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heretothere
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:27 pm

Web500sjc wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
Web500sjc wrote:
I wonder how the Compass slots will work when Compass no longer flies DL Connection flights. currently at SNA, CO flies exclusively for DL.


No they don’t. Looking today, just at SNA-LAS for Delta, there are 4 flights operated by OO. SEA is operated by Compass, so common sense says DL will just drop the 4X daily LAS for the 4 slots they’re losing.



Yes, but what happens to the 4 class A slots CP currently owns. For all intents a purposes, they are slots CP picked up at the request of DL, they are slots that have only been used for DL connection flight, but they are owned by CP. By the end of 2020, CP will no longer fly for DL- will the slots be “traded” to DL, flown by CP as AA Eagle flights, or returned to the county for reallocation.

As it currently stands, DL is either happy with their slot portfolio (which includes the CP slots), or willing to slot squat, so I don’t imagine DL would like to loose access to the slots. WN is always willing to take extra slots at this airport, so This would be an opportunity for permanent WN expansion, and I am sure this wouldn’t go un noticed by AA, F9, AS and UA.


DL, CP, and WS apply for capacity as a group at SNA, so it shouldn’t be a problem shifting some from CP to DL or another regional.
 
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janders
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:53 pm

brabb12 wrote:
Whats more is that the city isn't pushing the airlines or trying to get others to come to start new service into SNA. When you look at ONT or BUR for example they are always trying to get new airlines or service to somewhere. It seems like SNA airport doesn't care at all. It would be nice to have a new airline or two there, along with maybe a flight to hawaii? The only airline I could see (trying) Hawaii service again would maybe be UA.


I am not sure there is a point of airport chasing after airlines. The airport sells itself with demand from existing operators exceeding allowed capacity already. The airport does have a waitlist and should there be available capacity in the future, a new entrant would be introduced.
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LAXintl
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:01 am

brabb12 wrote:
Whats more is that the city isn't pushing the airlines or trying to get others to come to start new service into SNA. When you look at ONT or BUR for example they are always trying to get new airlines or service to somewhere. It seems like SNA airport doesn't care at all. It would be nice to have a new airline or two there, along with maybe a flight to hawaii? The only airline I could see (trying) Hawaii service again would maybe be UA.


As mentioned prior, indeed not much point in the airport trying to market itself when its operating at capacity. The airport largely sells itself with excess demand for capacity that is available.

To my knowledge, the only time the airport had an incentive program was for Mexico flying back in 2014 for the new FIS. They also during post dot.com bust and economic slowdown had a domestic incentive program for carriers opening routes unserved cities from SNA.

But today it would largely be irrelevant trying to chase after new business when the airport cant meet all the existing demand for seats.
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UPlog
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:03 am

SWA dropping additional destinations from SNA as its slot portfolio shrinks.
Starting in March, Southwest will discontinue flights to Dallas, Houston, and to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico. Also service to Sacramento, San Jose and Oakland will operate with less frequency.

https://www.ocregister.com/2019/09/26/s ... e-airport/

SWA representative states historically company has picked up seat capacity unused by other airlines, but now that competitors are keeping or requesting additional seats, and planes are flying with fewer empty seats, so there’s less “extra” capacity that can be allocated within the airports operating limits.
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janders
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:41 pm

Interesting point article mentions that WN has shifted things at SNA going from 18 destinations to only 6 by next year.
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SurfandSnow
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:54 pm

janders wrote:
Interesting point article mentions that WN has shifted things at SNA going from 18 destinations to only 6 by next year.


Some of those nonstop services were quite short-lived (SNA-AUS/MCI/PDX/SEA spring to mind), while SNA-MDW has really only ever operated sporadically at best (I'm sure WN would love to call that service "seasonal"). However, I never expected to see services like SNA-DAL/SFO/SJD completely get cut. Then again, it was probably only about 10-12 years ago that WN only offered nonstop service to LAS, PHX, OAK, SJC and SMF from SNA. It doesn't feel like all that long ago when I saw a banner around the TSA checkpoint in DEN touting WN's new nonstop flights to Orange County...

WN cuts at SNA have certainly been a boon for nearby LGB and ONT, and perhaps BUR and LAX as well. Given that SNA's shiny new FIS will now be completely unused (other than the off chance that a WS YVR-SNA arrival needs to be re-screened), I think we can all agree that LGB made the right decision in saying no to such a facility. Of course the short 5,701 ft runway limits the potential international service, but SNA sure spent a lot of money just to gain one daily flight from Vancouver in the end...
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brabb12
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:23 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
janders wrote:
Interesting point article mentions that WN has shifted things at SNA going from 18 destinations to only 6 by next year.


