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LAXBUR
Posts: 412
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:18 pm

IPFreely wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
lhpdx wrote:
Wow, not one single flight to Portland.in this announcement............


LOL! So ridiculous.

"Air China increases service between China and North Korea"

airliners.net: "WOW! Nothing about Portland!"

In one way or another PDX serves all the airports mentioned. Does your home airport need to have a service announcement everytime another airport gets service?


He’s not the only one. I expect to see another poster here shortly pointing out that AS is ignoring DTW.


I get this is a discussion board but this complaint was particularly irrelevant.
 
IPFreely
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:39 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
I get this is a discussion board but this complaint was particularly irrelevant.


I agree, and not only is it irrelevant it’s also absurd. Alaska (with Horizon) is already by far the best and most dominant airline at PDX with >40% market share. How many more flights or destinations can be added without cannibalizing their own service by stealing their own connecting passengers from other airports? These new routes are all about growing, not taking passengers from another hub and routing them thru PDX instead.
 
flyoregon
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:49 pm

IPFreely wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
I get this is a discussion board but this complaint was particularly irrelevant.


I agree, and not only is it irrelevant it’s also absurd. Alaska (with Horizon) is already by far the best and most dominant airline at PDX with >40% market share. How many more flights or destinations can be added without cannibalizing their own service by stealing their own connecting passengers from other airports? These new routes are all about growing, not taking passengers from another hub and routing them thru PDX instead.


Exactly right! I’m from Portland and have been here my entire life so I would consider myself a pretty strong proponent for the airport, but there a few that are constantly whining about Portland not getting this or that route every single time. Admittedly, I’ve been annoyed that BA added SJC, AUS, or BNA, or whatever other type of route, but what I also understand it. What I don’t understand is the constant complaining if an airline adjusts routes and frequencies to meet demand without logically understanding why. In the Oregon Thread WN was noted to have adjusted schedules and many concluded it was due to the MAX issues, while other quickly dismissed that reasoning when realistically that is exactly why.

Bottomline, there are thousands of cities around the world and everyone’s home airport doesn’t need to have a nw route announced every single week.
 
dolphinflyer
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:51 pm

Disappointing to see AS increase frequencies on SNA-SFO and SNA-SJC rather than using those slots to begin SNA-SMF 3x/day. SMF-SNA needs the competition.
 
TWA902fly
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:40 pm

jplatts wrote:
TWA902fly wrote:
AS did serve ANC-SFO up until at least 2002, they must have had their reasons. Most likely they were fine with funneling all the traffic from ANC through SEA, PDX, and LAX. This also might be a way to prevent UA from going year-round on ANC-SFO. UA's year-round ANC-DEN seems to do just fine, as does AS's ANC-LAX.

The Bay Area probably generates enough traffic for Alaska-Bay Area O+D to justify this flight. I doubt it has much to do with the Virgin America purchase. I cannot think of a single connection available over SFO that wasn't available over SEA/PDX/LAX/ORD, although it does make sense to connect two of their hubs - ANC and SFO.

http://www.departedflights.com/AS102802.html


In addition to O&D, AS will also have some connecting feed from smaller Alaskan markets that do not have nonstop service to the contiguous U.S. on the SFO-ANC route. AS also has an FF base in Alaska (in both ANC and smaller Alaskan markets) to support SFO-ANC nonstop service on AS.


Yep, that's what I meant by "Alaska-Bay Area O+D". I live in Fairbanks and with AS's 49er Club, everyone in this state is very loyal to the airline.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 422
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:54 pm

AS also did GEG-BOI-LAX on MD-80s in late 80s. 1/ day each way. It seems lke overkill to me now. With AS , just that much more.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
jsta1981
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:58 pm

IPFreely wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
I get this is a discussion board but this complaint was particularly irrelevant.


I agree, and not only is it irrelevant it’s also absurd. Alaska (with Horizon) is already by far the best and most dominant airline at PDX with >40% market share. How many more flights or destinations can be added without cannibalizing their own service by stealing their own connecting passengers from other airports? These new routes are all about growing, not taking passengers from another hub and routing them thru PDX instead.


I feel like I should apologize for some of the PDX posters....some of them are very dramatic.
 
Noise
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:18 pm

jsta1981 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
I get this is a discussion board but this complaint was particularly irrelevant.


