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KOMAtose
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:17 pm

Was there ever a possibility of the new MidEx being able to partner up with Air Wisconsin or are they in an exclusive deal with United?
 
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MKE22
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:10 am

KOMAtose wrote:
Was there ever a possibility of the new MidEx being able to partner up with Air Wisconsin or are they in an exclusive deal with United?


I would make an educated guess of no.

Since ZW has exclusivity/joint agreements with UA, such as their joint program where ZW pilots are offered a chance to move up to UA pilot jobs once they meet certain criteria, as well as ZW ground handling done entirely by UA's "United Ground Express", this would make the logistics of said partnership tricky.
 
KOMAtose
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:50 pm

MKE22 wrote:

I would make an educated guess of no.

Since ZW has exclusivity/joint agreements with UA, such as their joint program where ZW pilots are offered a chance to move up to UA pilot jobs once they meet certain criteria, as well as ZW ground handling done entirely by UA's "United Ground Express", this would make the logistics of said partnership tricky.


Ah, that's about what I figured. Still, would've been rather apropos for Air Whiskey to team up with the Milwaukee liner... those meddling logistics! I wonder, does Republic still hold the rights to the Chautauqua name?
 
atrude777
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:14 pm

MKE22 wrote:
, as well as ZW ground handling done entirely by UA's "United Ground Express", this would make the logistics of said partnership tricky.


Just a slight correction unless I am misunderstanding your post...

Air Wisconsin Flights are not entirely ground handled by UGE-United Ground Express, if you're reffering to the company UGE and not just saying United Express.

STL and DEN among many other stations are ground handled by UA Above Wing, and DGS, G2 and Simplicity USA that also will work Air Wisconsin Flights.

However yes, the flying for ZW is entirely for United.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
Blerg
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:35 am

We are almost half-way through December, are there any updates on the launch of ticket sales?
 
n7371f
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:31 am

Ponzi scheme?

Blerg wrote:
We are almost half-way through December, are there any updates on the launch of ticket sales?
 
commpilot
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:05 pm

n7371f wrote:
Ponzi scheme?

Blerg wrote:
We are almost half-way through December, are there any updates on the launch of ticket sales?



That's what I said and people here can't stand it. When someone starts a company and gives little to no info expect big promises about economic investment along with verifiable false claims, it gets you wondering. The route structure and airplane is a total joke that can't be profitable as a normal 121 airline.
 
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knope2001
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:45 pm

Blerg wrote:
We are almost half-way through December, are there any updates on the launch of ticket sales?


Umm...you posted on December 6th which is almost 1/5th of the way through December, not almost 1/2 the way. They said they hoped to have tickets on sale before Christmas but (a) that's still more than two weeks away and (b) if they miss a "hope for" date to start sales I don't think that means doom.


commpilot wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Ponzi scheme?

Blerg wrote:
We are almost half-way through December, are there any updates on the launch of ticket sales?



That's what I said and people here can't stand it. When someone starts a company and gives little to no info expect big promises about economic investment along with verifiable false claims, it gets you wondering. The route structure and airplane is a total joke that can't be profitable as a normal 121 airline.


I've asked before what information is out there to suggest this is a Ponzi scheme and I'm still waiting. I will split apart that statement:

1. Gives little to no information
To whom? They owe a.net zero information. They own investors a reasonable amount of information but I'm not aware of any reason to believe investors are not being seriously kept in the dark or lied to. What information should they be giving which they have not up to this point?

2. Expect big promises about economic investment
What do you mean by that?

3. Along with verifiable false claims
The only thing I've heard which may be a "false claim" is the talk of extra legroom. I'd be curious to know how they square that, but we don't know what their product will be yet -- the CRJ they flew in for the press release was a standard 50-seat CRJ but based on the logo being removed from that particular bird it may well not be what they now plan to use for service. They may be planning on CR7 now with 50 seats for all we know.