Some of those nonstop services were quite short-lived (SNA-AUS/MCI/PDX/SEA spring to mind), while SNA-MDW has really only ever operated sporadically at best (I'm sure WN would love to call that service "seasonal"). However, I never expected to see services like SNA-DAL/SFO/SJD completely get cut. Then again, it was probably only about 10-12 years ago that WN only offered nonstop service to LAS, PHX, OAK, SJC and SMF from SNA. It doesn't feel like all that long ago when I saw a banner around the TSA checkpoint in DEN touting WN's new nonstop flights to Orange County...

WN cuts at SNA have certainly been a boon for nearby LGB and ONT, and perhaps BUR and LAX as well. Given that SNA's shiny new FIS will now be completely unused (other than the off chance that a WS YVR-SNA arrival needs to be re-screened), I think we can all agree that LGB made the right decision in saying no to such a facility. Of course the short 5,701 ft runway limits the potential international service, but SNA sure spent a lot of money just to gain one daily flight from Vancouver in the end...
At one point SNA had a few international flights at a time. Like at most 5 a day I think?
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:25 pm

janders wrote:
Interesting point article mentions that WN has shifted things at SNA going from 18 destinations to only 6 by next year.


Yes that is interesting. Southwest has a similar profile of destinations up the street in Long Beach with their limited number of slots.
 
tphuang
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:23 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
janders wrote:
Interesting point article mentions that WN has shifted things at SNA going from 18 destinations to only 6 by next year.


Yes that is interesting. Southwest has a similar profile of destinations up the street in Long Beach with their limited number of slots.

Big difference is that sna is very profitable whereas lgb is a complete disaster
 
jonair8
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:01 am

Compass/Delta flying is winding down by June. Schedule right now shows SNA-SEA being operated by OO CRJ-700s when that happens. It’s an interesting placeholder aircraft, seeing as how even SLC barely has the DL/OO CR7s now as they migrate east in favor of the E7W. Are SNA’s regional slots more plentiful or easier to gain than mainline slots? Any word from the SNA front on CP’s slots being transferred to OO? Would be interesting for the DL CR7 to actually return back to SEA...
 
nname
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:21 pm

Seems like there will be a new entrant this year:
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020-03 ... California

How would the slot allocated..?
 
wnflyguy
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:49 pm

SNA always holds slots/seats back for new entrants.
If no body applies by mid year it releases the seat back into allocation.

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nine4nine
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:48 pm

Damn I was hoping for Volaris. With Interjet gone and WN and AS having pulled Mexico routes I was hoping for a return of some Mexico service.
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FSDan
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:24 pm

LAXintl wrote:
The 2020 daily departure slot allocation and annual passenger capacity allocation for each carrier is as follows:

Compass - 4 / 222,528
Delta - 11 / 1,262,203

The slot losers vs. 2019 are AS -1, DL -4, WN -5


DL still has 5x daily SEA (SkyWest), 4x daily LAS (SkyWest), 5x daily SLC, 3x daily MSP, 1x daily DTW, and 3x daily ATL flights for sale in June 2020. Did they get some extra slots somehow, or should we anticipate reductions in the coming weeks?
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flymco753
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:55 pm

FSDan wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
The 2020 daily departure slot allocation and annual passenger capacity allocation for each carrier is as follows:

Compass - 4 / 222,528
Delta - 11 / 1,262,203

The slot losers vs. 2019 are AS -1, DL -4, WN -5


DL still has 5x daily SEA (SkyWest), 4x daily LAS (SkyWest), 5x daily SLC, 3x daily MSP, 1x daily DTW, and 3x daily ATL flights for sale in June 2020. Did they get some extra slots somehow, or should we anticipate reductions in the coming weeks?
The DTW flights are always packed, I don't see them getting rid of this flight. The frequency reduction is going to have to come from somewhere.
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FedexL1011
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:11 pm

Delta just announced in August they will be using the A220 on SEA-SNA so I would assume they will drop one or two CR7 flights in favor of the mainline service.
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YYZORD
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:07 pm

If AC is adding YVR-SNA, could YYZ-SNA work in the future with AC's A220?
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:32 am

YYZORD wrote:
If AC is adding YVR-SNA, could YYZ-SNA work in the future with AC's A220?