I agree, and not only is it irrelevant it’s also absurd. Alaska (with Horizon) is already by far the best and most dominant airline at PDX with >40% market share. How many more flights or destinations can be added without cannibalizing their own service by stealing their own connecting passengers from other airports? These new routes are all about growing, not taking passengers from another hub and routing them thru PDX instead.


I feel like I should apologize for some of the PDX posters....some of them are very dramatic.


No worries - we know that people from Portland are "special".
 
Noise
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:18 pm

To my earlier question...is SAN a hub now for AS?
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:36 pm

Love to see the additional STS-SAN flight. Our one per day is packed despite fairly steep fares. SAN-STS leaves at 0900 and STS-SAN departs at 1135. Looks like the evening flight times are unchanged.
 
as739x
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:40 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
flybry wrote:
I wonder if United will pull out of the SFO-ANC market now that Alaska will be entering it? :/


It’s actually a resumption. AS has flown SFO-ANC in the past.


And lets hope they bring back with it the frozen Snickers Bars. We used to duke it out with the mechanics to get them before catering got on the plane after it landed!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
gmcc
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:45 pm

as739x wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
flybry wrote:
I wonder if United will pull out of the SFO-ANC market now that Alaska will be entering it? :/


It’s actually a resumption. AS has flown SFO-ANC in the past.


And lets hope they bring back with it the frozen Snickers Bars. We used to duke it out with the mechanics to get them before catering got on the plane after it landed!


This is a much more eco AS. They will have frozen tofu bars. :duck:
 
DDR
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:06 pm

Not a lot of mainline flying in this announcement. Do AS pilots even have a scope clause in their contract?
 
scoping2008
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:31 pm

DDR wrote:
Not a lot of mainline flying in this announcement. Do AS pilots even have a scope clause in their contract?


Nope. No scope clause.
 
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SANFan
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:40 pm

Noise wrote:
To my earlier question...is SAN a hub now for AS?

SAN is still merely a focus city AFAIK. Long way from hub material, with around 50 daily departures PLUS a dwindling number of nonstop destinations... ;)

SonomaFlyer wrote:
Love to see the additional STS-SAN flight. Our one per day is packed despite fairly steep fares. SAN-STS leaves at 0900 and STS-SAN departs at 1135. Looks like the evening flight times are unchanged.

Yes, I agree. Last year I remember reading that the STS Airport folks were about to make a formal presentation to AS in order to increase capacity to SAN. It must've worked! The current (single) r/t does very well -- always has in fact -- and the market can certainly handle an increase in service.

BOI will also go to daily-double service next spring; I'm glad they did that rather than upgauge the one flight to mainline. WN has a single daily r/t and this way, AS can offer flyers a choice of times. Should work out very well.

bb
 
LAXBUR
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:42 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
AS also did GEG-BOI-LAX on MD-80s in late 80s. 1/ day each way. It seems lke overkill to me now. With AS , just that much more.


This route does this during real estate booms. It did last time with as much or more service. Most home purchasers are coming from SoCal. Boise registered the biggest price gains year over year right now for homes. Everything is ERJ or CRJ so I think 5 or 6 flights a day to the largest metro in the West is doable at least for now. I mean there a combined 15 or more flights just to Seattle from BOI now. I believe passenger counts will go over 4mil this year and the metro is at least 750k now.
 
grbauc
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:36 am

tphuang wrote:
SANFan wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Wow. Almost nothing at SJC. Very disappointing.

It does appear that SJC-BUR has been cut in November; it looks permanent.

And as mentioned up-thread, AS will up the SAN-SJC route to 6x daily starting in March! Of course that is compared to the 16 weekday r/t run by the competition! At least this is one market in which WN has turned up the heat but AS has decided to stay and battle.

bb

interesting, I've long wondered how long that route was going to stick around given how much it underperformed. Not a surprise it's gone now.

It seems to me that AS is retreating against WN in both SAN/SFO, especially on non-west coast stuff, and going back to more of PNW strategy. This should be a more profitable strategy for them, although I would imagine it's going to really hurt their network and ff base in California.


If True that would be a big white flag and a failed attempt to become more then a regional airline vs a west coast airline. Not sure its at that point but i'll be sad if they don't capitalize better off there Virgin America purchase. I'm hoping for them to become a true west coast airline.
 
grbauc
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:41 am

jplatts wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
A lot of routes are ending or being seasonally suspended, though.