Saying you hope to start service before the end of the year and then pushing that out is not a false claim, it's a routine change of plans which happens in business all the time. Now it's absolutely valid to complain if they habitually announce things and then end up changing or canceling. But that's not fraud nor a Ponzi scheme. Occasional changes of plans and missed dates are routine, ongoing habitual ones are signs of lack of care in communications and marketing, and sometimes deeper issues. It's a judgment call on then "routine" veers into "habitual" but from my perspective so far it's nowhere near problematic. As a point of comparison the original Midwest Express business plan was to fly from Appleton to O Hare with their Convair 580 and DC-9 flights Appleton-Chicago-Atlanta Fulton County, but when they started it ended up being Milwaukee to Boston/Dallas/Appleton. Plans change.

As for their routes, aircraft and business plan not only have I explained more than once why i think they have a shot, I would argue that it may be their *only* reasonable shot. The luxury service model hasn't been successful pretty much anywhere, and to run middle-of-the-road conventional service in MKE up against the big boys is not likely to succeed either. High fare nonstops tightly targeting business travel in unserved markets is the best niche.
 
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knope2001
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:37 pm

knope2001 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
1. Gives little to no information
To whom? They owe a.net zero information. They own investors a reasonable amount of information but I'm not aware of any reason to believe investors are not being seriously kept in the dark or lied to.


Of course that's a typo -- last-second editing screwed up that sentence. No reason to believe investors are being seriously kept in the dark or lied to.

There are plenty of legitimate concerns that could tank this, certainly . If Elite doesn't run a good operation it will kill demand. If they are undercapitalized for the project and overspend on simultaneously trying to launch a "virtual" airline and build an actual air carrier they could blow it. If Delta gets antsy about them and sends a couple of RJ's to Milwaukee to squash this they probably could. If fuel spikes to 130 their margin goes out the window. If the MKE business travel market has been irreparably stunted by 7 years of lost short-haul nonstops and too many people stay with their cars and their conference calls this could tank quickly. But there are reasons to believe these obstacles either won't happen or can be worked through. And like any venture there's risk. But if the demand is still there and they don't fumble the ball operationally / financially there's a good chance nobody cares enough about this to fight them for it.
 
jplatts
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:08 am

knope2001 wrote:
There are plenty of legitimate concerns that could tank this, certainly . If Elite doesn't run a good operation it will kill demand. If they are undercapitalized for the project and overspend on simultaneously trying to launch a "virtual" airline and build an actual air carrier they could blow it. If Delta gets antsy about them and sends a couple of RJ's to Milwaukee to squash this they probably could. If fuel spikes to 130 their margin goes out the window. If the MKE business travel market has been irreparably stunted by 7 years of lost short-haul nonstops and too many people stay with their cars and their conference calls this could tank quickly. But there are reasons to believe these obstacles either won't happen or can be worked through. And like any venture there's risk. But if the demand is still there and they don't fumble the ball operationally / financially there's a good chance nobody cares enough about this to fight them for it.


Even though DL already serves most of its hubs and focus cities nonstop from MKE, DL could add nonstop service to LAX, JFK, and RDU out of MKE. MKE-LAX/JFK/RDU also would not be in competition with the initial routes of the new Midwest Express.

Two of the three already announced nonstop routes of the new Midwest Express are to destinations where AA, DL, UA, or WN doesn't have a hub or focus city.

While DL still has a focus city at CVG and while the new Midwest Express has already announced plans to serve CVG nonstop from MKE, there are some destinations such as CHS, MDW, VPS, JAX, MIA, MYR, MSY, ORF, SFB, AZA, PGD, PVD, SRQ, SAN, SAV, PIE, IAD, and PBI that have nonstop service out of CVG on airlines other than DL on at least a seasonal basis but not on DL.

I am unsure if DL would re-add CVG-MKE nonstop service in response to the new Midwest Express having plans to serve MKE nonstop from CVG with AA, UA, WN, G4, and F9 all each having nonstop service out of CVG to at least one airport that DL doesn't serve nonstop from CVG.