It’s possible AC will resume YYZ in the future (regardless of the aircraft) but I wouldn’t expect it. Previous service, launched a decade ago, lasted only one season. Granted, it was during the heart of the recession, but there’s few natural ties between OC and Toronto.
 
brabb12
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:27 am

nine4nine wrote:
Damn I was hoping for Volaris. With Interjet gone and WN and AS having pulled Mexico routes I was hoping for a return of some Mexico service.

I honestly don't expect any airline to restart flights to Mexico. One reason is the cost to have FIS staffed here is very expensive, that cost gets passed onto the customers from what I am told. I would love to see more flights to Mexico, but I doubt it will happen.
 
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longhauler
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:34 pm

YYZORD wrote:
If AC is adding YVR-SNA, could YYZ-SNA work in the future with AC's A220?

YYZ-SNA didn’t work well for AC.

They tried both morning and evening departures in both directions using either an A319 or an E190. I don’t think there was ever more than about 30 passengers.

I found it surprising as AC has/had as much as 8 flights a day from YYZ to LAX. Including several wide bodies a day. Personally, if I were going to the southern half of Los Angeles, I’d rather fly through SNA than LAX.
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MrBretz
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:56 pm

I hope the AC flight to Vancouver works. I was just looking at some dates in late June. Looks like an A319?
 
ScottB
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:29 pm

longhauler wrote:
I found it surprising as AC has/had as much as 8 flights a day from YYZ to LAX. Including several wide bodies a day. Personally, if I were going to the southern half of Los Angeles, I’d rather fly through SNA than LAX.


There's a trade-off between the more convenient airport and more convenient flight times. Single-daily YYZ-SNA is only more convenient if it goes at the times you want or you are extremely flexible about which time of day you arrive/depart. Business travelers are going to go with the more convenient schedule if it means they can leave earlier or later when meetings end early or run late. Plus AC probably gets better premium cabin revenue with the widebodies.

Regional airports like SNA or SJC or PBI really perform best in dense city-pair markets where there's enough traffic to support a frequent schedule.
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:52 pm

DL really drew the short stick. Given their strength in the socal market this is surprising
 
Dominion301
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:07 pm

longhauler wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
If AC is adding YVR-SNA, could YYZ-SNA work in the future with AC's A220?

YYZ-SNA didn’t work well for AC.

They tried both morning and evening departures in both directions using either an A319 or an E190. I don’t think there was ever more than about 30 passengers.

I found it surprising as AC has/had as much as 8 flights a day from YYZ to LAX. Including several wide bodies a day. Personally, if I were going to the southern half of Los Angeles, I’d rather fly through SNA than LAX.


I think it's the regionalism of SNA at play here. Even people that have very little knowledge of aviation know what LAX stands for. SNA on the other hand is no doubt far better known in BC than in Eastern Canada.
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:13 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
longhauler wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
If AC is adding YVR-SNA, could YYZ-SNA work in the future with AC's A220?

YYZ-SNA didn’t work well for AC.

They tried both morning and evening departures in both directions using either an A319 or an E190. I don’t think there was ever more than about 30 passengers.

I found it surprising as AC has/had as much as 8 flights a day from YYZ to LAX. Including several wide bodies a day. Personally, if I were going to the southern half of Los Angeles, I’d rather fly through SNA than LAX.


I think it's the regionalism of SNA at play here. Even people that have very little knowledge of aviation know what LAX stands for. SNA on the other hand is no doubt far better known in BC than in Eastern Canada.


I don’t know if the AC fares are going to be cheaper into SNA compared to LAX, but AC might also be going after tourist into Disneyland, Knotts, etc., and the beaches. Plus I’m sure there are people with vacation homes in the Orange County area.
 
MrBretz
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:17 am

A couple years back, I took a cruise leaving from Vancouver. I had to fly into Seattle to get up there. I note some of the Alaska cruises leave from Seattle and others from Vancouver. Living in south Orange County, I don't like driving to LAX unless I have to. So this may work for me but I am not planning any cruises until you know what abates.
 
brabb12
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:53 pm

With this Corona virus issue going on, does anyone think that air Canada may delay this flight?
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:07 pm

WN732 wrote:
More airport stupidity in SoCal, what else is new.