LAX loses one route, PHL.


DL adding LAX-PHL nonstop service is a possibility since (a) PHL is one of the top destinations traveled to from LAX that DL doesn't currently serve nonstop from PHL, (b) AA and NK are currently the only carriers serving PHL nonstop from LAX, (c) DL already has a significant amount of nonstop service out of PHL to its Midwestern and East Coast hubs and focus cities, and (d) AA and WN are currently the only airlines that have more market share at PHL than DL does.



I swear I think your a bot and not a person. This about AS
 
babastud
Posts: 274
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:44 am

LAXBUR wrote:
I think Alaska did this a bit backwards. Instead of adding a bunch of Mid-West cities from say San Diego they should have started with these West Coast adds. I didn’t quite get the idea of competing with Southwest (outside of intra-California) while absorbing Virgin. Perhaps down the road some of these reductions can come back.



I tend to agree. When they bought VX they got a bunch of mid-west and some east coast routes. I think they tried to see how it was going to work out expanding on these, and they sorta had to justify this strategy to investors and etc. However, does someone in Raleigh NC familiar with Alaska? not really. AS strength is really NW and west coast, Hawaii, Alaska, Mexico. They have a following in this area and are a well liked airline. An SFO-ANC route really should have happened day one, but better late then never. Hope they expand to year round. The numbers are there.
 
ericm2031
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:33 am

So here's a full summary of the changes...haven't seen it posted on here yet:

Permanent cuts: SFO-ABQ/MCI, LAX-PHL, SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL, BOI-RNO, SJC-BUR

Seasonal cuts: SFO-BNA/BWI/PHL/RDU, SAN-BWI

New routes: SFO-ANC/GEG/RDM, LAX-GEG/RDM/BOI/MSO, SAN-RDM

Additional frequencies: SFO-ORD/SNA, SAN-MCO/BOI/BOS/STS/SJC
 
n7371f
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:37 am

GEG market has changed dramatically in last five years. AS has lost 10 percentage points on market share by continuing to feed GEG exclusively via SEA, PDX. They finally heard the music.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:53 am

ericm2031 wrote:
So here's a full summary of the changes...haven't seen it posted on here yet:

Permanent cuts: SFO-ABQ/MCI, LAX-PHL, SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL, BOI-RNO, SJC-BUR

Seasonal cuts: SFO-BNA/BWI/PHL/RDU, SAN-BWI

New routes: SFO-ANC/GEG/RDM, LAX-GEG/RDM/BOI/MSO, SAN-RDM

Additional frequencies: SFO-ORD/SNA, SAN-MCO/BOI/BOS/STS/SJC


Thanks for the summary.

Other recent cuts are: BLI-OGG/KOA, SNA-SJD/PVR, LAX-MRY/YVR, SEA-COS

Anything else cut lately? SAN really got cut back afte a few years of heavy growth.
 
JayWings
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:48 am

Glad to see some new, long awaited connecting the dot routes! I think AS is walking back a fair amount of the significant expansion they made in the initial days of the VX acquisition. To me, these newly announced routes seem to be what should have come before that type of explosive expansion. Build a foundation and create ways to get your customers to your new hubs. THEN, start expanding into places further away that they want to go! As others have stated I can see AS restarting a lot of these routes in the future, but it seems like they’ve decided to put the cart back behind the horse.

And hey! Maybe they’re pulling back from transcon flying because a deal with B6 is in the works!!! :stirthepot:
 
Philly65
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:30 am

Alaska is returning to a large regional west coast carrier. Some of these new routes do connect the dots primarily for local demand but what flow or connect opportunities are there when you cut transcon routes. Whatever.
 
TW787
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:14 pm

Philly65 wrote:
Alaska is returning to a large regional west coast carrier. Some of these new routes do connect the dots primarily for local demand but what flow or connect opportunities are there when you cut transcon routes. Whatever.


