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aemoreira1981
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:32 pm

Another thing I notice is: F9's operation at EWR is basically done for the day at around noon or soon after. Why no later arrivals planned?
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:35 pm

Glad to see them show ATL some love with a new destination. F9 is trying, slowly, to become a relevant carrier, and the flying public is better off for it.
 
nyd686
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:43 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Another thing I notice is: F9's operation at EWR is basically done for the day at around noon or soon after. Why no later arrivals planned?


Seems like it comes down to gate availability, but the PR spin from the F9 news release is that they are avoiding EWR's "delay prone afternoon hours."

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-a ... l-airport/
 
N649DL
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:47 pm

STT757 wrote:
Wow, F9 has never served EWR and they enter in a big way. Too bad it took losing WN to bring in F9, waiting to see what B6 and NK announce.

Hopefully this doesn’t hurt their TTN operation too much, reminds me of PHL where F9 and NK have grown aggressively in the wake of WN’s reductions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Sure but F9 doesn't even fly TTN-DEN right now at the moment, correct? Seems independent of those operations.
 
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STT757
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:23 pm

N649DL wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Wow, F9 has never served EWR and they enter in a big way. Too bad it took losing WN to bring in F9, waiting to see what B6 and NK announce.

Hopefully this doesn’t hurt their TTN operation too much, reminds me of PHL where F9 and NK have grown aggressively in the wake of WN’s reductions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Sure but F9 doesn't even fly TTN-DEN right now at the moment, correct? Seems independent of those operations.


DEN has been mentioned a lot for F9 from TTN, however TTN’s short runway (6,000) make it challenging.

Some routes will compete but then again they seem to be cognizant and looking for distinctive routes. For example:

F9 flies TTN-FLL
F9 is launching EWR-MIA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:01 pm

TW787 wrote:
Wow, this is dumb. It's one thing to grow in EWR, it's a whole other thing to hit every legacy carrier's hubs with it. Cue the competitive responses...


Because competition is bad?
 
B747forever
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Here ya go,

EWR - LAS 6:00-8:24
LAS - EWR 23:57-5:59 +1

EWR - MCO 7:25-10:23
EWR - MCO x2 13:29-16:27
MCO - EWR 7:50-10:38
MCO - EWR x2 19:35-22:23

EWR - MIA 6:05-9:28
EWR - MIA x2 12:30-15:53
MIA - EWR 8:29-11:44
MIA - EWR x2 17:50-21:05

EWR - SJU 12:30-17:27
SJU - EWR 8:14-11:30

EWR - PBI 6:00-9:02
PBI - EWR 9:47-12:44

EWR - PHX 13:29-17:26
PHX - EWR 23:30-6:30 +1

EWR - ATL 11:30-14:14
ATL - EWR 10:07-12:44


What is the schedule for EWR-ONT?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:14 pm

Looks like F9 would need to lease at least three gates to run this kind of schedule at EWR.
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:18 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Another thing I notice is: F9's operation at EWR is basically done for the day at around noon or soon after. Why no later arrivals planned?


Future additional routes not announced or loaded into the system yet.
 
many321
Posts: 295
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:27 pm

B747forever wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Here ya go,

EWR - LAS 6:00-8:24
LAS - EWR 23:57-5:59 +1

EWR - MCO 7:25-10:23
EWR - MCO x2 13:29-16:27
MCO - EWR 7:50-10:38
MCO - EWR x2 19:35-22:23

EWR - MIA 6:05-9:28
EWR - MIA x2 12:30-15:53
MIA - EWR 8:29-11:44
MIA - EWR x2 17:50-21:05

EWR - SJU 12:30-17:27
SJU - EWR 8:14-11:30

EWR - PBI 6:00-9:02
PBI - EWR 9:47-12:44

EWR - PHX 13:29-17:26
PHX - EWR 23:30-6:30 +1

EWR - ATL 11:30-14:14
ATL - EWR 10:07-12:44


What is the schedule for EWR-ONT?


That will be interesting to know.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:30 am

many321 wrote:
B747forever wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Here ya go,

EWR - LAS 6:00-8:24
LAS - EWR 23:57-5:59 +1

EWR - MCO 7:25-10:23
EWR - MCO x2 13:29-16:27
MCO - EWR 7:50-10:38
MCO - EWR x2 19:35-22:23

EWR - MIA 6:05-9:28
EWR - MIA x2 12:30-15:53
MIA - EWR 8:29-11:44
MIA - EWR x2 17:50-21:05

EWR - SJU 12:30-17:27
SJU - EWR 8:14-11:30

EWR - PBI 6:00-9:02
PBI - EWR 9:47-12:44

EWR - PHX 13:29-17:26
PHX - EWR 23:30-6:30 +1

EWR - ATL 11:30-14:14
ATL - EWR 10:07-12:44


What is the schedule for EWR-ONT?