So you are in the camp that SNA should operate 24/7 with no slot restrictions? The current system was set up after both litigation and discussion which included home owners, political bodies, the airlines and the airport authority. It's a small airport with a short runway in a very affluent and busy area. Go to ONT for lots of space and room to grow.
 
WN732
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:14 am

SonomaFlyer wrote:
WN732 wrote:
More airport stupidity in SoCal, what else is new.


So you are in the camp that SNA should operate 24/7 with no slot restrictions? The current system was set up after both litigation and discussion which included home owners, political bodies, the airlines and the airport authority. It's a small airport with a short runway in a very affluent and busy area. Go to ONT for lots of space and room to grow.


Well hold on now. I understand the situation at SNA. I disagree with the position that there should have been a reduction in slots. Airplanes were vastly different back when the ordinance was implemented but things have changed substantially in the way of noise and efficiency. I feel that the slots should be allowed to expand for those reasons.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:29 am

WN732 wrote:
Well hold on now. I understand the situation at SNA. I disagree with the position that there should have been a reduction in slots. Airplanes were vastly different back when the ordinance was implemented but things have changed substantially in the way of noise and efficiency. I feel that the slots should be allowed to expand for those reasons.


:old:

But air carrier slots at SNA have increased, same with LGB.

Number of allowed air carrier movements has been on the rise at SNA. Its gone from 55 in 1985 to 80 something in early 2000s to over 100 today.
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WN732
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:43 am

LAXintl wrote:
WN732 wrote:
Well hold on now. I understand the situation at SNA. I disagree with the position that there should have been a reduction in slots. Airplanes were vastly different back when the ordinance was implemented but things have changed substantially in the way of noise and efficiency. I feel that the slots should be allowed to expand for those reasons.


:old:

But air carrier slots at SNA have increased, same with LGB.

Number of allowed air carrier movements has been on the rise at SNA. Its gone from 55 in 1985 to 80 something in early 2000s to over 100 today.


I am quoting your original post:

"Overall total slots awarded are down as air carrier requested seat capacity was far in excess of the airport's annual passenger limit. (almost 4mil additional seats). In other words, carriers are operating larger gauge aircraft, so fewer total movement are possible to stay within passenger allocation. The slot losers vs. 2019 are AS -1, DL -4, WN -5."

I'm going to be extremely honest - and you can call me a fanboy or whatever. I was mostly peeved that WN lost slots when they gobble up every one they can at SNA. And they do very well there - and it just irked me. But I do wish the airport had dispersed more slots overall due to demand and the other reasons.
 
alasizon
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:00 am

Just curious, how would/does the mid year allocation account for the giant drop in demand over the coronavirus reducing first half passenger numbers? Even with 100% LF from June forward, most of the carriers would be unable to hit their allocated passenger totals.
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LAXintl
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:54 am

WN732 wrote:
I am quoting your original post:

"Overall total slots awarded are down as air carrier requested seat capacity was far in excess of the airport's annual passenger limit. (almost 4mil additional seats). In other words, carriers are operating larger gauge aircraft, so fewer total movement are possible to stay within passenger allocation. The slot losers vs. 2019 are AS -1, DL -4, WN -5."

I'm going to be extremely honest - and you can call me a fanboy or whatever. I was mostly peeved that WN lost slots when they gobble up everyone they can at SNA. And they do very well there - and it just irked me. But I do wish the airport had dispersed more slots overall due to demand and the other reasons.


The only reason for number of slots allocated being down is because passenger volumes continue to rise as airlines use larger gauge aircraft and have high load factors.

Also the reason WN lost slots is that it never really had them. WN for a long period was able to utilize supplemental allocation as other airlines were not utilizing regular slots.

However ultimately both the number of slots and allowed passenger cap has risen through the decades, so one cant argue the airport is not keeping up with advancements in technology and aircraft noise.
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LAXintl
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:56 am

alasizon wrote:
Just curious, how would/does the mid year allocation account for the giant drop in demand over the coronavirus reducing first half passenger numbers? Even with 100% LF from June forward, most of the carriers would be unable to hit their allocated passenger totals.


It doesn't. Allocation is based on airline supplied historic LF.