This. The routes that were cut were established to try to gain some relevance in places outside the PNW. Giving up on them signals that the VX merger was for nothing and that AS will be a "super" regional until they are finally purchased by someone. It's sad. I am a big fan of the AS product and brand but this is the wrong direction for their network in the long term. Will this be better in the short term? Maybe. But I wish they had management that would think beyond next quarter.
 
tphuang
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:26 pm

Here is what I see with these moves. SEA has been getting a lot of adds recently if you've been following OAG. Given all the growth there to defend against DL and their conservative growth estimates, cuts have to be made elsewhere. So you are seeing a lot of underperforming routes out of SFO/SAN to midcon and transcon market trimmed or cut outrights in favor of more conservative flights to their stronghold in PNW and Alaska. I fully expect there to be more trims than what has already been reported here. For example, they are losing a slot at SNA while adding one flight to SFO-SNA, so they need to cut 2 flights somewhere elsewhere.

All of this move of reducing stage length and going from mainline to regional will improve their RASM but also increase their CASM. I think it will be good for their margin, but undoubtedly hurt their position in bay area and San Diego going forward. With these reductions at SFO, I don't see how they can be a viable #2 to UA. It maybe discouraging to some people, but this is what airlines should do when facing margin pressure and drop in stock price.
 
AirFiero
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:04 pm

JayWings wrote:
Glad to see some new, long awaited connecting the dot routes! I think AS is walking back a fair amount of the significant expansion they made in the initial days of the VX acquisition. To me, these newly announced routes seem to be what should have come before that type of explosive expansion. Build a foundation and create ways to get your customers to your new hubs. THEN, start expanding into places further away that they want to go! As others have stated I can see AS restarting a lot of these routes in the future, but it seems like they’ve decided to put the cart back behind the horse.

And hey! Maybe they’re pulling back from transcon flying because a deal with B6 is in the works!!! :stirthepot:


The signs for this change had been there, we just didn’t put the puzzle together. First, a change of leadership in the route planning after a period of inactivity. Then, mid-con and transcon cuts like DAL-SJC/SAN and the others at SFO and SAN. Now increases in West Coast point to point. The thing is, that point to point stuff has been their focus for some time. Routes like SAN-STS/MRY and SEA-SBP/FAT. Instead of having a hub, perhaps in the Bay Area where regional flights would converge with mainline for connecting opportunities, AS has been going for point to point routes, mostly with the small regional/commuter jets. That isn’t unusual or unprecedented. In fact, with the explosion of smaller jets, there is a lot of growth in point to point routes across the industry. And it’s not just short to medium routes, just look at the long and thin routes being flown on 787 and 350’s.

I had thought a small to medium hub in central or Northern California would be a good plan for an airline like AS. You could connect cities like Santa Rosa with all the cities south of the Bay Area plus Hawaii and Mexico, or San Luis Obispo with Hi, Mex and all the cities in the northwest. Not to mention all of those Midwest and eastern destinations like DAL and EWR. But the tendency across the industry seems to be less emphasis on hubs and more on thin point to point routes. The new nonstops from RDM offers proof of their strategy.
 
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SANFan
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:23 pm

JayWings wrote:
Glad to see some new, long awaited connecting the dot routes! I think AS is walking back a fair amount of the significant expansion they made in the initial days of the VX acquisition. To me, these newly announced routes seem to be what should have come before that type of explosive expansion. Build a foundation and create ways to get your customers to your new hubs. THEN, start expanding into places further away that they want to go! As others have stated I can see AS restarting a lot of these routes in the future, but it seems like they’ve decided to put the cart back behind the horse.

And hey! Maybe they’re pulling back from transcon flying because a deal with B6 is in the works!!! :stirthepot:

You make some valid points, Jay'.
tphuang wrote:
Here is what I see with these moves. SEA has been getting a lot of adds recently if you've been following OAG. Given all the growth there to defend against DL and their conservative growth estimates, cuts have to be made elsewhere. So you are seeing a lot of underperforming routes out of SFO/SAN to midcon and transcon market trimmed or cut outrights in favor of more conservative flights to their stronghold in PNW and Alaska. I fully expect there to be more trims than what has already been reported here. For example, they are losing a slot at SNA while adding one flight to SFO-SNA, so they need to cut 2 flights somewhere elsewhere.

All of this move of reducing stage length and going from mainline to regional will improve their RASM but also increase their CASM. I think it will be good for their margin, but undoubtedly hurt their position in bay area and San Diego going forward. With these reductions at SFO, I don't see how they can be a viable #2 to UA. It maybe discouraging to some people, but this is what airlines should do when facing margin pressure and drop in stock price.