In addition to DL adding more nonstop routes out of MKE, AA could also add nonstop service to its LAX, MIA, LGA, and DCA hubs out of MKE.
 
KOMAtose
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:24 pm

Well, we're getting close to the date when MidEx said they planned to have their ticketing/reservation system open up. Over/Under on this thing actually taking off?
 
UWPAviation
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:16 pm

KOMAtose wrote:
Well, we're getting close to the date when MidEx said they planned to have their ticketing/reservation system open up. Over/Under on this thing actually taking off?


The fact that Christmas is four days away and we have not heard anything from them in a long time is not a good sign.
 
rj777
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:39 pm

UWPAviation wrote:
KOMAtose wrote:
Well, we're getting close to the date when MidEx said they planned to have their ticketing/reservation system open up. Over/Under on this thing actually taking off?


The fact that Christmas is four days away and we have not heard anything from them in a long time is not a good sign.


https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2019/12/20/midwest-express-return-delayed-until-end-of.html?ana=e_mil_bn_breakingnews&j=90374531&t=Breaking%20News&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTVRBeFlUTXdZVGMyTnpnMCIsInQiOiJiSGhZa09uTkxpc3FcL3ZuTlRrSnk5Vzh5SWVUbjI5T0dDSDduaThsNTc2S1hNWU56WU93QXNDNEhVcjd5cHRGSEw4V3Q4SXpqXC9pRmlkUUZMUzJyT0RWZlhXNTVvc1plcEwyTjlHd1RQRlNNXC83Y1ZkVWtkdTVlYTBySmx1UFZrQiJ9

I wouldn't call this a bad sign.... my guess is they want to make sure they do this right.
 
DDR
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:56 pm

If this airline starts service and is actually profitable, and I mean IF, then would it be possible that other cities may get a "hometown" airline similar to this? I mean if MKE can support its own small airline, what about other cities?
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:26 pm

Sorry but United Express’ 50 seat CRJ 70s

are far more in character than Midwest Express run if the mill CRJ-200s ever will be. Perhaps the new Midwest Express should try pairing up to be a UA partner.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
n7371f
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:41 am

This announcement sadly, and especially the absurd comments from Greg that they can't set schedules because of the holidays, only affirms more my opinion that this launch is up there with so many over the past decade of failed brands: Western, People, Eastern. Greg is a good man though so I don't expect him to end up going to prison like the PE founders.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:36 am

rj777 wrote:
UWPAviation wrote:
KOMAtose wrote:
Well, we're getting close to the date when MidEx said they planned to have their ticketing/reservation system open up. Over/Under on this thing actually taking off?


The fact that Christmas is four days away and we have not heard anything from them in a long time is not a good sign.


https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2019/12/20/midwest-express-return-delayed-until-end-of.html?ana=e_mil_bn_breakingnews&j=90374531&t=Breaking%20News&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTVRBeFlUTXdZVGMyTnpnMCIsInQiOiJiSGhZa09uTkxpc3FcL3ZuTlRrSnk5Vzh5SWVUbjI5T0dDSDduaThsNTc2S1hNWU56WU93QXNDNEhVcjd5cHRGSEw4V3Q4SXpqXC9pRmlkUUZMUzJyT0RWZlhXNTVvc1plcEwyTjlHd1RQRlNNXC83Y1ZkVWtkdTVlYTBySmx1UFZrQiJ9

I wouldn't call this a bad sign.... my guess is they want to make sure they do this right.


It could be that Elite decided to ditch MidEx. Parts of the new livery are gone from the plane originally painted in the Midwest livery... if this is the case, maybe Ultimate or Contour will take over.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:29 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
It could be that Elite decided to ditch MidEx. Parts of the new livery are gone from the plane originally painted in the Midwest livery... if this is the case, maybe Ultimate or Contour will take over.

Has anyone considered the idea that maybe a different batch of CRJs are destined to fly for Midwest Express instead of the particular aircraft that was at the ceremony? Or maybe the livery/logo was temporarily removed since that aircraft isn't doing Midwest Express flights for the time being anyway.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:22 pm

mke717spotter wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
It could be that Elite decided to ditch MidEx. Parts of the new livery are gone from the plane originally painted in the Midwest livery... if this is the case, maybe Ultimate or Contour will take over.

