last year...what is it's fate? Is it back in service?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:39 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
I know the Max grounding has caused some problems, but they've also been quietly retiring 73G's. Wonder if that is smart given the current situation and what they're doing to maintain frequency on other routes.


I suspect that keeping 737-700s on past an unplanned heavy maintenance check is a big financial commitment. It probably makes more sense to cut some capacity. The new B737-700s were delivered between 17. Dec. 1997 and 8. Mar. 2012 although more than a hundred were bought second hand.
 
wmAirplane
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:41 am

WN began DAL-OKC service on April 1st, 1980 (no fooling) with 7 daily roundtrips on weekdays.


Southwest History on Southwest.com timeline.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:09 am

Los Angeles-Cancun, Mexico - was 1X weekly so this is meaningless
Los Angeles-Puerto Vallarta, Mexico - currently flying 3X weekly (down from 1X daily)
Los Angeles-Omaha, Nebraska - hasn't flown since May
Los Angeles-Pittsburgh - hasn't flown since May

Boston-Atlanta - Suspended Aug-Dec (presumably MAX)
Boston-Kansas City, Missouri - hasn't flown since May
Boston-Milwaukee - currently flying 1X

Dallas Love Field-Oklahoma City - currently flying 3X
Dallas Love Field-Jacksonville, Florida - currently flying 1X
Dallas Love Field-San Francisco - currently flying 1X

Orlando, Florida-Oakland, California - hasn't flown since may
Orlando-San Jose, California - hasn't flown since May
Orlando-Sacramento, California - hasn't flown since May
Fort Lauderdale, Florida-Jacksonville, Florida - currently flying
New York LaGuardia-Orlando, Florida - Is Saturday only, so this is meaningless

Columbus, Ohio-Oakland, California - currently flying
Austin, Texas-San Francisco - hasn't flown since May
 
EK216
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:16 am

I think DAL-SFO is the most "Hmm" to me. But in my opinion it does makes sense - I think both SJC & OAK - DAL adequately covers the Bay Area to Dallas on WN.
Last edited by EK216 on Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
marcogr12
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:17 am

Do all of these routes get covered by competitors or was WN the sole operator on some of them?
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Dalmd88
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:28 am

YYZatcboy wrote:
I'm surprised they are retiring 737s. Are they sourcing 738s from anywhere to cover the gap, or just going without and shrinking capacity?

I would imagine they don't have a choice but to retire these planes. Retirements are usually timed to occur at the next heavy check due. WN outsources all of it's heavy work to MRO providers. Trying to find slots for these planes just a few months from the due date is very hard and usually very expensive. Plus they have to weigh the costs of the checks. Do you really want to spend $1-1.5M on the check for a plane you may only need for a few months? Now lets multiply that time 10-15 planes. That is a huge out lay for a short term problem.
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:38 am

Dalmd88 wrote:
YYZatcboy wrote:
I'm surprised they are retiring 737s. Are they sourcing 738s from anywhere to cover the gap, or just going without and shrinking capacity?

I would imagine they don't have a choice but to retire these planes. Retirements are usually timed to occur at the next heavy check due. WN outsources all of it's heavy work to MRO providers. Trying to find slots for these planes just a few months from the due date is very hard and usually very expensive. Plus they have to weigh the costs of the checks. Do you really want to spend $1-1.5M on the check for a plane you may only need for a few months? Now lets multiply that time 10-15 planes. That is a huge out lay for a short term problem.


Makes sense. I remember a few years ago WN was buying as many 737s as they could get their hands on.
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EK216
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:39 am

marcogr12 wrote:
Do all of these routes get covered by competitors or was WN the sole operator on some of them?


Depends on how one defines sole operator.

For example: Dallas-Love (WN hub) to SFO competes with Dallas/Fort Worth (American hub) to SFO. They are different airports and different operators (UA & AA), but both airports in Dallas are mere miles apart in the same city.
Last edited by EK216 on Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:41 am

enilria wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
I know the Max grounding has caused some problems, but they've also been quietly retiring 73G's. Wonder if that is smart given the current situation and what they're doing to maintain frequency on other routes.


I’m not sure they have any choice. They may have some 73Gs close to timing out. Remember that they were the launch customer and have 1997 builds in service.

Timing out in that they are going to UA.


. . . Which is sort of equivalent from the standpoint of not having a choice, no? My guess is that the deal doesn’t have an out clause for something like the MAX grounding or we would have heard about it.
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MIflyer12
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:53 am

Carriers drop marginal routes for better routes all the time. Hawaii... Blame this round on MAX groundings and delayed MAX deliveries if you want but it's the way of (deregulated) life.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:56 am

marcogr12 wrote:
Do all of these routes get covered by competitors or was WN the sole operator on some of them?


That's really the kind of thing you ought to be willing to check for yourself. Flightstats.com, Flightaware.com, ITA Matrix, Orbitz and others can help you.
 
F9LASDEN
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:49 am

marcogr12 wrote:
Do all of these routes get covered by competitors or was WN the sole operator on some of them?