A point that I haven't seen or even made myself regarding AS and SAN. I think perhaps part of the great growth seen in the last few years in SAN was due to an ongoing battle with WN. SAN is a large WN station and WN is far and away the largest operation in the city. Once AS declared SAN as a focus city, I think they added a bunch of flights and routes here to see what they could do against WN's "owning" the city. It doesn't look like it worked out very well for AS; WN essentially chased AS off just about all the cities that AS just cut, and I include BWI in that list. But there's still plenty of competition between the 2 cx on many key SAN-routes: PDX, SJC, SFO, SMF, AUS, MCO, BOI, GEG, SJD, PVR and maybe even someday, Hawaii. Could we claim that AS helped run WN out of EWR? That's one SAN skirmish that I would have to give to AS!

Also, it needs to be noted that the total number of daily AAG departures in SAN will be remaining pretty much the same after all the dust settles. By next summer, as of now, AS should remain at right about 53 daily departures from their SoCal focus city, right about where they were this past summer! That tells me that AS is still pleased with their ops in SAN and are just shifting their focus. Of course as to how their (growing?) core of business travelers here will react to the loss of several important business destinations, and depending on the carriers future expansion plans for SAN, who knows? This mysterious new route expected to be announced soon, along with the already-known new route to RDM, might give some insight into how goes the future of AS in SAN.

bb
 
Noise
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:03 pm

Huge cuts for SAN, unfortunately.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:02 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
So here's a full summary of the changes...haven't seen it posted on here yet:

Permanent cuts: SFO-ABQ/MCI, LAX-PHL, SAN-ABQ/ELP/MCI/MSP/OMA/STL, BOI-RNO, SJC-BUR

Seasonal cuts: SFO-BNA/BWI/PHL/RDU, SAN-BWI

New routes: SFO-ANC/GEG/RDM, LAX-GEG/RDM/BOI/MSO, SAN-RDM

Additional frequencies: SFO-ORD/SNA, SAN-MCO/BOI/BOS/STS/SJC


Thank you for this wonderful summary! None of this comes as a surprise, of course. These changes seem to not only play to AS's strengths but also further indicate a truce between AS and WN. After all, WN recently threw in the towel on routes like SFO-AUS/DAL. They also reduced DAL-PDX/SEA to seasonal service.

Hardly surprising to see AS eliminate the last of its California-ABQ/MCI services, which never made much sense to begin with. ABQ and MCI, like other AS heartland markets, will continue to be served from the far less competitive Pacific Northwest hubs (PDX and SEA). I believe WN may have even reduced or eliminated its own ABQ/MCI-PDX/SEA services recently.

I never understood the expansion from SFO to markets where the AS brand was virtually unknown (i.e. BNA, IND, PHL). Those missions always seemed much better suited to UA, and I'm not surprised to see AS *finally* focused on linking its SFO hub to markets where it is somewhat strong (i.e. ORD, SNA) to very strong (i.e. ANC, GEG).

LAX will be interesting to watch. I figured a number of routes were on the chopping block along with PHL - BOS, BWI, DAL, FLL, IAD, LAS, ORD and SLC spring to mind. Even LAX-PAE seems to be struggling - and that is a niche route shielded from the excessive competition typical of this market. Maybe AS's LAX hub is working now that Hawaii and the East Coast have been added to the longstanding PNW and Mexican Riviera services, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see further cuts down the line.

Sad but not surprising to see BUR-SJC go, as the opportunity to add BUR-SFO has probably come and gone what with WN now well established on that route and a resurgent UA rebuilding its presence on that route. Maybe the intra-California trunk routes really are best left to WN?

As far as SAN is concerned, I never understood the rationale behind all the services to flyover country. It seems like AS services to places people actually want to go, like BOS and MCO, have been quite successful. Why not build on that success with services to places like FLL and ORD rather than OMA and STL?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 529
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:30 pm

It appears the SAN experiment failed.
 
alasizon
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:46 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
It appears the SAN experiment failed.


The changes don't show that it failed but rather they are beefing up routes that already operate within their existing strengths and pulling out of an area where they are a lesser known.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
tphuang
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:49 pm

Wn left ewr due to ua. Nothing to do with as.