Has anyone considered the idea that maybe a different batch of CRJs are destined to fly for Midwest Express instead of the particular aircraft that was at the ceremony? Or maybe the livery/logo was temporarily removed since that aircraft isn't doing Midwest Express flights for the time being anyway.


Just offering a possible explanation... there are many possible others - though I believe this one to be plausible.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
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spinkid
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:01 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
rj777 wrote:


It could be that Elite decided to ditch MidEx. Parts of the new livery are gone from the plane originally painted in the Midwest livery... if this is the case, maybe Ultimate or Contour will take over.



That's def not a good sign, however. I can see why they would delay. Launching in Mid December they would have needed to have their ticket sales up and running, you might as well wait until after the new year now.

Lots of people are on vacation in December, or partly at least, so whoever has to do the work.....tech, or otherwise likely won't complete it until the new year.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:24 pm

approaching February 2020... Midwest Express appears to be nothing but a bong hit pipe dream ... they have raised zero new dollars since last SEC filing, no ability to book a seat ... nothing

https://flymidwestexpress.com/
 
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usxguy
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:00 am

or its taking longer than they expected to get all the needed capital (or liquid capital). Lets not forget what happens when you start-up *underfunded* vs those who ARE well funded...
xx
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:31 am

usxguy wrote:
or its taking longer than they expected to get all the needed capital (or liquid capital). Lets not forget what happens when you start-up *underfunded* vs those who ARE well funded...


nonsense ... these imbeciles could have been in the air with much smaller aircraft demonstrating the demand for the routes the announced ...

GRR - MKE .. plenty of air charter carriers that can fly the route for them under their colors to show the demand ... the fact they have raised no money since their grand announcement last year should make it crystal clear by now
 
Blerg
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:40 am

Didn't they have a CRJ painted in their livery? Where is the plane right now?
 
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knope2001
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:27 am

As referenced just a few posts above, in mid-December they announced a revised target of having schedules and pricing and start date announced near the end of Q1 2020

Travelers eagerly anticipating the return of Milwaukee-based Midwest Express Airlines will have a longer wait. The airline's president Greg Aretakis said told the Milwaukee Business Journal Friday that schedules, pricing and initial flights are expected to be announced near the end of the first quarter 2020.


But apparently an a.net poster has decided that late January is the make or break point, so here we go again.


Blerg wrote:
Didn't they have a CRJ painted in their livery? Where is the plane right now?


Yup, Midwest had Elite bring in a CRJ with Midwest Express decals a few months back for a press event in Milwaukee. That plane continued to be in service for Elite (and may continue to be), it was not a Midwest plane parked and waiting for the start of service. However several weeks back it was reported that most of the decals have been removed except the Midwest Express title, though it was missing a letter. There are several possible reasons that don't necessarily spell doom for this, such as

--That particular aircraft may have never been planned for Midwest, only mocked up for the press event.
--That particular aircraft may still be planned for Midwest but many of the decals were removed because they were coming off or they were not replaced when maintenance to a part or surface removed them.
--That particular aircraft may have originally been planned for Midwest, though plans have changed such as different specific CRJs are being earmarked for the Midwest operation.
--That particular aircraft may have originally been planned for Midwest, though plans have changed and now CR7 will be used instead of CRJ.
--Midwest may instead be working to partner with someone else instead of Elite

In my opinion there's likely a benign reason for some but not all of the Midwest decals to be off of that demo aircraft, one that doesn't really tell us much about the prospects for the launch at all. Obviously it could still be tanking, or they could be making good progress toward announcing something in the next 60 days or so. But specific to the aircraft, I don't think it's a telling thing. Not long after the aircraft was spotted there were Midwest Express people at a community event handing out promotional cookies so it was (at least at that point) not a failed venture.
 