That will be interesting to know.


Schedule not yet out for that flight. But going with current trend assume a departure from EWR between 6:00-14:00. Then expect a redeye home landing no later than 8:00.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:45 am

ILNFlyer wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
Frontiers operational reliability and customer service is already lacking... my thoughts go out to anyone flying F9 in/out of EWR. The ATC delays alone are going to cause quite the problems for them I think.


I've never seen such spectacular meltdowns like F9 meltdowns. I'm talking lines of passengers running the ENTIRE length of a airport to their ticket counters after they drop a huge live cancellation package down on them. Its actually kind of entertaining to watch and I just think, well thats what happens when you want a 20 dollar ticket.


I have flown them multiple times from CVG to MCO and never experienced an issue like you describe.


You've missed quite the spectacle then. They are my go to entertainment at the airport during weather. I could start my own airport public freakout youtube empire on what ive seen, often.
 
mfricke
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:59 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
Has anyone (presumably UA or CO) flown ONT-EWR before?


This is the first ever EWR-ONT flight.


I do remember that Continental flew Ontario-Newark nonstop for one summer, before 2001. I believe it was in the later part of the 1990's, and it even could have been the summer of 2000 or 2001. I tried researching and finding evidence of it (annual reports, departedflights.com, and more), but couldn't find any hard evidence. I do have somewhere in my timetable collection, though, a flyer with an apple (Big Apple), and an Orange (Ontario is in the citrus belt of SoCal, or what's left of it), promoting the flight. I believe it only lasted on summer, and it was flown with a next-generation 737.
ONT - Southern California's Ontario!
 
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September11
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:13 am

Very interesting announcement by Frontier Airlines
Airliners.net of the Future
 
marcogr12
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:42 am

TW787 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Demand NYC-CHI/DEN/LAS/PHX/DFW/MCO/MIA/TPA is large and should be very elastic. They can leave the nowhere-to-nowhere stuff (oh, like CVG-JAX) to others - and have to, if they want to fill 320/321s.


Yes, but because there is a hub carrier on one or both ends of each of the routes, the stimulated passengers are much more likely to utilize the hub carrier since they are likely aligned with their loyalty program. Not to mention we are likely to see additional capacity coming from the hub carriers that will make it more difficult for F9, as the network carriers can live off of connections.


Yes but on the other hand not all pax can afford UA's expensive tickets or are after frequency or are biz-class passengers, neither can they afford to book months ahead to get good deals with UA. And since this is New York we are talking about, that is both a biz and tourist destination, i don't think it will be too difficult to fill mid-sized plane to/from EWR with pax on a more restricted budget..
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
Jerseyguy
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:59 am

STT757 wrote:
Wow, F9 has never served EWR and they enter in a big way. Too bad it took losing WN to bring in F9, waiting to see what B6 and NK announce.

Hopefully this doesn’t hurt their TTN operation too much, reminds me of PHL where F9 and NK have grown aggressively in the wake of WN’s reductions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

When WN announced they were leaving EWR, I hoped that F9 wasn't going to come in, just for as you said their TTN operation. Even with F9 flying to PHL, TTN was ok perhaps in part due to the fact it had the Southern EWR catchment. I hope your right and it doesn't effect TTN. We'll have to see what remains at EWR in like 6 months when the smoke clears. Also I would love another airline to come into TTN before the new terminal who that be is the question. Not sure if anyone would bite but I know as of now, it would be hard for anyone to get any decent amount of flights in unless F9 dropped flights. F9 has a lease although its a cheap one till 2022-2023.
Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
 
lat41
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:00 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
Frontiers operational reliability and customer service is already lacking... my thoughts go out to anyone flying F9 in/out of EWR. The ATC delays alone are going to cause quite the problems for them I think.

And how! Pack your sense of humor in your carry on!
 