-LAX-CUN: DL, 4O, UA
-LAX-PVR: AS, DL, UA
-LAX-OMA: AA, DL (starting November 2019)
-LAX-PIT: NK
-BOS-ATL: DL, B6, NK
-BOS-MCI: DL
-BOS-MKE: DL
-DAL-OKC: AA (via DFW)
-DAL-JAX: AA (via DFW)
-DAL-SFO: AS (also AA and UA to DFW)
-OAK-MCO: None direct (AS and UA to SFO)
-SJC-MCO: None direct (AS and UA to SFO)
-MCO-SMF: None
-FLL-JAX: B6 (NK ending the route on 11/12/19)
-MCO-LGA: AA, DL, F9, B6, NK (starting November 19) (also B6, DL to JFK; B6, UA, and NK to EWR)
-CMH-OAK: None direct (UA to SFO)
-AUS-SFO: AS, F9, UA
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jasoncrh
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:12 am

This was all announced 2-3 weeks ago
 
Blerg
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:25 am

I see Orlando is the market to get the most cuts:

Orlando-Oakland
Orlando-San Jose
Orlando-Sacramento
Orlando-La Guardia

Anyone know why this could be? Aren't B6 and DL quite strong there?
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:47 am

Blerg wrote:
I see Orlando is the market to get the most cuts:

Orlando-Oakland
Orlando-San Jose
Orlando-Sacramento
Orlando-La Guardia

Anyone know why this could be? Aren't B6 and DL quite strong there?


MCO-LGA is only once weekly which is not competitive with multiple daily frequencies from B6 and DL.

Transcons from California to Orlando tie up a lot of resources, basically a full days flying per roundtrip, but aren't particularly high yielding. While possibly profitable, flying two flights with leisure fares almost certainly delivers less return on capital than multiple shorter flights in high yield markets. I suspect that this is a product of the aircraft shortage WN are facing, prioritising aircraft where they can make the most money.
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panam330
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:36 am

EK216 wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
Do all of these routes get covered by competitors or was WN the sole operator on some of them?


Depends on how one defines sole operator.

For example: Dallas-Love (WN hub) to SFO competes with Dallas/Fort Worth (American hub) to SFO. They are different airports and different operators (UA & AA), but both airports in Dallas are mere miles apart in the same city.


Or, you know, AS on DAL-SFO. As for "mere miles" - it's more like 15, and they can be well over an hour apart at the wrong time of day. If you live within the 635 loop on the Dallas side of the metroplex, generally speaking, the location advantage of Love cannot be emphasized enough. For me, personally, living just north of downtown - I'd rather fly out of DAL and connect than trek out to DFW for a nonstop if it's not otherwise available. DFW is so large that it is not at all convenient for short-haul domestic trips.
 
jagraham
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:47 am

Blerg wrote:
I see Orlando is the market to get the most cuts:

Orlando-Oakland
Orlando-San Jose
Orlando-Sacramento
Orlando-La Guardia

Anyone know why this could be? Aren't B6 and DL quite strong there?


These routes were suspended already. And they are some of WN's longest. Probably why they were suspended soon after the MAXs were grounded.

Even if Boeing gets the MAXes flying in the next 2-3 months, there is a ramp-up the airlines have to go through. Also, Southwest was scheduled to take a lot more MAX planes.

From https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/f ... 455445001/

SOUTHWEST AIRLINES

Max aircraft in fleet: 34 Max 8s. The airline is due to take delivery of 41 more this year, but the timing now depends on the plane's return.

-----------------------------------------

Most of those 41 planes were going to replace older 737 Next Gen planes. With close to 70 MAX planes supposed to be flying for WN now, or close to 10% of the total WN fleet, that's a big hole to fill.
 
pmanni1
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:47 am

Blerg wrote:
I see Orlando is the market to get the most cuts:

Orlando-Oakland
Orlando-San Jose
Orlando-Sacramento
Orlando-La Guardia

Anyone know why this could be? Aren't B6 and DL quite strong there?

With the exception of LGA these are long thin leisure routes that would tie up an aircraft for an entire day. Seems like people on the west coast would go to Disneyland in Anaheim rather than fly across the country.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:20 am

Blerg wrote:
I see Orlando is the market to get the most cuts:

Orlando-Oakland
Orlando-San Jose
Orlando-Sacramento
Orlando-La Guardia

Anyone know why this could be? Aren't B6 and DL quite strong there?


Didn't know WN flew MCO-OAK/SJC/SMF. These seem like markets where the MAX economics would work.

B6 and DL are heavy-hitters on MCO-Northeast, but DL also flies the West Coast trifecta of SLC/LAX/SEA.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:21 pm

Most of these look like they make financial sense. I wouldn't be surprised if they are not taken back up once the MAX is back in service. WN doesn't have to fly to every city pair, except of course to the collective opinion of a.net experts.
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smflyer
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Re: WN cutting 20 non-stop routes Jan 6

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:31 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I see Orlando is the market to get the most cuts:

Orlando-Oakland
Orlando-San Jose
Orlando-Sacramento
Orlando-La Guardia

Anyone know why this could be? Aren't B6 and DL quite strong there?


Didn't know WN flew MCO-OAK/SJC/SMF. These seem like markets where the MAX economics would work.

B6 and DL are heavy-hitters on MCO-Northeast, but DL also flies the West Coast trifecta of SLC/LAX/SEA.


Wondering if B6 will scoop up these routes

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