SkyVoice
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:38 am

As of today--Friday, 31 January, 2020--there is nothing on CVG's website about the rebooted Midwest Express. CVG's Public Information Office is VERY GOOD at publishing news releases about new service at CVG. As of now, they have nothing to report!

https://www.cvgairport.com/about/news
"Facing a crisis does not not build one's character, it reveals it."

"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."

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Ishrion
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:00 am

Blerg wrote:
Didn't they have a CRJ painted in their livery? Where is the plane right now?


https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n96ea
 
UWPAviation
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:46 pm

I have a very dear friend of mine who works for the Milwaukee Business Journal whom I was at a wedding with this past weekend. I asked about Midwest and they laughed. They said that it’s a pipe dream at best. And that the big grand announcement at Mitchell was way to soon. Just like the rest of us they hope it does become a reality but they, from what they know, don’t believe it will happen.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:29 pm

We are now approaching the end of February and still nothing ... this is going nowhere
 
Jetsouth
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:34 pm

Maybe they realized, like Baltia and California Pacific that if you are going to set up and run an airline, its better to set up an airline that doesn't fly planes, rather than one that does. You lose less money that way.....:). Baltia lasted 30 years without flying one plane.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:40 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
Maybe they realized, like Baltia and California Pacific that if you are going to set up and run an airline, its better to set up an airline that doesn't fly planes, rather than one that does. You lose less money that way.....:). Baltia lasted 30 years without flying one plane.


To be fair ... Cal Pacific did get in the air for a few weeks
 
rj777
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:46 pm

the DNC is coming to MKE in 5 months...... would be a perfect time to launch service
 
airtran737
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:52 pm

rj777 wrote:
the DNC is coming to MKE in 5 months...... would be a perfect time to launch service


It's not going to happen. Maybe someone opened up an Economics 101 textbook and realized that the business model isn't sustainable. Midwest Express is a pipedream created by those who can't let go of a brand that couldn't compete in the 21st century.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:34 am

Update on Midwest:
- Announcements to come by the end of March (Q1).
- Midwest could use either the CRJ200 and/or the CRJ700 for their routes.
- Elite is prepared to begin flights for Midwest, and could work with them for up to two years.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/n ... rn-of.html
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:41 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Update on Midwest:
- Announcements to come by the end of March (Q1).
- Midwest could use either the CRJ200 and/or the CRJ700 for their routes.
- Elite is prepared to begin flights for Midwest, and could work with them for up to two years.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/n ... rn-of.html

They'll just keep pushing out that start date as long as people believe them. "Just a little bit longer...just a little bit longer."

:lol:
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:59 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Update on Midwest:
- Announcements to come by the end of March (Q1).
- Midwest could use either the CRJ200 and/or the CRJ700 for their routes.
- Elite is prepared to begin flights for Midwest, and could work with them for up to two years.

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/n ... rn-of.html

They'll just keep pushing out that start date as long as people believe them. "Just a little bit longer...just a little bit longer."

:lol:

Kind of sad, but it's reminiscent of a very large pending construction project on the lakefront in Milwaukee that has been "in process" literally for years, and shovels are yet to turn any dirt. All the uncertainty going on recently doesn't bode well for ME 2.0 though.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
Jetsouth
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:08 pm

They probably realized, like Baltia, that running an airline without planes loses less money than one running one with planes.
 
airtran737
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:12 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox6now.co ... ement/amp/

And so ends the partnership with Elite. Keep dreaming MKE. This idiotic idea is stalled yet again.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
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knope2001
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:01 pm

airtran737 wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox6now.com/2020/03/09/midwest-express-ends-partnership-with-elite-airways-cites-breach-in-agreement/amp/

And so ends the partnership with Elite. Keep dreaming MKE. This idiotic idea is stalled yet again.


So much for the Elite president saying "all is well" to the Milwaukee Business Journal just over a week ago. My assumption that he would have declined such an interview if there was trouble was apparently wrong -- seems odd this would come completely out of the blue.