San mco and Bo's got slight increase due to being relatively underserved routes, but that could easily change a year from now. I wouldn't count on those increases sticking around year round. This was a huge cut at San. Asm is down, mainline down and destination down. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. 2 more flights to sjc still make them the significantly weaker airline on that route
 
cschleic
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:55 pm

flyoregon wrote:
Holy smokes. 3 new routes from RDM is huge! Outside of Portland, AS has pretty much given up on Oregon cities like EUG and MFR, and for a while I thought Redmond, but this is awesome news.


Unfortunately too true with EUG. Would be great if they had more than than connections through PDX and SEA. The former SJC flight had ridiculous timing.
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:03 pm

AS looks like it decided to focus on north-south routes in the west. There isn't anything wrong with that and doesn't mean they "have" to be bought out or can't be successful.

We don't have to have four mega carriers.

I'm fine flying AS for north-south stuff out of STS and UA to the east unless WN's service out of OAK makes more sense for timing reasons.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:30 pm

SonomaFlyer wrote:
AS looks like it decided to focus on north-south routes in the west. There isn't anything wrong with that and doesn't mean they "have" to be bought out or can't be successful.

We don't have to have four mega carriers.

I'm fine flying AS for north-south stuff out of STS and UA to the east unless WN's service out of OAK makes more sense for timing reasons.


Nice to hear some common sense. AS should do what's in the best interest of the company, not what everyone on a.net thinks they should do. And if that means beefing up SEA, PDX and less transcon/more short-haul to feed their hubs and focus cities then good for them. They will never be a 'major' major airline...even if they merged with B6, NK and F9 they'd still be number 5. Stick with what you know and be the best at it.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:06 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
It appears the SAN experiment failed.


Only to those specific cities.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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Coronado990
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:44 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
It appears the SAN experiment failed.


Only to those specific cities.


I bet F9 will pick up SAN to MCI & STL. Perhaps even ABQ and ELP. With a stronger presence in the southwest, a return to COS/OKC/TUL could round out their regional portfolio from SAN which currently includes DEN/LAS/PHX/AUS/SAT.
SFO=NoCal LAX=SoCal SAN=LoCal
 
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SANFan
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:30 am

Coronado990 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
It appears the SAN experiment failed.


Only to those specific cities.



I bet F9 will pick up SAN to MCI & STL. Perhaps even ABQ and ELP. With a stronger presence in the southwest, a return to COS/OKC/TUL could round out their regional portfolio from SAN which currently includes DEN/LAS/PHX/AUS/SAT.

At some point in recent time, G4 served (serves) SAN-ELP so that market is already in the realm of a ULCC (if G4 still serves it. It's very hard for me to be certain about that.)

That doesn't mean of course that F9 wouldn't touch it anyway. THEY certainly don't seem to shy away from WN real estate.

I agree completely with EA'. As was reported earlier, with SAN's flight count remaining the same next spring/summer as it was this last spring and summer, there seems little question that SAN's status in the AS network must be pretty much the same as it has been. The destinations have been reduced but increased flying to the rest of the cities served has kept things overall pretty steady.

The strategy is certainly shifted but I'd have to say The Experiment is alive and well!

bb
 
lhpdx
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:39 am

Noise wrote:
Huge cuts for SAN, unfortunately.
I was truly hoping that AS would grow SAN into a hub, unfortunately, the experiment failed......
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:58 am

lhpdx wrote:
Noise wrote:
Huge cuts for SAN, unfortunately.
I was truly hoping that AS would grow SAN into a hub, unfortunately, the experiment failed......


No, just those particular routes didn’t work, so they’re gone. For now, anyway.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:22 pm

Is there any new news (or any authoritative rumor) regarding Alaska joining One World Connect?
 
AirFiero
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:19 pm

lhpdx wrote:
Noise wrote:
Huge cuts for SAN, unfortunately.
I was truly hoping that AS would grow SAN into a hub, unfortunately, the experiment failed......


I was hoping the same for SJC. It looks like AS is emphasizing more point to point over hubs.
 
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SANFan
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:08 pm

AirFiero wrote:
lhpdx wrote:
Noise wrote:
Huge cuts for SAN, unfortunately.
I was truly hoping that AS would grow SAN into a hub, unfortunately, the experiment failed......


I was hoping the same for SJC. It looks like AS is emphasizing more point to point over hubs.

Personally, I think we need to keep a close eye on AS in SJC.