727LOVER
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:11 pm

Jerseyguy wrote:
When WN announced they were leaving EWR, I hoped that F9 wasn't going to come in, just for as you said their TTN operation. Even with F9 flying to PHL, TTN was ok perhaps in part due to the fact it had the Southern EWR catchment. I hope your right and it doesn't effect TTN. We'll have to see what remains at EWR in like 6 months when the smoke clears. Also I would love another airline to come into TTN before the new terminal who that be is the question. Not sure if anyone would bite but I know as of now, it would be hard for anyone to get any decent amount of flights in unless F9 dropped flights. F9 has a lease although its a cheap one till 2022-2023.


What happened to Allegiant?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:58 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Here ya go,

EWR - LAS 6:00-8:24
LAS - EWR 23:57-5:59 +1

EWR - MCO 7:25-10:23
EWR - MCO x2 13:29-16:27
MCO - EWR 7:50-10:38
MCO - EWR x2 19:35-22:23

EWR - MIA 6:05-9:28
EWR - MIA x2 12:30-15:53
MIA - EWR 8:29-11:44
MIA - EWR x2 17:50-21:05

EWR - SJU 12:30-17:27
SJU - EWR 8:14-11:30

EWR - PBI 6:00-9:02
PBI - EWR 9:47-12:44

EWR - PHX 13:29-17:26
PHX - EWR 23:30-6:30 +1

EWR - ATL 11:30-14:14
ATL - EWR 10:07-12:44


Smart....
No EWR Departures after 2PM, which is about the time most EWR issues start.
Someone in planning has been paying attention.
 
Blerg
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:42 pm

What happens in EWR after 2 and what causes these delays?
 
Jerseyguy
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:41 pm

727LOVER wrote:
What happened to Allegiant?

A couple of things
1. They only flew routes that Frontier already flew without offering a different product. Frontier flew to TPA, MCO, RSW. They probably should have flown CHS, MYR, and MCO
2. Frontier moved some their RSW flights to PDG (including TTN), likely for 2 reasons. First as retaliation for G4 coming to TTN and also probably to get concessions from RSW. Rumor has it G4 and F9 came to a "gentlemen's agreement" if G4 would move out of Trenton, F9 would move back to RSW. Frontier announced their withdrawal from PDG and Allegiant announced their withdrawal from TTN a couple of days later.
3. Very little advertising of TTN. At the end I saw a few billboards in the area. One on I-295 (I-95 at the time) and one on US1 near the I-295 interchange.

https://www.nj.com/mercer/2018/05/alleg ... enton.html
Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:54 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:

Smart....
No EWR Departures after 2PM, which is about the time most EWR issues start.
Someone in planning has been paying attention.



OR my guess is they negotiated a good deal to use vacant international gates in the morning like they did at Terminal E in BOS.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
aviationjunky
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:37 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
EWR - LAS 6:00-8:24
LAS - EWR 23:57-5:59 +1


A 1 minute turn around.. Southwest is shaking!
LAS is Life
 
caljn
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:47 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
EWR - LAS 6:00-8:24
LAS - EWR 23:57-5:59 +1


A 1 minute turn around.. Southwest is shaking!


Southwest is rather remarkable in that regard...they pull up, unload, re-load and go. And when arriving at LAX they always seem to have the gate available, unlike UA where on arrival you do the extended taxi then the "good news, bad news" announcement. Ugh.
(btw UA flight crew, in my view we have NOT arrived until the door opens.)
 
11C
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:07 pm

HIA350 wrote:
looks like spirit and b6 got caught sleeping

At least where B6 is concerned, delayed 321 deliveries, and the focus on BOS probably killed any chance that they could quickly respond in EWR.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 345
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:48 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Here ya go,

EWR - LAS 6:00-8:24
LAS - EWR 23:57-5:59 +1

EWR - MCO 7:25-10:23
EWR - MCO x2 13:29-16:27
MCO - EWR 7:50-10:38
MCO - EWR x2 19:35-22:23

EWR - MIA 6:05-9:28
EWR - MIA x2 12:30-15:53
MIA - EWR 8:29-11:44
MIA - EWR x2 17:50-21:05

EWR - SJU 12:30-17:27
SJU - EWR 8:14-11:30

EWR - PBI 6:00-9:02
PBI - EWR 9:47-12:44

EWR - PHX 13:29-17:26
PHX - EWR 23:30-6:30 +1

EWR - ATL 11:30-14:14
ATL - EWR 10:07-12:44


Smart....
No EWR Departures after 2PM, which is about the time most EWR issues start.
Someone in planning has been paying attention.