I don't think the fundamentals on this change (and yes, I clearly recognize there are some who sharply disagree on the merits) but from a practical point of view one wonders if they have ample resources to pursue a different partner. That we are on the threshold of a serious travel (and possibly overall) recession of unclear duration only makes things more difficult.

Midwest said to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that they are conducting "substantial discussions with other airline operators," with which to partner, but I wouldn't expect them to say much different at this point. "Substantial" is a very subjective term. It's possible they got pretty far with somebody else but decided to go with Elite, or they might be mostly back to square one. Airlines are reeling these days so it would hardly be a surprise if anything with a new partner would be on hold until the broader industry situation becomes clearer.
Last edited by knope2001 on Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
airtran737
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Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:13 pm

knope2001 wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox6now.com/2020/03/09/midwest-express-ends-partnership-with-elite-airways-cites-breach-in-agreement/amp/

And so ends the partnership with Elite. Keep dreaming MKE. This idiotic idea is stalled yet again.


So much for the Elite president saying "all is well" to the Milwaukee Business Journal just over a week ago. My assumption that he would have declined such an interview if there was trouble was apparently wrong -- seems odd this would come completely out of the blue.

I don't think the fundamentals on this change (and yes, I clearly recognize who sharply disagree on the merits) but from a practical point of view one wonders if they have ample resources to pursue a different partner. That we are on the threshold of a serious travel (and possibly overall) recession of unclear duration only makes things more difficult.


I think with the upheaval at United as far as regional partners goes, Air Wisconsin will be on the outside looking in during the next round. This would be the ideal partner for YX as they try to move forward.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3021
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:01 pm

airtran737 wrote:
I think with the upheaval at United as far as regional partners goes, Air Wisconsin will be on the outside looking in during the next round. This would be the ideal partner for YX as they try to move forward.


They always kind of seem like a cat on its eighth or ninth life. Nothing but aging CRJ's for many years now since the tide turned against 50-seat RJ's. Opening up something other than their United Express partnership could mean avoiding lights out if UA* goes. Not sure who else would necessarily want their lift. Flying as Midwest Express would only use a rather small fraction of the fleet and obviously be much higher risk than UA*. And if we do get a recession the business demand needed for this to have a prayer of working might be too low. But Air Wisconsin might just be a motivated enough entity to try to work something out in a way a bigger carrier like Skywest with more prospects might not be.
 
AZORMP
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:08 pm

Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:45 pm

knope2001 wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
I think with the upheaval at United as far as regional partners goes, Air Wisconsin will be on the outside looking in during the next round. This would be the ideal partner for YX as they try to move forward.


They always kind of seem like a cat on its eighth or ninth life. Nothing but aging CRJ's for many years now since the tide turned against 50-seat RJ's. Opening up something other than their United Express partnership could mean avoiding lights out if UA* goes. Not sure who else would necessarily want their lift. Flying as Midwest Express would only use a rather small fraction of the fleet and obviously be much higher risk than UA*. And if we do get a recession the business demand needed for this to have a prayer of working might be too low. But Air Wisconsin might just be a motivated enough entity to try to work something out in a way a bigger carrier like Skywest with more prospects might not be.


Touching on that quickly without going too far off-track...

SkyWest has the same issue with the CRJ1s and 2s. I've heard stories from my DL buddies that SkyWest is currently in deep crap with mainline DL and have very recently have been having issues with large numbers of OO regional jets down for maintenance issues, draining any sort of reserve that DL has available for one-off situations. Here is a recent example: OO broke a CRJ2 on arrival in AZO. The aircraft sat for at least a day while SkyWest MTC worked on the jet. Supposedly they had to do gear swings at the gate to find and resolve the issue. When I flew into AZO last week, I overheard a couple of rampers saying that the crew had to call maintenance just after we blocked in for something else that broke. Even more recently, a friend of mine at AZO told me that an aircraft they were supposed to get returned to the stand in DTW for a maintenance issue and a call to the operations folks in ATL revealed that OO had so many jets down for maintenace that they couldn't switch flying to another regional partner because there were no other aircraft available. It's freaking ridiculous from both an operational standpoint as well as that of a passenger.