With both WN and DL growing to some degree at Mineta, I wonder if AS might back off some of the routes they fly there, as they just did in SAN and SFO? It seems that WN chased AS off several routes so might the same thing also occur in SJC? After all, SJC-DAL and SJC-BUR are being dropped already by AS -- is that it?

Perhaps, as a few hints have suggested, this strategy change by AAG is quite limited in scope, and/or even just temporary. (That would be wonderful news for me!) And it's very possible that everything AS flies to and from SJC is performing great and the network there is just the way AAG wants it.

Remember, SJC and SAN are the 2 AS focus cities with roughly the same number of daily flights. I certainly hope they don't cull several routes from SJC but I will sure be watching what happens next.

bb
 
MAH4546
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:45 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
So here's a full summary of the changes...haven't seen it posted on here yet:


LAX will be interesting to watch. I figured a number of routes were on the chopping block along with PHL - BOS, BWI, DAL, FLL, IAD, LAS, ORD and SLC spring to mind. Even LAX-PAE seems to be struggling - and that is a niche route shielded from the excessive competition typical of this market. Maybe AS's LAX hub is working now that Hawaii and the East Coast have been added to the longstanding PNW and Mexican Riviera services, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see further cuts down the line.


Alaska has long been a strong player at LAX, unlike SFO. I don’t see any significant cuts at LAX. BWI and SLC in particular predate the merger. It offers healthy frequency to WAS, FLL, and LAS.

In fact, pretty sure nothing pre-merger has been cut from LAX except for Cancun and Orlando. PHL was a post-merger route.
a.
 
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RWA380
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:52 pm

SANFan wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
lhpdx wrote:
I was truly hoping that AS would grow SAN into a hub, unfortunately, the experiment failed......


I was hoping the same for SJC. It looks like AS is emphasizing more point to point over hubs.

Personally, I think we need to keep a close eye on AS in SJC.

With both WN and DL growing to some degree at Mineta, I wonder if AS might back off some of the routes they fly there, as they just did in SAN and SFO? It seems that WN chased AS off several routes so might the same thing also occur in SJC? After all, SJC-DAL and SJC-BUR are being dropped already by AS -- is that it?

Perhaps, as a few hints have suggested, this strategy change by AAG is quite limited in scope, and/or even just temporary. (That would be wonderful news for me!) And it's very possible that everything AS flies to and from SJC is performing great and the network there is just the way AAG wants it.

Remember, SJC and SAN are the 2 AS focus cities with roughly the same number of daily flights. I certainly hope they don't cull several routes from SJC but I will sure be watching what happens next.

bb


Don't forget DL's new found interest at SJC, going as far as to call it a hub or focus city? SJC is going to be crowded & hopefully the market-share that bleeds to alternate bay area airports starts using SJC, as the roster of n/s destinations increases over the three carriers.

I would be less concerned about the monthly city cuts, adjustments & adds right now at this stage of the acquisition. Every merge has had this same process, the cutting of routes, the adding of new ones, the cutting of the ones that didn't work out & the redistribution of the flights to the core markets that strengthen their home turf & pushing the process of looking at stations further afield & less familiar to a later date.

AAG certainly has modified some aspects of it's strategy to meet the demands of an ever changing market & financial health of our economy. There is NO way any carrier can determine what will be happening 5 years down the road. They can "speculate" & "forecast" but the ups & downs of the economy drive an airline, look at 2008, no one saw that coming to that degree, ot the airlines would have been better positioned for that downturn. I guess that's like saying 'My alligator, is a bit of a nipper" but hopefully you get what I am referring to.

A friend of mine was on a layover in SAN for AAG & she called me to catch up, many of her routes are California based trips. She deadheads to Oakland on QX a lot & then operates the AS Hawaii flight to Maui the comes home to Portland from there. But after following her for years, she spends a fair amount of time in San Diego.

The single longest single duty day for Portland based FA's is is MCO-SAN-PDX, but she had just come in from PDX & had 24 hours until a morning flight to KOA. I guess what I am saying is, while SAN hasn't a crew base, it's still a city AS invests a lot into flying to & I do not expect their flying to increase or decrease much in the foreseeable future. I think PDX, SJC & SAN will remain rather flat for the next year.

LAX, SFO & SEA will get the most love as that is where AS has the most pressure from competition, but markets that are huge & demand their constant adjusting to, to meet the largest travel demands.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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durangomac
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:52 pm

lhpdx wrote:
Noise wrote:
Huge cuts for SAN, unfortunately.
I was truly hoping that AS would grow SAN into a hub, unfortunately, the experiment failed......