Once in a lifetime black swan event is not part of the calculation. Same happened after 9/11. Some airlines pulled reduced or pulled out.
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strfyr51
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:14 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Wow! WN is forced to cut service at SNA yet again. It sounds like the only daily nonstop flights WN will still offer from SNA are DEN, LAS, OAK, PHX, SJC and SMF. I believe SNA-SJD has already been reduced to seasonal service (never mind the fact that AS recently cut all SNA-PVR/SJD flights), and it sounds like SNA-DAL/HOU are now seasonal as well. We can probably forget about SNA-MDW coming back anytime soon! That new FIS sure won't be getting much use.. no wonder LGB decided against one!

Meanwhile, DL will probably cut SNA-DTW just like it did SNA-JFK. After all, if they don't have the slots...


WN can still serve DAL/HOU/MDW via their growing hub at DEN. They're not out of anything. Don't whine! Looks like WN might have to consider larger airplanes to carry the passengers as many airports in popular areas are getting pretty cose to capacity.
 
jplatts
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed May 13, 2020 5:31 pm

I have mentioned WN possibly re-adding SNA-AUS/MDW/DAL/HOU nonstop service once demand for air travel returns with additional slots at SNA that will become available starting on January 1, 2021 with the limit on the number of average daily departures at SNA increasing to 95 daily departures from 85 daily departures starting on January 1, 2021 and with the limit on the number of annual passengers at SNA increasing to 11.8 million passengers per year from 10.8 million passengers per year starting in 2021.

I had also mentioned that WN can likely add additional flights out of SNA in November 2020 and December 2020 without exceeding the limits on the number of annual passengers as SNA is likely to carry fewer passengers in 2020 than was originally expected due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Is WN likely to take advantage of the additional slots that will become available at SNA starting on January 1, 2021?
 
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ADent
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed May 13, 2020 8:50 pm

It depends on how healthy WN is by then.

If they have some money for strategic moves, they will, esp for permanent slots.
 
tphuang
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Wed May 13, 2020 9:48 pm

I think WN will end up with a lot more slots at SNA when this is all over. I'd expect DL and AS to lose some slots.
 
brabb12
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu May 14, 2020 12:29 am

I don't know if I really see Southwest taking more slots. I think they may hold off for a while. It's gonna be extra slow at the airport for a long time. Also air Canada is planning to restart yvr-sna on September 8th.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu May 14, 2020 12:37 am

I would say WN can save some money too by expanding. They can consolidate into lax and sna and close lgb. Long beach has a cost to keep a whole station going.

No WN routes have really hit it out of the park in long Beach. The southwest customer is so use to lax and sna long beach is just flying to cities they already serve from both . It doesn't add that much. If they can get more SNA I think consolidation could make some sense to be stronger in the OC and save money by closing a station.
 
camdawg
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu May 14, 2020 1:47 am

Hoping with these addition slots maybe starting in 2021 WN brings back SFO-SNA
 
B737Captain1980
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Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu May 14, 2020 3:45 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
janders wrote:
Interesting point article mentions that WN has shifted things at SNA going from 18 destinations to only 6 by next year.


Some of those nonstop services were quite short-lived (SNA-AUS/MCI/PDX/SEA spring to mind), while SNA-MDW has really only ever operated sporadically at best (I'm sure WN would love to call that service "seasonal"). However, I never expected to see services like SNA-DAL/SFO/SJD completely get cut. Then again, it was probably only about 10-12 years ago that WN only offered nonstop service to LAS, PHX, OAK, SJC and SMF from SNA. It doesn't feel like all that long ago when I saw a banner around the TSA checkpoint in DEN touting WN's new nonstop flights to Orange County...

WN cuts at SNA have certainly been a boon for nearby LGB and ONT, and perhaps BUR and LAX as well. Given that SNA's shiny new FIS will now be completely unused (other than the off chance that a WS YVR-SNA arrival needs to be re-screened), I think we can all agree that LGB made the right decision in saying no to such a facility. Of course the short 5,701 ft runway limits the potential international service, but SNA sure spent a lot of money just to gain one daily flight from Vancouver in the end...


I've been saying this for over 3 decades that I've been flying out of SNA, as it is my home airport since I was 9 years old. SNA should have built a bridge over Bristol street as an overrun to 20R to lengthen the runway another 2200'. That would have allowed the B787 access on those long thin routes. LAX has multiple tunnels with airplanes taxing over them. When you exit the 105 freeway and drive towards LAX, the first thing they do is route you under a tunnel with 25L/R above you. That would have made 20R 8000' long. The airports property extends all the way past the golf course which would give them another quarter mile of breathing room after the runway ends. Alas, the NIMBY's would never have allowed it to happen.