So we're just going to ignore the post-1400h arrivals...*that still need staff*...that's not smart. Someone(s) in NP just saw WN leaving and thought to jump right in. Bonne chance!
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 7883
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:29 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Here ya go,

EWR - LAS 6:00-8:24
LAS - EWR 23:57-5:59 +1

EWR - MCO 7:25-10:23
EWR - MCO x2 13:29-16:27
MCO - EWR 7:50-10:38
MCO - EWR x2 19:35-22:23

EWR - MIA 6:05-9:28
EWR - MIA x2 12:30-15:53
MIA - EWR 8:29-11:44
MIA - EWR x2 17:50-21:05

EWR - SJU 12:30-17:27
SJU - EWR 8:14-11:30

EWR - PBI 6:00-9:02
PBI - EWR 9:47-12:44

EWR - PHX 13:29-17:26
PHX - EWR 23:30-6:30 +1

EWR - ATL 11:30-14:14
ATL - EWR 10:07-12:44


Smart....
No EWR Departures after 2PM, which is about the time most EWR issues start.
Someone in planning has been paying attention.


So we're just going to ignore the post-1400h arrivals...*that still need staff*...that's not smart. Someone(s) in NP just saw WN leaving and thought to jump right in. Bonne chance!


The post-1400 arrivals are actually post-2100, thus entirely avoiding the peak Trans-Atlantic period. As others have already said, they are surely using the international gates at Terminal B which are CUTE and have very low utilisation outside of these hours. This is smart as it meant they could announce service very quickly without having to work out gate access.

Theoretically they could make a play for Southwest's gates once WN leave, although that isn't really Frontier's style as it would involve spending money and committing to the market longer term.

Actually, on that do Southwest's gates revert to United? Southwest use PMUA gates that had to be divested as part of the merger approval.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
vetjetatl
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:36 pm

I wish them the best. I've flown Frontier a few times. Yes, I am a little scared of service disruptions, but so far, so good. I know I get what I pay for, so I'm appropriately prepared when I fly them (Bring my own entertainment and food if warranted). FA's have been super friendly every time. Their strategy seems a little nuts at times, but its sure fun to watch.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 345
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:19 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:

Smart....
No EWR Departures after 2PM, which is about the time most EWR issues start.
Someone in planning has been paying attention.


So we're just going to ignore the post-1400h arrivals...*that still need staff*...that's not smart. Someone(s) in NP just saw WN leaving and thought to jump right in. Bonne chance!


The post-1400 arrivals are actually post-2100, thus entirely avoiding the peak Trans-Atlantic period. As others have already said, they are surely using the international gates at Terminal B which are CUTE and have very low utilisation outside of these hours. This is smart as it meant they could announce service very quickly without having to work out gate access.

Theoretically they could make a play for Southwest's gates once WN leave, although that isn't really Frontier's style as it would involve spending money and committing to the market longer term.

Actually, on that do Southwest's gates revert to United? Southwest use PMUA gates that had to be divested as part of the merger approval.


What you say is true, yes, but staff is still needed for the arrival, both above and below wing. Whether it's contract employees or direct hires, again, *you still need staff*...whatever time they work is irrelevant unless we're talking about shift differential pay. I personally know a couple folks who work in NP at Frontier and I sincerely hope that they didn't mistakenly view WN's departure as a point to refill. Someone else posted here that one flight a day is negligible on the effect with established carriers out of EWR. Again I say, 'bonne chance'!
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:35 am

drdisque wrote:
F9 will have to use some creative scheduling for CUN and PUJ to find times when there are FIS gates available.


F9 is all about creative timing. These are the people that have 2 am LAX-DEN flights.
Delta Gold Medallion and Southwest A-List
 
alasizon
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:08 am

Judge1310 wrote:

What you say is true, yes, but staff is still needed for the arrival, both above and below wing. Whether it's contract employees or direct hires, again, *you still need staff*...whatever time they work is irrelevant unless we're talking about shift differential pay. I personally know a couple folks who work in NP at Frontier and I sincerely hope that they didn't mistakenly view WN's departure as a point to refill. Someone else posted here that one flight a day is negligible on the effect with established carriers out of EWR. Again I say, 'bonne chance'!


Nobody is saying they don't need staff. Likewise if they do outsource to Swissport or Menzies or any other 3rd party, those staff likely would have been available for part of that PM work anyhow if they worked one of the TATL flights so that helps spread the cost around for those companies and reduces the number of additional staff that need to be hired.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4383
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:37 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Another thing I notice is: F9's operation at EWR is basically done for the day at around noon or soon after. Why no later arrivals planned?