SAN has never been a "hub" for AS, they have always regarded it a focus city because SAN is not relying on connecting traffic. Since the O+D traffic apparently doesn't support some routes they have decided to reduce or cut routes, nothing crazy.

SAN is still considered a important focus city and I wouldn't be surprised to see new routes in the future or increase in frequency on key markets.
 
grbauc
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:03 pm

Philly65 wrote:
Alaska is returning to a large regional west coast carrier. Some of these new routes do connect the dots primarily for local demand but what flow or connect opportunities are there when you cut transcon routes. Whatever.


They really should beef up the west coast first imop. North south and west coast dominance should be there goal before national airline aspires.
 
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SANFan
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:17 am

RWA380 wrote:
I guess what I am saying is, while SAN hasn't a crew base...

I do believe SAN is still an f/a base is it not B? It became one on 4-1-2013 with between 150-200 flt attendants; if that has ended, I'm not aware of it. I do not believe there are any cockpit crews based here however and maybe that's what you were referring to. (I have a copy of the PR but can't copy any of it into this post. Sorry.) You may want to verify the current situation with your many sources at the carrier.

There is also an OO crew base in SAN to support that aspect of AAG's ops here.

I was gobsmacked when I first heard on Tuesday, I believe it was, about all the lost routes at SAN -- much more than any other city, it turned out. As more information and some slightly optimistic remarks have emerged, and I've thought about it all and talked with others, I've calmed down a lot and quite accepting of the whole situation. For what it's worth, I have no doubt that things in general will not be altered in any major way at SDIA, that we will remain a focus city, and growth will continue. AS has more gates now than they did 7 months ago and I'm sure they still have a growing freq flyer base in town.

The fact that at the same time AS axed 6 or 7 routes -- all just single flights -- from the SAN route map, they added enough new flights (on existing routes) to keep our total departures the same, is important. Also, at the same time was the announcement of a new route in January (RDM) and the promise of another new route being announced soon. Whether it's a shortie to say SBA or SBP, or a new transcon such as JFK, PHL or FLL, I'll still be excited at the news of more growth from our airport's second biggest carrier (in terms of pax, market share, and # of departures!)

It's hard to remain real upset under those circumstances! I'm actually pretty fine with it all now! In fact, I think 2020 will be a good -- maybe great? -- year for AS in SAN!

bb.
 
JayWings
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Re: AS expands Pacific Northwest to California with 8 new routes & adds frequencies on others

Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:45 am

SANFan wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
I guess what I am saying is, while SAN hasn't a crew base...

I do believe SAN is still an f/a base is it not B? It became one on 4-1-2013 with between 150-200 flt attendants; if that has ended, I'm not aware of it. I do not believe there are any cockpit crews based here however and maybe that's what you were referring to. (I have a copy of the PR but can't copy any of it into this post. Sorry.) You may want to verify the current situation with your many sources at the carrier.

There is also an OO crew base in SAN to support that aspect of AAG's ops here.

I was gobsmacked when I first heard on Tuesday, I believe it was, about all the lost routes at SAN -- much more than any other city, it turned out. As more information and some slightly optimistic remarks have emerged, and I've thought about it all and talked with others, I've calmed down a lot and quite accepting of the whole situation. For what it's worth, I have no doubt that things in general will not be altered in any major way at SDIA, that we will remain a focus city, and growth will continue. AS has more gates now than they did 7 months ago and I'm sure they still have a growing freq flyer base in town.

The fact that at the same time AS axed 6 or 7 routes -- all just single flights -- from the SAN route map, they added enough new flights (on existing routes) to keep our total departures the same, is important. Also, at the same time was the announcement of a new route in January (RDM) and the promise of another new route being announced soon. Whether it's a shortie to say SBA or SBP, or a new transcon such as JFK, PHL or FLL, I'll still be excited at the news of more growth from our airport's second biggest carrier (in terms of pax, market share, and # of departures!)

It's hard to remain real upset under those circumstances! I'm actually pretty fine with it all now! In fact, I think 2020 will be a good -- maybe great? -- year for AS in SAN!

bb.


Can confirm SAN is absolutely a FA base for AS.

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