Moving back onto topic:

I've heard stories about ME, and I sincerely hope things work out for them. Obviously we don't know what the problem was with Elite, but with the coronavirus destroying the aviation industry right now, I would be surprised if anyone would be willing to take on a new operation at this point in time.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4902
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:14 am

CarlosSi wrote:
Yuck a CR2? Should’ve gone for an E170/175. Product is usually much better.

Per article, Elite Airways will own the planes, but the interior and soft product will be owned by Midwest.

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-New ... ess-planes

A bit underwhelming, but it’s a start.

theut what they needy should start with an airplane that they can operate first. The CRJ-200 might not be what they want, But what they need to get their feet under them. A LOT of airlines have stepped out too far in their first step. But Midwest being in Milwaukee? MIGHT WELL be able to draw ex Air Wisconsin and
ex Midwest express people back into the fold. and put up a pretty formidable little airline if they manage to get their operating feet under them again. I've worked at a couple of startup Airlines in my career, It was fun, But then I needed Stability and they never offered any so I eventually had to go the Majors though I missed the Adcenture of a start-up Carrier.
 
commpilot
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:21 pm

Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:27 am

.....Ponzi Scheme..... How did people give money for this absurd idea. It is a terrible plan and always will be. It would have bee cheaper to keep the old YX alive with reinvestment and actual management.
 
Gulfstream500
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:34 am

strfyr51 wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Yuck a CR2? Should’ve gone for an E170/175. Product is usually much better.

Per article, Elite Airways will own the planes, but the interior and soft product will be owned by Midwest.

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-New ... ess-planes

A bit underwhelming, but it’s a start.

theut what they needy should start with an airplane that they can operate first. The CRJ-200 might not be what they want, But what they need to get their feet under them. A LOT of airlines have stepped out too far in their first step. But Midwest being in Milwaukee? MIGHT WELL be able to draw ex Air Wisconsin and
ex Midwest express people back into the fold. and put up a pretty formidable little airline if they manage to get their operating feet under them again. I've worked at a couple of startup Airlines in my career, It was fun, But then I needed Stability and they never offered any so I eventually had to go the Majors though I missed the Adcenture of a start-up Carrier.


How about an ERJ with Contour, or a 328JET with Ultimate, Key Lime, or Advanced Air? Both Ultimate and Contour operated for OneJet, Advanced Air operates for Taos Air, and Key Lime currently operates for the Denver Air Connection brand (owned by Key Lime). The 328JETs and the ERJ135s are small enough that they can fill all of the seats, so those would work out okay if they can get customers on board at a reasonable price.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7942
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:54 am

AZORMP wrote:
knope2001 wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
I think with the upheaval at United as far as regional partners goes, Air Wisconsin will be on the outside looking in during the next round. This would be the ideal partner for YX as they try to move forward.


They always kind of seem like a cat on its eighth or ninth life. Nothing but aging CRJ's for many years now since the tide turned against 50-seat RJ's. Opening up something other than their United Express partnership could mean avoiding lights out if UA* goes. Not sure who else would necessarily want their lift. Flying as Midwest Express would only use a rather small fraction of the fleet and obviously be much higher risk than UA*. And if we do get a recession the business demand needed for this to have a prayer of working might be too low. But Air Wisconsin might just be a motivated enough entity to try to work something out in a way a bigger carrier like Skywest with more prospects might not be.


Touching on that quickly without going too far off-track...

SkyWest has the same issue with the CRJ1s and 2s. I've heard stories from my DL buddies that SkyWest is currently in deep crap with mainline DL and have very recently have been having issues with large numbers of OO regional jets down for maintenance issues, draining any sort of reserve that DL has available for one-off situations. Here is a recent example: OO broke a CRJ2 on arrival in AZO. The aircraft sat for at least a day while SkyWest MTC worked on the jet. Supposedly they had to do gear swings at the gate to find and resolve the issue. When I flew into AZO last week, I overheard a couple of rampers saying that the crew had to call maintenance just after we blocked in for something else that broke. Even more recently, a friend of mine at AZO told me that an aircraft they were supposed to get returned to the stand in DTW for a maintenance issue and a call to the operations folks in ATL revealed that OO had so many jets down for maintenace that they couldn't switch flying to another regional partner because there were no other aircraft available. It's freaking ridiculous from both an operational standpoint as well as that of a passenger.