Maybe to avoid the painful delays Newark sees in the Afternoons?? Yeah mornings are crowded but things don't stack up the same with delays that EWR sees later in the day. They maybe saw this as their way to make EWR successful and saw WN have too many delays to make money?? I kind of see their logic in this, not sure if it will work, but it might. NYC is such a huge market and no ULCC has really gotten good marketshare. Crazy enough to work maybe
 
Chemist
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:51 am

Happy for Newark, good luck with that. I'm fine with sticking with WN here in CA.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:25 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
drdisque wrote:
F9 will have to use some creative scheduling for CUN and PUJ to find times when there are FIS gates available.


F9 is all about creative timing. These are the people that have 2 am LAX-DEN flights.

Nothing creative about it, they just don't care about the times.
 
TW787
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:09 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
Because competition is bad?


For airline profits, yes. For consumers, no. I'm saying it is a dumb move for F9's profits.
 
TW787
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:50 pm

Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:13 pm

marcogr12 wrote:

Yes but on the other hand not all pax can afford UA's expensive tickets or are after frequency or are biz-class passengers, neither can they afford to book months ahead to get good deals with UA. And since this is New York we are talking about, that is both a biz and tourist destination, i don't think it will be too difficult to fill mid-sized plane to/from EWR with pax on a more restricted budget..


Guess you've never heard of price matching. WN, largest and best known domestic carrier couldn't make it work with their massive connecting complexes, and they tried several different network designs. But F9, with no network and no connectivity and a far lesser known brand is going to? Ok. We'll see.
 
hohd
Posts: 768
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:21 pm

TW787 wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:

Yes but on the other hand not all pax can afford UA's expensive tickets or are after frequency or are biz-class passengers, neither can they afford to book months ahead to get good deals with UA. And since this is New York we are talking about, that is both a biz and tourist destination, i don't think it will be too difficult to fill mid-sized plane to/from EWR with pax on a more restricted budget..


Guess you've never heard of price matching. WN, largest and best known domestic carrier couldn't make it work with their massive connecting complexes, and they tried several different network designs. But F9, with no network and no connectivity and a far lesser known brand is going to? Ok. We'll see.


WN is not a low cost carrier, and Southwest's fares are often higher than UA's, but F9 is a very low cost carrier. UA can price match selectively on the morning flights, but it would lose business for flights later in the day.
 
tphuang
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:30 pm

I fully expect F9 to cut at least half of these routes a year from now. UA will massively price match with BE on all of these routes. If UA could make NK reduce frequencies to FLL/MCO and push WN out, F9 with it's complete lack of name recognition and hit&run strategies, will be gone very soon. Especially on rotues where it faces NK competition. EWR with its very cost is not great for an airline that struggles to get an kind of yield.
 
Pontius
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:44 pm

TW787 wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:

Yes but on the other hand not all pax can afford UA's expensive tickets or are after frequency or are biz-class passengers, neither can they afford to book months ahead to get good deals with UA. And since this is New York we are talking about, that is both a biz and tourist destination, i don't think it will be too difficult to fill mid-sized plane to/from EWR with pax on a more restricted budget..


Guess you've never heard of price matching. WN, largest and best known domestic carrier couldn't make it work with their massive connecting complexes, and they tried several different network designs. But F9, with no network and no connectivity and a far lesser known brand is going to? Ok. We'll see.


F9 has grown from 50 to 100 aircraft under the Indigo strategy and maintained industry-leading profit margins in the process. All with "no network and no connectivity and a..lesser known brand." The gist of your post has been echoed year after year, in city after city, but the model is working. Past performance is at least a suggestion of future results. Expect a few routes to be dropped, it's recon-by-fire. Expect EWR to remain, right alongside LGA, ISP, TTN, and PHL.
 
TW787
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:15 pm

tphuang wrote:
I fully expect F9 to cut at least half of these routes a year from now. UA will massively price match with BE on all of these routes. If UA could make NK reduce frequencies to FLL/MCO and push WN out, F9 with it's complete lack of name recognition and hit&run strategies, will be gone very soon. Especially on rotues where it faces NK competition. EWR with its very cost is not great for an airline that struggles to get an kind of yield.


Thanks for providing some sanity to this thread.
 
malev2012
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:02 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Current WN routes before the cut:
Austin, Baltimore, Chicago–Midway, Denver, Nashville, Oakland, Orlando, Phoenix–Sky Harbor, St. Louis
Seasonal: San Diego


Interesting to see what route F9 didn't add back. Guessing BNA/AUS were big money losers for them not to add those two cities.
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ScorpioMC3
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:47 am

Blerg wrote:
What happens in EWR after 2 and what causes these delays?