I was at a political fundraiser in 2018 at Pelican Hill the week before the election where Dana Rhoerbacher was attempting to hang on(there was no chance of that with his Russia ties). Dana stood up at the house and told a row of semi billionaires that he wrote a letter to the CEO of Jetblue, informing him that a minor tweak to the design of the A320 would reduce its noise foot print tremendously. I nearly spit out my wine. Not one person in that room spoke up about Jetblue never having flown into SNA. I don't think anyone in that room even knew that fact. SNA has a tremendous amount of potential, but the multi billionaires that live under its departure path, wield tremendous amounts of power and influence over Newport Beach's city council and the county board of commissioners.

The vote for SNA to have a complete redesign was postponed 2 weeks ago due to COVID. They've been having meetings about it for years. If you think for one second plans haven't already been decided on how SNA will look for the next 40 years, you don't understand how deals are made behind closed doors. I know this for a fact, more than 2 billionaires that own FBO's at other airports and want access to SNA, are throwing money in every politicians direction to win the bid. They want to park their $50 million gulfstreams in a hangar, and they soon will. It costs $20,000 per month to park a G650 at ACI JET. My cessna costs $140 per month. Do the math. It's obvious where this is headed. The wealthy have the money, the politicians are more than willing to take it from them. Theres over about $1.5 Billion worth of aircraft just sitting on the ramp, in the elements, on a daily basis. Meanwhile, cessna's have 3 rows of shaded parking.

Whatever happens, construction probably won't begin until the end of the decade. After the vote finally occurs, the environmental studies must be completed, the lawsuits and counter lawsuits must be settled, THEN construction will begin. My guess is towards the end of the decade.
 
MrBretz
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu May 14, 2020 4:50 pm

Do you mean a bridge over Bristol and the 73?

Edit: I know Bristol is on both sides of the 73. The more ocean side is next to the golf course. In any case, it sounds like a novel idea.
 
B737Captain1980
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu May 14, 2020 10:15 pm

Screen Shot 2020-05-14 at 3.12.56 PM.png
MrBretz wrote:
Do you mean a bridge over Bristol and the 73?

Edit: I know Bristol is on both sides of the 73. The more ocean side is next to the golf course. In any case, it sounds like a novel idea.


Yup. Here's a overview of the property the airport owns.
 
MrBretz
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Thu May 14, 2020 10:23 pm

No picture, B737Captain1980.
 
gregn21
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:27 pm

Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Fri May 15, 2020 1:19 am

B737Captain1980 wrote:
Screen Shot 2020-05-14 at 3.12.56 PM.png
MrBretz wrote:
Do you mean a bridge over Bristol and the 73?

Edit: I know Bristol is on both sides of the 73. The more ocean side is next to the golf course. In any case, it sounds like a novel idea.


Yup. Here's a overview of the property the airport owns.


Where's the picture? I'm very curious. Does this mean it's possible they'll consider extending 20R/02L over the 73?
 
MrBretz
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Fri May 15, 2020 5:10 am

The captain seems to more than we do. Maybe he will share it. The golf course is on leased land but is absorbs some noise. He brought up the issue of private jets and covered storage. I had forgotten all that since it doesn’t affect me. Whatever happens there will be slowed down by lawsuits for years. I have a relative who lives on Balboa Is. She has told me the 7AM departures wake her up for work. But they love it there. Right now it is much quieter.
 
Albert12
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 3:34 pm

Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Fri May 15, 2020 5:17 am

Poor wn just continues to lose slots. I wonder where they are trim flights.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1567
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Fri May 22, 2020 4:44 pm

B737Captain1980 wrote:
I've been saying this for over 3 decades that I've been flying out of SNA, as it is my home airport since I was 9 years old. SNA should have built a bridge over Bristol street as an overrun to 20R to lengthen the runway another 2200'. That would have allowed the B787 access on those long thin routes. LAX has multiple tunnels with airplanes taxing over them. When you exit the 105 freeway and drive towards LAX, the first thing they do is route you under a tunnel with 25L/R above you. That would have made 20R 8000' long. The airports property extends all the way past the golf course which would give them another quarter mile of breathing room after the runway ends. Alas, the NIMBY's would never have allowed it to happen.