Moving back onto topic:

I've heard stories about ME, and I sincerely hope things work out for them. Obviously we don't know what the problem was with Elite, but with the coronavirus destroying the aviation industry right now, I would be surprised if anyone would be willing to take on a new operation at this point in time.

Anecdotally I've had similar experiences with OO during the month of Feb. So many mechanical delays on the CR2s including a flight were the first aircraft had a mechanical, then the replacement aircraft had a mechanical, and the aircraft at the next gate over had a mechanical issue. Unreal.
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:36 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Yuck a CR2? Should’ve gone for an E170/175. Product is usually much better.

Per article, Elite Airways will own the planes, but the interior and soft product will be owned by Midwest.

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-New ... ess-planes

A bit underwhelming, but it’s a start.

theut what they needy should start with an airplane that they can operate first. The CRJ-200 might not be what they want, But what they need to get their feet under them. A LOT of airlines have stepped out too far in their first step. But Midwest being in Milwaukee? MIGHT WELL be able to draw ex Air Wisconsin and
ex Midwest express people back into the fold. and put up a pretty formidable little airline if they manage to get their operating feet under them again. I've worked at a couple of startup Airlines in my career, It was fun, But then I needed Stability and they never offered any so I eventually had to go the Majors though I missed the Adcenture of a start-up Carrier.


How about an ERJ with Contour, or a 328JET with Ultimate, Key Lime, or Advanced Air? Both Ultimate and Contour operated for OneJet, Advanced Air operates for Taos Air, and Key Lime currently operates for the Denver Air Connection brand (owned by Key Lime). The 328JETs and the ERJ135s are small enough that they can fill all of the seats, so those would work out okay if they can get customers on board at a reasonable price.


All of these carriers could just initiate service on their own if they believed a viable market existed ... what do they need Midwest for ?
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:14 pm

 
crjflyboy
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:00 am

according to most recent SEC information ... MIDWEST has still not raised any additional capital beyond the original 750,000 dollars in May of 2019

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data ... -index.htm

They might be able to make ago to GRR with 19 seat prop jets with someone else flying the planes, but I know of no existing carriers that could do this for them. Contour used to operate Jetstreams but no longer do.
 
Gulfstream500
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Midwest Express Route Announcements-August 28th

Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:28 am

crjflyboy wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
theut what they needy should start with an airplane that they can operate first. The CRJ-200 might not be what they want, But what they need to get their feet under them. A LOT of airlines have stepped out too far in their first step. But Midwest being in Milwaukee? MIGHT WELL be able to draw ex Air Wisconsin and
ex Midwest express people back into the fold. and put up a pretty formidable little airline if they manage to get their operating feet under them again. I've worked at a couple of startup Airlines in my career, It was fun, But then I needed Stability and they never offered any so I eventually had to go the Majors though I missed the Adcenture of a start-up Carrier.


How about an ERJ with Contour, or a 328JET with Ultimate, Key Lime, or Advanced Air? Both Ultimate and Contour operated for OneJet, Advanced Air operates for Taos Air, and Key Lime currently operates for the Denver Air Connection brand (owned by Key Lime). The 328JETs and the ERJ135s are small enough that they can fill all of the seats, so those would work out okay if they can get customers on board at a reasonable price.


All of these carriers could just initiate service on their own if they believed a viable market existed ... what do they need Midwest for ?


The thing is, they do not have to believe in the business model... they can just take in the steady payments per hour of flying, with minimal risk. That’s what regionals such as Endeavor and SkyWest have their entire business model centered around.
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?

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