That's about the time a pigeon in Manhattan sneezes in the direction of the airport. This completely alters all wind patterns and causes ATC to lose their minds, thereby turning the airport around and causing massive flow control programs.
 
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varsity
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:25 am

TW787 wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:

Yes but on the other hand not all pax can afford UA's expensive tickets or are after frequency or are biz-class passengers, neither can they afford to book months ahead to get good deals with UA. And since this is New York we are talking about, that is both a biz and tourist destination, i don't think it will be too difficult to fill mid-sized plane to/from EWR with pax on a more restricted budget..


Guess you've never heard of price matching. WN, largest and best known domestic carrier couldn't make it work with their massive connecting complexes, and they tried several different network designs. But F9, with no network and no connectivity and a far lesser known brand is going to? Ok. We'll see.


This was my reaction. If WN wasn't able to figure out a winning strategy at EWR what makes F9 think they can? I really wish B6 could have seized on this opportunity to beef up their presence a little, maybe with--God forbid--a transcon?
AB3, DC8, DC9, DH7, D10, E90, M80, M88, 320, 321, 330, 722, 737, 733, 734, 738, 747, 744, 757, 752, 753, 772
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:31 am

varsity wrote:
TW787 wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:

Yes but on the other hand not all pax can afford UA's expensive tickets or are after frequency or are biz-class passengers, neither can they afford to book months ahead to get good deals with UA. And since this is New York we are talking about, that is both a biz and tourist destination, i don't think it will be too difficult to fill mid-sized plane to/from EWR with pax on a more restricted budget..


Guess you've never heard of price matching. WN, largest and best known domestic carrier couldn't make it work with their massive connecting complexes, and they tried several different network designs. But F9, with no network and no connectivity and a far lesser known brand is going to? Ok. We'll see.


This was my reaction. If WN wasn't able to figure out a winning strategy at EWR what makes F9 think they can? I really wish B6 could have seized on this opportunity to beef up their presence a little, maybe with--God forbid--a transcon?


Your post is slightly illogical. Southwest's business model is much more similar to JetBlue than Frontier. Like Southwest, JetBlue have grown to a quasi-network carrier and will face many of the same structural challenges as Southwest (although Mint to EWR could, admittedly, be a winner). Frontier however is going after a very different market, passengers who potentially would not fly otherwise. There is always scope to stimulate the bottom of the market, and if they can't make it work at EWR then it is much easier for Frontier to get up and leave virtually overnight. Expansion is therefore much lower risk for Frontier.
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varsity
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:10 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
varsity wrote:
TW787 wrote:

Guess you've never heard of price matching. WN, largest and best known domestic carrier couldn't make it work with their massive connecting complexes, and they tried several different network designs. But F9, with no network and no connectivity and a far lesser known brand is going to? Ok. We'll see.


This was my reaction. If WN wasn't able to figure out a winning strategy at EWR what makes F9 think they can? I really wish B6 could have seized on this opportunity to beef up their presence a little, maybe with--God forbid--a transcon?


Your post is slightly illogical.


Maybe slightly, I am not in this business. But they're flying roughly the same size plane to some of the same city pairs and (I'm assuming) going to be charging less money. Southwest seems to have a more solid track record of developing/maturing markets, so for them to walk away from a NYC airport seems like a sign that it will not be that easy for someone else to do better.

RyanairGuru wrote:
Like Southwest, JetBlue have grown to a quasi-network carrier and will face many of the same structural challenges as Southwest (although Mint to EWR could, admittedly, be a winner).


Yes but their planes at least to Florida are consistently full, and they already have a crew base here and the flexibility of serving five airports around NYC.

RyanairGuru wrote:
if they can't make it work at EWR then it is much easier for Frontier to get up and leave virtually overnight.


... as we've seen them do in numerous markets before. I would not be happy to see UA squeeze them out as was done to a number of niche players at EWR over the years, but I can't say I'd be surprised.
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marcogr12
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Re: Frontier F9 Announces 15 destinations from EWR

Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:51 pm

If EWR is so risky because of UA why didnt Frontier choose LGA like Southwest ultimately did,but before them? Is the LGA market less premium-heavy thus more fertile ground for cheapo fares and ads,Ryanair style, although WN hardly fits that bill
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