Expanding SNA's runway was probably never a serious consideration when Orange County sought to redevelop Marine Corps Air Station El Toro into a fully capable international airport. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20, but I have to think that an El Toro commercial airport probably would have become a white elephant if not in the Great Recession then certainly now. A centrally located facility in Irvine really is the perfect location for Orange County's airport. Those in the northwestern fringes of Orange County that find traffic to be a hindrance to/from SNA can easily use LGB, which offers just as wonderful of an airport experience as SNA does - plus, thanks to the much longer runway, nonstop services to BOS, HNL and JFK (at least this was the case before the pandemic, and hopefully it will be afterwards as well). I'm sure just like here in LA many OC travelers know that JetBlue offers quite a bit of service from the beautiful, hassle free LGB airport. Those in the northeastern fringes of Orange County that find traffic to be a hindrance to/from SNA can easily use ONT, which more or less also offers just as wonderful of an airport experience as LGB and SNA - plus, thanks to the much longer runways available, nonstop services to JFK and even Asia (at least this was the case before the pandemic, and hopefully it will be afterwards as well). Those in southern Orange County likely wouldn't experience nearly as much traffic to/from SNA, but could probably use SAN if SNA doesn't have the flight options they want and getting to LAX is too painful.

B737Captain1980 wrote:
I was at a political fundraiser in 2018 at Pelican Hill the week before the election where Dana Rhoerbacher was attempting to hang on(there was no chance of that with his Russia ties). Dana stood up at the house and told a row of semi billionaires that he wrote a letter to the CEO of Jetblue, informing him that a minor tweak to the design of the A320 would reduce its noise foot print tremendously. I nearly spit out my wine. Not one person in that room spoke up about Jetblue never having flown into SNA. I don't think anyone in that room even knew that fact. SNA has a tremendous amount of potential, but the multi billionaires that live under its departure path, wield tremendous amounts of power and influence over Newport Beach's city council and the county board of commissioners.


Are "semi billionaires" likely to use B6, though? If those types of people even do fly commercial, chances are they would gravitate to a "legacy" carrier with perks like lounges and robust schedules. The advent of Mint may have changed the appeal of B6 somewhat, but I think we can all agree as soon as B6 has the A220 they will finally add service to SNA. In the meantime, LGB being east of Long Beach makes that airport quite convenient for Orange County travelers; never mind the resumption of service to ONT and the success of Mint from nearby LAX and SAN...

B737Captain1980 wrote:
The vote for SNA to have a complete redesign was postponed 2 weeks ago due to COVID. They've been having meetings about it for years. If you think for one second plans haven't already been decided on how SNA will look for the next 40 years, you don't understand how deals are made behind closed doors. I know this for a fact, more than 2 billionaires that own FBO's at other airports and want access to SNA, are throwing money in every politicians direction to win the bid. They want to park their $50 million gulfstreams in a hangar, and they soon will. It costs $20,000 per month to park a G650 at ACI JET. My cessna costs $140 per month. Do the math. It's obvious where this is headed. The wealthy have the money, the politicians are more than willing to take it from them. Theres over about $1.5 Billion worth of aircraft just sitting on the ramp, in the elements, on a daily basis. Meanwhile, cessna's have 3 rows of shaded parking.

Whatever happens, construction probably won't begin until the end of the decade. After the vote finally occurs, the environmental studies must be completed, the lawsuits and counter lawsuits must be settled, THEN construction will begin. My guess is towards the end of the decade.


EYW and HHH have both recently exploded in popularity after runway extensions - and those airports have even shorter runways than SNA! I would not be surprised to see a very modest runway extension at SNA - so long as carriers like HA and WN could fly to Hawaii with a viable payload, that would probably be enough. Also, we have yet to see the impact of the A220 on SNA. Maybe B6 could even operate something like BOS/JFK-SNA-Hawaii with HA codeshare on this type from the current runway?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
QXfactor
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:20 pm

Re: 2020 SNA Slot Allocation released

Fri May 22, 2020 5:35 pm

LAXintl wrote:
The 2020 daily departure slot allocation and annual passenger capacity allocation for each carrier is as follows:

FedEx - .724 / 0
UPS - .615 / 0


These guys were awarded less-than-whole slots, which implies they only fly a few days a week. Would the "remaining" amount of those slots be available for someone to pick up? Could someone get the remaining .276 of FedEx's slot? No clue what they'd do with it, but just wondering why not just assign whole slots, rather than fractional ones.

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